shiner Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 A man needs a woman because he needs the "nurture" of a woman. A woman needs a man because she needs the "security" of a man. I use "nurture" in a very, very broad sense. I also use "security" in a very, very broad sense. Does this make sense? I am not sure about this, but I want to find out why everybody (with few exceptions) wants somebody for the long run (marriage, etc.). I realize it's human nature, but what are some more objective reasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 I don't subscribe to that point of view AT ALL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 I don't subscribe to that point of view AT ALL. Lol. Neither do I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Same here. Shiner, you sure you asked the right people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 I think you are seeing this "anonymous internet discussion page phenomenon". The people you will find here in general will likely not fall in the "everybody needs somebody" category. The people here, I am hypothesising, are more of the type: I can find somebody at any time, with minimal effort, who will lend a sympathetic "ear" in the vast anonymity of the internet. Times are changing. ---Ok Thoth ... now it's your turn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner Posted September 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Sip,So you are saying that the whole premise of "everybody wants somebody" is wrong to begin with. You are saying that people are self-content and self sufficient without somebody constantly at their side. People are becoming more independent, and the newer generations are less likely to look for marriage in the same way as the older ones. It's a fact that people are waiting longer to get married. This makes more sense. To tell you the truth I kind of fit in this category too. I just thought I was in the minority. It seems like everywhere you turn people want to get married and most of all have kids. I always say that IF I get married it will be late (past 40 maybe even 50). I don't necessarily look forward to having kids. I say this as I'm 25. Maybe 5 years from now I'll have a different outlook but I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyebruin Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 'wanting to find someone' ...it's just like wanting to have friends...except you want to share 'a few more things' (hint, hint) with this person as well as a different level of love and intimacy than one can have with friends!! it's nice to come home to someone at the end of the day...too much independence will lead to loneliness, that's just the truth!! unless you burn yourself out with your career that the only thing you care about is coming home and going straight to bed!!! what a boring existence!! which WILL lead to depression after a while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Someone came up with the concept of marriage a long long time ago. It was certainly before the jet/automobile age and far from the communication age. Along the same lines, this concept of everlasting "romantic love" between a man and a woman started to (re)evolve at some point (Renaissance ?) and was reinforced by mainstream religions for various reasons. Now people have this misconception that "man" had been meant to find the "one true love" in his or her life since the beginning of time. And of course that hasn't been true all the time ... look back and you will find periods that even homosexual relationships were common place (the norm) at times. Look at for example Japanese Samurais I have said this before ... we are living in a very dynamic world now. People move great distances in short times for various reasons. Many are surrounded by strangers most of the time. Many years ago, things were much more communal. People spent entire life times in one place knowing the same set of people. They depended on each other for survival. So what this is telling me, is that we are yet again at a period of change. Much like the monogomous man/woman relationships have come into style for the recent past, I think there are clear signs that it is slowly going out of style and we'll see new things emerging. Now, we have systems in place (referring to US) that enable one to be completely independent from adolescence till death. Add on top of that media for completely new types of communities (ahem internet) and you have the basic ingredients that can completely change the social fabric. What will happen exactly I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner Posted September 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Hyebruin,The reasons you mention (loneliness, boredom, depression) are the reasons I see myself married sometime late in life as opposed to never. I think those feelings hit you much harder when you are older, past middle aged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Sip,So you are saying that the whole premise of "everybody wants somebody" is wrong to begin with. You are saying that people are self-content and self sufficient without somebody constantly at their side.Yes I guess I am saying that. Some people want and need somebody no doubt about that .... some people can't feel complete without having others around ... no doubt about that either. But that doesn't mean that EVERYONE is like that. NOTHING is set in stone. People sometimes forget that. I know several female friends who are slowly being devistated by the fact that they are supposed to get married before they hit 30. And that just simply perplexes me as I can find no "human life manual" that says that is in the operation specifications or otherwise things will not be covered under warranty Nothing is set in stone. Only thing is that we will all die at some point and we all have but one life to live. What you chose to do with that life is completely up to YOU. Ok that's enough of me being philosophical for this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Hyebruin,The reasons you mention (loneliness, boredom, depression) are the reasons I see myself married sometime late in life as opposed to never. I think those feelings hit you much harder when you are older, past middle aged. Sometimes I also wonder, though, whether one can't get bored of being with the same person all the time.Moreover, if I were to get married, it would be for having children, and since I don't like children, I don't see myself getting married until somehow I figure I might like to gradually bulge and suddenly deflate like billions of women before me and end up taking care of a soiler-bound-to-turn-teenager for years.Relationships are good, but I don't believe in this "your one and only other half, your soul-mate" sort of thing. Bull crap all the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 LOL....(OK Sip - I'll weigh in now...and this is for you....LOL) I basically agree with 'Bruin on this one (said and hinted at that is...) ...my advice though to Shiner & Stormy is (and to Sip...and perhaps 'Bruin as well - wishing for her to perhaps ease up her - seemingly very [too?] high standards - LOL - and find a good [Armenian or otherwise?] guy who gets her all wild [grrrr!] & tingly [ahhh!] but treats her as the fine thing that she is/deserves...etc) - don't wait forever/too long...you might really come to regret it (and there is no turning back time). I cannot emphasize too greatly how rewarding a relationship is with someone that you care deeply about and who cares for you the same and who you can do/see/experience wonderful things with...it will envigorate and make you a better person (and you always learn - about yourself - about things you never thought/know...and [if you are open to growing - as you should be] learn to appreciate new perspectives and truly grow as a person - much more than you ever can being alone...doing your same things etc) - and as you progress in your life (and perhaps move on - perhaps not...if they are/seem like "the one" or whatever) - these will be your most cherished memories (outside of perhaps your childhood...and then later your childrens childhood and growing up)... Its interesting to note how attitudes about marraige and family etc have changed/evolved so much from (not all so long ago...and from what still is the norm in most [traditional] places) to what we have now in the industrialised West and in urban dominated areas etc. Not that this is so much a bad thing...it just is. Also this idea of not being satisfied/becomming bored etc with only one parter (though a long life etc)...well this is not really a new concept...its just that our current lifestyles (with much more contact between the sexes...away from the home or otherwise)..as well as the more open discussion/awarness of sexuality (and the ever present media hype...young & restless, the naightly lives of the rich & famous...whatever)..well it gets people thinking & such (and this also may not be entirely a bad thing...if only more folks were more mature and open about things...etc [probably could warrent a whole discussion in itself...]) . And we also have a much higher participation etc in pre-marital sex and folks tend to have more partners through their life anyway (I'm talking pre-marraige here...)...(so in a sense get used to the idea of sex with more then one person in their life etc)..well that is just the way it is - and likely as our society eveolves things will move even more this direction. But back to the original question - there are many reasons (and I think 'Bruin has hit on some of the main ones) why folks seek out relationships/significant others and what have you (and Sip mentioned I think the evolutionary...and basic biological factors [and Domino didn't you once - long ago - say attraction was all chemical or such? I don't completely agree - but certainly there are biological/hormaonal factors at work as well]). And certainly as we age and go through phases the reasons for wanting (needing) a partner evolve as well (though hoopefully - if you are physically & mentally/emotionally healthy - sex will always be a reason..if not the primary - still a significant factor...as it should be - IMO - why you ask? many reason - one is it is an avenue to express love/tenderness & intamacy - that is so important in a healthy relationship, two - because its good fun - and we always need that [otherwise we become old & cranky...often long before "our time" - we need the oultlet/release...many folks don't get/have enough fun in there lives...and are just too stressed with no relief etc] and three - because its fun [did I say that?]