-=VAHE=- Posted September 15, 2002 Report Share Posted September 15, 2002 What The Hell are You Talking about. Have you gone crazy or something. Are you the most stupid person in the world. When was the White house mentioned or your looks or the power structure of the Armenian Clergy. Are You Crazy we were talking about a total different Subject you idiot. Since you see you are wrong ,like a moron you write something not even related to the topic to keep your self from being made an idiot out of. Your the pure example of a Fascist. Youll make ridiculous statements and you repeat and repeat them until people listen to some stupid moronic propaganda. OH MY GOD You have freaking problems im not wrtiting anymore because your a plain Idiot and everytime you talk I have to call you out on how stupid you are. Call me Mr. Traditional Armenian. Theres nothing wrong with being one. Your definiton of a Traditional is anyone who disagrees with you. Your like a damn Nazi just dont talk if you see there is no more room to Argue and make this any longer then it should be. Sents anasun kyankume chem thesel. Es koratsa oo khupnuvats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigrannesIII Posted September 15, 2002 Report Share Posted September 15, 2002 1)Harut is exactly right. They can say whatever they want, but because I'm conservative, I can't say whatever I want. 2)THOTH, you are hypocritical in that regard. Very. I'm not allowed to dislike gyotner because of their choice, but you can hate communists because of their lifestyle?? 3)Don't compare the 1860's to present-day homos. Blacks are born with black skin. Homos are born normal, but chose their weird lifestyle for a reason. Black people never invited harrasment, but gays do. Especially with those sick parades. 4)Hagarag, you are already victim of the white genocide. Vahe is the type who undermines it. Your liberal views are the type that will unwravel us and finish us off. Vahe's type (and mine)have been around for a very very long time. If you asked Antranik ***** his thoughts on subjects, I guarantee you he would almost always side with Vahe and against you (if he didn't just shoot you in the head first). Also, Hagarag, anyone can write a story about Jesus. And I also doubt anyone has done that much extensive research on Armenian genetic lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted September 15, 2002 Report Share Posted September 15, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Vahe G.:... Have you gone crazy or something. Are you the most stupid person in the world... you idiot...like a moron ... your a plain IdiotDear Vahe ... I will again try to put this as a "friendly reminder" It is perfectly fine if you dislike someone or you don't agree with their opinions. However, it is completely WRONG to turn things into personal attack and name calling. Please refrain from childish name calling and please restrain your arguments to the intellectual level. That is the ONLY way to "win" in my opinion (and I think most would agree) ... however, the forum does have rules which strictly forbid such actions. quote:... everytime you talk I have to call you out on how stupid you are. Call me Mr. Traditional Armenian. Theres nothing wrong with being one.There certainly is NOTHING wrong with being "traditional" ... whatever that means !!! There is also nothing wrong if you want to make it your mission to bring down Hagarag. But again, please do it by using sound arguments, coherent well-thought-out sentences, and facts/opinions as opposed to "You are DUMB", "You are Moron", "You are this" ... "You are that" and therefore you are wrong types of posts ... and generally those types of posts usually tend to undermine your position as opposed to your oponents (this last part is purely my own opinion). [ September 15, 2002, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: Sip ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted September 15, 2002 Report Share Posted September 15, 2002 Going back to topic, here is my problem with homosexuality ... But first, let me say that I am not sure if homoness is genetic or not. However, I am fairly certain that in many cases, there are many biological and/or chemical factors that contribute to it. From very early ages it is sometimes completely obvious that a little kid will most certainly have homosexual tendencies when it grows up (from VERY early ages) ... So, having said that ... what goes on between a man and man; a man and a donkey; a midget, a man, and a donkey; a man, another man, a donkey, some baloons, and a sheep ... etc (you get the point) is none of my business. That is perfectly fine as long as I don't get involved in it somehow (against my will). Now, I think you see the problem. Where do you draw the line? It is obvious that pedophillia is completely out ... I don't think anyone would argue. But where do you draw the line between "pure beautiful LOVE" and perversion ? Gay homosexuals seem to say that their love is pure love as well ... just like what is between a man and a woman. I say, if