Sasun Posted September 14, 2003 Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arad9 Posted September 14, 2003 Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 That depends on which God Armenia is much more important then the God you worship.I see that you first quote a man that murdered Armenians now you are trying to make being an Armenian is not important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted September 14, 2003 Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 Atheist here, but I think they are unrelated. God is for personal, patriotism is for the present and for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted September 14, 2003 Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 "Armenia will only benefit if we worship God and follow His Word"Â Did the Ottoman Armenians benefited by worshiping God? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted September 14, 2003 Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 My great-grandfather opened up his storehouse to feed all the poor, Armenian, Assyrian, Jew and Turk alike. He was a truly Christian man. God was nowhere to be found in the Summer of 1915 when he and his three sons, and the large majority of their families were drowned in the Tigris, the first families to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted September 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 That depends on which God Armenia is much more important then the God you worship.I see that you first quote a man that murdered Armenians now you are trying to make being an Armenian is not important. I quoted a murderer???? are you serious I don't think you understand me, or you are taking me for someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted September 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 (edited) Did the Ottoman Armenians benefited by worshiping God?I believe had the Armenians worshipped God and followed Christian principles either there would be no Ottoman empire, or Armenia would be big and strong and not part of it.Even during the Ottomans if the leadership/intelligencia/the businesspeople were not selfish they would have cared about the ordinary provincial Armenians and establish unity, national self-conscousness and that would lead to a defensive mindset, maybe even revolutionary mindset. Anything would be better than just dying without knowing why they are dying. It is a mistake to think that Christian principles lead one to let killed. Christianity is a religion of life, not death... Well, this is not exactly what your post is about but has to do a lot with our widely accepted misconception. And to be more precise to your post, God cares about us much more than we do. We can understand our best interests only by worshipping God. Edited September 14, 2003 by Sasun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted September 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 Atheist here, but I think they are unrelated. God is for personal, patriotism is for the present and for the future. I can see what you mean being an atheist. As a believer I think if everyone or most in a society practice Christian principles (by that I mean what Christ has told) then everyone will benefit. For example, if Armenia's leadership cared about their fellow Armenians, big or small, they would not be selfish and would stand together for the common interests. Istead of that, they were selfishly pursuing their own interests and revolting against the king, competing with each other, or doing similar things. As a result we lost our independence. This is just one example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yerevanian Posted May 2, 2004 Report Share Posted May 2, 2004 "Armenia will only benefit if we worship God and follow His Word"Â Did the Ottoman Armenians benefited by worshiping God? Domino, what do you mean by Ottoman Armenian????? I know Eastern and Western Armenian.... is it new type? I think those two words are Oxymorons..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted May 2, 2004 Report Share Posted May 2, 2004 (edited) I always find it funny how human beings try to please God, but yet God rarely does the same for them. Â I think Armenia's interest is higher than Gods, mainly because God's interest is his own, while our interests rest in restoring our nation to its earlier glory. Â However, there is not enough information to give a satisfactory answer because how do we compare the importance of each interest to one another, when we do not if a God exists nor do we know what his ultimate goal is? Edited May 31, 2004 by Vigil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted May 2, 2004 Report Share Posted May 2, 2004 It is a mistake to think that Christian principles lead one to let killed. I must disagree. Though certainly not always the case, a lot of priests encouraged their people to not fight back, because 'that would make us as bad as them' and told them to trust in God. Well, they did, and we all know what happened then don't we... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted May 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2004 Though certainly not always the case, a lot of priests encouraged their people to not fight back, because 'that would make us as bad as them' and told them to trust in God. Well, they did, and we all know what happened then don't we... Yes you are right that there were such cases but I don't think that's what Christ has taught. Self-defence doesn't make one as bad as the attackers. Heroism is something different - if you have to die defending your country that's a Christian thing in my opinion, not at all a sin. But to stand and do nothing proves no Christian values. Why be a Christian if all you do is stand and let your enemies kill you? Anyone can do it without any religion. Buddhism explicitly says not to respond to violence even if you are going to be killed, it is the principle of absolute non-violence. Whereas in Christ's teachings there is 'turn the other cheek' principle which does not necessarily mean let them kill you with everyone else who depends on you and hopes you will defend them. I am not at all