Arvestaked Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 (edited) religion/sperituality/faith/ in essence doesn’t say otherwise. Yes it does. It says to believe in a man in the sky. It says to not say "I hate." To not eat pork. To turn the other cheek. It says homosexuality is bad. It says separate yourself from the material world. It says be celibate. It says love everyone including your enemy. It says you body is not yours to command. It says beg. It says make yourself inferior. It says do not ask why. It says wear a ridiculous looking hat everyday. It says wrap yourself in a ridiculous cloth everyday and cover your face. It says sacrifice a cow by cutting its throat. It says do not touch the sacred cow. It says do not covet. It says "I am right and they are wrong." It says a bunch of things that are completely meaningless all there to control people. To keep one's humanity in check. To put a cap on people's natural selves. The idea of faith does not go hand-in-hand with religion. Faith is unavoidable because one can argue that you accept any aspect of reality on faith, but it is a concept that is butchered by religion. Religion has no faith in people -- in humanity. That goes against the nature of religion. Religion says have faith in that guy because he does not have faith in you and he is right. As soon as you set up boundries, you destroy what would be faith in humanity and religion is all about boundries. I am not saying do not be religious. That is a personal choice. But to say it says nothing more than "faith in humanity and the future" is not true. Religion, whether it be Buddhism, or Christianity, or Islam or whatever, would alienate me from their ultimate goal whether it be a heaven or a nirvana or something similar and is therefore, nonsense. It is nonsense because I am a good person (caring, creative, intelligent) but I would be excluded because I am not part of the group. It is not good enough to be a good person. You have to either live in monestary and do nothing for your entire life, or rest between Friday and Sunday and not cut the hair of your temple, or get down on my knees and pray to a city everyday, or never practice autoerotic behavior... the list goes on. It is not enough to be good. You have to be good and surrendered. Turn the other cheek? I do not think so. You touch my cheek without permission and I break you nose, because I am God and you have no right. So what? Does that mean I need to burn in hell for eternity? No. Edited January 31, 2005 by dusken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Yes it does. It says to believe in a man in the sky. It says to not say "I hate." To not eat pork. To turn the other cheek. It says homosexuality is bad. It says separate yourself from the material world. It says be celibate. It says love everyone including your enemy. It says you body is not yours to command. It says beg. It says make yourself inferior. It says do not ask why. It says wear a ridiculous looking hat everyday. It says wrap yourself in a ridiculous cloth everyday and cover your face. It says sacrifice a cow by cutting its throat. It says do not touch the sacred cow. It says do not covet. It says "I am right and they are wrong." It says a bunch of things that are completely meaningless all there to control people. To keep one's humanity in check. To put a cap on people's natural selves. The idea of faith does not go hand-in-hand with religion. Faith is unavoidable because one can argue that you accept any aspect of reality on faith, but it is a concept that is butchered by religion. Religion has no faith in people -- in humanity. That goes against the nature of religion. Religion says have faith in that guy because he does not have faith in you and he is right. As soon as you set up boundries, you destroy what would be faith in humanity and religion is all about boundries. I am not saying do not be religious. That is a personal choice. But to say it says nothing more than "faith in humanity and the future" is not true. Religion, whether it be Buddhism, or Christianity, or Islam or whatever, would alienate me from their ultimate goal whether it be a heaven or a nirvana or something similar and is therefore, nonsense. It is nonsense because I am a good person (caring, creative, intelligent) but I would be excluded because I am not part of the group. It is not good enough to be a good person. You have to either live in monestary and do nothing for your entire life, or rest between Friday and Sunday and not cut the hair of your temple, or get down on my knees and pray to a city everyday, or never practice autoerotic behavior... the list goes on. It is not enough to be good. You have to be good and surrendered. Turn the other cheek? I do not think so. You touch my cheek without permission and I break you nose, because I am God and you have no right. So what? Does that mean I need to burn in hell for eternity? No. style_images/master/snapback.png "God is dead. We killed him. You and I". --Nietzsche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Some how I knew you would respond to me first. I must admit, though, that I was expecting an essay. It is better this way: a Nietzsche quote, and so closes the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Some how I knew you would respond to me first. I must admit, though, that I was expecting an essay. It is better this way: a Nietzsche quote, and so closes the topic. style_images/master/snapback.png Though I do not agree with you or Nietzchi, I most certainly find him the most captivating of philosophers, if you can call him as such, in his own weird sort of way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 (edited) Totally agree, however, thru religion/sperituality/faith/ in essence doesn’t say otherwise. style_images/master/snapback.png duskenchik, this is what I said, do not alter my post please, you are talking about religious dogmas I talk about true spirituality, why can’t humanism be a religion? Edited January 31, 2005 by Edward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 duskenchik, this is what I said, do not alter my post please, you are talking about religious dogmas I talk about true spirituality, why can’t humanism be a religion? style_images/master/snapback.png Humanism can be a religion... and in my book is, just like atheism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Humanism can be a religion... and in my book is, just like atheism. style_images/master/snapback.png What about Fadixism or mult-unversalism, Hyeforumism.