Ashot Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 Rog, here is a simple calculation for you think about, which proves the 6000 year old earth theory wrong!!! 6000 years back from today would make it to 4000 b.c... Recorded history and facts tell us of wars which took place in middle east, caucasus, and europe! The wars that took place had at least several hunderds of thousand casualties from both sides, are you to tell me that within a frame of several hundred years the population grew so much from just 2 people and they separated, and advanced so much within few hundred years that now they started going against one another? Are you to tell me that within several hundred of years they have managed to have over millions of people that they started wars across the world? please Rog, don't make a fool out of yourself, you must be more noble and knowledgable about this... if you need help to find the answers you don't have to always go back to the bible, study different points of views see which one fits the logiv of human mind! I can assure you that Sip can point you to some books that will fascinate you, and prove a lot in life!!! I am not suggesting for you to forget the bible and never look back, but if there are answers that the science can answer it is best to look for those answers, if there isn't feel free to refer to the bible!!! don't narrow down your knowledge!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) Love, devotion, care, etc. have nothing to do with faith. The connection people make between faith and these things is meaningless. You're just being poetic (and cornily so, if I may coin a word). You know love exists because it is a label you assign to a feeling you have. Devotion and care are similar and they all have their origins in evolution. The faith that people use to explain away their belief in stupid things is a totally different concept. I'm sick of people throwing around words like faith to create these strange attempts at the validation of supernatural thoughts. a + b = e doesn't prove that c + d = e... or that b = f or that b + e = r or that c + a = q. Quit that rhetorical crap. It has no place in a philosophical discussion about the truth values of supernatural thoughts. You are absolutely wrong!!!!! Love and devotion and care has everything to do with faith. For without the faith in a dear loved one, you are lost and the love vanishes. And God seeks and wants you very much to have FAITH in Him and towards your loved ones. Thus Faith in everything we do and believe in is the bases of things and our existence. Belief in love, belief in God without faith, you are lost. And the very existence of us humans is the Faith that carries us to higher grounds and or sustains us. And I believe you were debating just to disagree!!!!! Edited April 18, 2008 by Takoush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 arvestaked, do you think religion (or faith) helped bring the people (the common folks) to their senses, so to speak? for example, you're saying, that the reason that you don't kill or steal today is evolutionary not because of faith in (or fear of) god... do you think religion (or faith) is major/minor/any part of that evolution? if there was no concept of faith ever, do you think you would be in the same evolutionary level today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 The problem with religion is not that a person believes in something, its that that person tries to convince others to believe in it. Either thru force, manipulation, or tireless conversations about a topic that has no solid prrof to support either side. People have for centuries been debating this issue, whats funny though is how every generation thinks they have the answer mankind has been waiting for. Believing in things in which there is no reason to believe is a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) You are absolutely wrong!!!!! Love and devotion and care has everything to do with faith. For without the faith in a dear loved one, you are lost and the love vanishes. And God seeks and wants you very much to have FAITH in Him and towards your loved ones. Thus Faith in everything we do and believe in is the bases of things and our existence. Belief in love, belief in God without faith, you are lost. And the very existence of us humans is the Faith that carries us to higher grounds and or sustains us. And I believe you were debating just to disagree!!!!! Sorry, toots. I'm nowhere near being wrong. My words do not even resemble something that could be confused with wrongness. You're throwing me a bunch of horse crap; the love and devotion poetry that seeks to create positive connotations where there are none; rhetoric fed to people to sell religion by making it seem like it has benefits and responsibilities that are untouchable. You are wrong. Your parents are wrong. Your priest is wrong. It is terribly frustrating for religious people to have the audacity to imply that I don't have the capacity for love, devotion and caring because I am not a faith-oriented person. It's just sick. Edited April 18, 2008 by Arvestaked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 arvestaked, do you think religion (or faith) helped bring the people (the common folks) to their senses, so to speak? for example, you're saying, that the reason that you don't kill or steal today is evolutionary not because of faith in (or fear