Jazz

[vava]

You're into classic, I hardly see how you can like rap(I mean in term of musical value).

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There is musical, lyrical and rythmic value in some rap & hip-hop. But much of what you hear shoved down your ears on FM radio/ MTV is simply crap. Unfortunately, good recent recordings are not easy to find.

[Armat]

Brilliant! Thanks bud!

 

As for rap for Azat, I think it's up to him to find out what he likes and what not. Maybe he's already heard a lot of it and has concluded that he doesn't like any of it. Fair enough. Everyone has the right to their own taste. I enjoy"good" rap every now and again...

 

Btw Sip, I like "I wanna get high" by Cypress Hill :)

Here's Mobb Deep on Funk Master Flex's mix:

 

Shook Ones Pt. II.

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Only rabiz guys or mediocre "musicians" would copy a totally foreign genre of music to describe their pathetic lives. Sorry I am not buying it!

I hate bad imitations regardless of Arts! Those same guys just recently were singing Turkish tunes and some are now became African Americans. Give me a break! Call it relativism or whatever but I hate relativism anyway.

Mediocre is mediocre!Just being "new" is not enough!

Edited November 25, 2004 by Armat

[nairi]

Only rabiz guys or mediocre "musicians" would copy a totally foreign genre of music to describe their pathetic lives. Sorry I am not buying it!

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Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with that. I don't think these guys are good, but to generalize and say that anyone who borrows or "copies" from another culture is rabiz or mediocre is a little far-fetched imo. I'm sure you'd agree with me on this...

 

Edit: unless your emphasis is on "pathetic lives", i.e. people with pathetic lives shouldn't copy from others, then I guess, okay. Maybe I misunderstood what you said.

Edited November 25, 2004 by nairi

[Armat]

Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with that. I don't think these guys are good, but to generalize and say that anyone who borrows or "copies" from another culture is rabiz or mediocre is a little far-fetched imo. I'm sure you'd agree with me on this...

 

Edit: unless your emphasis is on "pathetic lives", i.e. people with pathetic lives shouldn't copy from others, then I guess, okay. Maybe I misunderstood what you said.

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I meant them.I am aware there are many great Armenian jazz Artists.I just don't like the idea that somehow everyone's fart is worth smelling becouse it is packaged in latest trend.

[nairi]

It makes good comedy Hey, I like rap in Armenian... These guys might not be the greatest artists, but they do show that it's possible to rap in any language around the world! Rap has no boundaries from that perspective. Maybe we just need to get used to it (seen some of the comments here).

[Armat]

Nairi why stop there (music) Why not wear baggy pants, pretend gagster jewelry, basketball shoes. Why not! Its fashion right? Talk about cultural assimilation to extreme. It goes to show how little some of us really value what is it being Armenian. I also dislike when I hear Lebanese or even Latin Artists trying to sound black. Give me a break! Do something original. Copycats are copycats. Do I need to procrastinate and find any logical reasons to rationalize what is essentially rabiz? By rabiz I mean mediocre! Edited November 25, 2004 by Armat

[Siamanto]

There's some really good hip-hop out there, but I don't the genre is upholding it's innovative roots. Like many of today's styles, it seems to be wallowing in a mire of 'standardized, cookie-cutter production' designed by the record company giants and their agents (companies like clearchannel) to make dollars more of a priority than music.

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Hard to disagree. Maybe, Rap - as a creative force - already belongs to the past! I still enjoy G-Unit, Lloyd Banks etc. but, I agree that not much is new!

As for Hip-Hop, in general, I regret that a talent like Aaliyah left us so young! It's a real shame . I really enjoy the unusual, almost arrhythmic, grooves of some her songs and her unconventional singing!

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

 

I hope Alicia Keys will soon become musically mature: she has potential!

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

 

Also, I would like to see more bands like N.E.R.D.

 

 

Rap - or Hip-Hop - comes in many forms. The following is a short list of Rap bands - excluding the very popular ones like Tupac, Ice Cube, Cypress Hill, Warren G etc - with somehow unique interesting style:

1- Digital Underground

(Funky, RnB, non-gangster crossover rap!)

2- Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy

(Socially aware lyrics. Non RnB/Funk samples. They had a hit single: TV, Drug of A Nation.)

3- Digable Planets

(Cool Hip Hop! Jazzy, but not Acid Jazz.)

4- The Roots

(The only all acoustic Hip Hop band, I know.)

5- Guru

(Acid Jazz)

6- Domino

(Many non RnB/Funk samples. Some Classical Music. Unusual grooves.)

