LK82 Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 There was a time when man kind was not as advanced in technology and theology as it is today, when criminality was the essence of most problems in civilized countries trying to become nations of strength, when internet and television was not around to help people forget about their troubles. There was one language one could speak to bring unity even amongst the most troubled souls. No country, state, or law could communicate with a person as one entity could do on a spiritual level. States and laws are meant to appeal to our intellect, yet how can we not intellectually acknowledge that a human being is compounded of more then just the sensations of the brain. We stutter at the definition of explaining love or ghostly events, yet some assume that intellect can answer all questions pertaining to life and beyond it. In times when nations would rule with fists, or slaughtered villages for personal gain, and limited the ultimatums to ones lifestyle, many found themselves excommunicated with society, outcasts and imprisoned unjustifiably. There only communication was to receive justice not in this life, but in the one that followed; the life which no state or law can take away, knowing that his spiritual path will eventually be that which he is left with. God, is more than a theory, it is what gives people hope! It is what some need to fill the emptiness this cold and ugly world enforces on you. The daily intra-courses, trifles, and troubles one is faced with would become unbearable if you knew that the man made powers above you, men just as you, flesh and blood, born to eventually die, were the only authority over you in life and who you want to become. When a person becomes excommunicated with society, a person must, and needs to have some higher entity to turn to, whether they choose meditation as their relief, whether it be God, or Jesus, Jehovah, or Buddha. Religion is a form of expression; it’s a way to calm your soul, and your heart. I still haven’t changed my view towards religion, but since I’ve stopped believing I’ve begun to sense an emptiness in me, sometimes it’s stronger and other times theyre unoticable, though I can say that I definitely did not feel this emptiness before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Ok Rog, I think it's fair to start at kind of a high level before delving into the nitty gritty details. Since you seem to be well versed in the Bible, let me start with a few questions where I think the Word of the Lord should be fairly authoritative, accurate, and complete. So why not start on a few points on creation and move on from there: 1. When did God create humans? Is this something supported in the Bible if yes, what is it, if no, do you have a personal belief on when this might have been and why? According to the Bible, Genesis 1, God created the world and everything in it (light, land, animals, man/woman, etc) in 6 literal 24 hour days. Man was created on the sixth day of creation according to Genesis 1:26-27: “Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” 2. What is the Bible's stance on other creatures that have come and gone long before humans (assuming you actually believe fossil evidence). The Bible states that animals and man existed at the same time. God created them on the fifth and sixth days of creation according to Genesis 1:20-27: “20 Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens." 21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth." 23 There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. 24Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so. 25 God made the beasts of the earth after 1their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. I believe that fossils exist and I can contribute that to the world-wide flood that happened in Genesis 7-8. 3. Does the Bible claim God created man in his image and if so, exactly which "man" did God create in his image? Are we talking about Homo Sapien or something all the way back to Homo Habilis? Seems God shouldn't have much trouble being rather exact on this point if He in fact created it all and has passed down his word. Yes, God did create man and woman in his image. Genesis 1:27 states: “God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” The verse is referring to the first humans, Adam and Eve and since we are all ancestors, we too are created in the image of God. The word for image is the Hebrew word tselem, which basically means “likeness” or “semblance.” First though, God created man and there is a necessary distinction between God and man. Man is not independent of God, but is dependent on God. God also created man in His image. A good way to understand this is to see the difference from the rest of creation. Unlike animals, man has the ability to think, make moral decisions, be creative, etc. Man is a personal spiritual eternal being who resembles God and was created to rule over creation. 