of) god... do you think religion (or faith) is major/minor/any part of that evolution? if there was no concept of faith ever, do you think you would be in the same evolutionary level today? Religion has nothing to do with morality. we have morality because it is necessary for society and that pre-dates religion. You have an inherent morality that is completely uninfluenced by your religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 Sorry, toots. I'm nowhere near being wrong. My words do not even resemble something that could be confused with wrongness. You're throwing me a bunch of horse crap; the love and devotion poetry that seeks to create positive connotations where there are none; rhetoric fed to people to sell religion by making it seem like it has benefits and responsibilities that are untouchable. You are wrong. Your parents are wrong. Your priest is wrong. First of all I am not toots, please refrain. Secondly, my parents or priest has nothing to do with this and don't assume. Whatever my intellect is considering now, it is because of what I think that is so. And wouldn't it be nice if we refrain from talking in a rhetoric language? The love in humanity and the devotion is very much intertwined with faith. as well as the faith that we have belief in God and the love of Him. If we didn't believe and have faith in God's doctrine, we wouldn't have the same ethics and mores that we have today and that we have evolved up to this point. And if we did not have love and devotion towards a partner or another human being, where are we? Love is the best part of living and existing. It is the ultimate joy of life. Yet without faith we will lose that love eventually and in the meantime we will forever live in misery. On the other hand, God wants us to love and have ultimate FAITH in Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) arvestaked, do you think religion (or faith) helped bring the people (the common folks) to their senses, so to speak? for example, you're saying, that the reason that you don't kill or steal today is evolutionary not because of faith in (or fear of) god... do you think religion (or faith) is major/minor/any part of that evolution? if there was no concept of faith ever, do you think you would be in the same evolutionary level today? Religion evolve as a reflect of a society. Religion is not the reason of morality, but morality is the reason of religion. Ancient religions were more agressive less moral, they evolved to be more moral as a society evolved. Religion survived as an evolutionary process because the reasons why it exist were human behaviors which were faviored by natural selection. The source for the belief of a god, is that humans can not concieve something which can be there without someone placing it there or having invented or build it. More particularly facing the complexity of life. Edited April 18, 2008 by DominO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) How come nobody told me that HyeForum is a church, a mosque or a synagogue? I wish I knew it way back when. WOW! It always amazes me how many theologians, theists, atheists, moralists and a-moralists, priests, priestesses, ministers, mullahs and rabbis we have here. Is there a bona fide, real priest, priestess, minister, ministress here? The Church should be so lucky. Does anyone go to church anymore? Then why all these sermons? Getting back to “THY KINGDOM COME” and “AND LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPTATION”, the Pope is in America, much gobbledygook. He has met with the victims of priestly sexual abuse and they have prayed together. This is tantamount to a mother kissing a booboo and make it all better and disappear. How about those polygamist, idiotic pedophilic morons in Texas who quote the “word of god” to justify the rape of 14 year old virgins by fifty year old geezers? Don’t they have grand daughters of the same age? How is it any different from those 72 Islamic virgins in heaven ? Yeah! Yeah! Tell us more about Astuats, God, Allah, Jehovah …that senile old bearded geezer whose “KINGDOM WILL COME”…and ad infinitum, ad nauseam. And, when that “kingdom” comes the REPUBLIC of Armenia will be incinerated. In “FIRE AND BRIMSTONE”. Is this the 21st century AD or BC? Why does it take that stupid book to tell us to “honor our fathers, mothers, brothers and SISTERS”? Or, is raping them is another way of HONORING them? PS. I have resigned from a many so called Armenian cultural associations, where at a dinner meeting all those hypocrites, with fork in one hand an knife in the other will not eat until the priest/minister blesses the table wih ՃԱՇԱԿԵՍՑՈՒ. Yeah right! Like they pray before every dinner, barbeque and beerfest, or the prieit prays before every BigMac!!! Hypocrite! Edited April 19, 2008 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 Arpa, to be fair though, we get a lot more of the "I believe in God because it makes me feel good" kind compared to the "I believe in God because the Bible says so" kind. I can, to some degree respect the first group since who am I to argue what makes them feel good? But I am still not convinced Rog is serious. Actually I have yet to meet anyone who has been absolutely serious about such a literall stance on the Bible but it seems they do exist in large numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 First of all I am not toots, please refrain. Secondly, my