alleged "Armenian genocide"

[Marie_Evola]

If it were true it would be far better known. It is not an undisputed fact. There is no way it can be compared with the Holocaust! Jews are good people and the Armenians are notorious liars!! daygotornado@hotmail.com

[MJ]

Nice try, but too primitive. And tell your buddy his games are not appreciated here.

[elovna]

From Encarta Online:

 

Armenia, History VI, A

 

...........Hundreds of thousands of Armenians were uprooted from their homelands in Anatolia and exiled to the deserts of present-day Syria. Many Armenians perished from starvation and disease or were killed by soldiers or civilians during the forced marches. Although the Russian government and the European powers protested the Ottoman atrocities, they did not intervene. By the time World War I ended, more than 800,000 Armenians had died. The massacres continued into the early 1920s, and many Armenians fled to other countries, including Russia and the United States. ACCORDING TO MOST HISTORIANS, the Ottoman treatment of the empire's Armenian subjects constituted THE FIRST GREAT GENOCIDE OF THE 20TH CENTURY. However, the present-day government of Turkey disputes the characterization of these events as genocide, arguing that the deaths were the result of civil war, disease, and famine.

 

---------------------------------------------

 

Article II of the 1948 U.N. Convention on Genocide states the following:

 

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group as such:

 

(a) killing members of the group;

( causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

© deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group

(e) forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

[khodja]

Poster Marie is playing games with us.

[Pilafhead]

No everyone, Marie is right! Our parents, grandparens and great-grandparents must have been lying to us!

 

Oh well, at least this whole genocide issue is resolved. Nice discussing it with you all. Everyone can now go back to their lives.

[gamavor]

Panta rey, Panta...

[wh00t]

Oh boy.. I bet you're anticipating a big forum-wide dispute aren't you? Well, you're not going to get it.

[khodja]

This "Marie Evola" is a real con artist. Why does she praise Jews here but drag them through the dirt on the Serb Forum? What is "her" ulterior motive?

[MJ]

To stir things up...

[THOTH]

She is part of a small group whose hatred of Jews is their call in life. They use issues such as the Armenian Genocide to further this hatred and attempt to sway others. they see the Jews as behind all nasty things in history - including the Armenian Genocide which they predictably blame on Jews. Even the cold war to them was a massive Jewish plot. Their logic (not) is often quite amusing - but their views and expressions on the web are not. She and her cronies (she is actually a follower of ISA/Ann Frankenstein/other aliases) should be ignored. They offer little of value - you should not get drawn in by their hype. They are harmful to our cause and will only create animosity from others toward us. they are haters and cheap conspiracy theorists nothing more. They are no better then the fascist Turkish and hard-lined Jewish elements that they claim to despise so.

[Harut]

it's not correct to ignore this kind of people.

maybe we know the truth, but there are many people out there, unaware of The Genocide, who learn from this kind of people.

 

i think it would be best to try to negotiate with them and see what misled them to this conclusion.

and maybe then they would understand what the real story is about.

[THOTH]

Harut,

 

understood - your point about them being harmful to us & do not ignore - unfortunatly we cannot control where they post etc - its the nature of the internet. When they first arrived at Diaspora forum I warned folks - but they play to Armenian nationalist feeling. The fact that Diaspora is moderated now is entirely due to their presence. I have tried to reason with them - I would be happy to repost some of my measured overtures to them along the lines that you sugggest. The response I have always recieved is that I am a traitor (and I do admit I hold perhaps some non-standard views of things), etc followed with attacks upon my person. You are welcome to try - and your efforts may give us some amusement (their responses) - but in the end the effort is totally futile.

[Harut]

i'm not saying we should attack them and try to post everywhere they post.

 

but i think it would be good if we could understand each other. maybe they have some good (i'm sure foulse though) reasons for thinking that way.

 

and then maybe we could convince them to change their point of view.

