Death Penalty

[sev-mard]

For sure aghper, the cops do have it out for 'colored' folks. Its hard trying to explain to a jermak, but its true. There is heavy racial profiling. My Dad used to get pulled over in his BMW when were we kids, in the car with him. And the cops would say "sorry sir you just fit the profile of a drug dealer" ie, black guy in a nice car.

 

crazy

[Armo77]

For sure aghper, the cops do have it out for 'colored' folks. Its hard trying to explain to a jermak, but its true. There is heavy racial profiling. My Dad used to get pulled over in his BMW when were we kids, in the car with him. And the cops would say "sorry sir you just fit the profile of a drug dealer" ie, black guy in a nice car.

 

crazy

To be honest my father (a white business man who drives a Mercedes) was pulled over by LAPD last year and was harassed to no end.. Some cops are just assholes to everyday citizens in general.. But I understand they must come down harder on Blacks... Some of the cops are on power trips possibly due to being picked on in High school or something. But not all cops are bad and not all cops are light skinned. As for my father being messed with... I dont' know though.. maybe they thought my dad was Tony Soprano or something. lol

[sev-mard]

I understand that bro, and depending on demographics different ppl will get harassed, but it's pretty well known how the coppers deal with sevs, at least to us it's known.

 

I mean in burbank all I see is armos and blacks, stopped and pulled out their cars and searched. And while some of us do shady stuff, the cops then just assume we all do it you know. The statistics are there.

 

I remember a stat saying that somewhere in the east coast they took statistics of police stops on this expressway. The population surrouding the expressway(ie those who most frequently used it) included a mere 10% afro-american population. But the traffic stops and tickets revealed that 65%+ of all stops and tickets were made on that group. Now I know that not EVERY SINGLE on of them had a broken light, or was speeding, u know. The profiling is just so obvious they don't even really try and hide it anymore.

 

I believe me i'm not about defending anyone just because they are black or armenian, but if i haven't done anything, don't pull me over just because i'm black and you know black ppl who have done things.

 

peace

[gurgen]

I don't think it's worth to pay tax in order to keep people like child molesters and serial rapists/killers alive. I don't believe these people can be 'cured'.

 

Just my opinion.

[Anileve]

You guys should all watch 21 grams, sheds some light on this issue indirectly. Perhaps you might see things from a different point of view.

[SirumemKez20]

I don't think it's worth to pay tax in order to keep people like child molesters and serial rapists/killers alive. I don't believe these people can be 'cured'.

 

Just my opinion.

I agree with you Gurgen, I don't think it's right for others (criminals) to take an innocent persons life, or rape anyone. I think people like that are sick, and shouldn't deserve to live they sit in jail watch cable, eat, sleep, what else do they need? I don't think that by them thinking about what they have done, will change anything.

Edited December 8, 2003 by SirumemKez20

[Anileve]

I don't think it's worth to pay tax in order to keep people like child molesters and serial rapists/killers alive. I don't believe these people can be 'cured'.

 

Just my opinion.

Let’s explore this statement. I am sure that you don’t want to murder all criminal, irrelevant of their crimes, thus prisons should still exit. Now if you consider this true, then it is also true that to keep the system alive the Gov. has to delegate a certain portion of your taxes towards the funding of prisons. You and I have no say in which prisoners we would like to fund, or which pothole we would like to be fixed with our tax money. The Gov. decides that for us, it’s a public sector, now if you ran your own private prison than you might decide who’ll get fried and who will have the desert for being good. Other than that extreme systems always have loopholes and to play with the possibility of executing an innocent individual is very dangerous.

 

Living with your crimes is a severe punishment on it’s own, being executed never fulfills the prophecy of Karma. Just watch 21 Grams and perhaps you might understand.

[vava]

You guys should all watch 21 grams, sheds some light on this issue indirectly. Perhaps you might see things from a different point of view.

Ani - I think I've seen you mention his in another thread. Do you more info about the film or the cast? A URL, maybe? I'd love to know more - sounds very interesting.

Thanks.