parents or priest has nothing to do with this and don't assume. Whatever my intellect is considering now, it is because of what I think that is so. And wouldn't it be nice if we refrain from talking in a rhetoric language? The love in humanity and the devotion is very much intertwined with faith. as well as the faith that we have belief in God and the love of Him. If we didn't believe and have faith in God's doctrine, we wouldn't have the same ethics and mores that we have today and that we have evolved up to this point. And if we did not have love and devotion towards a partner or another human being, where are we? Love is the best part of living and existing. It is the ultimate joy of life. Yet without faith we will lose that love eventually and in the meantime we will forever live in misery. On the other hand, God wants us to love and have ultimate FAITH in Him. Religion and morality have nothing to do with eachother. Religion and love have nothing to do with eachother. As long as you keep incorrectly insisting I am wrong and implying that I cannot love and devote and care, you will be toots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) Creation Museum http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2...s-now-an-excuse Arpa, to be fair though, we get a lot more of the "I believe in God because it makes me feel good" kind compared to the "I believe in God because the Bible says so" kind. I can, to some degree respect the first group since who am I to argue what makes them feel good? But I am still not convinced Rog is serious. Actually I have yet to meet anyone who has been absolutely serious about such a literall stance on the Bible but it seems they do exist in large numbers. Edited April 18, 2008 by Twilight Bark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) Please allow me to move this thread to another level. Now that that idiot from the Vatican is in America... And now we hear that the Pope is to visit the "sin-a-gog". Wearing his white skullcap, to cover his bald spot. while his lieutenant cardinals wear a RED skullcap. Is it that in the sin-a-gog culture they wear the yarmulka, in the yiddish American culture iit s known as "yamaka". Pope John got down on his bended knees to apologize to the "rabbis". How much lower on our bended knees can we get? Why is it that he must cover his bald spot when in the Armenian church men must remove their hats and women must wear a scarf to cover their pubic, , that most sexually provocaative part of their anatomy- hair. Don't men have hair all over their bodies, including that below the belt?. :oops; again.Can you see that I cannot even spell the word "public"? Is that why moslem women must cover their most sexually priovocative part of their anatomy-... HAIR? Are we talling about pubic or public? Edited April 18, 2008 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) Religion and morality have nothing to do with eachother. Religion and love have nothing to do with eachother. As long as you keep incorrectly insisting I am wrong and implying that I cannot love and devote and care, you will be toots. Ed was right. You are an arrogant Fink. And your arrogance and ignorance is showing!!!!!! Go and learn some manners then come back and talk. You are out of my league as well. Plus with your talk of saying to others that they are "corny talking and believing in love vs. faith", then you yourself is implying that you cannot or do not believe in love, devotion and care. Edited April 18, 2008 by Takoush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 Creation Museum WOW!!! I think I'm going to apply for a new job!!!! Application Developer II Reports to: IT Department Director Summary The Answers in Genesis Department of IT Services is currently seeking an Application Developer to assist in the development and support of software applications for internal use, to the end that God may be glorified as His work at His ministry is advanced through the appropriate and efficient use of such applications. Key responsibilities Gather and analyze user requirements, encode, test, debug, document, enhance, support, and provide training for internally-developed software for the ministry. Provide integration between both internally-developed and third-party software systems. Support staff in using existing software most efficiently; this may include formal and informal training opportunities, setting up configuration, developing macros, etc. Technologies Applicants should be comfortable developing in and understanding best development practices for the following technologies and architectures: Microsoft .Net framework 1.1 and 2.0 (C# language preferred), including Windows forms, ASP.net (including web services), and Windows services Microsoft SQL Server 2000, including a solid understanding of writing efficient T-SQL queries N-tier architecture Application security Microsoft Office, in particular Word, Excel, and Access Education, experience, and maturity Bachelors’ degree or equivalent experience in computer, mathematics, or engineering discipline. Three or more years experience in application development. Proven firmness in one’s walk with Christ evident through a personal life that is above reproach. – A servant with a heart that works diligently and seeks to defer praise to God and others. Items needed for possible employment Resume Salvation testimony Creation belief statement Confirmation