4. In order to get a better idea of what your beliefs about the Bible are, are you suggesting the Bible is literally the Word of God or are you allowing yourself some room for interpretation? For example the good old Noah story ... are you one of those that insist that God crammed a pair of EVERY animal in the boat or do you take that to be somewhat of a symbolizm by some rather imaginative story telling on the part of God? I take the Word of God to be literally the Word of God, which leaves room for correct use of symbolism. The Bible must be interpreted according to it's context and genre. I do not believe in allegorizing the Bible which is different. When referring to the Old and New Testament narratives, Creation, Noah's Ark, Red Sea, Jesus' miracles, other miracles, etc. I take those to be literal supernatural events. I do not take those as "story telling" or "imaginative." No, God did not need to cram the animals in the boat, it was big enough! And if you are one of those Bible interpreters that is going to insist the Earth is 6000 years old, I think you know what my next line of posts are going to be. Hopefully you are not entirely blind to all the evidence we have of a much much older Earth with a far richer history than what is even hinted in the Bible. I can provide you the reason I believe the earth to be approx 6,000 years old. It has to do with the dating of the Scriptures. Creation was done in 6 days. Genesis 5 gives us the genealogy from Adam to the Flood which is 1,656 years. Then Genesis 11 gives us the genealogy from the flood to Abraham which is another 225 years. Then from Abraham to the rest of the events in the Old Testament is 1,500 years. From the Old Testament to the New Testament is 400 years. From the beginning of the New Testament until now is 2,000 years. So add that up and you get approx 6,000 years. I am not a scientist and do not proclaim to be one. I know that science teaches that the earth is billions of years old. I am not looking for an argument here; I am just providing answers to your questions from the Biblical perspective. The answer to our conversation is not whether the earth is old or young, but rather which authority we accept. We can either accept the authority of fallible humans beings or the authority of God’s Words. I am willing to discuss the exact Bible Scriptures that you believe are in error. Grace and peace, Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Are you a priest? Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 (edited) I am not a scientist and do not proclaim to be one. I know that science teaches that the earth is billions of years old. I am not looking for an argument here; I am just providing answers to your questions from the Biblical perspective. I can now see how you think the Bible is infallible. If you are stupid enough to still think the Earth and humans are only 6000 years old, then yah, good luck with the Truth you find with the Bible. But don't be surprised if I call you a complete moron. Based on this, I really see no point in trying to discuss anything with you as of course you will dismiss EVERY evidence I bring forth as "teachings of science" Ashot, at least I hope you are not stupid enough to agree with Rog on this idiotic nonsense. Rog, you attribute all fossils to "the flood"? How do you explain fossils that are millions of years old? Are you seriously going to try to convince me that we are sooooooo wrong about the age of these fossils that are in fact millions of years old and that the Bible is True? Ashot, now I have a question for you ... do you think the Earth is 6000 years old? Do you think I am out of line for calling Rog an idiot, or do you think there are some statements that are soooooo stupid, that it warrants labeling those who make such statements as idiots? Edited April 17, 2008 by Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 (edited) The Bible states that animals and man existed at the same time. God created them on the fifth and sixth days of creation according to Genesis 1:20-27: One more thing ... other than the Bible, which for being so authoritative never actually seems to mention anything about dinosaurs, how come there is not a SINGLE shred of evidence that man and dinosaurs ever co-existed? 1. Are you saying dinosaurs never existed? 2. Are you saying dinosaurs co-existed with man but perished in the flood? 3. Are you saying there were dinosaurs in the boat but somehow perished after the flood? I hope you are not going to go with #1. For the case #2, why is there no mention of such a thing ANYWHERE ... not in any folklore, any story, the Bible itself anything? Seems like it would have been a rather significant point as many dinosaurs were predatory and of course many were extremely large and rather difficult to dismiss as minor details in our environments. For case #3, where did the dinosaurs go after the flood? Edited April 17, 2008 by Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Sip jan I will be totally honest with you and make sure you are not confused!!! I don't agree with Rog as his belief in God is only trough the bible, so if there was no bible there would be no god, it hides anything that we feel inside, everything converts to peace of paper written by us "the human beings", therefore I would have to strongly disagree with what Rog is teaching. On the other hand Sip jan I would not call him stupid or an idiot as that is his belief, that's what he believes, unless he starts preaching in here I have nothing against the guy, he has his rights to believe what he wants to believe!!! No Sip jan, as I have mentioned before I am more of a History believer, rather then the old or new testatements as they were taken and revised from History!!! I do strongly support the fact that Earth has been there