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 What about Fadixism or mult-unversalism, Hyeforumism.? style_images/master/snapback.png No, they aren't. Seriously though, I do believe humanism is a religion, just like atheism. dusken interpretation is kind of narrowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 (edited) If Nietzsche were to lived in our times he might have had a deferent view on religion, his stand/hatred on religion/Christianity was mostly due to the fact that Nietzsche was a suppressed homosexual, however I have read most of his works, I have to go back and refresh my memory on that particular subject. i enjoyed very much "beyond the good and evil" style_images/master/snapback.png I have to disagree with this allegation of "suppressed homosexual". When in history certain men of genius rise above the masses who are toiling in the fields of misanthropy, they are dubbed as such usually by self-styled psychoanalysts. Edited February 1, 2005 by Anonymouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Humanism can be a religion... and in my book is, just like atheism. style_images/master/snapback.png Atheism is not a religion. This is obvious to anyone with properly functioning neurons. Just because it has "-theism" in the word do not make it a religion. That is a blatant disregard for the letter "a" and what is religion is defined by the principles not the nomenclature. There are religions that are atheistic but atheism is not a religion in anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Humanism is also not a religion. You can have a religion that is humanistic but humanism itself is not a religion because it is not a belief in a higher power. Humanism is just a reverance for humans. That is basically it. It is not a belief that defines reality but a belief that expresses what reality should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 duskenchik, this is what I said, do not alter my post please, you are talking about religious dogmas I talk about true spirituality, why can’t humanism be a religion? style_images/master/snapback.png I did not alter you post. True spirituality is subjective. That is like saying this is a real religion and everything else is a fake religion. Dogma is something that, more often than not, goes along with religion and because of that you cannot generalize and say that religion stands for faith in humanity and the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 You did left out good portion of my post when quoting me, which in essence was totally deferent manning then what you presented, in middle ages someone in France was executed because the coma was misplaced, so don’t do it again, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 (edited) Atheism is not a religion. This is obvious to anyone with properly functioning neurons. Just because it has "-theism" in the word do not make it a religion. That is a blatant disregard for the letter "a" and what is religion is defined by the principles not the nomenclature. There are religions that are atheistic but atheism is not a religion in anyway. style_images/master/snapback.png Be respectful to others thoughts, or maybe you do question your own neuronal functions? The subject has been discussed extensivly in this board, and I brought many arguments. First of all, when I talk about atheism, I am reffering to all the flavours in the category atheism, just like when talking about theism, one reffers to every flavours in the cathegory theism. Humanism is a type of atheism, even thought there are some "hijacked" forms that do not profess atheism. Religion is a belief itself before being anything else, atheism is a belief, a taking position in what concerns a god... so I consider it a religion. Edited February 1, 2005 by QueBeceR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 I have to disagree with this allegation of "suppressed homosexual". When in history certain men of genius rise above the masses who are toiling in the fields of misanthropy, they are dubbed as such usually by self-styled psychoanalysts. style_images/master/snapback.png His supressed homosexuality is not just simple allegations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Good, at least someone else is saying the truth about atheism not being a religion. Domino, every time that you'll say that atheism is a religion I'll be there to say that you are wrong. No more arguments and discussions, just saying that you are wrong on this one. Why, well, again, because you are wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Good, at least someone else is saying the truth about atheism not being a religion. Domino, every time that you'll say that atheism is a religion I'll be there to say that you are wrong. No more arguments and discussions, just saying that you are wrong on this one. Why, well, again, because you are wrong style_images/master/snapback.png Anoushik, you as an atheist are biased here, you don't accept your belief being compared with theistic beliefs. I gave examples of beliefs that are considered as religions, yet there are no god, or