KnightOfArmenia Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 I disagree massively, both with your contention that none of this is about the fact that the government has Karabaghtsis in it - which is against the evidence I presented, by the by - and with your attempt to paint the current situation in Armenia as "fear and mental slavery." As was said earlier, this is closer to propaganda a party hack would come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightOfArmenia Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Knight - I am going to make this as simple and as clear as possible... Here is your problem, I will do this highlighted - I ASKED YOU 5 SIMPLE QUESTIONS AND YOU MADE THIS INTO A POLITICAL ISSUE, THEN YOU MADE THE ACCUSATIONS "AGAIN" THEN YOU STARTED GOING OFF REGARDING ARTSAXTSIS THEN BACK TO LTP THEN HISTORY OF ARMENIANS THEN BACK TO THE "CLAN" THEN OFF TO MY POINT OF VIEW THEN YOUR POINT OF VIEW THEN THE 10 DAYS MEETINGS THEN CONSPIRACY THEORY THEN THE ARF AND FINALLY YOU DIDN'T ANSWER MY QUESTIONS how hard is it to answer 5 simple questions as simple as possible? do you MUST always go off to the mountains and back down to the rivers when you talk about something? So let me get this straight, the more words you put in a sentence, the more you talk about something else rather then what the topic is, the more you are a smarter and politically better person right? No way I could be wrong on this case... come on after all that's what exactly it looks like, whoever writes more words, more explanations "off topic", more difficult words, more confusing terms his the best and the smartes!!! XONARVUMEM DZEZ SIRELI PILITICNER!!! Actually, the only one of your "five simple questions" I didn't answer was whether I believe in miracles, which is really neither here nor there, since that is a question about my religious faith and observance, not my views on the current state of affairs. Since it seems so important that you capslock for it, then yes. I do believe in miracles, and I believe the survival of the Armenian nation, and our victory last decade, were examples of them. Here's a hint, Ashot - just because I'm verbose, and actually use words to express my beliefs, doesn't mean that I didn't answer your questions. You asked, I answered, and then clarified my point. Don't become so hostile just because I bring up things you'd rather not be brought to light. LTP's background is very much "on topic" - so is the similarity between the needless racism and negative treatment given to non-native Armenians 50 years ago, and the same racism and treatment given today. I mentioned the ARF because you and others seem to think this is about "those of you who support SS," which isn't accurate - I support justice and my homeland. They just happen to narrowly coincide, in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazarian Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 I disagree massively, both with your contention that none of this is about the fact that the government has Karabaghtsis in it - which is against the evidence I presented, by the by - and with your attempt to paint the current situation in Armenia as "fear and mental slavery." As was said earlier, this is closer to propaganda a party hack would come up with. I don't know if this is directed to me but I have to disappoint you. Any usurper of power that breaks the laws, abuses the population and then shoots at them and kills them is unacceptable to me. It was like that during the Soviet times and from the 1996 till today regardless of the birthplace of the dictators. It would be good if the readers did not focus on a snippet of what I posted but read the whole thing instead and thought about what it actually means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 To quote myself, with the important part highlighted, As for your questions: No, I don't think American Armenians care very much that European Armenians are from Europe. Location generally doesn't matter. In fact, likewise for most Persian Armenians - I point to the fact that our hars is Hyastantsi, and that most of my girlfriends have been Beirutsi or Halebtsi, as evidence. And by far, this isn't an issue of "all" native-born Armenians having this problem. The problem is that a PORTION of them - a very vocal portion - have a superiority complex against everyone else. You've seen examples of it on this board. You yourself, Ashot, were talking about Karabaghtsis as "them," when I pointed out to you why you were wrong about them "wanting independence from Armenia." Alpha has made fun of the way they speak - that is, that their dialect isn't Armenian. In fact, most LTP supporters constantly complain about how "Karabaghtsis are taking over Armenia" as if it isn't their Fatherland. These are the same folks - in some cases, very literally the same folks - who did everything they could to get rid of the "aghbars" and made life into living