7- Kid Frost

(Soul, Latin)

8- Tone Loc

9- Compton's Most Wanted

10-....

 

 

Samples!

 

OLD

1- The Way We Swing (Digital Underground)

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

 

2- Freaks Of the Industry (Digital Underground)

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

 

3- Sex Packets (Digital Underground) [bonus track! Hip-hop, not really Rap!!]

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

 

 

NEW

4- Wanna Get To Know You. (G-Unit)

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

 

5- I'm So Sorry. (G-Unit, Lloyd Banks.)

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

[Anileve]

Nairi why stop there (music) Why not wear baggy pants, pretend gagster jewelry, basketball shoes. Why not! Its fashion right? Talk about cultural assimilation to extreme. It goes to show how little some of us really value what is it being Armenian. I also dislike when I hear Lebanese or even Latin Artists trying to sound black. Give me a break! Do something original. Copycats are copycats. Do I need to procrastinate and find any logical reasons to rationalize what is essentially rabiz? By rabiz I mean mediocre!

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I agree with nairi. Art is the only medium through which people of various genders and ethnicities can connect, and through which everyone can find comfort and acquire freedom of expression and freedom of self.

 

Armat jan, I don’t recall you being so critical of Armenians in Jazz, in fact you are usually very well-disposed. If you think about it, Jazz originated in the South by none other than Africans. The only reason you object to rap is because in the mainstream it has gained a negative image. Unfortunatly mainstream music is easily accessible and is subjected to a greater exposure. Quality in general is not to be found in the “pop culture.” Now I am generally not a big fan of rap myself, but I am open to all forms of musical expression if it’s substantial, and I am certainly in favor of diversification.

[Armen]

I agree with Armat it is mediocre and it is not even funny because they mean it serious. Look at "Cascade" for example. The guys managed to produce realy high quality stuff using the same folklore sources. I think it is about HOW you do it, what is your metality and how much effort you put in it.

 

I think you can rap in Armenian but one must have a good feeling of language, rythm (specifically language rythm) and melody. E.g. I think if they use fewer words per unit of of melody (it was called "a lad" if I am not wrong) in Armenian it will produce a better result.

[Sasun]

Hard to disagree. Maybe, Rap  - as a creative force - already belongs to the past!  I still enjoy G-Unit, Lloyd Banks etc. but, I agree that not much is new!

As for Hip-Hop, in general, I regret that a talent like Aaliyah left us so young! It's a real shame . I really enjoy the unusual, almost arrhythmic, grooves of some her songs and her unconventional singing!

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

 

I hope Alicia Keys will soon become musically mature: she has potential!

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

 

Also, I would like to see more bands like N.E.R.D.

Rap - or Hip-Hop - comes in many forms. The following is a short list of Rap bands - excluding the very popular ones like Tupac, Ice Cube, Cypress Hill, Warren G etc - with somehow unique interesting style:

1- Digital Underground

(Funky, RnB, non-gangster crossover rap!)

2- Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy

  (Socially aware lyrics. Non RnB/Funk samples. They had a hit single: TV, Drug of A Nation.)

3- Digable Planets

(Cool Hip Hop! Jazzy, but not Acid Jazz.)

4- The Roots

(The only all acoustic Hip Hop band, I know.)

5- Guru

  (Acid Jazz)

6- Domino

   (Many non RnB/Funk samples. Some Classical Music. Unusual grooves.)

7- Kid Frost

(Soul, Latin)

8- Tone Loc

9- Compton's Most Wanted

10-....

Samples!

 

OLD

1- The Way We Swing (Digital Underground)

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

 

2- Freaks Of the Industry (Digital Underground)

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

 

3- Sex Packets  (Digital Underground) [bonus track! Hip-hop, not really Rap!!]

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

NEW

4- Wanna Get To Know You. (G-Unit)

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

 

5- I'm So Sorry. (G-Unit, Lloyd Banks.)

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

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I like your hands-on posts Siamanto (rather than theoretical discussion of music). I will check the links. Not that pretend to have any knowledge of rap or hip-hop names but almost all of the names that you are mentioning are unfamiliar to me. Given the involuntary learning of some pop names and seeing that they don't coincide with the names you are mentioning I am left to guess that there really is another side of rap or hip-hop.

By the way, for some reason I much prefere white rap than black rap. For example Eminem is a lot more likeable for me than any black name I heard. Many years ago I was very very impressed by M.C. Hammer (In fact I wouldn't mind getting a CD and listening even now). But I do dislike gangster types in rap. I maybe too superficial in judging in this manner but these guys really have a gangster attitude that sometimes seems repalsive and some other times childish. I just wonder where music and where "gangsterism" are, seem quite apart.