for a very long time, cannot date it to an exact number, but it has been for millions of years!!! Me and everyone I know that do believe in god are not the so called bible believers, we do believe in GOD, and we do believe in earth being there for longer then some millions of years! When you try to find answers to some things sometimes you refer to science as it has the logical answers, but in other cases when you can't find the answers in science it is believed to be logical in connection with God! Don't get me wrong, I do believe in God very strongly, at the same time I look at science for some of the answers, both ways there is logic to it's own extense!!! Being an idiot or stupid has nothing to do with what Rog believes in, it has to do with the teachings, that most religions tend to block it's people from seeing as far back as possible. People like Rog are not at fault, it's the teachings! Rog a word of advice, please try to go back further then 6000 years to the earth!!! Just get more into history, and you will find it amazing!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 (edited) Ashot jan, I agree with you that feelings we have inside are different. But, we should not be "tolerant" of stupidity. At this day and age, in the 21 century, I can't think of any other way to characterize someone who will stand up and say "The Earth is 6000 years old" or "Humans and Dinosaurs existed at the same time". If such statements and the people who make them are not "stupid", then what is stupid? Is there anything that is stupid or is EVERYTHING ok when it has to do with someone's religion? Edited April 17, 2008 by Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Sip jan, all I am saing is he has been given the wrong knowledge, and he refuses to do some researches himself, therefore he is not stupid but lazy. It is his choice to believe whatever he wants to believe, we can't force him to believe that the world has been there for millions of years!!! How do we know that God's one day is not our million? maybe he made the dinosaurs and then made up his mind and changed it to something smaller, more creative!!! Some questions are not meant to be answered ~ however we cannot limit our knowledge and logic to only 6000 year old world, knowing many people argue that the world is older... Dear Rog, you have to stop for a minute and take into concideration that there are things that are explained by science that no religion can explain whatsoever, in the same exact way there is the oposite!!! Therefore, you can't limit your knowledge to a bible, you have to do more studying! you have to read what others say too, maybe then you will be able to express the right thought, you need more history, science, physics, you can't limit yourself to the bible, and say this is it, all the questions are answered in one bood, that is wrong, there are millions of books that needs to be taken into concideration!!! I hope this satisfies most of the questions that Sip and Rog have on the table!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 The dinosaurs were too big for Noah's ark so they were left out and they all perished. One more thing ... other than the Bible, which for being so authoritative never actually seems to mention anything about dinosaurs, how come there is not a SINGLE shred of evidence that man and dinosaurs ever co-existed? 1. Are you saying dinosaurs never existed? 2. Are you saying dinosaurs co-existed with man but perished in the flood? 3. Are you saying there were dinosaurs in the boat but somehow perished after the flood? I hope you are not going to go with #1. For the case #2, why is there no mention of such a thing ANYWHERE ... not in any folklore, any story, the Bible itself anything? Seems like it would have been a rather significant point as many dinosaurs were predatory and of course many were extremely large and rather difficult to dismiss as minor details in our environments. For case #3, where did the dinosaurs go after the flood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 (edited) Are we to assume that yehovah created the germs and the antibiotics, mental illness and antidepressants on the same day? Yes, yes. We know how Jesus cast out the demons. That He created the forty million year old ugly pesky cockroach that is still alive today, and the beautiful butterfly on the same day?. According to the Bible, Genesis 1, God created the world and everything in it (light, land, animals, man/woman, etc) in 6 literal 24 hour days. Man was created on the sixth day of creation according to Genesis 1:26-27: ==== Grace and peace, Roger Peace/shalom to you too! So! On the sixth day yehovah created the Armenians and the furks on the same day with the same mold? That he creted Adam and then Eve. Is that the most sexist statement? How could yehovah create Adam without the womb of Eve? When did "adam" become pregnant? Yeah, yeah we know his "rib". Which rib? The ones in his chest or the one below his belt? Do you know who Lilith is?