that is true, then the line can easily be extended to cover 3 men and a midget, 4 midgets 2 clowns, and maybe a donkey, etc etc. DO what you want! I don't care ... just don't try to classify it as a "family" and don't try to get my approval for it all the time. I couldn't care less if you love another man or your german sheppard. But don't tell me you qualify as a "family" and that your actions constitute "marriage". In my book, it does not. [ September 15, 2002, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Sip ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted September 15, 2002 Report Share Posted September 15, 2002 quote:Originally posted by TigrannesIII:THOTH, you are hypocritical in that regard. Very. I'm not allowed to dislike gyotner because of their choice, but you can hate communists because of their lifestyle??No I'm not - not at all. I'm not telling you who to like and why - etc. I'm just pointing out that your views regarding what people do in their private lives are irrelevant and somewhat non-realisitc IMO. And I am admoshing you not to call them names ot be nasty etc - whats wrong with that. And I don't hate communists - where have I said that. I do believe however that the system espoused by Communisim is at its heart inhuman and I despise the totalitarian ends justify the means methods of those leaders/governments that have adopted sytems that they call Communism. And these folks kill people - lots of them - and oppress them. Tell me what any gay person or group has done to harm you - really now... quote:Originally posted by TigrannesIII:Don't compare the 1860's to present-day homos. Blacks are born with black skin. Homos are born normal, but chose their weird lifestyle for a reason. Black people never invited harrasment, but gays do. Especially with those sick parades.Actually those parades are a riot. I used to live in Hollywood and one of the most entertaining places to be on Holloween was down on Santa Monica watching the gays parade around - such a hoot! And you say that Homos are born normal - I agree - and except for some real abberrent ones (much as hetero aberrent folks) they remain pretty normal all their lives. If they are attracted to the same sex because of some genetic disposition (and perhaps there is something to this - but I don't think its entirely deterministic) or because of learned(?) chioice - I say what does it matter. If I like dogs do I get upset that you are a cat lover - are we each following some pre-determined genetic pattern - or is there a choice. Frankly i don't see where any of it matters. It all comes down to respect for other people and realizing that what is right for you isn't necessarily right for others. This is true with anything humans do (except where the actions of one impact others). TOLERANCE - I know its a big word - but its really quite a simple concept. Lack of tolerance is responsible for a great many wars, killings, genocides, etc. I don't think we can go wrong with a bit more tolerance in the world. One day you will appreciate it when others so tolerance towards you. Think about it sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted September 15, 2002 Report Share Posted September 15, 2002 quote:And I don't hate communists - where have I said that. I do believe however that the system espoused by Communisim is at its heart inhuman and I despise the totalitarian ends justify the means methods of those leaders/governments that have adopted sytems that they call Communism.Contrary to your belief, at its heart the Communist system is a much better system than capitalism, its just that human nature will never allow Communism to exist as Marx envisioned it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-=VAHE=- Posted September 15, 2002 Report Share Posted September 15, 2002 Sip jan listen to me enger when you talk with a 7 year old child do you talk to him, find out his opinion and try to find from which resourse he is using. No you dont and the same would go for Hagarag I can give him Damien and whatever homo confused etc. person facts about whatever I say just like you could to a 7 year old but it is not needed. Yes Hagarag is not 7 years old but from what it seems like the state of his mind is at that level. Sip jan no offence axper but i can care less of how you think is winnning any arguement because theyre sure isnt only one way if you read carefully what I say its not all name calling tsaveth thanem. Let me say something else my friend .There are over 800 members to this forum that dont speak at all. I Have been Reading this forum for a long long time. You guys straight out insulted Artur until he left and you Insult Tigranness and try to bring him down as you say. Im just here on behalf of a lot of people ( not all) who dont speak for their voice wouldnt be as intelectual as yours. They read this forum daily and a lot of us are tired of this Bs. You guys say your understanding of others but there are a few people who are the worst of them all. Just like Harut said about them not like communists but they demise