Khazar Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Arpa, this one's for you... I think I wrote this somewhere else, but my name: I was reading about the Khazar kingdom when I had to pick a name for this forum, so there you go - coincidence. My academic interests are ethno-politics of the Caucasus (North and South), and that's why I tend to share a disproportionate amount of info from this region! I plan to do my dissertation on Caucasian ethnic alliances within the Russian Federation, so I intend to include all those people I keep talking about (including Armenians). But enough about me! Now on to the Khazars! I agree with you that a lot of the information available about them seems to be anecdotal/mythological. The kingdom itself was largely known for its conversion to Judaism, but a lot of the information sources available seem to be sponsored and written almost exclusively by Jewish organizations, often badly, and with too many religious-political overtones for my taste. One thing that seems to be sure: it was a multi-ethnic, and up to the conversion, multi-religious (Christian and Muslim). I read somewhere that either during the conversion to Judaism or following the break-up of the kingdom, the Khazar Muslims moved to neighboring Muslim areas and the Khazar Christians moved south-west to the Byzantine Empire to areas populated by friendly co-religionists, the Armenians and the Greeks, and basically made themselves at home. Khazars connection to the present: I know for sure that the Kumyks of Dagestan consider themselves to be descendents of the Khazars. Need to check some reliable sources about the whole subject, I really haven't read nearly enough to get an idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggyWiggy Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 So what I am understanding is...you are a jew...right? Khazar has nothing to do with Armenia... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Thank you Khazar, very informative.I must confess, when I asked you to write about yourself and your choice of the nickname I had already searched the internet about the Khazars, besides, I knew a little bit already. There are many sites, even one that quotes a NYT article that debunks many who claim to have Khazar, i.e Jewish ancestry to emigrate to the US, and it cocludes that most don't have even a drop of Jewish blood, understandably.Most other sites go as far as to claim that the Khazaras were descended from Noah. The biggest BS as there was no Noah. Others are reminiscent of the recently discovered Turko-Jewish love affair. Are the Indonesians, the largest Muslim nation Arabs, as they profess to the religion invented by the Arabs? Are the Khazars really Jewish simply beacuse some adopted the Judaic religion? Are the Falashes of Ethiopa Jewish in the strict sense? Here is one of them;http://www.imninalu.net/Khazars.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggyWiggy Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Yes...Yes they are... Religion in that Time said WHO YOU WERE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Some Azeris claim that their nation is descendents of Khazars. Any truth in that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 (edited) Some Azeris claim that their nation is descendents of Khazars. Any truth in that?If you want me to start out what the Azeris claim they are the descendant of, you will end up with various answers. Edited December 5, 2003 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggyWiggy Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Azeris are descendants of..Azeris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khazar Posted December 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 most don't have even a drop of Jewish blood, understandably.Most other sites go as far as to claim that the Khazaras were descended from Noah. The biggest BS as there was no Noah. Others are reminiscent of the recently discovered Turko-Jewish love affair. Are the Indonesians, the largest Muslim nation Arabs, as they profess to the religion invented by the Arabs? Are the Khazars really Jewish simply beacuse some adopted the Judaic religion? Are the Falashes of Ethiopa Jewish in the strict sense? As far as I know, the ethnic make-up of the Khazar people was mixed: indigenous North-East Caucasians and various Turkic tribes who had made that area their home already for centuries. They weren't 'Jews' in the ethnic sense. As for, maybe a connection to the Mountain Jews (Tat speaking) of Dagestan, or the Jews of Azerbaijan, I don't know, but it would be interesting to find out. As for Azerbaijanis, I don't know about any connection they might have, besides the obvious geographical one??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen_Vahan Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Khazar, That Khazarian kings were jews is also documented by Gumilev which implies not all the sources are of jewish origin. Moreover, you can find a lot about their kingdom and its collapse reading about the formation of Rus' (the times of "velikie knyaz'ya"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Knight Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Over 90% of all jews living today are the descendants of Khazars(Ashkhenazim)...the rest are the Sephardim, Yemenites etc.Their ethnic makeup was mostly Turko/Mongol mixed with North Caucasians, Slavs and some Vikings.After the Rus destroyed the Jewish Kingdom of Khazaria they migrated further to Western Europe from the Caucasus and Ukraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Friend Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Over 90% of all jews living today are the descendants of Khazars(Ashkhenazim)...the rest are the Sephardim, Yemenites etc.Their ethnic makeup was mostly Turko/Mongol mixed with North Caucasians, Slavs and some Vikings.After the Rus destroyed the Jewish Kingdom of Khazaria they migrated further to Western Europe from the Caucasus and Ukraine. I am Ashkhenasim, however I don't know a word of what you are all saying ,as New Joisey is my home! I only know Sapranos, Frank Sanatra, and Bon Jovi! If my great grandparents did not immigrate from Russian-Pole{Warsaw} when they did before the turn of last century..my whole family tree would have gone up like smoke in the