hell for those who wanted to actually return to their ancestral home. The fact that Alpha has the gall to insult Karabaghtsis on the way they talk in one post and then criticize people for not going to live in Armenia - and say that it means Armenia isn't "theirs" - astounds me. If Kocharyan had been born in Yerevan, none of this would be an issue. None. If all of his "cronies," as you call them, had been born in Gyumri and Spitak and Echmiadzin rather than Stepanakert and Shushi and whatnot, there wouldn't be a single problem. Now, granted, I'm hypothesizing here; but judging from the fact that you support LTP, despite his *extensive* history of anti-democratic and out-and-out illegal actions, and yet endlessly criticize the Armenian government's response to a riot that broke out after ten days of unsanctioned and illegal protests - something that would have gotten shut down within the hour if you had tried it in, say, Los Angeles - I have to say that I don't think my guess is far off at all. This isn't a conspiracy theory, nor is it some "RK/SS are amazing" post. I wish the ARF had won complete control of the presidency and 100% of the Parliament, if you want my opinion. We need nationalists and azgapashts running our country. But my opinion is neither here nor there, and not the point of any of this. What I'm talking about is willful blindness on your part to the sins of the candidate you supported, while simultaneously criticizing - or hell, even inventing conspiracy theories about - the existing government, without acknowledging the massive hypocrisy in that. And as a student of history, I can't help but look into the past and see that almost the same arguments were made back then. From "they're stealing away our country" to "they're taking our jobs" and "they're driving us out" to "they aren't even really Armenian" and "they can't speak Armenian" and everything else. Exactly the same charges you and other LTP supporters have repeatedly levied against the "Karabagh clan," was used decades ago to condemn your brothers and sisters because of racism. You'll forgive me, then, if I don't buy the arguments this time around, either. Good job Knight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Night, you still don't get it? All I am saying is you guys should keep everything as simple as possible... Here is my own answers to my own questions... do you think Armenian Americans do not set difference between Armenian Europeans? American Armenians set very big deferences between themselves and those from Europe... After all Armenian Americans think they are all that!!! Do you think that Armenian Persians do not set difference between Armenians from Armenia? They do more then we know, they call us from Armenian "rabiz" Do you think that Armenian Russians do not set differences between Armenians from Armenia? Not as much as others from different parts of the world. Do you still belive in miracles? Yes and finally Do you, yourself set any differences between whatever the type of Armenian you are and other Armenians from elsewhere? Yes I do. All of you here have the problem of making this a huge fuss, why did I ask this questions is to know your answers, and you guys always tend to go from mountains to rivers and then back to the lakes... keep it simple, or else you guys aren't anything better then the American politicians... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Knight, every time I read your response I am just cracking up how you tend to take 5 simple questions and make it into a political speech, I am glad many people agree with you can get many votes... but you guys have to stop it with the nonsense.... Imagine if someone asks you how are you doing today, and your answer would be something close to this... I slept late at night, because I was trying to answer to this guy from HyeForum some questions he asked, and then I got frustrated, and I typed up a huge speech just to put him in his place, and I think I did a good job... then in the morning I had to respond to his response and if we don't take into consideration that LTP is stupid and SS should have never won, because ARF is the only right way for Armenia, by the way I am still pissed off at what LTP did and SS forged the elections I would say I am doing pretty good. Nonsense right? That's who you guys sound to me when you get off topic and start going up and down... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightOfArmenia Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Knight, every time I read your response I am just cracking up how you tend to take 5 simple questions and make it into a political speech, I am glad many people agree with you can get many votes... but you guys have to stop it with the nonsense.... Imagine if someone asks you how are you doing today, and your answer would be something close to this... I slept late at night, because I was trying to answer to this guy from HyeForum some questions he asked, and then I got frustrated, and I typed up a huge speech just to put him in his place, and I think I did a good job... then in the morning I had to respond to his response and if we don't take into consideration that LTP is stupid and SS should have never won, because ARF is the only right way for Armenia, by the way I am still pissed off at what LTP did and SS forged the elections I would say I am doing pretty good. Nonsense right? That's who you guys sound to me when you get off topic and start going up and down... What exactly are you talking about? This thread is titled "What Should Be Done?" If you haven't noticed, it is a very political thread, asking what should be done about the current state of affairs - the entire topic of this thread is political. I am "just cracking up" at your attempt to jab at me for being political in a political thread. This is how debate works - you give a point and you clarify it, staking out different stances and letting anyone who opposes your view understand fully what you mean and what you stand for. If you want me to be less verbose, or to use simpler words, then say so and I'll make a good faith effort. But stop trying to derail the thread - which is a political topic thread with silliness about "JUST ANSWER MY 5 SIMPLE QUESTIONS" when they've been answered, or going off on tangents about miracles. You haven't yet "frustrated" me, Ashot - in fact, it seems you're the one being frustrated, since I'm replying to everything you're asking but in more words than you appear to like. Words are your friends; don't shun them. Love them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 amen inch ir chapi sahmannerum e geghetsik - BArekammner Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Knight, you are saying that you are in a topic that says what should be done, and yet in every way possible you have tried to bring in the past back... every single second you mention what happened and yet I have not seen you say anything about what should really be done... stop with your fantasies, be realistic... try to view Armenia as it is right now, not as you imagine... There is SS and RK, they are the leaders, now tell me what should be don, no don't tell me they should be changed with ARF or someone else, they won't be changed... Yes I do crack up at you and all the others like you... you guys are the type of the people that just don't get it... you think you are smart and all that, that's what sets the difference between me and you... In every way possible you have tried to offend everyone in here, including mostly me. When you were posting your opinions I wasn't putting my nose into your own opinions, but for some reason you had to come and put your nose into my own opinions, why must you think that my opinion should be the same as yours... You are way different then me and yes I will always set that difference between me and you... In my opinion you are not even worth another minute of my time to explain you few things... seems like you need to grow into it... not that you are a kid, but grow into something better and understanding... You and very few your type in the forum are just waste of time... My dear POLITICIANS. By the way... just wondering - what have you done for Armenia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazarian Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Who instigates you to be so virilly anti authorities in Armenia? Why are you so adament that all the deplorable violence that took place, was perpetrated by one side? Why do you disregard the 105 policmen injured as though they deserved to be shot? Were they lesser Armenians then you? Weird you state to be in USA... Was not your blog off the Google search for the past few days? Why did it dissapear? Oh wait a minute I forgot, your goal is to inseminate divisivness! garmag, I'm sure you will enjoy this very GRAPHIC video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) You nite? You nitty? How do you spell you nitty? Look who is talking about "unity". Huh! What did you say? See, I am half deaf. Could you repeat what you said? YOU NITE? Why? Why can’t we have two republics one for Serge and one for Levon? After all we have two catholicosates/kingdoms, one for Garegin an one for Aram. Mite mi qich khbnoum e "mioutiun" bar@ gordzadzelis? If only we could eat our own words we would never be the "Starving Armenian" again. ----- CATHOLICOS OF CILICIA ARAM I CALLS ON ARMENIANS TO UNITE ARKA March 11, 2008 YEREVAN, March 11. /ARKA/. Catholicos of Cilicia Aram I urged the Armenian people to unite around their national values in such a difficult period. >From February 20 to March 1, Armenia's opposition political forces led by ex-president Levon Ter-Petrosyan were holding rallies in Liberty Square in Yerevan protesting against the results of February 19 presidential elections attributing victory to Prime Minister Serge Sargssyan. As