** The silly adage that goes- When Jesus said "Forgive thine enemies" no one had heard of the furk Dear Rog, will you please stop reading that genesis/menesis/schmnesis "book of lies", and instead tell us the "gospel/good word" according to Jesus? I know. Next you are going to quote from exodus/schmexodus where it says they wandered in the desert forty/qarsun years. Why do people even read books of fables when that so called "best seller" is a compilation of fables, and not necessarily of their own invention? :jerry: ** WE also know such jokes like- When yehovah created Eve, he was so old that he had forgotten to count and gave Eve thre mammary glands. And Eve holding the third "boob" up asked- And what do do with this boob? And yehovah created Adam. Edited April 17, 2008 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Ashot jan, I agree with you that feelings we have inside are different. But, we should not be "tolerant" of stupidity. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 I can now see how you think the Bible is infallible. If you are stupid enough to still think the Earth and humans are only 6000 years old, then yah, good luck with the Truth you find with the Bible. But don't be surprised if I call you a complete moron. Based on this, I really see no point in trying to discuss anything with you as of course you will dismiss EVERY evidence I bring forth as "teachings of science" Ashot, at least I hope you are not stupid enough to agree with Rog on this idiotic nonsense. Rog, you attribute all fossils to "the flood"? How do you explain fossils that are millions of years old? Are you seriously going to try to convince me that we are sooooooo wrong about the age of these fossils that are in fact millions of years old and that the Bible is True? Ashot, now I have a question for you ... do you think the Earth is 6000 years old? Do you think I am out of line for calling Rog an idiot, or do you think there are some statements that are soooooo stupid, that it warrants labeling those who make such statements as idiots? Sip, There are good answers to your question from a Biblical perspective, but since you refuse to acknowledge my answers but rather must insult me, I refuse to speak with you any further. I am only willing to spend my time and effort providing answers to those who would like to have an adult conversation. I pray for you and do not hold any of this against you, but I hope one day that you will listen to people, even if you do not agree with them. Grace and Peace, Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 Are you a priest? Just wondering. No, I am not a priest. I am curious, why do you ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 Sip jan I will be totally honest with you and make sure you are not confused!!! I don't agree with Rog as his belief in God is only trough the bible, so if there was no bible there would be no god, it hides anything that we feel inside, everything converts to peace of paper written by us "the human beings", therefore I would have to strongly disagree with what Rog is teaching. On the other hand Sip jan I would not call him stupid or an idiot as that is his belief, that's what he believes, unless he starts preaching in here I have nothing against the guy, he has his rights to believe what he wants to believe!!! No Sip jan, as I have mentioned before I am more of a History believer, rather then the old or new testatements as they were taken and revised from History!!! I do strongly support the fact that Earth has been there for a very long time, cannot date it to an exact number, but it has been for millions of years!!! Me and everyone I know that do believe in god are not the so called bible believers, we do believe in GOD, and we do believe in earth being there for longer then some millions of years! When you try to find answers to some things sometimes you refer to science as it has the logical answers, but in other cases when you can't find the answers in science it is believed to be logical in connection with God! Don't get me wrong, I do believe in God very strongly, at the same time I look at science for some of the answers, both ways there is logic to it's own extense!!! Being an idiot or stupid has nothing to do with what Rog believes in, it has to do with the teachings, that most religions tend to block it's people from seeing as far back as possible. People like Rog are not at fault, it's the teachings! Rog a word of advice, please try to go back further then 6000 years to the earth!!! Just get more into history, and you will find it amazing!!! Ashot I want to clarify one point. I am not teaching that the Bible is the only place to prove God’s existence, and God would exist if we did not have the Bible. What I am saying is that there are two ways we learn about God, natural revelation and special revelation. Natural revelation is how God has revealed himself in nature (i.e. creation) (Psalm 19:1 “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands”). God has also revealed himself to every man (Ecc 3:11 “He has made everything appropriate in its time He has also set eternity in their heart”, and also Romans 1:19 “because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse).” Therefore, I do accept that inner sense of God existing. When we deal with Special revelation, we are dealing with the Bible, how God is revealed in the Bible. It teaches us about His nature and works, and the revelation of God in Jesus Christ who came to die and save sinners. That revelation of God can only be known through the Bible and not in creation. God can be known in nature, but only God's revelation through Jesus Christ and the plan of salvation can be known through the Bible. Hope this better explains my positions. Grace