A Struggle Within A Struggling Nation

[TigrannesIII]

no, no, no, nairi.... you're thinking of incest

[THOTH]

Damien - welcome to the forum and best of luck to you - I can imagine that your situation is not an easy one. Just remember - you make your own choices -its your life - don't live it by others expectations and guidlines - its your life. But please try to be safe (sexually and with the Tigranes of the world out there...)

 

Tigranes - get a life dude! (and open your eyes up a bit) - all this is nothing new - people have always had a variety of orientaions and such. Human cultre has wonderful variety (and no no don't do that Christianity is just a blip in time...one we are growing out of I think/hope). And you must accept that our current culture more or less accepts homosexuality...so what are you to do (please don't hurt anyone...)

 

Hagarag - what can I see - no one gets out alive in the end - and you won't either...

[THOTH]

sorry double post...

 

[ September 14, 2002, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

[khodja]

Tigrannes,

 

Do some INDEPENDENT research and you will be shocked to find that Tigran was a Jew.

[TigrannesIII]

the f@gs at one time claimed that 1 in every 6 men was gay, then it became 1 in 10. Let me tell you something. I go to school at one of the most liberal schools in America (we're called the capital of communism now that Moscow's fallen to capitalism), and not even here are 1 in 10 f@gs. I know that the number is much lower in Armenia, and that in my Armenian community I dont think we have one case of someone becoming golubim. sorry, but false stats aren't going to further your cause. Even if we cut off this inflated number of 10%, we'll continue to grow. Afterall, your type defies nature so it can't reproduce. And if you're raising kids, well then- that's just sick.

[-=VAHE=-]

Hey Hagarag just shut your stupid mouth dont talk. Who are you to now call the people of the Armenian church gay. Man people like you dont have a brain, whats next your going to say Kocharyans Gay too or the Kharbagh Liberators are practicing Homosexuality . It looks like whoever you get to you call him or her gay. what is this you call yourself Christian but you are the most ignorant and aragont sinner here. You dont belong here for this is a hye forum and all you have been doing has been insulting Armenians calling them Nazis and gays and Jews every chance you get. Whos side are you on?

 

Knerek dzer tsavere thanem Bayts es gyaden Nathoori khepnevela. Vay te sran bernem

[THOTH]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TigrannesIII:

...your type defies nature so it can't reproduce. [/QB]

---

Funny - given this fact (if it is such as I suspect many gay orientated people do have children heterosexually - and in many societies there have been proscribed certain periods of life for such or vice versa etc if that makes sense...and if not exuse me because I am drinking...) - anyway what I was trying to say is that given this contention of gays not reproducing - isn't it curious that there are any gays at all? I'm fully hetero myself...but makes me wonder - maybe the gay life is just so good that so many are willing to overcome all these obstacles just to be with their own...just a thought...nahhhh...LOL

[Sip]

I bet you would have said the same thing if Hagarag came and said some priests like to make monkey love with little boys. Well, surprise, surprise!!!

 

Hey, it does happen! Priests are not all holly Jesus Chirsts you know. They are people and as far as I am concerned, somewhat disturbed people ... I think they turn to GOD to fill some strange void in their lives (note, I think being disturbed in life is GOOD) ... and who knows ... maybe there are a large number of them that are GAY. Should I shut my stupid mouth too?

 

In any case, I think Hagarag is just as entitled to an opinion as you are. If you don't like his, then boo hoo! Welcome to real life

[Sip]

Well, it's not really a TOUGH time ... But I think it'll be nice one day for us to get out wearing some old greasy t-shirts or maybe mechanics overalls, drink some non-imported beer, and belch and fart the alphabet while marching down the street.

 

Oh NO! What the hell is our world coming to I had to take my car to the dealership for some problems I was having ... I ended up having to stay there for 4 hours and the TV in their waiting room was showing Jerry ... it was too high up for me to turn off and no one was around to find the remote... I ended up having to sit though back to back episodes of that crap ... One of them was a midget homosexual that was attracted to a fat nazzi type guy so he wanted to get his wife's permission (they ended up punching each other) ... the other one, I can't talk about in public After that day, I have been having some seriously disturbing nightmares http://zr2.cs.ucla.edu/Sip/zr2/barf.gif

[khodja]

Damien,

 

If you think that it is hard being gay, try being bi-sexual. Other than the time that I was monogamous with my ex-wife and a monogamous short-term relationship with another woman, an odar, I have been celibate for the last 20 years, mainly due to fear of HIV.

 

Those who have posted here are just ignorant. I can tell you that you are not alone. I am not at liberty to reveal the identities, but I can assure you that your "condition" is found at the highest levels of Armenian society. I was just shocked at what I found out at a tender age. One of the most revered Armenians was a bi-sexual. He is known among Armenians worldwide. I do not reveal this as a sign of respect for his children and grandchildren.