Edited November 28, 2004 by Sasun

[Siamanto]

I like your hands-on posts Siamanto (rather than theoretical discussion of music). I will check the links.

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Thanks!

 

 

Not that pretend to have any knowledge of rap or hip-hop names but almost all of the names that you are mentioning are unfamiliar to me. Given the involuntary learning of some pop names and seeing that they don't coincide with the names you are mentioning I am left to guess that there really is another side of rap or hip-hop.

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Yes! That is why I have listed those who are less popular, yet talented. None would qualify as "gangster rap," with the possible exception of "Compton's Most Wanted." I would rather call them "Hood Rap???" The lyrics are socially aware.

 

 

By the way, for some reason I much prefere white rap than black rap. For example Eminem is a lot more likeable for me than any black name I heard. Many years ago I was very very impressed by M.C. Hammer (In fact I wouldn't mind getting a CD and listening even now). But I do dislike gangster types in rap. I maybe too superficial in judging in this manner but these guys really have a gangster attitude that sometimes seems repalsive and some other times childish. I just wonder where music and where "gangsterism" are, seem quite apart.

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Do you prefer white rappers because of

1- The Music and samples?

2- The rhythmic section and groves i.e. RnB/Funk vs Rock, Jazz or other?

3- The lyrics?

4- The rapping style? (There's a difference! At least, that's how I perceive it!)

5- The voice? (Blacks and Whites have a different "texture" i.e. spectral range/harmonics.)

6- ...

 

Personally, I prefer black rappers because of 1,2,4 & 5. Of course, some "color" i.e. black/latino rappers write very intelligent lyrics such as Michael Franti of Disposable Heoes of Hiphoprisy, Kid Frost and others.

In any case, if your musical background is more Rock than "Black" and you "tolerate" Free Jazz, Rock, Industrial Music and bands like Art of Noise then you should start whith Disposable Heroes.

Below is the lyrics of "TV, The Drug of The Nation."

 

Music:

http://www.mp3.com/The-Disposable-Heroes-o...73/summary.html

 

Lyrics:

http://www.seeklyrics.com/album/Disposable...est-Luxury.html

 

Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy - Television, The Drug Of The Nation Lyrics

 

One nation

under God

has turned into

one nation under the influence

of one drug

[chorus:]

Television, the drug of the Nation

Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

(2x)

T.V., it

satellite links

our United States of Unconsciousness

Apathetic therapeutic and extremely addictive

The methadone metronome pumping out

150 channels 24 hours a day

you can flip through all of them

and still there's nothing worth watching

T.V. is the reason why less than 10 per cent of our

Nation reads books daily

Why most people think Central Amerika

means Kansas

Socialism means unamerican

and Apartheid is a new headache remedy

absorbed in it's world it's so hard to find us

It shapes our mind the most

maybe the mother of our Nation

should remind us

that we're sitting too close to...

[Chorus:]

Television, the drug of the Nation

Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

(2x)

T.V. is

the stomping ground for political candidates

Where bears in the woods

are chased by Grecian Formula'd

bald eagles

T.V. is mechanized politic's

remote control over the masses

co-sponsored by environmentally safe gases

watch for the PBS special

It's the perpetuation of the two party system

where image takes precedence over wisdom

Where sound bite politics are served to

the fastfood culture

Where straight teeth in your mouth

are more important than the words

that come out of it

Race baiting is the way to get selected

Willie Horton or

Will he not get elected on...

[Chorus:]

Television, the drug of the Nation

Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

(2x)

T.V., is it the reflector or the director ?

Does it imitate us

or do we imitate it

 

because a child watches 1500 murders before he's

twelve years old and we wonder why we've created

a Jason generation that learns to laugh

rather than to abhor the horror

T.V. is the place where

armchair generals and quarterbacks can

experience first hand

the excitement of warfare

as the theme song is sung in the background

Sugar sweet sitcoms

that leave us with a bad actor taste while

pop stars metamorphosize into soda pop stars

You saw the video

You heard the soundtrack

Well now go buy the soft drink

Well, the onla cola that I support

would be a union C.O.L.A.(Cost Of Living Allowance)

On television

[Chorus:]

Television, the drug of the Nation

Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

(2x)

Back again, 'New and improved'

We return to our irregularly programmed schedule

hidden cleverly between heavy breasted

beer and car commercials

CNNESPNABCTNT but mostly B.S.