...LOL). Still - for those who are thinking to wait and such (for a meaningfull long term/perhaps lifetime relationship...) - well don't wait too long - you are only getting older - and your selection is being culled...of course there are many "rejects" (not meant as negatively as it sounds...LOL) that get back into the pool (or even married folks...though not really your best option for a variety of reasons...) - but really I can't say enough about not waiting forever (for instance I have some/many regrets that I/we didn't have our children younger...and in fact if it wasn't for my wife's urging we may have waited longer - if it were up to me at the time - I didn't want to give up the "unfettered" life etc (just like I too - like many of you - wasn't so keen on the idea of getting married/settling down...and er OK - maybe I have some regrets there - LOL - but mostly not...LOL) - but now I regret that I will be older (and maybe not even alive) at some points in my children's life that I really want to see/experience - though luckily I am still in good enough physical/mental shape etc to do fun stuff with them now...etc - and hopefully I can last/live long enough for (most all) the rest...(and when you get to be my age you do start thinking about mortality - you see others your age or near dropping off...and I myself have recently had a [very] near death [medical] experience...(so yeah - it does get you thinking...like I never did in my 20s...where I used to sometimes think about being 40 in horror! LOL ...but its not so bad - all what you make of it...[20s are much better though! LOL]) So to all of you yungins who think the single life is best and want it to go on forever etc - I would advise to at least be open to the idea that you might find someone that is/might be worth settling with etc (and its worth looking for this "someone" - and I really think that there are a great many fine prospects all around...) - (but, well yeah in the meantime- go on and have your fun - and do so with gusto! - by all means - you only live once [though I supose Sasun can give us an argument there...) - and you should be out enjoying your youth and having a good time - and one of the very most rewarding - if not just the absolutley most rewarding thing (are you listening Sip?) is a meaningful and fun filled (in every way!) relationship with the opposite sex...or several...sharing intimacies (physical, emotional...sharing your thoughts, having someone to help you through tuff times and enjoy to the fullest all the [hopefully great many] good times....etc etc)...its the best! Really.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 I'm not saying spending the rest of your life with your spouse will be boring. I'm saying, what if you get bored? How can you not get bored? And what if that joke with the similarity between your spouse and the dish you order at the restaurant comes true - i.e., you like yours until you see what the person sitting next to you happens to have? Oh, and I don't watch that much TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 I'm not saying spending the rest of your life with your spouse will be boring. I'm saying, what if you get bored? How can you not get bored? And what if that joke with the similarity between your spouse and the dish you order at the restaurant comes true - i.e., you like yours until you see what the person sitting next to you happens to have? Oh, and I don't watch that much TV. Stormy - I'm not so sure its the issue of seeing another dish (literally...in a sense...LOL) and wanting it (over/in addition to the one that you already "have" per se) - though I guess that is a factor (and maybe the factor for some...and some [mostly guys] just can't pass up a dish that is available/offered to them & such and some just like the thrill of collecting and the like...). And sure I see all these cute young gals(and sometimes even yes...older/near my age etc...but mostly when your my age I think its the young gals that get you thinking...and maybe even seeing young couples and thinking again of those fun times...etc) and I certainly have desire (though not such to act on it...) - etc...but the boring thing (for some of us I guess) is more that with new things often/ussually comes excitement - and with routine (no matter how good/satisfying or what not)..well it becomes routine (and thus inherently less interesting then it could be - and certainly does not [ussually/always] fulfill/push those buttons the same way (as with something new...like a new car versus the one you have had for years...sure the old one may still drive great and be fun...but there is just something special and exciting about the new one...) - not at all - its a completley different thing...and for sex and just for being around/with someone all the time it can become a factor (loss of excitement and getting into predictable [and inherently less thrilling] routines. Thus couples really have to work at it to keep it interesting (and its also why or one of the reasons why - I think you often find older folks into the kinkier (sometimes quite bizarre - LOL) stuff...they need to do something to spice it up. (and I think that you are impling/understanding some of these things...well at least the first part of my point/post which is perhaps inherent in your post). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Relationships are good, but I don't believe in this "your one and only other half, your soul-mate" sort of thing. Bull crap all the way... If people are in relationships only until they think it is time to trade in their partner for next years model then its not surprising that nothing lasts. People that are important to your life at one moment should not be disposed of like last years fashion accessory or like a novel once it has been read. OK, most relationships are not for ever, and maybe for most relationships that is a very good thing, but I think that to start off without thinking somewhere in your head that "this is it, this is the one" is a sad and rather limiting outlook to take. That said, I think most people still do go into relationships thinking that it is something that will last. The trouble arises when one or both of them doesn't put enough effort into actually making it last, and the thing dies not because of boredom but because of sheer neglect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 ...my advice though to Ah, what would Thoth do to pass his idle hours if he were not able to dish out his large portions of advice so liberally! "In matters of matrimony or religion I never give any advice; because I would not have anybody's torments in this world or the next blamed on me." - Earl of Chesterfield, 1765 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Ok, this is not my favorite topic of all time, but still somewhat interesting. I think that one should make up his/her mind about the future even if he/she is very young. (Admittedly, that could change over time, but one can always amend the plans within reasonable limits). I think Thoth has a good point when saying not to delay marriage, children, relationship, etc. if that is what you plan on having for your future. Some people think, OK, I will get merried after 10 years, now let me enjoy the life of a single, let me enjoy freedom, adventures and casual sex, and all kinds of things that I can't do in a marriage. When I get satisfied of all these joys I will get married. Well I think this is a wrong treatment of one's own life. The reason is one can never be satisfied of pleasures, the more you want the the more your standars will grow and you will want more without being satisfied. So, if you feel you want to marry don't waste your youthfulness on a meaningless pursuit. If you want a wife and children then why wait? (unless there are other problems such as fincancial problems) As to the "other's dish" that is not a good thing. Aside from the moral issues and potential betrayal of "your dish", how can one be ever satisfied? There are always millions of other dishes that one can encounter but not be able to have a taste. So wise people don't think about others' dishes and stick to their dish. As to the original question, no, of course not everybody is looking for somebody. That is not a requirement. It all depends on what you want from this life. To be sure, everybody is looking for something, but not necessarily for somebody For example, a lot of people are looking for someone to avoid loneliness, but I, for example, often look for solitude and long for a single life. (That of course causes problems with my poor girlfriend). I think there are many other men like me. There are also other reasons. A lot of men run away from the constant harrasment of their wives, not for other women, but for friendship and company with other men, sort of a short term asylum very often with alcohol. So marriage is not a good thing for them, or they couldn't make it work. Whatever the history, we see a failed family. It would be better for such men not marry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 Sasun - Yes - I know many who have waited until their mid/late 30s or early 40s to have children - and then find that they have difficulties or can't - this is a particualr issue with women as they age - getting pregnant becomes increasingly difficult - if not impossible. Many of our friends have had to resort to artificial or assited means - with mixed results and in at least 3 cases complications - all of them difficult to deal with - some with lasting impact. On a happier note - all are with children (in some cases in multiples! goes with the territory with these sorts of things...) - and one couple just adopted a little boy (from Russia...I tried to talk them into adopting from Armenia - but her family was from Russia - so thats what they chose)... The "dish" issue is really a complex one (not just so simple as you have portrayed) - and there are many different situations...though in general/for most your advice is probably best... And yeah - many people should really not get married (and too bad for them...) and others (some of the same) should certainly never have children - they just aren't cut out for it (lots of folks just can't subserviate themselves/their needs etc for others in general (for instance on the surface I would question American-Hye having children from his (somewhat narccistic) portrayal of himself here - though I'm not saying that he wouldn't make a good father - I really don't know him well enough. And this was a problem with one of my (earlier) loves of my life - she was - for the most part - unintrested in having