[khodja]

They are very uncomfortable that the support of Armenian causes is growing in the US Congress. Jewish-American members of both the Republican and Democratic Parties are increasingly suppporting the Armenian Cause. This is why "Marie" wants to spit. For them it is preferable that we have less support and not have any mutually benefical relations with Jews. This is a friend of the Armenians?

[Harut]

i personally don't see any kind of support from Jews (in political and economical level) whatsoever. neither from Israel nor jews of USA.

[khodja]

Are you unaware of the support we have received from Jewish-American politicians, especially in California? You do not understand politics. Our growing numbers make it necessary for all politicians not to ignore us.

[Harut]

what growing numbers are you talking about?

100-200 housand in whole US?

i guess not even that many.

[khodja]

That is because you do not consider the America-Hyes to be Armenian. Armenian chauvinism at it's worst. There are many more Armenians in America than the number you post. Many are the product of marriages with odars.

[Harut]

i posted the number of those who can acctually vote or make some changes.

[THOTH]

Well obviously there have been certain American Jewish organizations that have joined on with Israel in this idea that Turkey is to be supported (at our expense) - and this is unfortunate - it makes them (Jews) an easy target for those (generalisers) looking for such. But of course this is not the whole story. There is the case with the Jewish scholars/etc who placed the full page add in the New York times last year supporting Genocide recognition and I know of Jews who have written Congress persons (like Cheryl Kagan) protesting their words that were not supportive of Armenians etc.

 

It is a mistake to lump Jewish people and groups into one block and say "they" do/say this etc - its just not that way - anyone who says this does not personaly know Jewish people - thats all I can say.

 

The Maries of this world are just Jew haters - their hatered and depravity in this regard go so far beyond the norm - you could not imagine. they have advocated a new Genocide against the Jews, post pictures of Zyklon gas canisters and talk of making them into cat food and such. (I ask is this the type of behavior from someone who is truly sensitive to the Genocide of Armenians - can one really be so callous about Jewsih victims whose fate/experience was so similar?) Sure, anyone might have a good point here and there (that yes certain Jewish groups or persons, like Peres, etc) have done or said some things against Armenians - etc yes sure - but anyone with any sophistication knows it not so simple - there is no international conspiracy and such - come now. They see a Jew behind every rock - and they will go on and on ad nausuem about such. Is this really helping the Armenian cause(s)?

[Paul bunyan]

is she a turk, or some kind of german?

[ThornyRose]

She is an American Italian/Italian American who hates America because of its policy with Serbia, but she still lives there.
However, this here is not Marie/Anoush/Aboush. It is an imposter. Aboush would rather be dead than caught being even moderate/balanced/logical; how can you expect her to go to the other [equally disgusting] extreme?

Hello, guys (and gals). I am back from vacation.

[ August 24, 2001: Message edited by: Thorny Rose ]

[dragon]

Really??? How was it???

[LithiumC4]

Stir things up? Bro? Don't even waste your time. The chick or dude stated his/her opinion w/ no basis. Are we suppose to debate that?

[elovna]

On my search for information about the origine of the "alleged Dutch tulip" just now i came across an interesting Dutch research paper from:

 

Turkology Update Leiden Project Working Papers Archive

Department of Turkish Studies, Leiden University

 

The title of the paper is:

 

Turkey: inheritage of nomadism, flight and migration

 

It's in Dutch and I haven't read it all yet, but there is a paragraph that says:

 

"The only large Christian group that had not yet been able to realize its own nationalistic ambition was that of the Armenians. The fear that also in Asia Minor the same thing would happen as before in the Krim, Kaukasus and Balkan explains for the most important part why the Osman Moslims during WWI held an 'etnic clean up' that in a horrible way cost the lives of hundreds of thousands Armenians.

http://www.let.leidenuniv.nl/tcimo/tulp/Re...Research/VU.htm

 

There is nothing 'alleged' about the Armenian Genocide and it's not only Armenians who think so. For example Encarta Online's encyclopedia mentions the Genocide as a historical fact by the opinion of MOST historians. And the genocide will be mentioned as such in the future history books of countries that want to teach their children the truth and not some evil bullshit.

 

Groetjes.