Where oxymoronic language like

'virtually spotless', 'fresh frozen'

'light yet filling' and 'military intelligence'

have become standard

T.V. is the place where phrases are redefined

like 'recession' to 'necessary downturn'

'Crude oil' on a beach to 'mousse'

'Civilian death' to 'collateral damages'

and being killed by your own Army

is now called 'friendly fire'

T.V. is the place where the pursuit

of happiness has become the pursuit of

trivia

Where toothpaste and cars have become

sex objects

Where imagination is sucked out of children

by a cathode ray nipple

T.V. is the only wet nurse

that would create a cripple

[Chorus:]

Television, the drug of the Nation

Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

[Sasun]

Siamanto, thanks for your attentive reply.

 

Do you prefer white rappers because of

1- The Music and samples?

2- The rhythmic section and groves i.e. RnB/Funk vs Rock, Jazz or other?

3- The lyrics?

4- The rapping style? (There's a difference! At least, that's how I perceive it!)

5- The voice? (Blacks and Whites have a different "texture" i.e. spectral range/harmonics.)

6- ...

 

I was thinking about it, but can't find the answer. The only answer I could give is that I like white rap because it is white As to what "white" means in rap, I just don't know how to explain.

 

Personally, I prefer black rappers because of 1,2,4 & 5. Of course, some "color" i.e. black/latino rappers write very intelligent lyrics such as Michael Franti of Disposable Heoes of Hiphoprisy, Kid Frost and others.

In any case, if your musical background is more Rock than "Black" and you "tolerate" Free Jazz, Rock, Industrial Music and bands like Art of Noise then you should start whith Disposable Heroes.

Below is the lyrics of "TV, The Drug of  The Nation."

 

Actually my musical bacground is very much Rock as well as Classical music. Although Rock has African origins it has become extremely "white" (at least to my ears) not to remind of its origins. So that maybe a reason.

But I do love old black Jazz, that's something quite different.

[Sasun]

1- The Way We Swing (Digital Underground)

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

 

2- Freaks Of the Industry (Digital Underground)

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

 

5- I'm So Sorry. (G-Unit, Lloyd Banks.)

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver....ID%3D1373221808

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I liked these and Alicia Keys and Aaliyah but not as much the others. I could not listen to Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy in the link, is it only available for purchase?

[Anileve]

Anyone heard "Flamenco Sketches" by Miles?

[Anileve]

I'll take that silence as a "Negative." Well for Jazz aficionados it's a must!

[Azat]

Anyone heard "Flamenco Sketches" by Miles?

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Eve is that the Album name or song title? I do not think I have.

 

BTW: I just got my Nina Simone CD. WOW

[Anileve]

BTW: I just got my Nina Simone CD.  WOW

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WHAT???????????????????????? YOU'RE KIDDING RIGHT?

Edited December 15, 2004 by Anileve

[Azat]

WHAT???????????????????????? YOU'RE KIDDING RIGHT?

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no. and asked Lusi to get me another for xmas

[Anileve]

no.  and asked Lusi to get me another for xmas

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Dude, this is absolutely not fair. Which one did you get?

[Azat]

Dude, this is absolutely not fair. Which one did you get?

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why kiddo? you want one too?

 

I got The essential Nina simone and asked Lus today to order The Anthology for me for xmas I love the song Trouble in mind.

 

Thanks for turning me on to her. did not even know here until couple of weeks ago.

[Anileve]

why kiddo?  you want one too?

 

I got The essential Nina simone and asked Lus today to order The Anthology for me for xmas   I love the song Trouble in mind. 

 

Thanks for turning me on to her.  did not even know here until couple of weeks ago.

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Well in that case, you will have an instant Nina Simone collection by the end of this year. This has to be the weirdest coincidence by far.

 

And yes, Nina is absolutely spectacular. She is still my favorite Blues singer, right above Ella.

[Azat]

And yes, Nina is absolutely spectacular. She is still my favorite Blues singer, right above Ella.

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Above Ella? No. Its just 1:30 for you and you dont know what you are saying.

 

I LOVE ELLA

Edited December 15, 2004 by Azat

[Anileve]

Above Ella?  No.  Its just 1:30 for you and you dont know what you are saying.

 

I LOVE ELLA

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That's what I used to think, but trust me...Nina grows on you like a grapevine, just give it sometime. I would suggest some good vino and one of the CDs on a very high volume. But it must be one special CD, otherwise it won't work. Then come back and tell me that you don't agree.

[Azat]

I am always up for a challenge that involves wine.

[Azat]

Ponch, I love "Don't Explain"