[vava]

You and I have no say in which prisoners we would like to fund, or which pothole we would like to be fixed with our tax money. The Gov. decides that for us, it’s a public sector...

that may be true - but small-time crooks, and two-bit criminals are not likely to stay in prison for a long time. The economic issue is exacerbated by life sentences lasting 25 years or more. That's 25 years of 3-meals a day, TV time, excercise everyday, free health-care and precription drugs, cigarette allowance, conjugal visits, access to libraries, computers, internet, education by correspondance....the list goes on. Why?

 

When someone decides to take the life of another - or to scar/traumatize someone future through repugnant violence or rape - then they FOREGO there individual human rights. It's simple. And still, the death penalty should not be used unless there is a solid irrefutable evidence that the purpetrator is guilty.

 

That my two cents...

[Anileve]

I’ve noticed that rape has been brought up as a brutal crime that should be worthy of Death Penalty. Well let’s look at the facts here: rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years. Instead of emphasizing the importance of Death Penalty, don’t you think that we should advocate a longer sentence for rape, it just sounds so absurd and makes me so furious, you can just tell that men are still dominating the law making business. Rape with a gun is 10 times the sentence of rape without a gun, does that mean that the poor woman received less damage without a gun held to her head than with? Isn’t it worse knowing that there are no weapons applied and you feel weak and are trembling to break free but can’t because of the overwhelming power of the man? This is just sick and retarded, to justify actions of some inhuman men that can’t get any action otherwise!!!!!!!! For God’s sake drug dealers serve longer sentences than rapists!

 

Now in terms of prison Vava, let’s see what you mentioned….

 

"That's 25 years of 3-meals a day, TV time, exercise everyday, free health-care and prescription drugs, cigarette allowance, conjugal visits, access to libraries, computers, internet, education by correspondence...."

 

It’s funny but you know what it sounds like to me? Communism, yes all of the things mentioned above. But you know what both of them have in common, the most important aspect for human existence without which you lose your individuality, your sense of purpose and live in constant fear, THAT IS LACK OF FREEDOM!!!

 

The trade off in that luxurious lifestyle, as you indirectly implied, is that 80% of the men that do get out or are there, develop insomnia, have constant horrifying flashbacks, catch deadly diseases and when they get out they have no use to the world and have very little chance of regaining their normal life back! Everything has 2 sides to it, if you see only one side you neglect the truth.

 

Please read this article.

 

CENTRAL PARK JOGGER CASE IS REOPENED AFTER NEW DNA EVIDENCE SHOWS FIVE AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND LATINO YOUTHS WHO WERE IMPRISONED FOR YEARS DID NOT COMMIT THE RAPE

Attorneys for the original defendants in the infamous central park jogger case held a press conference yesterday calling for a reversal of the convictions now that new evidence has emerged.

It was a case that rocked the city, inflaming racial tensions in New York and around the country. In April 1989 a young white jogger in Central Park was raped, beaten and left for dead. Five African-American and Latino teenagers were convicted. They served many years in jail; the last just got out of prison several weeks ago after thirteen years. At the time, the headlines screamed, ‘Wolf Pack’, ‘Wilding,’ ‘Teenagers singing wilding songs in prison.’

It may well have been a deciding factor in the New York State Legislature’s decision to re-establish the state’s death penalty. Shortly after the attack Donald Trump took out full paid ads in all the New York papers calling to “Bring Back the Death Penalty” and referring to the young defendants in the jogger case as good candidates for execution.

In news that was barely reported just this last January, convicted rapist Matias Reyes unexpectedly confessed to the crime. He said he did it alone. Several months later, DNA tests showed that Reyes “proved beyond question” that he raped the jogger, according to a law enforcement official quoted in the New York Times.

[Sip]

I think it is unwise to suggest the death penalty for rape. If you have rape and murder having the same penalty, then what would the deterrant for the rapist be from killing his victim? It is fairly obvious that a dead victim can't testify anyway and the rape is already committed ...

[Anileve]

I think it is unwise to suggest the death penalty for rape. If you have rape and murder having the same penalty, then what would the deterrant for the rapist be from killing his victim? It is fairly obvious that a dead victim can't testify anyway and the rape is already committed ...

Very good point Seap. And I have to add that suggesting Death Penalty is unwise all together. If you read the article I posted you'll see the danger in that. If the Penalty was imposed those innocent teenagers would have been executed, and later the real criminal would confess the crime. What would that make the justice system?