children (as well as having some problems in that area to begin with) - and I don't think she would have been good mother material at all (unlike my wife! - who is a super mom! - and a great partner all around). As much as I loved her and as well as we generally got along (and as great as the sex was - which it certainly was...too good - and that even was a problem...it was like we were addicted to each other - even when all the rest of our relationship was essentially long over). I knew that our relationship was ultimatly doomed (and this caused me great sorrow). So I broke up with her (numerous times...LOL...funny the first time we broke up it was her dumping me...but all the many times after it was the other way around...but then I would be weak...LOL)...and I still think about her (with love & lust - LOL) ...(though we haven't at all kept in touch...probably/most certanly for the best - LOL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 (edited) Yes - relationships all take effort. Too bad some folks never figure this out.. Edited September 23, 2003 by THOTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 The "dish" issue is really a complex one (not just so simple as you have portrayed) - and there are many different situations...though in general/for most your advice is probably best... Well, I realize I oversimplified. You are right, it is never as simple. But if the husband (or wife) is quite committed to the spouse then other dishes will take less of his/her attention, and things become simpler. I think we should all try to introduce as much simplicity in our lifes as possible - key to happinness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyebruin Posted September 24, 2003 Report Share Posted September 24, 2003 wow, thoth you still think/lust about her??? but isn't that like cheating in your heart? i'm just wondering!! i'd die if my husband (someday!) thought of his girlfriends in that way!!! ~~~thoth, that made me sad just reading it~~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitterSweet Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 well here's my analogy do you remember when you were young, when you'd be scared, or hurt.... when you'd run into your mothers arms and hug her reaaallly hard... you'd receive a sort of vibration that would soothe the pain and calm you down... I think that longing for a partner is just like the longing of a child for their mother... it's for a longing of a sort of connection... a inner connection between you and another where you feel if you spend a second with them, you'll feel comfort, relaxed, and your worries will go away. I think thats what we humans unconsciously long for, and when we find a partner.. someone who will be there when we need them most, to comfort us, and make us feel the warmth of being loved.... it is then we make the connection, and we're happy. ok, now i'll wakeeeee up to reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 ... do you remember when you were young, when you'd be scared, or hurt.... when you'd run into your mothers arms and hug her reaaallly hard... you'd receive a sort of vibration that would soothe the pain and calm you down...It's interesting you should mention that since I have never experienced anything like that. Ever since I can remember (since very very young) I've hated "hugs" ... and not to mention the really annoying cheek pinches from the relatives but that's another issue. I would rarely ever complain about pain or hurt (including the time I broke my shoulder and it took us 2 days to realize it maybe good to have it x-rayed since it just didin't look right ... ended up spending a week in the hospital and have surgery and pins inserted etc) and I can't remember ever being scared about anything and needing to run to parents or ask for help from anyone. Seems like this is something that is very personality dependent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 A parallel that just occured to me is with cats ... my uncle has a cat that LOVES being hugged, brushed, etc. But oh boy I just want to see you try that with my cat! She'll tear a gash on your skin down to the BONE trying to get away. She hates being grabbed, touched, or petted ... except on the head. She loves being scratched on the head but that's it. On the other hand, she'll spend hours playing with you. Just tie a piece of paper on a string and gnaaa galis em!!!! Hours of non stop action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 I'm not sure about the cat analogy - but definitely one's longing for love/affection & comfort are definately driven by one's personality and formed by one's upbringing. If I ever bumped my head, or fell on my butt - it was my mother who came running to me (to comfort me, i think, but now I'm not so sure ). So I grew up without the same independance as Sip. (that's not saying I'm a suck - it just means I'm a little more open to affection than 'Slab of Steel' Sip ). I think it's important to note that those getting into relationship because they need love/affection, or worse, they just need a relationship - are going to be in trouble later on. Love must come first - ie. Love your partner, don't NEED your partner. Get the jist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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