A Struggle Within A Struggling Nation

[THOTH]

Some excellent commentary about Biblical errors and inconsistancies...

 

http://www.ffrf.org/lfif/contra.html (this one is the most straightforward presentation and easist to get for those not so scholarly inclined...)

 

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/the...y/errancy.shtml

 

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/don...gan/index.shtml

 

oops - almost forgot this one:

 

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/pau...radictions.html

 

[ September 16, 2002, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

[khodja]

Thoth,

 

I do not consider myself rich by any stretch of the imagination. I held a low-level government job before I retired at 50. My father was merely a journeyman engineer for a defense manufacturer. You have to go back two generations to find the colossal wealth, but it was all confiscated by the Turks. My grandmother only got out with the clothes on her back, two small children to feed and no husband (He was prominent enough to warrant a bullet).

 

I do not even consider my self Gay. Statisticaly I have had many more and more lasting relationships with women than I have had with men, and have not done anything with a man for over 20 years. Is a bi-sexual orientation per se sinning?

[THOTH]

Hagarag - just joking with you...though I think your cardinal "sin" is most likely Pride (but of course that puts you in good company...Lucifer #1 and many others of course (nearly every Armenain really...)

 

Your story of lost wealth is much as mine - cest la vie I guess. My family was once patron of Gomidas and he voice totured my Grandmother. My Great Grandfather actually only left Turkey (Istanbul) in the late 1950's after his wife passed away....and he was forced to leave all his great wealth behind (though at least some he bequeathed to the church...)

[khodja]

Thoth,

 

I wonder when some author is going to document all this. When I tell Armenians who my family was, they laugh and say that ALL Armenians claim that their families were wealthy in the Old Country. Mine, however, are actually documented in historical journals. My brother and I are so odar-ized that no one knows and no one cares. Armenians only care about what they see right under their noses. I am sure than most Armenians do not consider my brother or I to be Armenian.

[THOTH]

Well Hagarag - my advice is that it isn't really worth getting hung up about. You have your one life to live and you must make the best of it. (and if you are really as studly as you make yourself out to be - even at age 50 or whatever - what is your excuse for celibacy..I mean come now - was the sex really that bad? LOL

 

Oh and here is another: The absurdity of Christianity:

 

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mic...ty_absurd.shtml

[khodja]

Thoth,

 

I am not studly, or built, I just look like a 30- something Beverly Hills 90210 character some 20 -odd years younger than I am. As for the celibacy it is easier than having to explain my bi-sexuality to a woman lover, as I believe in total honesty in any relationship. I have found a few exceptional women who are not frightened by this, but these are few and far between.

[THOTH]

Well OK - thats what I meant..your claims to looking youthful. Actually my brother in law who is in his mid 40s looks the same...and is very studly - as he works out and such...even to the point where he recently won several footraces with an NFL kick-off return guy who was 1/2 is age - blew the guy away....of course after 3 races the other guy was still running just as fast and my BiL had just about had sit...still.

 

Anyway - your excuses sound pretty lame...I mean masturbation ain't that good - is it? LOL

 

[ September 16, 2002, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

[khodja]

Thoth,

 

I guess I was traumatized in the early 80's. A drug interaction was misdiagnosed as AIDS. Later tests including a Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR)test showed that I never contracted that virus. I insisted that my ex-wife go through tests before we were married as I personally saw beautiful young models and actresses dying of AIDS in the early 80's. One of these women had been dating a super masculine celebrity, who also died of AIDS.

[THOTH]

woah - well I can see how this would affect one...but still its been 20 years? And what is this interest in guys now - some death wish? You seem one of the narcisitic types I guess - I'm trying to figure the attaction - why guys...I don't understand it myself - gals are just so....sexy - you know what I mean - I mean just in every way...and guys...well...hm (just the opposite IMO) - but heh - I would never tell you what you should do or be attracted to or whatever (just no underage...and I am also against cruelty towards animals..LOL)

 

[ September 16, 2002, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

[Sip]

Harut jan ... I think it is because it is a lot more frowned upon in Armenia than in the US. So, many don't "come out". In addition, of course many simply believe it is unnatural and WRONG and they dismiss it as a "sickness" ... but if they were in a place like US, they would probably "come out of the closet". In Iran if you "come out", I think they cut off your balls (or worse)... so obviously you have far less than in the US for example.

 

Again, I am NOT saying it is genetics ... but I am pretty certain in many cases it is biological and/or chemical. Common ... you can tell most of the time just by looking at how they walk, talk, and behave ... it's not all "learned" ... at least I don't think so... and homosexuality has been around for a VERY long time so it's not just a product of the "western" world... which leads me to believe that it goes a lot deeper than just "pop culture".

 

[ September 16, 2002, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: Sip ]

[khodja]

I see that the discussion here is back to standard ways of approaching this issue. There are heteros and homos, e.g. heteros deal with and are dealt with in a certain way, homos deal with other and are dealt with in other ways. These are gross simplifications. NOBODY in a position of power wants to touch these issues because they might be implicated as having homosexual tendencies. The big joke is that the church which is the foundation of all Christianity, is rife with homosexuality and always has been. In fact the Church's wealth has been built upon homosexuality, because homosexuals will leave their wealth to the Church not their non-existent children. It is all a sham to increase Church wealth.

