Nvard Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 I have met way too many Armenians that shocked me recently.I've always been sure that Christianity had strong roots in our culture and everyday life.Well, i can talk about it for ages, just don't have time:)Well in one frase The Armenianthat is not Chritian is not an Armenian for me.So, I have met two Armenian girls that are Muslim!They changed their religion for different reasons, but both are just sick!I can not and will not understand that!For me, they better shut up nad hide their heritage.shame for our history your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 I hope they realize that after their change, they are literally worth less than they used to be. I am not an islamic expert but from what I have been able to understand from the religeon, women are supposedly worth less than a man. But I have to say that "Muslim Armenians" sounds almost as strange to me as those "Jews for Jesus" people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 My thoughts? Vala, Armenians would do me a great favor if they killed themselves as soon as possible. As for being worth less Sipan, I assume you haven't observed Christianity very closely. [ April 03, 2003, 05:09 AM: Message edited by: nairi ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 By the way, there are those who claim that Islam doesn't degrade women and that Islam is a peaceful religeon ... But then we all know there is the fantasy world of "what is supposed to be", and then there is the harsh reality of "what is". MJ had posted a long thread about what Islam is supposed to be, which I think provides some very interesting reading HERE but how close that is to reality of what Islam actually is, it's up to debate I guess. [ April 03, 2003, 05:12 AM: Message edited by: Sip ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 quote:Originally posted by nairi:As for being worth less Sipan, I assume you haven't observed Christianity very closely.I remember in Iran, they were worth something like 1/2 a man or something. Like 2 women had to testify in court in order to have the equivalent of 1 man's testimony. Also, the wife couldn't testify or file charges against the husband. Well, I will not argue with you about the amazingness of Christianity but I doubt you are going to tell me that with Islam they are better off as women than with Christianity!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 I don't know if women are better off with Christianity. I'm sure you remember some of Tigran and the like's posts. Mind you, I'm not saying they'll be better off with Islam. I just don't see much difference between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Sip:MJ had posted a long thread about what Islam is supposed to be, which I think provides some very interesting reading HERE but how close that is to reality of what Islam actually is, it's up to debate I guess.Sip, I don't disagree with you. But in the same manner, we can post a long thread about Christianity and find out, indeed, that the Christian reality is as far from the Christian values as the Islamic one is from the Islamic values. BTW, Nvard, I am sorry that you think the way you do. You just disqualified the absolute majority of Armenians, if not all, from being Armenian. [ April 03, 2003, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: MJ ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 quote:Originally posted by nairi:I don't know if women are better off with Christianity. I'm sure you remember some of Tigran and the like's posts. Mind you, I'm not saying they'll be better off with Islam. I just don't see much difference between the two.On some levels this is certainly true...though to some degree its dependent on the "flavor"...some are more liberal...reasonable even...well for the most part. But with Islam - I have some very fundemental (pun intended) issues...though much is certainly the same to me.... But as for these girls...who are we to judge? Perhaps they have had some sort of eppiphany or such...again - we don't like when others try to make our decisions for us...we should respect others in the same manner... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Nvard:I have met way too many Armenians that shocked me recently.I've always been sure that Christianity had strong roots in our culture and everyday life.Well, i can talk about it for ages, just don't have time:)Well in one frase The Armenianthat is not Chritian is not an Armenian for me.So, I have met two Armenian girls that are Muslim!They changed their religion for different reasons, but both are just sick!I can not and will not understand that!For me, they better shut up nad hide their heritage.shame for our history your thoughts?Three words: get a life. The Hamshentsi are Armenians, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 quote:Three words: get a life. Is 'a' a word? quote:So, I have met two Armenian girls that are Muslim! They changed their religion for different reasons, but both are just sick! Screw em! quote:But as for these girls...who are we to judge? Perhaps they have had some sort of eppiphany or such...again - we don't like when others try to make our decisions for us...we should respect others in the same manner... Our ancestors were massacred in cold blood (not on one occasion) by their Muslim overlords....most could have saved their skin by converting, and many did but the majority did not and paid with their blood (wether they did the right thing or not is another issue). Now, I will not stand for an 'Armenian' who voluntarily converts to Islam, out of respect for my forefathers alone (not including a whole host of other reasons).