supperior being... they're atheistic. And here again, when starting to discuss about what things are, it start becoming a philosophical discussion, in such cases, arguments are the only things that matter, and not society imposed conceptions. So for you to say I am wrong, you must first bring arguments against my arguments to say what I am claiming is wrong. You can not just claim my theses is wrong, neither trying to bring arguments without raising mines, to support the anti-theses. You were there when we were discussing about this, and I am waiting anyone answering to my arguments directly, rather than my theses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 So for you to say I am wrong, you must first bring arguments against my arguments to say what I am claiming is wrong. You can not just claim my theses is wrong, neither trying to bring arguments without raising mines, to support the anti-theses. style_images/master/snapback.png Please, you know very well we've been over this numerous times before. And it doesn't matter whether I'm an atheist or not, the question is not about me, but whether atheism is a religion or not. There is nothing religious about atheism. No... I won't go there. No arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 There is nothing religious about atheism. No... I won't go there. No arguments. style_images/master/snapback.png You're a dogmatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 You're a dogmatic. style_images/master/snapback.png Couldn't be more wrong I've got an essay to prepare and that's why I don't want to get into this. However, it is clearly evident that you don't know much about the definition of religion and never wanted to admit that you might be wrong therefore you keep pushing your belief about atheism. Now, don't worry, I'm not turning into Thoth but I would like you to take a look at the following articles Atheism is just another religion Atheism and Theism; Proof and Disprove Atheism myths and misconceptions (just generally interesting to read) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 (edited) Couldn't be more wrong I've got an essay to prepare and that's why I don't want to get into this. However, it is clearly evident that you don't know much about the definition of religion and never wanted to admit that you might be wrong therefore you keep pushing your belief about atheism. Now, don't worry, I'm not turning into Thoth but I would like you to take a look at the following articles Atheism is just another religion Atheism and Theism; Proof and Disprove Atheism myths and misconceptions (just generally interesting to read) style_images/master/snapback.png But, to show me wrong, you provide articles comming from an atheistic site, it does not make sense at all. My belief about atheism is based on readings about religion... an the wide range of definitions. I will be writting something tomorow, but just to post something now, here read yourself all the definitions about religion and see for yourself the implications, it is basically what I have been saying all along for months. http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_defn.htm Tommorow, I will be using the US legal system and many other references. Edited February 1, 2005 by QueBeceR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 (edited) just saying that you are wrong on this one. style_images/master/snapback.png Only on this one! You're so kind! anoushik,The following may give some credibility to Domino's interpretation! (In English) http://atheisme.free.fr/Religion/What-is-religion-1.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion (In French) The French Wikipedia http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion and Dictionary http://portail.atilf.fr/cgi-bin/dico1look....articletype=ALL Edited February 1, 2005 by Siamanto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Only on this one! You're so kind! anoushik,The following may give some credibility to Domino's interepretation! (In English) http://atheisme.free.fr/Religion/What-is-religion-1.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion (In French) The French Wikipedia http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion and Dictionary http://portail.atilf.fr/cgi-bin/dico1look....articletype=ALL style_images/master/snapback.png But, by assuming that I wasn't wrong only in this one, you suppose I am wrong in this one too. But the definitions you posted, can as well be interpreted as supports to what I have been claiming. So a clarification from your part will be more than welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Oh, and that definition from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion Religion, sometimes used interchangeably with faith, is commonly defined as belief concerning the supernatural, sacred, or divine, and the practices and institutions associated with such belief. In its broadest sense some have defined it as the sum total of answers given to explain humankind's relationship with the universe. Is what I have been saying for long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 (edited) anoushik,The following may give some credibility to Domino's interpretation! (In English) http://atheisme.free.fr/Religion/What-is-religion-1.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion ... style_images/master/snapback.png But the definitions you posted, can as well be interpreted as supports to what I have been claiming. So a clarification from your part will be more than welcome. style_images/master/snapback.png No comments! Does that clarifies my statement? Only on this one! You're so kind! smile.gif style_images/master/snapback.png Edited February 1, 2005 by Siamanto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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