Tigran for having an opinion of his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted September 15, 2002 Report Share Posted September 15, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Vahe G.:... Sip jan no offence axper but i can care less of how you think is winnning any arguement because theyre sure isnt only one way if you read carefully what I say its not all name calling tsaveth thanem. ...That's the only reason I am trying to prevent you being kicked out! I really see value in your posts which somehow get confused with the insults! Unlike Arthur, I see a smart, thinking individual behind your posts As far as Tigrannes, I disagree with a lot of things he says and I also agree with him sometimes (like to some extent in this thread)... but at the end of the day, there still is respect I think and we are even playing football right now in some fantasy sports site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-=VAHE=- Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 De ouraxem axper jan vore irar heth karox enk hamadzaynvenk. oo mersi vore hethevitsts nayumes buits lol I have been way too long for my health gidem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Accelerated:Contrary to your belief, at its heart the Communist system is a much better system than capitalism, its just that human nature will never allow Communism to exist as Marx envisioned it.How can it be better if it is contray to human nature. How can an ideal be better then the actual if the ideal is never reachable. And i am not a proponent of capitalism as the do all and end all. Far from it. Its outlook is much to short term and self-centered (not concerned with the benefit of the whole...though an argument could be made...etc etc) and I feel that any belief suystem that does not hold our planet - our mother earth - at its absolute center - is fatally flawed in the long run. But anyway - communism truly sucks. Its like argueing that the Genocide never happened...its just a truism (at least for those who know the facts...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Sip:I really see value in your posts which somehow get confused with the insults! Unlike Arthur, I see a smart, thinking individual behind your posts Perhaps I missed some post...otherwise I am at a complete loss here...LOL quote:Originally posted by Sip:[quoteAs far as Tigrannes, I disagree with a lot of things he says and I also agree with him sometimes (like to some extent in this thread)... but at the end of the day, there still is respect I think and we are even playing football right now in some fantasy sports site. BTW - congrats - your team is on a roll...but I'm right there next to you baby! (I suspect we will be duking it out for the the division title at the very least)...and poor Tigrannes zaroe for two - of course he faced you last wek and me this week - so not surprising. I suspect his team will do better against the scrubs in the other divisions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 quote:Originally posted by THOTH:Perhaps I missed some post...otherwise I am at a complete loss here...LOLWel, he started off by: quote:By Vahe G.Listen no one has to accept you just because your gay no one has to congratulate you on how you survived being gay. Churches dont accpet you because being Gay is a big sin . You cant be gay and be Christian. Remember buddy God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. If you dont want to go by Gods way dont expect me to help you you out. Thats like assisting a Serial killer for there is no big or small Sin.Which makes perfect sense to me. You can't go around and be a "cafeteria christian" ... i.e. pick and choose what you want. You either ARE a christian which means you do what the church tells you, or you are your own type of spiritual "good" person which means you pick and choose your way of life (but you are NOT christian). ... and of course, if you are NOT christian, does not in any way say whether you are a good or a bad person. quote:BTW - congrats - your team is on a roll...but I'm right there next to you baby!I saw it ... good job !!! I totally wiped the floor with that swede guy!! hahahaha feels good. Right now I am carefully following the Raiders game ... I have both Gannon and the Steelers defense in some league (It was not the best move I ever made) ... which makes it a completely strange situation. I want Gannon to score big time yet I also want the defense to score big time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 Steelers "D" baby!!!!!!! Damn - they are reviewing it. I have the Steelers "D" in another league and though I am ahead - I need the points (my opponent ass Phili D and Thrash going - I should be OK - but I want the points...and I'm a big Steelers fan and this game has been killing me (like last week). As expected they overturned the call...and that sucks...I still need the Steeler to score though (as I am a fan)...but may fantasy lock is gone...