Arpa Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 (edited) "Baghdadlian" NOT!!! Baghdadlian is not Armenian(surname). Neither is Sivaslian etc. IAN (alone, inherently just by itself)does not an Armenian name make. Baghdad is not an Armenian city and the L between the last D and I is a Turkish designation of geographical origin. Neither a name like Yerevan-L-ian would be Armenian strictly speaking. The Armenian counterpart to the Turkish L is -tsi. A name like Yerevants(ian) would be a purely Armenian surname. Another letter that makes Armenian surnames Turkish is the J like in Demir-J-ian. The Persians use that suffix as well to mean a practitioner of a certain trade. One of the funniest Armenian surnames I came across is Dervoghormia-j-ian (actual). Guess why and by whom were they named so. When I said -IAN does not an Armenian make it, besides the above reason it is a common European suffix bur mostly used to designate geographical origin. An Italian is one from or of Italy, Hungarian etc. It is of Latin origin and it was not really that widespread before the 19th century even if it goes back to at leats the 5th c. (Mamikonian). Armenians, that is those who had surnames, were known by their place of origin, like Khorenatsi, Mashtots, or by their patronymic (fathers') names like Atonts, Bakunts, Karabents, Srvantstiants, meaning "from the family of". Many of the location surnames ans trade surnames of the Armenians were not labeld by Turks but by Turkish speaking Armenians There may be a hint heres to the above challenge). As to the Persian surnames ending in I to denote geography Arabs use that too, whoever borrowed fro whom, consider such names as Saudi, Misri, Halabi, Amerikani etc. Edited January 25, 2004 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Arpa, I remember you saying something about the -i (belonging to) and -an (plurality). But I can't find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Arpa, I remember you saying something about the -i (belonging to) and -an (plurality). But I can't find it. I can't find it either. I may have said it, but I can only think of one instance where the -an may indicate plural as in "talib-an". Where as "talib" means aspirant/student the -an ending makes it plural. The more common pluralizing suffix in Arabic is -oun". You may be referring to where I wrote about the pluralizing ending in Arabic in connection to Mamikonian, or better yet Mamik-oun-ian ( It comes close to a naughty expression in Armenian). I may have suggested that "Mamikonian" may have derived from the Arabic/Aramaic "mamLikoun" (note the L that may have been lost), otherwise it would mean (posssessed/conquered), perhaps based on the fact that Tigran II brought back many conquered peoples with him, one of which may have been the dynasty of the "mamLikoun-ians". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armo77 Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 NOT!!! Baghdadlian is not Armenian(surname). So Paul Baghdadlian is not Armenian but a wanna-be or an imposter? http://homenetmenchicago.org/paul.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 I may have suggested that "Mamikonian" may have derived from the Arabic/Aramaic "mamLikoun" (note the L that may have been lost), otherwise it would mean (posssessed/conquered), perhaps based on the fact that Tigran II brought back many conquered peoples with him, one of which may have been the dynasty of the "mamLikoun-ians". Mamlikoun as in the Egyptian Mameluks? Would make sense, but does that assimilated Chinese/Mongolian dynasty date as far back as that and was Arabic much the same then as we know it today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 So Paul Baghdadlian is not Armenian but a wanna-be or an imposter? Not in my book. I don't even know him. I don't want to know. Does he sing in the production of Anush Opera or Srshak II Opera? If you read my post again I did indicate that "baghdadLian" is not an Armenian SURNAME He can sing all the Turkish/Arabic/Spanish songs he wants but he will not get in my front door, or the back door. Has he even considered to change his name to Pavghos Pavliikian? He can go back to his favorite city, Baghdad. They are shooting/bombing Armenian (women) there, remember?. If he had a scintilla of (Armenian) decency he would not flaunt a Turkish Arabic name like BAGHDADLI With aname like that I wouldn't listen to him even if he was singing the Messiah or the Armenian Patarak. Maybe I would listen if his name was Mehmet Baghdadlioglu. No deception there. Whatever happened to that Katirji-oglu clown of a singer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armo77 Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 (edited) No offence.. But I think there is more holes in these theories than Swiss Cheese.. You mentioned that "ian" means the origin of someone. You say "Italian" is someone from Italy. This is ONLY true for the English language.. The "Italian" that you mention is truely "Italiano". We are called "Armenian" but in Armenian language not sure if you know is "Hyestantsi". My point is "ian" refferers to orgin only in the English language.. I think the similarity between the English "ian" and the Armenian "ian" in last names (in most cases) is a coincidence. And Arpa, I not sure if you know.. But I know plenty of Armenians that have the last name Baghdadlian.. Not just Paul Baghdadlian. And Paul Baghdadlian is a famous Armenian singer. He is Armenian. Edited January 25, 2004 by Armo77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Mamlikoun as in the Egyptian Mameluks? Would make sense, but does that assimilated Chinese/Mongolian dynasty date as far back as that and was Arabic much the same then as we know it today? I think we did establish that the Mamikonians did not come from China or Mongolia. If one reads Khorenatsi carefully he does say that they are from Jenastan, or Jenats Ashkharh that is placed somewhere in Modern Kashmir. It is easy to interpret Jenastan as Chinastan or Chinats Ashkharh, where all that confusion comes from. As to Arabic being that old, yes Arabic is older than most languages, however, remember that Tigran invaded lands where Aramaic was the Lingua Franka, and that modern Arabic is more than 50% Aramaic/Assyrian. Melik that we use to mean prince is from the Arabic "malek" that literally means "owner/king/lord" based on the root of "mulk" that means possessions/assets, and hence "mamluk"=conquered/pssessed/owned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyebruin Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 wow!! today i found out that george bush--the prez!! is related to colin powell... i guess we ALL are more similar than we would like to think!!...same goes with all other nationalities; what's strange though is that ever since i can remember back in the early grammar school days we've been taught that we are armenian and no mention of 'mixing' with neighbors including persians or turks...etc. were mentioned!!