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 Accel: is a word: check it out here... [ April 03, 2003, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: vava ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Accelerated:Our ancestors were massacred in cold blood (not on one occasion) by their Muslim overlordsMuslims killed our ancestors, but other Muslims gave shelter to the survivors. As for those two girls, let them be whatever they want and let us accept them who they are. We will all benefit from that. Before Christianity we had a different religion yet we were Armenian. I don't see why today's Armenians shouldn't have different religions if they choose so. [ April 03, 2003, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: Sasun ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Sasun: quote:Originally posted by Accelerated:Our ancestors were massacred in cold blood (not on one occasion) by their Muslim overlordsMuslims killed our ancestors, but other Muslims gave shelter to the survivors. As for those two girls, let them be whatever they want and let us accept them who they are. We will all benefit from that. Before Christianity we had a different religion yet we were Armenian. I don't see why today's Armenians shouldn't have different religions if they choose so.Has anybody heard of the Hamshenahays?They are Muslim and speak Armenian.There has been a lot written about them, even here, conduct a simple searceh and find out.Do we accept them as Armenians?Do they care?They are probably more secure being Armenian speaking Muslim Turks than being starving Armenians of Yerevan.Do they care?Do we care?Can we accept them as Armenians regardles of what relegion they have or have no religion at all.We have subscribed to this cowardly religion for about 1700 years but we have been Armenians for over 4000 years and we will be Armenians long after we shed this stupid religion once again.Who needs religion anyway!!How has religio affected my life?Qould I have been a murderer and a cheat if I were not born in a so called Christian family?Are the Chinese, over a billion of them all murderers and cheats?Por chi kshyaysner! Lietarlly! Our so called Christian brothers in the Yerevan Province are starving. I bet you the Hamshentsis are not."Blessed are the poor", that stupid book says. I say: GET A LIFE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Accelerated: quote:Three words: get a life. Is 'a' a word?quote:Originally posted by vava:Accel: is a word: check it out here...Typical Accel, what were you expecting?How about some *ssh*les practicing their religion instead of using it like a brand-name if they care so much about it?? Do you think the Armenians of old went to binge-parties, dated without chaperons, and had pre-marital sex? Be faithful to your ancestors or let go of using the religion like a status symbol and let people do whatever they want. You can't have the cake and eat it, too. Flying bigots...... Myself, I don't really care if people claim to be of one religion and whether they practice it or they are just plain not good examples of such, whether they are Christians or Christians turned Muslims. I don't know if those two girls covered themselves up or something, or whether they observed personal modesty. However, I can't stand people who are not good examples dissing out others for their choice, given good examples are so much more tolerant. The irony. All the more proof that some people use the name of their religion to their personal ends. Now I hope we know who needs the following treatment: quote:Originally posted by Accelerated: quote:So, I have met two Armenian girls that are Muslim! They changed their religion for different reasons, but both are just sick! Screw em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 quote: is a word: check I'll take your word for it. quote:Muslims killed our ancestors, but other Muslims gave shelter to the survivors.That has nothing to do with my point. Fact is, many more would have survived had they converted. quote: *ssh*les Sorry, but I cannot be bothered desyphering your codes. quote:Do you think the Armenians of old went to binge-parties, dated without chaperons, and had pre-marital sex? Its a different world. quote:Be faithful to your ancestors or let go of using the religion like a status symbol and let people do whatever they want. I dont use my religion as a status symbol, I am a Chrisitian as I interpret that to be. quote: I don't really care if people claim to be of one religion and whether they practice it or they are just plain not good examples of suchThen what was the point of all your previous ramblings. quote:I can't stand people who are not good examples Yes, keep contradicting yourself quote:Now I hope we know who needs the following treatment:Yes - You do! - it certainly seems like you are in dire need of this treatment, then you might talk some sense everynow-and-again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by hyebruin:Accelerated! I like your dogged persistence! it was almost funny how you addressed everything!!! Well, he didn't have much choice . After years of alcohol abuse, he now has the attention span equal to that of a pickle jar's. [ April 04, 2003, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: Sip ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Accelerated: quote: *ssh*les Sorry, but I cannot be bothered desyphering your codes.Don't bother to, we're not expecting anything worthwhile from you any more than we expected elsewhere. quote:Originally posted by Stormy: quote:Originally posted by Accelerated:Its pretty funny actually, it was only a couple of years ago, that I was basically in Stormys mindset. But I have changed and become a true citizen of the Western world. I no longer care how many Iraqis are going to be blown to pieces, for me to have cheap fuel, and how little the coffee harvesters of Western Africa are paid for me to enjoi my coffee. Ignorance is bliss (mind you, its not because I have become ignorant in relation to these issues, I just dont give a sh!t anymore, got more important stuff to worry about) And I laugh at these people my age, that are wasting their valuable youth 'trying to make a difference' This is also part of the reason why have stopped posting on political topics, just not worth the effort and couldnt care less.....Yes, not only would you not be able to make a difference, but you don't have much to offer, either, never being able to tell the difference between doing something for overall good