Rog

Yes, it is called a "pulpit." No, the pastor is not called a Der Hayr. Pastors in Armenian Protestant Churches are referred to as "Badveli" or Pastor.

Rewell, You mentioned that God is the source of all goodness, which I agree. You made the statement, "I have a faith that we are heaven-worthy if and only if we are doing good and we are obeying God's commandments with exactness." The Bible says that even if you break one of God's commandments, you are guilty of all of them (James 2:10 "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all"). What this means is that you will never be able to keep all of God's commandments with exactness. God never intended that. God's commandments are like a mirror to reveal to us that we fail to keep God's commands. At the same time, there is only one person who ever kept God's command perfectly, Jesus Christ (1 Peter 2:22 "Who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth"). Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live, and then God punished man's sins on Jesus, the punishment we deserved (2 Corinthians 5:21 "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him"). The Bible states that the only way to gain God's acceptance is by faith in Jesus, you cannot earn God's favor (Romans 3:28 "For we maintain that a man is justified ("made right with God") by faith apart from the works of the Law"; Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast"). Our response should be to turn away from our sin and to turn to Jesus. That means to have faith (believe and trust) in Jesus. Believe that Jesus was God's one and only Son who lived a perfect life and then was crucified on a roman cross to pay the punishment for sin, and then rose three days later. Trust that Jesus is the only one who could pay the punishment that your sins deserve and He is the only one who can change you so that you can obey God (Romans 3:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord"). Then and only then can you be fully rid guilt, regret, and nightmares (Romans 8:1 "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus"). I encourage you today to place your faith in Jesus. Take care, Rog

So are you defining good as doing something that you deem to be a good action? (i.e. giving $80 billion to charity). Sure, we can use the term "heaven-worthy." Let me restate my positions because I feel you are using straw man arguments against me. I will be as clear as possible. 1. The Bible teaches that all men are sinners (Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God). Therefore, since men are sinners, they are not "heaven-worthy.' 2. There is an eternal penalty for sin (Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.") So how does a person become "heaven-worthy"? There are two ways, either doing "good" deeds and earning his way to heaven, or by believing in Jesus Christ who paid the penalty for our sin. 3. The Bible says that it is impossible to earn your way to heaven (Ephesians 2:8 "God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.") 4. The Bible says that it is by believing (trusting) in Jesus Christ that we can become heaven-worthy (John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, 16 that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him). You are contradicting yourself. Do you believe actions are important in who is "heaven-worthy." Beliefs matter and are entirely relevant. I will say this about actions. They are important in life, but they are not our actions that cause us to be heaven-worthy. They are the actions of the savior, Jesus Christ who died upon the cross for your sins and mine. (Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us"). You can give up trying to be a good person and place your trust in the best person, Jesus Christ. But this does not negate the fact that actions of a Christian are important. The actions do not cause us to be heaven-worthy, but they confirm that we believe in Jesus Christ. For example, if a person claims to be a Christian but has no good deeds in his life, than his claim is questionable (i.e. a hypocrite). But a person who believes (trusts) in Christ will go to Church, pray, give to charity, help the poor, etc. because he is forgiven by God and this reflects his new life.

Ok, so let's talk about this. What is your definition of good? What do you think my definition of good is? Yes, I did state this A will go to heaven and B will not. Why? Because man cannot be good enough to reach heaven. Therefore if man tries to reach heaven by his own "goodness" he will fail. You would have to be absolutely perfect, never sinning one time in order to reach heaven. Since all men are sinners and God will punish sin, there is only one remedy which is belief in Jesus Christ. Because Christ lived a perfect life and died for you and me. He took the punishment for sin that we deserve. Therefore since A and B are both sinners, A has his sin forgiven and B does not. Incorrect, I never stated that "good" depends on whether one believes in God or not. I stated that a unbeliever can be moral. But the problem is not whether one is outwardly good, because man has an inner problem and that is sin. Once again, man has a problem with sin and that must be forgiven, or man will bear the punishment for it.