[THOTH]

Hagarag - did you forget to take your meds again? OK - sure not so simple I agree - and i'm sure/I know that their are plenty of folks (male & female) attracted to both sexes - so traditional lables don't fit I agree...and sure - seems like there have been homosexuals present in official(Christian) circles for some time...but to say the entire church (Catholic? Armenian? not sure who your refering too) has been founded on homosexual wealth...I think thats quite a stretcth...and your beginning to sound a bit shrill here (again)....

 

[ September 16, 2002, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

[khodja]

Thoth,

 

I was referring to the Catholic Church. Why would the hierarchy of the Church bury the facts about Jesus marriage? What ends would that serve other than pecuniary? As for meds, I have not taken ANY form of medicaton for many, many years. I do not support the corrupt worldwide medical establishment.

[Nvard]

Come on people,

Very very few are actually BORN gay.They are real gays.For example a woman inside but a man outside.

Most people that claim to be gay today are not real gays.Probably it has become kind of fashionable.But i have to agree..those parades are very very annoying.

[nairi]

Who says you have to join them?

 

Re: Holland: It is legal for sexual minorities to practice their relationship in public. It is illegal to utter anti-sexual minority ideologies, especially those encouraging extermination of sexual minorities.

 

The irony: A Dutch MP was sent to jail for a day for publicly preaching that homosexuality is a psychological illness that needs to be cured.

 

Less than a year later, a Dutch Imam, expounded that homosexuals should be stoned to death. Although there are still people who harass him, he was never convicted for his crime. Why? Respect for cultural differences.

[Accelerated]

LMAO! . I wish MJ were here, he would have come up with some hillarious one-liner.

[-=VAHE=-]

OMG what has the world come these days. WOW

[wh00t]

I am so happy that I am a child of a country like Canada and not of the Middle East. I can't even imagine how I could stand living within the framework of ultra-conservative ideologies that are found in that area, which includes Armenia. Even the United States is often a little too backwards for my tastes considering the massive quantity of religious zealots that continue to significantly influence US society.

 

Are we still demonizing homosexuals and bisexuals and sentencing them to eternal damnation? What century are we living in?

[khodja]

Vahe G.

 

READ YOUR BIBLE, HEGHPAYR!!!!!!!

 

It is prophesied that in the last days that men will turn to men and women to women.

 

You chose, at the feet of Lord, God to revisit this place during this time of the last days, difficult times. It is not in your consciousness, but you wished this to raise your spirit to a higher plane. You are living in a very critical era.

 

Realize that there is Heaven and there is Hell. What you don't realize is where you are right now IS Hell!!!!!!!!!!! You have chosen to be here now for the advancement of your soul.

[khodja]

YEGHPAYR, Not HEGHPAYR. My FINGER did not hit the correct key.

[khodja]

wh00t,

 

The sooner the majority of Armenians come to understand than alternative sexual orientation, issomething that has been with us since the beginning of mankind, the sooner ALL of us can work toward our common goals. The impetus should come from the leaders of the churches to moderate their policies. This may create problems for the ROA, however, as the only nation more moderate on this issue which borders it is Turkey. In Iran, foe example, I believe such persons are executed.

[khodja]

Thoth,

 

For all your tolerance I really do not expect you to understand any of this, just as I don't expect Gays to understand it either. As for your death wish comment, that is precisely why I will not do anything with a guy, and am EXTEREMELY careful when I do anything with a woman. Since you are not there, so to speak, this is all incomprehensible to you. If women are satisfying to me why my wish also for the other. If I could explain it in scientific terms, I would receive a Noble Prize. As for my molestation by a priest as a child, I think that the priest sensed something here and acted upon it, that it was already there before I was violated. But surely, the ignorant religious BS that some spew here is not the answer.

[THOTH]

agree 100% with your last comment. And I can't calim to understand you or others who have had similar experiences (molestation, loss of parent early [though just 20 min ago I was crying about my dad when it dawned on me he has been dead for over 6 years....can't believe it] - or the AIDs scare. I've slept with some pretty promiscuous women in my time (seems like another life ago...LOL) and did have some worries (but AIDs was a gay thing then...remember?) - but nothing negative every came of it (all positive! - sex always has been for me...which is why I can't understand people avoiding it I guess....LOL)

[Harut]

Sip jan, i don't think that US is more liberal that is why more people "come out of closet". but i think that US is more liberal that is why more people choose that kind of lifestyle.

 

i still think it is more of social issue that biological.

just like in ancient Greece, women were considered second-class (if even that much) people, so men rather chose other men.

just like for preasts, the "0" (like you described it ) of women is inaccessable that is why they trun to the "0" of young boys.

just like the life in US is more tolerating that is why many choose the gay life.

 

of course, the biology plays a role here too. such as this, the kid is too shy (mostly biological) to talk to girls, and he spends his early years talking to boys only, and eventually ends up gay.

but it's not as dramatic, unchangable, out of their will, as demien is describing it, by comparing it with eye color.

 

of course, this is just my opinion. and if you or others can prove me wrong, i'll be more than happy to change my mind.

[THOTH]

Harut -

 

Whats funny is that most all of the gay guys that I know have lots of women friends and interact well with women (making me envious at times - as they were not in [potential] pursuit they were relaxed and the gals were more relaxed with them (just my observation) - more so then most straight guys - funny that...