ExtraHye Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Do you agree or disagree, and why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 I think I agree. People should have the choice to do whatever they want with their life. And if they are not in a position to decide, whatever is good for the patient (i.e. less painful) should be done, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Spend a few years living with an aging loved with a degenerative mental or neuromuscular disease, and it will change your outlook. I used to think that euthanasia was absolutely out of the question - i no longer feel that way. But I DO believe that this is VERY touchy - you just can't go putting people to sleep once they've outlived their 'usefulness'. People should only be euthanised under the rarest of circumstances... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 (edited) I agree with vava. My friend died a while back, not by assisted suicide, but if you could see the amount of pain he had to go through, it might have given you a different perspective on this issue. Call me a coward or whatever, but if I have to go through that much pain, I would rather be helped to die. Edited December 11, 2003 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armo77 Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 I couldn't say.. I have not personally been sick to the point were I felt like dying. I feel suicides are for cowards... However, I know human beings are not ment to live on machines.. Our time will come for all of us and we should accept it. If we are sick to the point where we can not breath, walk, eat, use the restroom on our own.. That is no life to live. Id rather die.. That is if there is NO chance of recover. But religiously, God teaches us to have patience and faith. Killing yourself is not patience nor is it faith in God to heal you. You never know, you could wake up one day and start to improve.. Or you could even die naturally without you taking the risk of taking your own life. Maybe it is worth taking the chance of fighting for your life until the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Armo77, I respect your views, but I disagree with the religious view of it.. Morality is not always determined by religion.. In fact, religion is as irrelevant to morality as automobiles are.. Fighting for life is not always an issue of staying alive. It comes with a lot of baggage, pain being one of them. And as much as we might say "I understand your pain", we really don't, and can't. The extent of pain is incomprehensible to those who are not experiencing it. Maybe it's worth taking the chance to fight for your life, maybe the ill person would've been healed, miraculously or otherwise, but that maybe is too easy to say, and hard to apply on the patient. It's just too hard. Not only on the patient, but on his/her family and friends.. Sometimes we have to let go. Sometimes that's the only way we can go on living, by letting go of life and all the pain that comes with it.. I don't know.. Some people say, what if there's something worse beyond death. Well, I don't know what comes after death, and whether or not it's worse, or if there's ANYTHING at all, and I'm not a believer in those things, but I believe that we all should have a choice in governing our lives. If my friend had not died any sooner and needed euthanasia, and if that Christian fundamentalist came to tell me that we were going to hell because we were killing a life that was given to us by God, I would've told him/her to keep his/her religious beliefs off my body. As long as there is no proof that God really exists, I don't care what your beliefs are, as long as you're not hurling it in my face and trying to control my behaviour and future that have nothing to do with your own life. And even if there were a God and he/she had said that it was wrong, well, sometimes, just sometimes you need to do what you think is right and just, because I don't think it was just for my friend to have gone through all that he did (even if it were God's doing), while people who have done worse things are free of disease and happy too.. Sometimes you gotta take hold of the reigns of fate, and turn it into free will. That's what we have brains and feelings for. And that's my take on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armo77 Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 when have you ever agreed with anything I said.. I know Religion does not play a role in this to many people.. THATS WHY I PUT both scientific AND religious view of it. P.S. Suicide is never accepted in the Christian religion no matter for what reason it is.. Not saying I 100% believe it or I am a religious fanatic.. Just giving both sides of the story. sorry but they are my views Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 when have you ever agreed with anything I said.. I know Religion does not play a role in this to many people.. THATS WHY I PUT both scientific AND religious view of it. P.S. Suicide is never accepted in the Christian religion no matter for what reason it is.. Not saying I 100% believe it or I am a religious fanatic.. Just giving both sides of the story. sorry but they are my views oh god... Armo, please don't start with the "when have you ever agreed with anything I said" game, cos I ain't playing that. ok? I am not arguing with you. I am simply saying that I don't agree with the religious perspective.. P.S. Suicide is never accepted in the Christian religion no matter for what reason it is.. could be, but government/civil rights and religion should be separate. Like I said, I don't want anyone's personal/religious beliefs to touch my body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armo77 Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 I have my views.. You acually think I give a damn what you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 I have my views.. You acually think I give a damn what you think? I'm glad you do. No, I don't think you give a damn about what I think. But the point is, we're having an exchange of opinions, so either play along, or leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armo77 Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 I'm glad you do. No, I don't think you give a damn about what I think. But the point is, we're having an exchange of opinions, so either play along, or leave. oh telling me to leave the site now???