(too bad - then I would be 3 for 3 this week gurenteed - as well as pretty much winning (I think) both football pools I entered this week (as I one the only one entered last week). Go Steelers!! (need them to win to lock in both by my calcualtions...) As for the comments - I don't agree. I can give you a version of what it means to be Christain based on the Boble that no one could ever live up to. So short of that I think there is much room for interpretation - and this phobia with gays - and why is amy one sin worse then another - is misguided and bespeaks of one who is also racist, sexist, xenophobic and all the rest - they all seem to go hand in hand IMO. F em. WHAT!!!! I don't believe it - nw an Oakland run back...I'm crushed.... [ September 15, 2002, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 quote:Originally posted by THOTH:As for the comments - I don't agree. I can give you a version of what it means to be Christain based on the Boble that no one could ever live up to.I agree .. therefore I don't even try to be a christian! But if you want to be a member of the church, you gotta play by their rules. You can't just go and change the rules while playing. The world doesn't work that way. If you don't like it, you can go and start your own game somewhere else with your own rules. quote:... and why is amy one sin worse then another - is misguided Hey, I didn't say I agree with the rules he is talking about. I just said I agree with his position. This binary judging system that most common religeons have does not seem too fair, realistic, or "just" to me (yes, even me, the big binary geek!) You either go to heaven or hell even though you make countless decisions in your life and no one can be a clear-cut good or bad person (even by the definitions of the boble ). But again, if you want to be christian, if that's what makes you feel good, then you have to play by the rules set in place by the christian organization (or corporation )... which is basically what Vahe is saying. I don't like the rules, so I don't play that game. I hope you see the distinction I am making here (1) following the rules as they are and (2) questioning the validity of those rules. Vahe's position seems to be on #1 which I don't have a problem with. quote:Oakland run back...I'm crushed....Yah! WHAT A GAME!!!! Raiders just picked off another one. [ September 15, 2002, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Sip ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-=VAHE=- Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 THOTH Would you care to share your knowledge of the bible that we can not live up to and please dont forget the page and exact words. just curious as to what this is that one can not fufillor maybe i understood wrong then please explain what you mean and be specific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 Sorry Vahe - but I view cracking open a Bible as a collosal waste of my time...just try threading a needle through a camels eys sometime - or however its said. And you do continually work towards taking care of the poor, giving away your material wealth, acting not at all in self interest but living only for Jesus etc etc...yeah..I thought so...and of course loving thy enemy and all that sort of thing, turning the other cheek...etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 quote:Originally posted by damien:Harut,To say that being gay is a choice that some sickos make in life is like saying that you choose to have brown eyes (or whatever colour they are).yellow. and yes i choose them to be whatever color i want. today we have the power to do so (lenses). just as you have the power to choose your sexual orientations. quote:Why on earth would anyone choose to be gay or bisexual when they have to put up with the bigotry so proudly displayed by people as we see in this forum?i chose to style my hair in a certain way, which is not accepted by my family, my "friends", and the rest of my "world". i always get insulted and the rest for that. now, is that (my choice of styling hair) some kind of genetic stuff?i don't think so. quote:I suppose ducks choose to be ducks during shooting season too?yes, if they enjoy dodging bullets. quote:Clear up your logic. It clearly is not working. Or, sorry, but maybe it's just an unfortunate "condition that can not be cured these days" (whichever poor old creature from the dark ages came up with that line!).hmmmm. ok, let's talk logically.so, if that is so much genetical thing, then why don't we see as much homo/bi stuff in, let's say, Armenia as in America?? maybe because Armenians don't, or rather didn't, see, learn, encounter such things.or inheriting homo/bi "gene" is climatically impossible in Armenia. quote:Don't worry darlin', Jesus still loves you. I'll pray for your misguided soul.Love,Damien.oh, thank you very much. please do so, as i forgot how to pray long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 quote:Originally posted by THOTH: quote:Originally posted by Harut:to the ones who don't like TigrannesIII hey, aren't you the ones that tell all the time that society is most healthy with its diversity?so, why are you trying