sure that what those priests have said not to fight back is a true Christian principle. Of course, one must trust in God. But does that mean not to do anything to preserve your life? Why then we work to earn a living but don't trust God that he will feed us while we are idle. Well, we do trust in God. In that we trust that if we work there will be a living and we will survive, if we defend ourselves against the enemy then we will go on living, if we follow religion then there will be benefits promised by God, etc. To follow ones religion and be a good Christian one must be alive in the first place  Just some thoughts, some things are just not straightforward and clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Loks like i was the only one to chose numder 2 thus far... After its time, the christian faith will lead directly to the beheading of all who do not accept the anti-christ, the mark of the beast. I do not think you guys know enough about the bible about God, not just whosever God, but the true God depicted in the Bible. I do not want to sound boastfull or errogant here, dont take this the wrong way and as usualy attack my principles and views and blunt statemetns.  We will see with time. Some of us wont be as fortunate as to not know the real truth. It is said, Woe to those who know the good news, and knowingly forsake my kingdom. And God willing some of us are fortunate enough to know and beleive...  good riddens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted May 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Gevo, just to clarify, 2 & 4 are not mutually exclusive. The difference is how important is Armenia in ones life. Both answers mean that God is very important, the most important thing in ones life. The significance of 4 is that God is not against Armenia and Armenian people, there is no such choice to make (God vs. Armenia). While 2 doesn't necessarily see it that way. Maybe I was not clear enough when making the poll but that's what I had in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Gevo, just to clarify, 2 & 4 are not mutually exclusive. The difference is how important is Armenia in ones life. Both answers mean that God is very important, the most important thing in ones life. The significance of 4 is that God is not against Armenia and Armenian people, there is no such choice to make (God vs. Armenia). While 2 doesn't necessarily see it that way. Maybe I was not clear enough when making the poll but that's what I had in mind. Your point was clear. And i hope my was also. Â Dont think i dont like my homeland. I love it more than one can show here in America... Â Sasun, i agree with the fourth choice. But the 2nd choice stands above that.. for me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted May 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Your point was clear. And i hope my was also. Â Dont think i dont like my homeland. I love it more than one can show here in America... Â Sasun, i agree with the fourth choice. But the 2nd choice stands above that.. for me.. Yes, I see now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Yes, I see now great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 (edited) Man can not worship God on an empty stomach. Edited May 31, 2004 by Vigil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Man can not worship God on an empty stomach. why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 (edited) why not? Isn't that a form of suicide? Edited May 31, 2004 by Vigil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 Man can not worship God on an empty stomach. There is a positive side to that, thus you will have chance to see GOD sooner rather then later acourding to some <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 Man can not worship God on an empty stomach. in contrary, i think it's mostly people with empty stomach who worship God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Yes you are right that there were such cases but I don't think that's what Christ has taught. Self-defence doesn't make one as bad as the attackers. Heroism is something different - if you have to die defending your country that's a Christian thing in my opinion, not at all a sin. But to stand and do nothing proves no Christian values. Why be a Christian if all you do is stand and let your enemies kill you? Anyone can do it without any religion. Buddhism explicitly says not to respond to violence even if you are going to be killed, it is the principle of absolute non-violence. Whereas in Christ's teachings there is 'turn the other cheek' principle which does not necessarily mean let them kill you with everyone else who depends on you and hopes you will defend them. I am not at all sure that what those priests have said not to fight back is a true Christian principle. Of course, one must trust in God. But does that mean not to do anything to preserve your life? Why then we work to earn a living but don't trust God that he will feed us while we are idle. Well, we do trust in God. In that we trust that if we work there will be a living and we will survive, if we defend ourselves against the enemy then we will go on living, if we follow religion then there will be benefits promised by God, etc. To follow ones religion and be a good Christian one must be alive in the first place  Just some thoughts, some things are just not straightforward and clear. Unfortunately the priests who thought like you could be counted one one hand at the time but I agree with every single word you've said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted May 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Unfortunately the priests who thought like you could be counted one one hand at the time but I agree with every single word you've said. I think it is simple commonsense (there is no reason to loose commonsense priest or no priest alike). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 By the way doesn't the Bible say something like 'He who takes up the sword will also die by the sword'? Or am I really off target here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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