of your agreement with the AiG Statement of Faith Please send, with cover letter, to: HR Department Send Email :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 By the way, I might need some help writing my Salvation testimony ... anyone have any experience who is willing to help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted April 19, 2008 Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 (edited) Ed was right. You are an arrogant Fink. And your arrogance and ignorance is showing!!!!!! Go and learn some manners then come back and talk. You are out of my league as well. Plus with your talk of saying to others that they are "corny talking and believing in love vs. faith", then you yourself is implying that you cannot or do not believe in love, devotion and care. Now you're just making things up and ignoring my position. I hope you find yourself entertaining. Edited April 19, 2008 by Arvestaked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 19, 2008 Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 Takoush jan - There are many things that life throws our way, it is our choice on how we respond, we have the option of becoming better or bitter - You don't need to worry, what he says can't mean anything to us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted April 19, 2008 Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 der matsun ek jermakatsnum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Em Posted April 19, 2008 Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 der matsun ek jermakatsnum? Lavner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted April 19, 2008 Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 Now you're just making things up and ignoring my position. I hope you find yourself entertaining. no, again, your wrong, its your arrogance that drive people away from you, there is nothing wrong with the context, its just the way you deliver it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted April 19, 2008 Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 Takoush jan - There are many things that life throws our way, it is our choice on how we respond, we have the option of becoming better or bitter - You don't need to worry, what he says can't mean anything to us! Ashot jan, toun lav yeghpayr es mezi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 This has nothing to do with arrogance. I already said it's not my intention to appear humble; it is to be right. And I still am. Takoush is just not interested in understanding that there is no connection between religion and morality/love/devotion/caring. It's not my problem if she ignores my points to maintain her beliefs but throwing around words like "arrogant" as if they had some kind of epistemological merit is absurd -- what this basically means is that you cannot gain an understanding of the universe and of nature by assigning arbitrary labels to arguments. Ashot, the only reason what I say won't mean anything you is because you don't want to understand it. The incorrect beliefs you, your friends and your family have always held are important to you because you feel they are important to have. And when someone comes along to inform you that they are not important and there is no reason to have them, the reaction is classic textbook stuff. And one of these classic things is to make me seem like a bad person so that you can validate ignoring all of the arguments posed. If you think I didn't expect all of this you're wrong. Edward there is nothing wrong with anything I am saying including my delivery. I expected the attempt to discredit me by rhetorical arguments because the logical ones didn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 This has nothing to do with arrogance. I already said it's not my intention to appear humble; it is to be right. And I still am. Takoush is just not interested in understanding that there is no connection between religion and morality/love/devotion/caring. It's not my problem if she ignores my points to maintain her beliefs but throwing around words like "arrogant" as if they had some kind of epistemological merit is absurd -- what this basically means is that you cannot gain an understanding of the universe and of nature by assigning arbitrary labels to arguments. The only reason why I called you arrogent the last time, it is because I have asked you nicely but firmly to refrain from using the words toots and you said it again by disregarding me. You don't have to be humble, but there is no reason to disregard the requests of the person you are conversing with; just to be polite. That's all I have asked you to be, polite. You don't have to agree with me, but nonetheless we can converse in an amicable fashion with one another without talking down or hurting each other's feelings or standings. It is my understanding that religion reaffirs and wants us to stay in the context of morality, love and caring for one another and devotion too. I choose to believe in God and Jesus, because I simply do. Though my parents were Christians; but it was my choosing to believe in it and follow it. And God is love, and he wants us to love each other amidst our enjoyment of our beautiful universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 Ashot, I cannot write any posts. Is there any reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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