and peace, Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 Sip jan, all I am saing is he has been given the wrong knowledge, and he refuses to do some researches himself, therefore he is not stupid but lazy. It is his choice to believe whatever he wants to believe, we can't force him to believe that the world has been there for millions of years!!! How do we know that God's one day is not our million? maybe he made the dinosaurs and then made up his mind and changed it to something smaller, more creative!!! Some questions are not meant to be answered ~ however we cannot limit our knowledge and logic to only 6000 year old world, knowing many people argue that the world is older... Dear Rog, you have to stop for a minute and take into concideration that there are things that are explained by science that no religion can explain whatsoever, in the same exact way there is the oposite!!! Therefore, you can't limit your knowledge to a bible, you have to do more studying! you have to read what others say too, maybe then you will be able to express the right thought, you need more history, science, physics, you can't limit yourself to the bible, and say this is it, all the questions are answered in one bood, that is wrong, there are millions of books that needs to be taken into concideration!!! I hope this satisfies most of the questions that Sip and Rog have on the table!!! Ashot, For the record, I am not limiting all knowledge to the Bible. The Bible was not written to teach us about everything, such as how to fix a car, how to do heart surgery, etc. It’s purpose was to reveal man’s problem of sin and the solution for it, Jesus Christ, who was the payment for our sins. Now, the Bible does speak upon certain issues, such as creation, and when it speaks about that, it is authoritative and complete. We look for experts in those fields that the Bible does not speak about, such as fixing a car. Now when it comes to the evidence on the age of the earth, I believe that it is all a matter of interpretation of the data. One expert scientist may say that the earth is millions of years old; some experts say it is only thousands of years old. (There are many scientists who disagree with the common belief of the earth being millions of years old). At the end of the day, who is the ultimate judge of the data? Who is the ultimate expert on the data? I believe the expert in creation is the God of the Old and New Testament who created the earth and all that is in it (Psalm 24:1). I am a finite being and I do not project to know everything about how everything works. Science enriches my faith by explaining the things in the universe that God created, especially those things which are not spoken of in the Bible. But science is not my ultimate truth, the Bible is. Why? Because science is based on man’s reason and his reason can be wrong. Science is not unchangeable truth, but the Bible is. And I understand that until I defend the reliability of the Bible, my beliefs on creation will be quickly written off. Grace and peace, Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) There are good answers to your question from a Biblical perspective, Where are your good answers? I have asked you several questions where you fail to provide any answers. "The Earth is 6000 years old" is NOT a good answer to any question if you are unwilling to address all the loose ends (a few I have brought up). I am more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and let you defend your so far absolutely unsubstantiated claim. FYI, the discussion is about the infallibility of the Bible (not whether God exists or not) and so far, you have done 0 to back up your claim about the Earth being 6000 years old or address any of my questions about dinosaurs. The one who is insulting here is YOU. How dare you dismiss these important questions as insults under the umbrella of speaking Truth? Edited April 18, 2008 by Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 Now when it comes to the evidence on the age of the earth, I believe that it is all a matter of interpretation of the data. One expert scientist may say that the earth is millions of years old; some experts say it is only thousands of years old. (There are many scientists who disagree with the common belief of the earth being millions of years old). At the end of the day, who is the ultimate judge of the data? Who is the ultimate expert on the data? This is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE ... This is exactly what you sound like: "There are many that claim the Earth is round and there are many that claim the Earth is flat. Who is to judge the truth here?" or our favorite: "Many Armenians killed Turks and many Turks killed Armenians. It was civil war. Who is to judge what really happened?" Who is to judge????? How about letting THE EVIDENCE speak for itself instead of just guessing one way or another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 No, I am not a priest. I am curious, why do you ask? Just wondering... BTW, on the age of Earth, the disagreement of scientists is about 2 or at most three million years plus or minus difference for the estimated over four an a half billion years. Earth measurements and Sun radiation based measurements concord on the age of our Solar system. All scientists even those who believe in God do not question this. You can easily