 

If this was not part of God's plan, why has it occured throughout history? I am celibate and have not had any sexual relations except in a married sitiuation and in a committed heterosexual relationship. My attraction toward women is accepted, my attraction toward men is not. Even though I do not practice homosexuality I am still hated. Whether this condition is innate or caused by sexual advances by Catholic priests at a tender age is immaterial. These jackasses will hate you not for what you do but for what you are.

[nairi]

How about using (extra thick) condoms?

[khodja]

Nairi,

 

Do you realize that The US Centers for Disease Control just found cases of West Nile Virus to have been spread by organ transplants? Did you know that it takes many years for Mad Cow Disease to show up in patients? Condoms are not foolproof, and what about the total experience? Any sharing of bodily fluids can spread disease. Do you suggest a clinical sexual experience? HIV is only one disease. What else is looming out there now that the world has become one due to advanced transportation and migrations? For your information, these and other diseases take up to 20 years to show symptoms, just like HIV. Unlike HIV they may possibly be spread by kissing.

[Azat]

That's nothing. you should see all the crap I get from women when I am premature. Oh, oops, this is a different subject.

 

in all seriousness, I actually do not think that anyone is having any more hard time than anyone else.

[Azat]

Holly cow.

 

Sip, I think Hagarag wants to be a computer geek like us.

 

Hagarag jan, why would you do that to yourself for 20 years. There are ways to prevent HIV and while celibacy is one way, it for sure is not the fun way.

[Nvard]

Richard jan,

Don't even think about Tigran Medz being a jew.First of all he wasn't.He was the nephew of Artavazd I (his brother's son).His grandpa was Artashes I.Are you people trying to say that they were Jews too? His mother and his wife were Parthians(King Mithridat's sister and daughter),No doubt.

Even if he was Chinese.Who cares?The king is has only the nationality of his country.Most Europian kings did not and do not have their country's nationality.The Russian kings Romanov dynasty was almost pure German.So?

[khodja]

Vahe G.,

 

You have OBVIOUSLY not read my posts. To be a "sinner" you have to commit sins. The only sex that I have had in the past 20 years was with my ex-wife during a marriage and once or twice with a girlfriend that I had been dating for an extended period of time. Are you stating that my bi-sexual orientation without homosexual acts taking place makes me a sinner?

 

As for my other comments, they have come from years of reading in the areas of history, church history, genetics and geography. You have been fed the standard historical line developed during the 19th century for Armenian nation-building purposes. Much of this is myth.

[damien]

Harut,

To say that being gay is a choice that some sickos make in life is like saying that you choose to have brown eyes (or whatever colour they are).

Why on earth would anyone choose to be gay or bisexual when they have to put up with the bigotry so proudly displayed by people as we see in this forum?

I suppose ducks choose to be ducks during shooting season too?

Clear up your logic. It clearly is not working. Or, sorry, but maybe it's just an unfortunate "condition that can not be cured these days" (whichever poor old creature from the dark ages came up with that line!).

Don't worry darlin', Jesus still loves you. I'll pray for your misguided soul.

Love,

Damien.

[THOTH]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Harut:

to the ones who don't like TigrannesIII

 

hey, aren't you the ones that tell all the time that society is most healthy with its diversity?

so, why are you trying to make TigrannesIII (and his kinds) one of your types, and not accepting the way his is. yes, he doesn't accept you the way you are, but i see you don't (accept his types) either.

---

Harut - may I ask you who it is who is passing judgement here? We are only opposing that he is saying these bad things about a fellow human who is doing nothing to hurt anyone else.

 

Additionally, we are not only calling for acceptance of divesity - but recognition of human rights. Tigrannes is opposing this. Sure he can talk all he wants - and we would not actually do anything (physically) to him. But we would oppose any attempt by those like him to discriminate or act violently. This goes for those who act such toward women, minorities or anyone. If we lived in this nation in the 1860's or prior - we would actively be fighting against the practice of slabvery - how does this make us in the wrong? Just as now - we are speaking out against ignorant and wrong attitudes and practices. What difference does it really make if Damien likes it in the rear (or whatever) once in a while...or igf Hagarag fantasises about Tigrannes young muscular body (LOL - had to put that one in!) - well it doesn't mean anything. These are individual choices. Everyone should have the right to make them as long as (for instance) Hagarag doesnt actually touch or verbally harass pour defensless little Tigrannes...