ovens. Thank God for boats, the Statue of liberty, and New York New York!P.S. Ashkhenasim Jews generally look down on Sephardic Jews....go figure! I know American Jews in Myrtle Beach who did not want Sephardic Jews from Mexico City to go to the town Synagogue{which had only about 25 families anyway back in the early 70s}..so the Sephardics had to buy a small house and convert it into their own place to worship..they were only there in summer months to sell water goods for the beach.,,go figure again!..Guess all Jews don't stick together after all..eh?????.. JF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Knight Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Over 90% of all jews living today are the descendants of Khazars(Ashkhenazim)...the rest are the Sephardim, Yemenites etc.Their ethnic makeup was mostly Turko/Mongol mixed with North Caucasians, Slavs and some Vikings.After the Rus destroyed the Jewish Kingdom of Khazaria they migrated further to Western Europe from the Caucasus and Ukraine.I am Ashkhenasim, however I don't know a word of what you are all saying ,as New Joisey is my home! I only know Sapranos, Frank Sanatra, and Bon Jovi! If my great grandparents did not immigrate from Russian-Pole{Warsaw} when they did before the turn of last century..my whole family tree would have gone up like smoke in the ovens. Thank God for boats, the Statue of liberty, and New York New York!P.S. Ashkhenasim Jews generally look down on Sephardic Jews....go figure! I know American Jews in Myrtle Beach who did not want Sephardic Jews from Mexico City to go to the town Synagogue{which had only about 25 families anyway back in the early 70s}..so the Sephardics had to buy a small house and convert it into their own place to worship..they were only there in summer months to sell water goods for the beach.,,go figure again!..Guess all Jews don't stick together after all..eh?????.. JF Your ancestors were Mongol-Turkic Khazars+Europeans Most Ashkenazim identify themselves as Europeans anyway so the Khazar link is as evident as the turkic link in modern Bulgarians.I know what you mean about the Hebrew/Israelite/Sephardic minorities.My Russian-Polish Jewish friends used to gang up on Morrocan jews and beat them up calling them all kinds of derogotary words...like semitic freaks, sandniggers etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward demian Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 I read an interesting history book written by a rabi about judaic hystory. he said that the ashkenatzi jews were jews taken into captivity by the babilonians, and resettled in the Armenian province of Ashkenavar. I believe that. The tzi part of their name seems to be Armenian. I wonder why he would make that up if it wasn't true. The book, written about 30 yars ago was for a Jewish readership.As far as the Azerbaijianis are concerned, they are Mongols. more specifically Tatar. The Tatars are the more bacward and primitive of the allready backward Mongols. Among the Turks, beig called a Tatar is an insult. Same as the Dadjig appelation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 Armenians here getting into the roots of the Jews, while living like "donkeys with blinders on"about the mixed origins of the Armenians. Living in a never-never land about their own origins. Laughingly professing to be completely European in origin. Focusing on Jews Turkic origins while conveniently ignoring their own Hebrew, Assyrian, Mongol and Pushtun genetic elements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Knight Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 Armenians here getting into the roots of the Jews, while living like "donkeys with blinders on"about the mixed origins of the Armenians. Living in a never-never land about their own origins. Laughingly professing to be completely European in origin. Focusing on Jews Turkic origins while conveniently ignoring their own Hebrew, Assyrian, Mongol and Pushtun genetic elements. You're insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 Teuton, That is what they said about Galileo when he claimed that the world was not flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Knight Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 Teuton, That is what they said about Galileo when he claimed that the world was not flat. True, the difference is he was right.Your allegations have been refuted numerous times on this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 Refuted, my A$$. You always go back to shopworn treatises. Jusr look around yourself at ANY Armenian affair. You will see this for yourself. Or are you blinded by your beliefs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Knight Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 Refuted, my A$$. You always go back to shopworn treatises. Jusr look around yourself at ANY Armenian affair. You will see this for yourself. Or are you blinded by your beliefs? I was at a recent AGBU banquet in Toronto celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Armenian Church.Didn't see any Pashtuns, Mongols or Middle Easterners Not one. Your psychosis and mongrelized background is your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Armenians here getting into the roots of the Jews, while living like "donkeys with blinders on"about the mixed origins of the Armenians. Living in a never-never land about their own origins. Laughingly professing to be completely European in origin. Focusing on Jews Turkic origins while conveniently ignoring their own Hebrew, Assyrian, Mongol and Pushtun genetic elements. Observing your posts for a wile and above statement had convinced me! I became to believe you are a perfect specimen for your own claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TashnagZinvor Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Khazars were a Turkic tribe that later adopted the Jewish Religion. Of coarse the early European element in Caucasia was most likely absorbed into there culture. The Azeris on the other hand are an admixture of Mongoloid/Turkic, and Persian/Irano-Afghans, It is most evident in there language. Since the areas were inhabited by indo european Medians thoulsands of years ago (Persians) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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