to make TigrannesIII (and his kinds) one of your types, and not accepting the way his is. yes, he doesn't accept you the way you are, but i see you don't (accept his types) either.Harut - may I ask you who it is who is passing judgement here? We are only opposing that he is saying these bad things about a fellow human who is doing nothing to hurt anyone else. Additionally, we are not only calling for acceptance of divesity - but recognition of human rights. Tigrannes is opposing this. Sure he can talk all he wants - and we would not actually do anything (physically) to him. But we would oppose any attempt by those like him to discriminate or act violently. This goes for those who act such toward women, minorities or anyone. If we lived in this nation in the 1860's or prior - we would actively be fighting against the practice of slabvery - how does this make us in the wrong? Just as now - we are speaking out against ignorant and wrong attitudes and practices. What difference does it really make if Damien likes it in the rear (or whatever) once in a while...or igf Hagarag fantasises about Tigrannes young muscular body (LOL - had to put that one in!) - well it doesn't mean anything. These are individual choices. Everyone should have the right to make them as long as (for instance) Hagarag doesnt actually touch or verbally harass pour defensless little Tigrannes...THOTHi hove no problem with you trying to express and argue your points of views and reasons. and for sure i'm against any kind of oppresion and hrassment myself. in fact, i praise any courage action of yours and others in repressing inhumanness. but i have a strage feeling that by opposing Tigranneses you (not specifically) are not giving enough opportunity to them to speak their minds.as though they are bunch of "hetamnats" people who have no right to talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damien Posted September 16, 2002 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 This reply is particularly for people like Vahe G and Tigrannes III who seem particularly stuck on the details of the Holy Bible, Sodom and Gomorrah and what it has to do with homosexuality.I have quoted an excerpt from an article written by a correspondant and friend of mine who is an Armenian man in Romania. He is an ordained priest in the orthodox church and has dedicated his life to study the scriptures much more thoroughly than I'm sure any of us have done ourselves. If it's verse numbers and referees you want, he has them, and out of respect for human intelligence I would expect any arguments against it to be equally as thourough and insightful. Whether you agree or not, it is a very good read...please take the time to read it with an open mind... Sodom & Gomorrhah...was there some homosexuality? I don't think so. The traditional condemnation of homosexual acts or practices is found in the Sodom and Gomorrah story in Genesis 19:4-11. Churches taught and people universally believed in their excellent authority that homosexual practices had brought a terible divine vengenance upon the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. That repeating of these "offences against nature" had provoked similar instances of divine wrath in the form of earthquakes, floods, famines, outbreaks of pestilence, etc. It was also assumed, therefore, that both church and state must discipline and restrain through penalties and laws these acts to ward off God's wrath. And the assumption was taken for granted the sin for which the cities were destroyed was because of habitual "perverse homosexual practices among men." How much of this tradition is truly founded in scripture? What was the meaning of the encounter of the angels and Lot with the angry men of Sodom as the J or "J(Y)ahwist" author of Genesis 19 writes? What were the gkrounds, if any, for the persistent belief that the men of the city were addicted to male homosexual practices and were punished for it? Specifically, as D. S. Bailey points out in Father John McNeill's book, The Church and the Homosexual, (pp. 42-49) the demand of the Sodomites made to Lot: Bring them out unto us, that we may know (Hebrew, yadha "to know") them, can mean eiyher sexual coitus; or to get acquainted with, introduce, welcome, or socialize with. This latter sense of acquaintenship is used 943 times, according to the Hebrew-English Lexicon of the Old Testement, and is used only 10 times including a derivative form (Judges 19:22) to denote heterosexual coitus! Moreover, the Old Testament word normally used for both homosexual coitus and bestiality is shakhabh. To continue, Bailey says this passage could also be interpreted that Lot, a resident alien (ger) in Sodom, may have exceeded his rights by receiving and entertaining the two foreigners/angels, who might be hostile, and whose authorization had not been determined nor examined. Hence the demand to get acquainted with them. But what was the sinfulness of Sodom and Gomorrah? They were called wicked and greviously sinful cities but no specific grievance is actually described! Only