a result of public unrest and clashes between the rally participants and the police 131 people were injured, and eight were killed. On March 1, RA President Robert Kocharyan issued a decree on imposing a twenty-day state of emergency in the capital. "Today our homeland faces greater problems ever and our people should leave aside all their minor problems to unite around national values and interests," the Press Office of the Catholicos of Cilicia quoted him saying. The same source reports that His Holiness Aram I sent a delegation to Saint Etchmiadzin to express support to Catholicos of All Armenians Garegin II in connection with the Yerevan events, as well as the wounded and families of those killed. The delegation includes Archbishop Sepuh Sargssyan and Bishop Narek Alemezyan. --0-- Edited March 13, 2008 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmag Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Do you usually wait to get directives to answer my posts? Just curious! Funny..... how your opinions and postings are extremely prejudicial and one sided, promoting just the views of one faction! You portray the tragic events that took place in our capital with a certainety that nears ESP.....and pretty much you stay mum about the possibility that you might be wrong! Do you happen to have an uncle in the courts Go ask some elders what this means. I have viewed enough of videos about the sad events..... to form an opinion without your propaganda input to form my opinions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) garmag, I'm sure you will enjoy this very GRAPHIC video. Could you please remove that GRAPHIC video? I nearly fell off my chair! THAT WAS SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was about to eat and write my paper, but now the day has ruined for me after seeing such an image up to the point where I can not concentrate on my paper & eat. Thanks! That does not change my mind about LTP, nor the fact that the guy or similar people like him should not have been rioting in the first place, but graphic videos like that are very disturbing. You could have at least briefly stated that it's an EXTREMELY GRAPHIC video, so that people like me, with weakness for seeing blood, would have ignored that particular video. I feel like I might throw up soon...honestly! Next time anyone wants to post such videos, please be kind to briefly state that there's blood involved in the video because this is not right. Didn't really crossed my mind that 'graphic" meant blood! Now you should start writing the paper for me for ruining my day and my concentration like that! I bet I would simply pass out if I was there at that moment. Edited March 13, 2008 by elle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 garmag, I'm sure you will enjoy this very GRAPHIC video. Please...either remove the video OR briefly write that's there's lots of blood and a hole in one of the rioters mount, so that people will decide for themseleves whether its worth watchign or not. I would never have watched it knowing the content of the video. I am sure there are few people just like me in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Just one questions about that video....Didn't that hurt because he wasn't crying at all! He was just sitting there without any pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 I am not sure what should be done, much less sure that it matters a whole lot.I do however wonder what Charents meant when he wrote: "Armenian people, your only salvation lies in your collective strength". No Boghos, it was Garegin Njdeh who said it. Charents's ամբոխները խելագարված comes to my mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmag Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) Could you please remove that GRAPHIC video? I nearly fell off my chair! THAT WAS SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hi elle, You could see what kind of a moron will post such horror... It suits the confusion that nazraian and his ilk aim to accomplish! Should the authorities commit the same error by posting injured policmens' bloody videos, I would weep for Armenia and her future. Edited March 13, 2008 by garmag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) Hi elle, You could see what kind of a moron will post such horror... It suits the confusion that nazraian and his ilk aim to accomplish! Should the authorities commit the same error by posting injured policmens' bloody videos, I would weep for Armenia and her future. As if the video helps to resolve anything. I am in shock and can not think about anything else except that right now. Edited March 13, 2008 by elle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Hi elle, You could see what kind of a moron will post such horror... It suits the confusion that nazraian and his ilk aim to accomplish! Should the authorities commit the same error by posting injured policmens' bloody videos, I would weep for Armenia and her future. yes let them post everything !