and just plain making noise for your own ego. I wonder if you feel the same way about Armenians as you do with Iraqis. Not that they probably did make that much of a difference, but what do you think brought non-Armenians from Russia, Serbia, and other places to fight alongside the Armenians in Karabagh? I wonder what Armenian goods/products they enjoyed at all to be materially and piggishly obsessed with while making declarations about motherland and religion even if they dropped everything else.Where do you get these strange ideas from? quote:Originally posted by Accelerated: quote:Do you think the Armenians of old went to binge-parties, dated without chaperons, and had pre-marital sex? Its a different world.Yeah, it is. However, next to belief in this, this, and that, personal modesty is the root of being Christian, and for someone to preach or press Christianity, they have to practice it. quote:Originally posted by Accelerated: quote:Be faithful to your ancestors or let go of using the religion like a status symbol and let people do whatever they want. I dont use my religion as a status symbol, I am a Chrisitian as I interpret that to be.Then people are Armenians as they interpret that to be. Moreover, being Armenian, unlike professing a religion, doesn't come along with a burden. quote:Originally posted by Accelerated: quote: I don't really care if people claim to be of one religion and whether they practice it or they are just plain not good examples of suchThen what was the point of all your previous ramblings.Because, genius, I don't like it when people think they have the liberty to be judgemental of others with stupid excuses. I prefer people like Sasun to people with beer-bellies on their brains who read and comprehend half a sentence at a time, like you. quote:Originally posted by Accelerated: quote:I can't stand people who are not good examples Yes, keep contradicting yourselfDitto, the half-sentence comprehension level. With Accels like this, who needs geniuses? Or have you started drinking already? quote: quote:Now I hope we know who needs the following treatment:Yes - You do! - it certainly seems like you are in dire need of this treatment, then you might talk some sense everynow-and-againYou seem to have experienced that to the utmost. Dissing other Armenians for not professing Christianity and indulging in the sins of the flesh far away from Armenia and Armenians while in the "Meet the U.S." thread you post the picture of a supposed religious American soldier who keeps a "religiously insensitive photo on the dashboard." So just what were you trying to say anyway? You're in no position to say anything, about anything or anyone. It's not only a different world between generations, it must also be a different world where you must be living. A world of people with swells in their brains attributed to beer.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by hyebruin: quote:Originally posted by Accelerated:[QB] is a word: check I'll take your word for it...... Accelerated! I like your dogged persistence! it was almost funny how you addressed everything!!! Good for you. When may we see little Bruins and little Accels running around the place, dragging their bubbles along with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyebruin Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Stormy: quote:Originally posted by hyebruin: quote:Originally posted by Accelerated:[QB] is a word: check I'll take your word for it...... Accelerated! I like your dogged persistence! it was almost funny how you addressed everything!!! Good for you. When may we see little Bruins and little Accels running around the place, dragging their bubbles along with them?you know you are a total control-freak...why don't you take some of your own advice! Ms.Regulator!(don't see moderator next to your name!) before you run your mouth, think about what you said about being judgmental...where do you get off making comments and criticisms about everyone's posts'...i guess your shallow little mind didn't realize that that was a JOKE! loosen up...maybe a little fun and excitement will help you solve your issues(i'm already guessing what they might be!)... enough already with lashing out at people in this forum! you need some forum manners...stop being so paranoid and aggressive!!... some of the stuff you post does sound intelligent, but then your temper tantrums/attitude problem make you look like a child ...why don't you grow up!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nvard Posted April 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 We are a nation, that is spread around the world.we are actually a "diaspora" nation. The majority of Armenians live outside of Armenia.But!We still are able to be Armenians and keep our culture. That lasted for centuries actually....Why?...Because we had our church! Our religion hepled us.The church united, gave knowledge, spread the culture. We died for our religion and culture.We have a bloody and very unique history. We just cannot be like others.HAY is not just ethnic deffinition, never was and never will be for me!.It's the inner ME! The soul, the heart...The Hemshi ones, will never be Armenians for me. Even if their blood is 100% hay.They are NOT! They have nothing to be called Armenians.Just NO culture. I will not accept the words HAY and MUSLIM together. Never ever.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by hyebruin: quote:Originally posted by Stormy: quote:Originally posted by hyebruin: quote:Originally posted by Accelerated:[QB] is a word: check I'll take your word for it...... Accelerated! I like your dogged persistence! it was almost funny how you addressed everything!!! Good for you. When may we see little Bruins and little Accels running around the place, dragging their bubbles along with them?you know you are a total control-freak...why don't you take some of your own advice! Ms.Regulator!(don't see moderator next to your name!) before you run your mouth, think about what you said about being judgmental...where do you get off making comments and criticisms about everyone's posts'...i guess your shallow little mind didn't realize that that was a JOKE! loosen up...maybe a little fun and excitement will help you solve your issues(i'm already guessing what they might be!)