--- i guess that would have been blasphemy if not a scandal!!--- only later as i grew up i found out that--my God!! armenians and persians have eloped in the past and still do!! ~~~but of course when it comes to politics and foregin affairs, humanitarianism and doing WHAT'S RIGHT AND JUST always disappear, and the cowards bury their ugly heads in the sand... and it is always about $$$ <_< <_< <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 So Paul Baghdadlian is not Armenian but a wanna-be or an imposter? http://homenetmenchicago.org/paul.jpg He looks like he is a pillow biter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 (edited) wow!! today i found out that george bush--the prez!! is related to colin powell... i guess we ALL are more similar than we would like to think!!...same goes with all other nationalities; what's strange though is that ever since i can remember back in the early grammar school days we've been taught that we are armenian and no mention of 'mixing' with neighbors including persians or turks...etc. were mentioned!!--- i guess that would have been blasphemy if not a scandal!!--- only later as i grew up i found out that--my God!! armenians and persians have eloped in the past and still do!! ~~~but of course when it comes to politics and foregin affairs, humanitarianism and doing WHAT'S RIGHT AND JUST always disappear, and the cowards bury their ugly heads in the sand... and it is always about $$$ <_< <_< <_< No one is 'pure' since everyone at some point mixed. Thank God my Caucasoid genes outweigh the Asiatic ones, or else I'd look like a no neck with short legs Aram Asatryan, who I could swear was a Mongel missing a scimitar if it wasn't for his name. With that said, this doesn't diminish the concept of "race" as much as egalitarians like to believe. Edited January 26, 2004 by Anonymouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armo77 Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 He looks like he is a pillow biter. I am suprised no one ever heard of Paul Baghdadlian.. This is an Armenian site right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel4hope Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 ive heard of him..i have i have the singer riight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armo77 Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Yeah, he is a pretty good singer.. Been around for a really long time to. One of his songs Paul Baghdadlian (Real Audio) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel4hope Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 btw im utterly confused...what's a pillow biter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armo77 Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 (edited) btw im utterly confused...what's a pillow biter? I guess someone who chews on their pillow at night.. Not quit a "bed wetter", but close. LOL this does not confuse me.. But I suprised no one except Angel ever heard of Paul Baghdadlian or the Baghdadlian Surname. Edited January 26, 2004 by Armo77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 I am suprised no one ever heard of Paul Baghdadlian.. This is an Armenian site right? I know who he is. I just said he looks like a pillow biter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 I know who he is. I just said he looks like a pillow biter. what ever is a pillow biter mouse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 what ever is a pillow biter mouse? A fairy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel4hope Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 :D :D i was thinking that but thought i was wrong..lol hahaha man...thats a funny way to put it..sorry anyone i offend here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Excuse my ignorance but may I ask if Barskahays are Armenian or Persian? Beyroutzis are Beyroutzi becuase they are from Beyrout. Turkish - Armenians (what a oxymoron) are from Turkey. French-Armenians, Romanian-Armenians, etc. everything is clear, but it seems to me that Barskahay (often spelled as one word) implies some kind of special intimacy with Persians. So, Are barskahays armenian or persian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Are Rusahays Russian or Armenian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Never heard of Russahyes. Armenians lliving in Russia even do not call themselves Russian Armenians but Armenians from Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyebruin Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Excuse my ignorance but may I ask if Barskahays are Armenian or Persian? Beyroutzis are Beyroutzi becuase they are from Beyrout. Turkish - Armenians (what a oxymoron) are from Turkey. French-Armenians, Romanian-Armenians, etc. everything is clear, but it seems to me that Barskahay (often spelled as one word) implies some kind of special intimacy with Persians. So, Are barskahays armenian or persian? that would be "yes!" indeed we are armenian just from iran where we were led to by the king of persia (from armenia of course) about 400 or some years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 The Persian Armenians were moved to Esfahan (New Jugha) in 1605 after Shah Abbas captured the territory of Nakhichevan (Jugha is in Nakhichevan) from Ottoman Turkey. So, mostly Persian Armenians are Nakhichevantsi. Later in 1828 when the Russain army led by Paskevich captured Yerevan and advanced further capturing Northern Persia, a Russian diplomat Griboyedov organised the relocation of a part of Persian Armenians back to Armenia, mostly to Ararat valley. In 5th century Greater Armenia had a province called Parskahayq on the western bank of lake Urmia. I think the term Parskahay comes from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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