Thank you for the clear example. The problem with your example is that this is NOT what the Bible teaches. The Bible does not teach that God punishes "good" humans for not believing in Him. Nor does it teach that belief in God makes a person good. The Bible does NOT teach that man is basically "good", but that man is basically "bad" (a sinner). The Bible verses that support this are: Romans 3:11 "There is none righteous, not even one" Romans 3:12 "All have turned aside, together they have become useless. There is none who does good, there is not even one." Isaiah 53:6 "All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way." Therefore the problem is that man is a sinner and there is a consequence for sin. Romans 6:23 states, "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." God is just and must punish sin. Therefore he can either punish man for sin or can punish someone else. Jesus took the place for you and God punishes Him on the cross. God made a way to be forgiven of your sins and that is through Jesus Christ sacrifice on the cross, therefore if you reject Christ, God will reject you and you will not be forgiven. That is why we say that if you do not believe in Christ, God will punish you. Fundamentally behind that statement is that God is going to punish man's sins, and belief in Jesus will cause God to substitute the death of Jesus instead of you being punished for your sins. Therefore, you example is insufficient because the Bible does NOT teach what you say it does. If you have another example, I would love to hear it. I agree with you that belief in God does not make a man good. I have many moral friends who are not believers. And I know people who claim to be Christians but do not live moral lives. The Bible was not written to make bad people good, but to make sinners forgiven. And those who are forgiven of their sins are to live like it they are forgiven, lives that obey God's commands.

Yes, I know that you do not believe in the Bible's version of creation. You stated that you do not believe in the Bible's version of God either? Can you explain further what you mean about this? You state that you do not know what "set the universe in motion" and that evolution is more "plausible" for where people came from. Your arguments have no certainty to them. You say you arrive at your beliefs based on observation, logic, and the scientific method. But unless you have exhaustive knowledge and have access to observe and "test" every hypotheses, you have no certainty to your beliefs. You cannot object with certainty against the Christian position because your view is totally uncertain. You may not accept my viewpoints, but at least my viewpoints are complete and I can give answers. My viewpoint explains where we came from, why we are here, and where we are going.

You make a great point about people seeking God only when they are in need. I am a Christian and that is NOT the type of faith I believe in or practice.

Sip, So what do you actually believe and why do you think your beliefs are superior than others? What are you beliefs based upon? Roger

MosJan, That must be the most interesting question I've ever received. Honestly, I'm not sure how to answer since I'm not familiar enough with multiple personality disorder. I will have to do some research on this. Grace and peace, Roger

Sip, I never said that a person goes to hell because they do not believe in hell. Although that statement is illogical because just because a person doesn't believe in something, does not make it not exist. For example, a person can say they do not believe in gravity, but if they jump off a tall building, they will experience it when they fall to the ground. To clarify my position, what I am saying is that a person goes to hell because they are sinners and they reject the only one who can forgive them of their sins and save their souls, the Lord Jesus Christ. Roger

Bye the way, here are a couple Bible verses for you to support my position. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." and Titus 3:4-6 But -- "When God our Savior revealed his kindness and love, 5 he saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He washed away our sins, giving us a new birth and new life through the Holy Spirit. 6 He generously poured out the Spirit upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior." and Ephesians 2:8-9 "God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it."

Ok, I will give you a simple answer. Yes, person A will go to heaven and person B will go to hell.

Ashot, I'm sorry if I was confusing, I did not mean to be. Yes, I am saying that if a person has not committed the known "bad stuff but has in his mind and heart committed sins", he will go to hell. What I was trying to show you in my last response is that all men are sinners. Getting into heaven is not a matter of how many sins you have committed. God does not outweigh the good with the bad. People do not get into heaven because they go to Church, do their prayers, and act good. There are many in the Church who are utter hypocrites and they say they believe in God, but their life does not show it. So how does a person get into heaven? I want to give you an illustration and I hope it will make more sense. Say you are speeding on the freeway and you get stopped by a cop. He stops you and you admit that you have broken the law. The penalty for breaking the law is him giving you a ticket. Say the ticket costs you $100.00. But instead of you having to pay for the ticket, the cop reaches in his pocket and gives you the $100.00 to pay the ticket. Even though you do not have to pay the penalty for the ticket, you still are guilty. But instead of paying the fine, someone else paid it for you. This is exactly how God deals with us. We have a penalty for the sins we commit that must be paid. The penalty is eternal death. But Jesus Christ paid the debt for us when he died on a cross and although we are really guilty, we are no longer held guilty in the eyes of God. Christ paid the penalty for us. Our job is to admit we are sinners, believe in Christ as the payment for our sins, and to live a life that reflects that. How do people get into heaven? By being forgiven of their sins, not by trying to be good enough. Roger