[-=VAHE=-]

hey Damien what the hell are you talking about. First of all lets take gangmembers for example. Are they born Gangmembers also? Cmoon why would they join a gang then to be shot at or end up in jail. You know why because that lifestyle is apealing to them just as yours is to you. No noone is born that way. You moron what God are you preying to. It sure isnt the God we Christians believe in for you cant be Gay and be Christian. Thats the most ridiculous thing Ive heard. Hagarag you idiot what Historical line what are you talking about. where do you get these books from that noone has ever read before. Do you write them yourself? Hagarag just ask your self this Question. How am I contributing to the Armenian Cause and the Armenian people. personally I think your life was so scrwed up from the beggining that you have no other choice to not be. You should be talking a to a shrink about this stuff and these molestations that happened to you. Remember just ask yourself that question and for about two hours sit and think and just maybe something might pop up in your head then you can come back write some lies for the absence of the answer of that question.

 

yete menk srants thekhenere chudenenk. ove gudeni

 

[ September 15, 2002, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Vahe G. ]

[khodja]

Vahe, I suggest that you read the apocrypha and the Gnostic Christian texts that were unearthed in Egypt. They show that Jesus had a wife. The true heir to the British throne (not the German pretenders who now hold it, nor the German/British/Armenian pretender who will soon take it), recently wrote a geneological text showing that much of European royalty are direct descendants of Jesus. The Gnostic texts allude that the 12 disciples were an odd bunch, being jealous of Jesus affection for his wife. That smacks of homosexuality/bi-sexuality. Obviously the paedophile priests of the Catholic church consider themselves Christian. I can assure you that this orientation does not stop at the parish priest level but permeates the hierarchy.

 

As for the Tigran information in was in a book written by Bernard Lewis BEFORE he turned on the Armenians, when he was our ally in his earlier days. What did Armenians say or do to him that turned him into one of our most powerful enemies?

[Harut]

to the ones who don't like TigrannesIII

 

hey, aren't you the ones that tell all the time that society is most healthy with its diversity?

so, why are you trying to make TigrannesIII (and his kinds) one of your types, and not accepting the way his is. yes, he doesn't accept you the way you are, but i see you don't (accept his types) either.

[Harut]

to hagarag

 

if you say one more time that Tigran The Great II was jew, i'd ask you to send me some of those books that state that.

 

yes, i agree that the latter Tigrans (IV...) could have been jews (because they were not from Artashesian Dinasty, but were put up by Romans) but to say that Tigran the Great II was jew (not his father, not his grand-father, not Artashes I himself, etc....) is just radicolous.

[Harut]

and about homosexuality

 

as open-minded as i am (or at least think i'm) i still don't accept homo(/bi)sexuality to be a healthy way of life.

i don't mind having a homo next-door neighbour, but to justify and support them is just absurd to me.

 

i see those kinds of people, and just laugh at them, as how waird of life they had to become such. and no i don't believe that some are born with homo/bisexual orientations.

 

to justify them by saying that it was common at some time in the past (which i know it was, esp in Greece) is just as absurd. and it's funny to see that some "liberal/progressive" people do that.

 

and to be clear, no, i don't base my dislike of homosexuality on Christianity, as i don't consider myself to be religious (i haven't been in church, lit a candle, said a prayer, etc for ages).

 

oh, btw, how come almost all (or at least the ones i encountered (not sexualy ) or heard about) have having sex as the first priority of their life? how healthy society can this kind of people make up...

[-=VAHE=-]

Listen buddy your too gullable to BS. If you want truth read the bible. Many people can do amazing things and suddenly unearth this and that. Listen to me Bernard Lewis wasnt our ally and suddenly now hes our enemy. He was our enemy and nothing changed. If he was our ally why would he insult us with calling one of our leaders jews. You know why because he is trying show people that Armenians were led by Jews. You see how smart jews are that they have you campaigning for them in life just take a step back and think what your doing and dont forget to ask yourself that question. Also from what it looks like your saying homosexuality is pretty much ok now ,which is wrong. You know hagarag I think you beleieve all these lies because you have no other form of hope and all this Revisionist History apeals to you a lot.

[khodja]

Keep laughing Mr. Traditional Armenian. WE will crush you. I have alot of hope. I am extremely healthy and young for my age that even women in their early 20's flirt with me regularly. The moral midget who sits it the White House will not be re-elected in 2004. His cohorts will lose the Congress this year as the American public now KNOWS that his buddies, "Kenny Boy." and other are all a bunch of corporate crooks. I see right through him that the Iraqi initiative is a political ploy for the Republicans. This initiative could have been commenced months ago, but was delayed solely for political purposes. If we can not moderate the views of the Armenian clergy and the Armenian power structure we will sit idly by and let the Armenians destroy themselves. They are doing a good job of it in the ROA. The White Genocide is alive and well thanks to Armenians like you Vahe. WE will undermine the likes of you, because this is the ONLY way that Armenia and Armenians will survive. Either you become part of the mores of Western Europe or our nation will die. Put aside your detrimental traditional mores and join the West.