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Righ on Mos jan, it is obvious when we are talking about something, then we shall have all the facts on the table... so basically let's have everything out in the open... who did what!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightOfArmenia Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Knight, you are saying that you are in a topic that says what should be done, and yet in every way possible you have tried to bring in the past back... every single second you mention what happened and yet I have not seen you say anything about what should really be done... stop with your fantasies, be realistic... try to view Armenia as it is right now, not as you imagine... There is SS and RK, they are the leaders, now tell me what should be don, no don't tell me they should be changed with ARF or someone else, they won't be changed... Yes I do crack up at you and all the others like you... you guys are the type of the people that just don't get it... you think you are smart and all that, that's what sets the difference between me and you... In every way possible you have tried to offend everyone in here, including mostly me. When you were posting your opinions I wasn't putting my nose into your own opinions, but for some reason you had to come and put your nose into my own opinions, why must you think that my opinion should be the same as yours... You are way different then me and yes I will always set that difference between me and you... In my opinion you are not even worth another minute of my time to explain you few things... seems like you need to grow into it... not that you are a kid, but grow into something better and understanding... You and very few your type in the forum are just waste of time... My dear POLITICIANS. By the way... just wondering - what have you done for Armenia? I spent about 2 weeks of my own time, on my own expense, during my vacation, working on the Lachin corridor highway to connect Artsakh to Armenia's infrastructure and provide stronger support for my nation. This was back in 2004. Aside from donations and whatnot, that's what I've personally, physically, with my own two hands done for my Fatherland. And you didn't make a point, so I'd have to say you're wrong - the difference between us is that I make points, rather than get angry at others for remembering inconvenient facts and positing conspiracy theories blaming Jews or Russians or a massive government plot for the woes of my homeland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightOfArmenia Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Just one questions about that video....Didn't that hurt because he wasn't crying at all! He was just sitting there without any pain. It's shock, Elle. I've experienced such things, and it hurts like hell but you can't really react to it, depending on how bad it is apparently. I didn't really yell out until disinfectant was used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) No Boghos, it was Garegin Njdeh who said it. Charents's ամբոխները խելագարված comes to my mind This is what he means. Read the second letter of every line from top to bottom. Ով Հայ ժողովուրդ ...etc. ՊԱՏԳԱՄ Նոր լույս ծագեց աշխարհին. Ո՞վ այդ արևը բերեց:-- Ահա ոսկյա մի արև՝ ճառագումով իր հրե՝ Այգաբացի պուրպուրե Նժույգների վրա հեգ՝ Նոր աշխարհին ու մարդուն Հղում է լույս զվարթուն, Նոր աշխարհին ու մարդուն Ո՜վ բերեց լույսն այս արթուն, Օ՜, ո՞ւձեռքով վառվեց, ո՞ւմ, Հրակարմիր, հրավարս, Ադամանդյա լույսը այս:- Կքած կյանքի բեռի տակ, Խոր գերության ընդերքում, Իմաստության մի գետակ Հիմարության համերգում-- Քանի՜ տարի, քանի՜ դար Վկայեցիր անհերքում... Ափերին այն խավարտչին, ՈՒր հայրենիքն էր մեր հին,-- Չկա՞ր արդյոք գետ մի հորդ, Որ գերության անհաղորդ՝ Լուրթ՝ հոսելով դարից-դար՝ Մթության մեջ այն համառ Այս այգաբացն էր կրում, Հո՜ւր այգաբացն այս հեռու՝ Հնուց պահած իր ջրում Օ՜, ըղձակա'ն այս հեռուն... Կքած կյանքի բեռի տակ՝ Ոգի՜, անկոր, հո՜ւր գետակ... Ահա վառվում է մեր նոր Հաղթանակի լույսը բորբ. Լվանում է նա հիմա Վառվող ոգին մեր անմահ, Չքնաղ արև'ն այդ արի, Վառված հրով աշխարհի... Չկա՜ ուրիշ արև է'լ. Նա' է միայն, որ դարեր Անմար՝ պիտի արևէ'... Լույսով վառված սակայն այդ՝ Նժարներից հիմա մենք Հիմարությամբ չթափենք Իմաստությունն այն արար.-- Մեր անցյալի խորամիտ Է'ջն այն արդար ու ռամիկ՝ Մեծահանճար ու վարար... Edited March 14, 2008 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 JOghovurd jan neghanalu neghvelu karriq chka - hangist normal z@rutseq Ashot t@gha xeloq mna !!! dzers el chi hasnum mi hat akanjit tak bampem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Mos jan inch anem... Levon papik@ heghapoxela indz... dursem ekel bolori dem... chgitem te inchi!!! Bayts de mek mek vat chi eli miqich vichabanel, nervaynanal, teche sents xaxand paymannern umen petq!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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