know that 6 thousand years does not make sense by measuring the time it took for the sedimentation of various lakes which have disapeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) You can easily know that 6 thousand years does not make sense by measuring the time it took for the sedimentation of various lakes which have disapeared. Of course one explanation is God put those sedimentations there ... just like God put 1.3 million year old human fossil in Europe. Similarly, maybe it was God that 6000 years ago made Hawaii islands close to what they are now as opposed to them having developed over 70 millions years of volcanic erruptions. Rog, the problem with your stance is you are entirely biased since you start assuming the Bible is correct while the thousands and thousands of independent scientists that have come up with these dates and conclusions about the Earth were not doing it to discredit the Bible ... so you can't claim their findings are biased simply to discredit your views. Edited April 18, 2008 by Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) Of course one explanation is God put those sedimentations there ... just like God put 1.3 million year old human fossil in Europe. Similarly, maybe it was God that 6000 years ago made Hawaii islands close to what they are now as opposed to them having developed over 70 millions years of volcanic erruptions. Rog, the problem with your stance is you are entirely biased since you start assuming the Bible is correct while the thousands and thousands of independent scientists that have come up with these dates and conclusions about the Earth were not doing it to discredit the Bible ... so you can't claim their findings are biased simply to discredit your views. I would have expected something more interesting from him like each biblical years = several revolution of our galaxy. Edited April 18, 2008 by DominO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 I would have expected something more interesting from him like each biblical years = several revolution of our galaxy. dont forget multi-universalism. by the way Hawaiian islands are only 5-to 6 million years old. and human evolution has over 400 million history, earth is 5 billion years old, universe is infinitely expanding in every second by 100000000 miles its been proven over and over again for many dacates now the question is DO YOU HAVE FAITH. be it in something that sustains us as human beings, love, care, devotion and etc.. if you look close, i dont think there is any species in this world as we know, who dosent care for one another, and that my friends is basic foundation of "having faith" or believing in "god" instinctively, scientifically, religious, or any other form.. it points to the same source, sun, god and (what ever you want to call it) leads to FAITH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 Good point Ed, faith in God, faith in love, faith in humanity and or devotion. I always thought that faith is essential in the love of human beings but the very same concept extends to God if you will and of course the love of your loved one or ones. The basic concept is faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvestaked Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 Love, devotion, care, etc. have nothing to do with faith. The connection people make between faith and these things is meaningless. You're just being poetic (and cornily so, if I may coin a word). You know love exists because it is a label you assign to a feeling you have. Devotion and care are similar and they all have their origins in evolution. The faith that people use to explain away their belief in stupid things is a totally different concept. I'm sick of people throwing around words like faith to create these strange attempts at the validation of supernatural thoughts. a + b = e doesn't prove that c + d = e... or that b = f or that b + e = r or that c + a = q. Quit that rhetorical crap. It has no place in a philosophical discussion about the truth values of supernatural thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LK82 Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 The problem with religion is not that a person believes in something, its that that person tries to convince others to believe in it. Either thru force, manipulation, or tireless conversations about a topic that has no solid prrof to support either side. People have for centuries been debating this issue, whats funny though is how every generation thinks they have the answer mankind has been waiting for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 well i agree with you, you are a very arrogant fink, read the post more cheerful, i would give you many reasons about yourself to sentimental and corny, just do not throw words right and left, you got lot to learn in life perhaps you can never understand or it has not molded in your personality the concept of love, devotion and faith if one lacks either essential foundational building blocks of what leads to faith then, result is arrogance and eventuality narcissism but eventually those find them selfs alone in the end searching. anyways, i don't enjoy sharing or talking to you, do not reply to me please, your way out of my league, polish your arrogance more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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