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 oh telling me to leave the site now???? No, but I'm telling you to stop this childish game, because it's nothing but a pain in the ***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armo77 Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 what childish game.. you jump all over me because of my first post.. your the baby here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Where did I attack you??? I said: Armo77, I respect your views, but I disagree with the religious view of it.. Morality is not always determined by religion.. In fact, religion is as irrelevant to morality as automobiles are.. If you call disagreement an attack, then I have no further comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Ok guys, I hate to do this, but please cool down. This is just a debate, not a matter of life and death Speaking of life and death, as a believer I am strongly opposed to any sort of suicide (assited or non-assited). My opinion is that everything is there for a reason, so if you are terminally ill and suffering that is NOT a mistake. So don't try to run away from your karma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel4hope Posted December 12, 2003 Report Share Posted December 12, 2003 totally agreed sasun jan but there are circumstances in which innocent little 2 or 3 year olds are terminally ill--not that i wold agree with assisted suicide here-but doesnt mean that this unexperienced and vulnerable child had done something in order to deserve such pain--the world doesnt always work the way you expect it---its just that in search for answers to life we as human beings go around and try to find what best suites are beliefs and experiences we need to accept that there are such things as cooincidences and that thingsmay happen for a resaon and may also not depends on how you look at it- you cant always have an explanation for everything in life some things are just there.......and need to be accepetd....i dunno life is just weird-thats my take on it--just when you think you got the hang of everything--the moon flips over the stars and the sun goes in rettrograde---as it seems to me sometimes metaphorically speaking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted December 12, 2003 Report Share Posted December 12, 2003 There was a program on nightline couple of days ago THE GOOD DEATH This woman who diagnosed with pancreatic cancer which spread to her liver, doctors were all said she wouldn’t live for long, after painful and agonizing chemotherapy she decided to die a GOOD DEATH what ever time she had left she would prefer to spend with her loved once, catch up with friends to say good bye, and amazingly she was very much in comfort with her decision rather live a few months more with chemo and pain. I was wondering if that can consider being a suicide I really admired her approach and how she was so in comfort with her decision. Anybody else saw this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted December 12, 2003 Report Share Posted December 12, 2003 If it was not for the VILE medical, food and chemical industries people would be living to an average of 120 years and dying natural peaceful deaths. Just read about the Hunza people of northern Pakistan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph parikian Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 (edited) Hear is the site that explains why the Hunza people live longer http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/spece...1600447806.html Edited December 13, 2003 by joseph parikian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 I think people are mixing two different thing, "living to die" and killing. Both are different. Someone that is in a comma, unpluging him/her is different than injecting a substance to kill him/her. I agree with the first but morally disagree with the second. I know that there is many way to see that an we can end up saying that finally they are the same, but this is a cases by cases problem. If you know you will die, you can just stop taking your medications and taking pain relievers, this is "living to die" this is different then taking a medication, an outside substance to kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Edward - I didn't see the program but am very familiar with issue - not from any personal expereince per se - but have thought about thhis issue for a while - have been a supporter of this type of "good death" for a long time - and have even emt and discussed this with the president of the Hemlock society - a support and advocacy group for this sort of thing. Frankly - to me - anyone who opposed people beig a ble to choose a dignified death - when they are terminal and/or in extreme extreme incurable pain or suffereing so - wel that is hat is criminal. We all die eventually. It is absurd - IMO - for anyone to oppose people in this condition taking their own life (or getting assitance for such). First no one takes this sort of thing lightly. Secondly what is the purpose of living in pain fo what? O r extending ones life when it is pretty much a foregone conclusion...for what? Here is oppurtiunity to go out right - with love and feeling good about your decisoin - achieving closure -all of it. To me this is really beautiful. And I think anyone who opposes such is just clueless about wht these people and their loved ones are goign through. Is ist the answer for everyone? no. But for those who have thought it through and wish it - well its none of your business to deny them - or to jusdge them. And if you say - well my book says its bad - not allowed etc...well thats just another argument for the uselessness fo being dogmatic concerning said book...IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 (edited) Thoth, do you support suicide on the basis of freedom? If someone healthy would want to kill himself, would you support his action? Edited December 19, 2003 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Yes Domino I would - I would support the right for someone to make that decision (and it not be a criminal act). I think anyone who arbitraily wishes to do this should be examined however (for mental isssues). I see your point her - but this is a subset of the issue IMO. I think anyone who has ever witnessed the type of sufering that we are talking about (and hardship for loved ones) that folks who pursue assisted suicide endure etc - well I don't think anyone who has a true understanding of this - could really oppose it...(though I am not saying that there aren't "maral" issues...like wwhat if there were a cure in the future, or could your mind be too adled/drugged to make such a decision etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Domino, if someone is healthy, why in the world would one want to commit suicide? I think freedom has no significance what’s so ever if inavadable is going to happen. For that person in the end of the rope, if I were the one, I hardly would give a damn where the moral starts or ends. Like Thoth said, it is a personal issue and one should decide her/his fate, in case one cant, then I would say its next to kin who has the decision to make, the issue is very simple yet we can make it very complicated for the sake of an moral stand? Would you tell me what’s so moral about one's suffering and agony of the loved ones? I fail to see the logic. Lets for the sake of an argument, leave all the religious convictions, holly scriptures out of this, for the one who is suffering, why, why live like that. Maybe I’m not seeing what you see. By the way, are you familiar by any chance with that woman in Florida who is in comma for 14 years? They voted (Florida legislation) to keep her “alive” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Edward, the reason I asked this, is that Thoth shut freedom here and there without measuring the extend of what he advance by claiming that anyone that say the opposit of what he say have no clue. This is not about morality, like I said previously there is a distinction that one must make between letting the person live to die, or injection or using an exterior thing to kill him. Since Thoth claimed that he would support the decision of a healthy person to kill himself, he just has provided an anarchist point of view that close the discussion right from its starting point. Ah and about the woman in a comma, this is totally a different issue, because if you unplug her, she will die, this is not the same thing as injecting a subsrance or using something exterior to put an end on her life. BTW: Did I talk about religion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.