outisde of the text of the writer, and on a priori grounds such as ones willfullness to read a soley or predominantly sexual characterization into the passage (eisegesis) versus exegesis, or interpretation within the meaning of the biblical text, itself, is not and cannot be supported. There is no evidence here or in any other parts of the Old Testament that show homosexual behavior was rampant in these cities of Sodom and Gomorrah! Such a scurrilous pretext is dishonest and a slander to prove and impute homosexual behavior as unconditionally condemmned by God; and by implication a condemnation of an entirely different, modern discovery of a person's inherent and unlearned biological giveness as homosexual orientation. Lot's willingness to sacrifice his daughters to the heterosexual abuse and intercourse (yadha) by the hostile crowd in verse 7 is both shocking, and a desperate, spur of the moment attempt to appease and derail the angry men. Here the double meaning of yadah as both carnal and social is used as an ambiguous play on words to allow there may have or could have been sexual mistreatment of strangers, by extension, to Lot's daughters. Taken as a whole, the entire Biblical commentary seems to support the main sin to be inhospitality to strangers and stiffnecked pride of the Sodom and Gomorrah citizenry. For example, the J(Y)ahwist writer indicates in the previous verses of Genesis 18: 1-4, how angelic strangers came to Abraham's tent and how hospitable his reception was of them for food and shelter (Genesis 19: 1-3). A most significant interpretation of the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is Jesus the Christ who calls for judgment upon the cities who are inhospitable to the reception of his disciples! "I tell you, on that day [when the Kingdom of God is at hand] Sodom will fare better than that town!" (Luke 10: 10-13) No where in the Old Testement is Sodom referred to as a symbol of utter destruction identified with the sin being homosexual behavior! Among many examples, Ezekiel 16: 49-50 reads: "Behold, this was the sin of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters lived in pride, plenty, and thoughless ease; they supported not the poor and needy; they grew haughty, and committed abomination before me; so I swept them away, as you have seen." Isaiah stresses lack of justice, Jeremiah cites moral and ethical laxity. Even the Deuterocanonical books, like Wisdom (19: 13-14) identify sin as pride and inhospitality:" "...whereas the men of Sodom received not the strangers when they came among them; the Egyptians made slaves of the guests who were their benefactors." In Ecclesiasticus (16: 0) the sin is pride. Later New Testament books of 2 Peter and Jude, find the sin as "transgression of orders" between human and angelic beings. Wherever these homosexual practices have been traditionally condemned in the Old or New Testament, no mention is made of the Sodom story, which if that were the case, Sodom would have been definitely mentioned! So why is there any mention of sex with men at all? Two main factors are presented by John Mckenzie; 1. the idea of "the absolute dignity of the male sex" because of the Jewish hostility to homosexual practices. And by Peter Ellis in The Yahwist: The Bible's First Theologian, who suggests that 2. the writer is attacking as idolotry the Canaanite nature worship directed to the fertility gods, where sacred prostitutes of men and women were part of the climax to obtain a special relationship with the god or goddess so that rain and fertility would come to the land. This polemic against Canaanite idolatry is thus directed against the five Canaanite cities which are also wiped off the face of the earth, and not because of homosexual acts. McNeill states, "If the interpretration of the true sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is correct, then we are dealing here with one of the supremely ironic paradoxes of history. For thousands of years in the Christian West the homosexual has been the victim of inhospitable treatment. Condemned by the church, s/he has been the victim oif persecution, torture, and even death. In the name of a mistaken understanding of the crime of Sodom and Gomorrah, the true crime of Sodom and Gomorrah has been and continues to be repeated every day." (p.50) So in everyday terms, what do we learn? Be kind and hospitable to those about whom we know nothing, and our souls just might have a much more pleasant time on this earth, because you're right Seaphann, we only have a short time here and then, for all we know, it's all over red rover!Oh, and Vahe G., please don't call me a "moron". It's very rude and childish. And I'd rather be a dirty faggot bound for hell in your eyes than to die with people remembering "What a rude man he was!".Remember...Courtesy is Catching!damien. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 THOTH, quote:How can it be better if it is contray to human nature.Well, maybe because human nature in itself is flawed, and is not set in stone (ie. it can be changed). I am philophasising here, something I dont like doing quote: I feel that any belief suystem that does not hold our planet - our mother earth - at its absolute center - is fatally flawed in the long run. Communism is more about the 'common good' than capitalism, hence it would be more benevolent to mother nature. Its just that in the past 'Communist' countries have been more preoccupied with survival. quote:But anyway - communism truly sucks.Its like argueing that the Genocide never happened...its just a truism (at least for those who know the facts...)Well, I know the facts, I have had the benefit of living under both systems (sort of), and I couldnt disagree with your more.... Damien, quote:And I'd rather be a dirty faggot Good to see you having finally 'found yourself'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damien Posted September 16, 2002 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 TWO THINGS... 1. ON BEING A CHRISTIANCome on people! Being a christian is not a team sport which involves "playing by the rules" and "doing what your told". It is acbout the pursuit of being more like Christ, as the word suggests. This is about extending the hand of friendship and kindness to the outcasts of the world. For this Jesus was cast out of his community and persecuted, and through his death the world saw the incredible amount of good that came of his actions. He was an activist for persecuted minorities. If he sat back and did simply what he was told by his spiritual leaders we probably would not be speaking of him today. We need to follow his example rather than count the number of times we have been to church or recite page numbers from the bible like robots! It is by being passive about our faith that we lose any sense of human dignity. For those on the forum who throw around flaccid comments about communism, nazism and genocide, these phenomena are proof of the failure of entire nations being passive about their faith. Heaven and Hell are only what you feel after you commit any action towards another human being. They are the means, not the end. 2. ON WINNING.Forgive me if I sent out the wrong vibe, but this topic was never intended to be a competition to "win" or "lose" an argument. If that's what you're interested in, turn off your computer and tune in (or tune out, as the case may be) to your local sports channel. If you don't have anything constructive to say, or have any questions to ask to may contribute to the discussion, don't bother...so many of you are clearly making yoursleves angry, and in the process are forcing everyone else to read your childish banter before they get to something that is actually an INFORMED opinion. Someone mentioned the word, "respect" (was that you Thoth?). Thank you. Now could we please continue the discussion from there? Kind Regards,Damien. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 quote:Originally posted by THOTH:...just try threading a needle through a camels eys sometime - or however its said. OK - now that I am more awake (and sober...LOL) - the quote I am refering to - well the gist of it is: Its easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to get into heaven" So with that being the case - when you agree to condemn to hell and bar rich people from your church then perhaps I will agree that your stance concerning gays is not hypocritical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 Thoth, An issue concerning your most recent posts encapsulates the distortions in Christian though so eloquently discussed by Damien. The passage in the Bible should read "It is easier to to thread a ROPE through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven." The discredpancy is because some unsuspecting monk decades ago mistranslated a passage from the original (it was either Hebrew or Aramaic, I do not recall which).So much of the Bible has been embellished over the centuries amnd changed. The Bible was never a book at all. It was a compilation of books. Many of the original books included were later expunged because the head of the Church did not approve of it's content. The oldest version of the Bible, unearthed in a secret room at St. Catherine's Monastery in the Sinai, makes no mention of the Resurrection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 Yes - very good points hagarag (and I noted your earlier mention of the Apocrafia (though i can't spell it...LOL) - also along these lines. But again...human written - and then assembled and reassembled according to particualr political purposes...and then this is further distorted/manipulated by "chrches" (incl Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Morman, down to the local one on the corner, etc) But boy are you in trouble - Rich and Gay - looks like a firey finish to you either way eh? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 Hagarag - its a bit lengthy - but if your interested in the debate concerning the Resurection (not)...anyway: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dan...ker_horner.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.