Ashot, Thanks for the question. According to the Bible, all men will be judged and just because one does not believe in God, it does not mean God does not exist. You asked about a person who does not believe in God but lives a moral life. The answer lies in the standard we are holding him to. I admit, there are many people who do not believe in God but they are extremely moral people. The flaw though happens when we judge based on man’s standards and not Gods. According to the Bible, all men are sinners. The Bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). And God’s standard is this, “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, has become guilty of all (James 2:10).” Sin is not just described as those big things, like murder, but has do to with both thoughts and action. For example, Jesus said that even if a man looks at a woman in lust, he has committed adultery with her in his heart (Matt 5:28). Could anyone really live up to this perfect standard where in their entire life they did not commit one sin in thought or action? The reason for the high standard is to show us that we cannot attain perfection. Since we can never be good enough to be right with God, there must be a solution and that is the good news of the New Testament. There was only one perfect (sinless) man and that was Christ. He lived a perfect life, died on a cross, was buried and raised on the third day. He lived the perfect life that we could not and when he died on the cross, he paid the penalty of judgment for us. For those who admit their sin and turn to Christ for forgiveness, and embrace him as their Lord and Savior will be forgiven by God and not be judged (Romans 10:9). If anyone could be moral enough for God to accept them, than Christ died in vain. Yes, this hypothetical man will be judged, because no man can be absolutely perfect. And if he is not perfect, than he has to deal with his sin problem, and there are only two ways, either through the perfection of Christ or by his own perfection. To summarize, the Bible puts it this way: John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Grace and peace, Roger

Amen!! I agree with you completely. May Christ be exalted and praised! Roger

Saved from the wrath of God and eternal punishment. John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." And the good news, John 3:16-18 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Ashot, For the record, I am not limiting all knowledge to the Bible. The Bible was not written to teach us about everything, such as how to fix a car, how to do heart surgery, etc. It’s purpose was to reveal man’s problem of sin and the solution for it, Jesus Christ, who was the payment for our sins. Now, the Bible does speak upon certain issues, such as creation, and when it speaks about that, it is authoritative and complete. We look for experts in those fields that the Bible does not speak about, such as fixing a car. Now when it comes to the evidence on the age of the earth, I believe that it is all a matter of interpretation of the data. One expert scientist may say that the earth is millions of years old; some experts say it is only thousands of years old. (There are many scientists who disagree with the common belief of the earth being millions of years old). At the end of the day, who is the ultimate judge of the data? Who is the ultimate expert on the data? I believe the expert in creation is the God of the Old and New Testament who created the earth and all that is in it (Psalm 24:1). I am a finite being and I do not project to know everything about how everything works. Science enriches my faith by explaining the things in the universe that God created, especially those things which are not spoken of in the Bible. But science is not my ultimate truth, the Bible is. Why? Because science is based on man’s reason and his reason can be wrong. Science is not unchangeable truth, but the Bible is. And I understand that until I defend the reliability of the Bible, my beliefs on creation will be quickly written off. Grace and peace, Roger

Ashot I want to clarify one point. I am not teaching that the Bible is the only place to prove God’s existence, and God would exist if we did not have the Bible. What I am saying is that there are two ways we learn about God, natural revelation and special revelation. Natural revelation is how God has revealed himself in nature (i.e. creation) (Psalm 19:1 “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands”). God has also revealed himself to every man (Ecc 3:11 “He has made everything appropriate in its time He has also set eternity in their heart”, and also Romans 1:19 “because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse).” Therefore, I do accept that inner sense of God existing. When we deal with Special revelation, we are dealing with the Bible, how God is revealed in the Bible. It teaches us about His nature and works, and the revelation of God in Jesus Christ who came to die and save sinners. That revelation of God can only be known through the Bible and not in creation. God can be known in nature, but only God's revelation through Jesus Christ and the plan of salvation can be known through the Bible. Hope this better explains my positions. Grace and peace, Roger

No, I am not a priest. I am curious, why do you ask?