[Anileve]

Ani - I think I've seen you mention his in another thread. Do you more info about the film or the cast? A URL, maybe? I'd love to know more - sounds very interesting.

Thanks.

I adored this movie, that is why I think I plug it everywhere.

 

Here are the links Vava:

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0315733

 

http://movies.go.com/movies/numbers/21grams_2003/

 

I don't suggest you read too much about it, just go see it. I guarantee you will like it, you have to just feel this one, words will not do it justice.

[vava]

Thanks for the links Ani! I'm off to bed now but I'll look at your Central Park Jogger later sometime.... And BTW I never read too much about a flick I'm going to see - expectations have everything to do with your level of enjoyment.

[Sip]

I have to add that suggesting Death Penalty is unwise all together. If you read the article I posted you'll see the danger in that. If the Penalty was imposed those innocent teenagers would have been executed, and later the real criminal would confess the crime. What would that make the justice system?

That part I don't agree with. I generally don't think general policy should be made based on special cases... will there be "false positives" for death penalty. Sure. Nothing is fool-proof in life. The question is cost vs. benefit ... and if you are going to tell me that even a single human life is "infinitely valuable" (i.e. we can't tolaerate any false positives for death penalty), then I don't agree.

[gurgen]

Let’s explore this statement. I am sure that you don’t want to murder all criminal, irrelevant of their crimes, thus prisons should still exit. Now if you consider this true, then it is also true that to keep the system alive the Gov. has to delegate a certain portion of your taxes towards the funding of prisons. You and I have no say in which prisoners we would like to fund, or which pothole we would like to be fixed with our tax money. The Gov. decides that for us, it’s a public sector, now if you ran your own private prison than you might decide who’ll get fried and who will have the desert for being good. Other than that extreme systems always have loopholes and to play with the possibility of executing an innocent individual is very dangerous.

 

Living with your crimes is a severe punishment on it’s own, being executed never fulfills the prophecy of Karma. Just watch 21 Grams and perhaps you might understand.

1) The really sick ones, who kill and rape just for fun, confess most of the time, because they are proud of their work.

 

2) I don't know about America exactly but here in Holland murderers are very often labelled ' criminally insane' and put in a clinic. For about four years.

One man released from such a clinic killed another person the SAME NIGHT he was released. I don't think we should be running this risk.

 

3) Sure innocent people die. But innocent people are also in prison for 30 years. I think this scars them more than death.

[Anileve]

3) Sure innocent people die. But innocent people are also in prison for 30 years. I think this scars them more than death.

Gurgen jan, perhaps I might be wrong since I am not an expert in the Psychology of the dead, but I don’t think that the dead could feel the impact of the scars… Death is the ending road, that is as severe as it can get.

 

I think if the choice was to be made between serving a 30 year sentence for a crime not committed and being executed, a person would chose 30 years.

[Sip]

If I were over 40, I'd chose death, unless I could get a internet connection in prison.

[Dan]

If I were over 40, I'd chose death, unless I could get a internet connection in prison.

lol me too, Sip.

[vava]

If I were over 40, I'd chose death, unless I could get a internet connection in prison.

That's the sad part - you can.

[gurgen]

See?

 

Most people whould choose death instead of 40 years in prison.

Some thing are worse than death, e.g. spending 40 years in fear with the worst scum on earth.

But then again opinions will always differ on this issue.

Edited December 10, 2003 by gurgen

[sev-mard]

I think i'd mentally crack doing 40 years, i'm only 26! That concept is unfathomable. I'd interested though in the psyche of prisioners doing "Life" the human mind has the ability to adapt to the most adverse of conditions and just make them reality.

[Sasun]

See?

 

Most people whould choose death instead of 40 years in prison.

not really. how come prisoners with life sentence don't kill themselves? or how come they would 'mind' being killed ?

[sev-mard]

Because even if you're not scared of death per se, you still don't know what it is/going to happen, so why rush into it? <_<

Thats what I think, they just make that Life their reality and deal with it.

[Dan]

w.r.t initial question about death penalty... i'm not decided on the issue, so i say give the prisoner the choice of death or life imprisonment... or something along those lines.. just my 2 cents.