... enough already with lashing out at people in this forum! you need some forum manners...stop being so paranoid and aggressive!!... some of the stuff you post does sound intelligent, but then your temper tantrums/attitude problem make you look like a child ...why don't you grow up!!!!!!!!!!Simply because, missy, I make a conscious effort not to be a bigot, speaking of running one's mouth without thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Nvard:We are a nation, that is spread around the world.we are actually a "diaspora" nation. The majority of Armenians live outside of Armenia.But!We still are able to be Armenians and keep our culture. That lasted for centuries actually....Why?...Because we had our church! Our religion hepled us.The church united, gave knowledge, spread the culture. We died for our religion and culture.We have a bloody and very unique history. We just cannot be like others.HAY is not just ethnic deffinition, never was and never will be for me!.It's the inner ME! The soul, the heart...The Hemshi ones, will never be Armenians for me. Even if their blood is 100% hay.They are NOT! They have nothing to be called Armenians.Just NO culture. I will not accept the words HAY and MUSLIM together. Never ever..:shed a tear: Boo hoo....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Nvard:We are a nation, that is spread around the world.we are actually a "diaspora" nation. The majority of Armenians live outside of Armenia.But!We still are able to be Armenians and keep our culture. That lasted for centuries actually....Why?...Because we had our church! Our religion hepled us.The church united, gave knowledge, spread the culture. We died for our religion and culture.We have a bloody and very unique history. We just cannot be like others.HAY is not just ethnic deffinition, never was and never will be for me!.It's the inner ME! The soul, the heart...The Hemshi ones, will never be Armenians for me. Even if their blood is 100% hay.They are NOT! They have nothing to be called Armenians.Just NO culture. I will not accept the words HAY and MUSLIM together. Never ever..Will somebody please tell us where and when it was written that we have invented this stupid religion (all religions are stupid)? Who asssigned us guardians and champions of this religion, any religion? Even the Pope does not defend Christianity as rabidly as the Armenian. Let him worry about it. We have other problems. We cannot waste any more time about stupid subjects as religion. We did it for 2000 years. What do we have to show for? You yourselfe stated that Armenia is being vacated. Of course! If we place religion ahead of ethnicity tehn, by your definition we can stay Armenian anywhere we go. Try and stay Armenian in this big melting pot by simply being Christian. We forget that the Irish and the Italian et al are Christian also.Look at our sorry state. Look at the size of our country. It is getting smaller by the day. This is what happens when we substitute religion to our ethnicity. Religion is something to live by, not to die for. I will not die for any religion. Let the Muslims die for it. Let them die. After all they will inherit seventy virgins in the next world. Idiots!! No they're not, we are. Look at the lands they sit on. What are we sitting on. The cross? We should stick that cross up their.... noses.You can stay Christian. I'd rather be Armenian, with or without religion. I prefer without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyebruin Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Accelerated:[QB] is a word: check I'll take your word for it...... Accelerated! I like your dogged persistence! it was almost funny how you addressed everything!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen_Vahan Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 Has anybody heard of the Hamshenahays?They are Muslim and speak Armenian.There has been a lot written about them, even here, conduct a simple searceh and find out."Do we accept them as Armenians?Do they care?They are probably more secure being Armenian speaking Muslim Turks than being starving Armenians of Yerevan.Do they care?Do we care?Can we accept them as Armenians regardles of what relegion they have or have no religion at all.We have subscribed to this cowardly religion for about 1700 years but we have been Armenians for over 4000 years and we will be Armenians long after we shed this stupid religion once again.Who needs religion anyway!!How has religio affected my life?Qould I have been a murderer and a cheat if I were not born in a so called Christian family?Are the Chinese, over a billion of them all murderers and cheats?Por chi kshyaysner! Lietarlly! Our so called Christian brothers in the Yerevan Province are starving. I bet you the Hamshentsis are not."Blessed are the poor", that stupid book says. I say: GET A LIFE!!" Arpa, Most of the modern day Hamshens are living in Krasnodarskiy Kray in Russia and are Christians. If you remember TB brought a material about Hamshens and asked whether or not we are ready to accept them as Armenians, and you should remember what the end of that thread was - no,it seems we cannot accept them as a part of us, at least that was the conclusion and that conclusion may be done whenever you talk to armenians about this problem. Interestingly enough, about pure blood armenians and a nonsense like that one may hear mainly from armenians who have non-armenian heritage - if not their parents(one of them) then grandparents are non-armenians (this is my observation). Nvard, Before you answer the question how much the church did for diaspora you had better ask yourself what was the reason that we became diaspora nation? You know why the folks around you where you are now were always strong and big? Because they tolarated and made their efforts all for the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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