Sip, There are good answers to your question from a Biblical perspective, but since you refuse to acknowledge my answers but rather must insult me, I refuse to speak with you any further. I am only willing to spend my time and effort providing answers to those who would like to have an adult conversation. I pray for you and do not hold any of this against you, but I hope one day that you will listen to people, even if you do not agree with them. Grace and Peace, Roger

According to the Bible, Genesis 1, God created the world and everything in it (light, land, animals, man/woman, etc) in 6 literal 24 hour days. Man was created on the sixth day of creation according to Genesis 1:26-27: “Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” The Bible states that animals and man existed at the same time. God created them on the fifth and sixth days of creation according to Genesis 1:20-27: “20 Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens." 21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth." 23 There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. 24Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so. 25 God made the beasts of the earth after 1their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. I believe that fossils exist and I can contribute that to the world-wide flood that happened in Genesis 7-8. Yes, God did create man and woman in his image. Genesis 1:27 states: “God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” The verse is referring to the first humans, Adam and Eve and since we are all ancestors, we too are created in the image of God. The word for image is the Hebrew word tselem, which basically means “likeness” or “semblance.” First though, God created man and there is a necessary distinction between God and man. Man is not independent of God, but is dependent on God. God also created man in His image. A good way to understand this is to see the difference from the rest of creation. Unlike animals, man has the ability to think, make moral decisions, be creative, etc. Man is a personal spiritual eternal being who resembles God and was created to rule over creation. I take the Word of God to be literally the Word of God, which leaves room for correct use of symbolism. The Bible must be interpreted according to it's context and genre. I do not believe in allegorizing the Bible which is different. When referring to the Old and New Testament narratives, Creation, Noah's Ark, Red Sea, Jesus' miracles, other miracles, etc. I take those to be literal supernatural events. I do not take those as "story telling" or "imaginative." No, God did not need to cram the animals in the boat, it was big enough! I can provide you the reason I believe the earth to be approx 6,000 years old. It has to do with the dating of the Scriptures. Creation was done in 6 days. Genesis 5 gives us the genealogy from Adam to the Flood which is 1,656 years. Then Genesis 11 gives us the genealogy from the flood to Abraham which is another 225 years. Then from Abraham to the rest of the events in the Old Testament is 1,500 years. From the Old Testament to the New Testament is 400 years. From the beginning of the New Testament until now is 2,000 years. So add that up and you get approx 6,000 years. I am not a scientist and do not proclaim to be one. I know that science teaches that the earth is billions of years old. I am not looking for an argument here; I am just providing answers to your questions from the Biblical perspective. The answer to our conversation is not whether the earth is old or young, but rather which authority we accept. We can either accept the authority of fallible humans beings or the authority of God’s Words. I am willing to discuss the exact Bible Scriptures that you believe are in error. Grace and peace, Roger

Fair enough...I believe in the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments as seen in modern English translations such as the King James/New King James Version, New American Standard, English Standard Version, New International Version, etc. There is not one English version I believe in, and when I need to, I know Biblical Hebrew and Greek to look at the original languages the Bible was written in.

Sip, Since you believe that the Bible is "flawed" the burden of proof is on you to tell me which parts. As long as you are not making a general statement and you seriously question specific chapter and verses, then we can continue to talk. We can start wherever you like. Roger

I am a Bible believing Christian NOT a Jehovah's Witnesses. Please reread my post and see that I quoted from the Dioceses of the Western Armenian Church.

Sip, I apologize for assuming that you do not believe in God, which was not my intent and my error. I believe you misrepresent my reason for believing in God. (Example: I never told you to “prove me wrong”, I simply stated why I believe in God). I wrote in my last post that I believe the Bible and yes the Bible does reveal to us the nature of the Christian God. I also gave other proofs that could be used for the existence of God, such as nature, the universe, and morality. I never asked that you agree with me, others have asked why I believe in God and I am simply stating my reasons. Since you fail to acknowledge my posts and misrepresent what I have to say, I must end this conversation with you. I will leave you with this. I admit that I believe in an inerrant and infallible Bible. If the Bible truly is the Word of God, which it is, you have a bigger problem in life. You are a sinner, just as I am (Romans 3:10, 23 “There is none righteous, not even one…for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God). You will pay the eternal penalty for that sin (Romans 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”) BUT God in His love sent a savior, Jesus Christ, so that you could be forgiven (2 Cor 5:21 “He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”) Jesus Christ came to earth, lived a sinless life and was crucified, buried, and risen on the third day. IF you repent of your sin and embrace Christ, you can be saved from the eternal penalty of death (Romans 10:9 “If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved).” I pray and hope that you would embrace the good news that is proclaimed in the Bible, that you can be forgiven of your sins. Grace and peace, Roger