Cool Armenian Language Websites

[Sip]

People who sincerely want to see the Armenian language's usage flourish can provide their input into any of these articles.

 

I am no expert on this topic by any means but I do know that energetic people with genuinely sincere wishes can often f*ck things up beyond belief. "Genuine sincerety" and the "wish to contribute" does not "a qualified expert" one make.

[Shahan Araradian]

You are wrong again, our exalted poobah, to borrow a term from the operetta Mikado.

Թ does not equal T, it is the counterpart of TH/Theta as in Thomas/Թոմաս and Theodore/Թեոդորոս/ Mattheos/Մատթեոս.

Read what I wrote carefully.

 

In Eastern Armenian, Թ is pronounced /t/.

 

In Classical Armenian Թ is pronounced "th" as in "thin."

[Shahan Araradian]

How can it be professional if nobody gets paid?

 

Free dictionaries should also be available, preferably closed. But a professional, academically sponsored dictionary is an absolute necessity, from which free dictionaries can take (limited) advantage. Otherwise we are going to be stuck in time. What happens with new words? New expressions? New linguistic phenomena? Again, I ask you: what is the point of going to school and studying linguistics anymore? Are you expecting all linguists to be unemployed, while they voluntarily contribute to an open source dictionary? Indeed, what is the point of having an academically sponsored dictionary?

Volunteering means you don't get paid for the work you do. (In this context, by "professional" we mean of high-quality, not to denote someone getting paid.)

 

If you feel you need to get paid for every work you do (even the one for your community or country), then that means you're not a volunteer; you're a mercenary. You don't need to relinquish your profession in order to become a volunteer.

 

If there weren't volunteers amongst us, neither the ՀՄԸՄ, the Համազգային, ARF պատանեկան միութիւն, nor ՀԵԴ would exist.

 

Armenia would not have existed today without volunteers, because throughout the Armenian liberation movement from the 1890s to 1920s, it was an Armenian VOLUNTEER ARMY (the «Կամաւոր բանակ» in «Յառաջ Նահատակ» anthem) that liberated Armenia.

 

Volunteering is the essence of community.

 

Make your living through your profession or business(es) that you own; volunteer on your own time.

Edited July 21, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Arpa]

Oh look, another fallacy.

 

Western Armenians don't change the way they spell words based on the way they pronounce them. Western Armenians merely pronounce words differently than other Armenians.

 

Can you actually construct one sound, logical argument?

Yes. Italians, even if they may pronounce Napoli as Naboli don,t write "naboli, hey still write "Napoli" as some Armenians write "araraD" just because they erroneously pronounce it that way, and they don't write Վարթան just because some of us pronounce Վարդան as Վարտան Vartan.

Վարդան is written Վարդան is Վարդան no matter how some of us may pronounce it ar Vartan, Varthan etc. then why are we translitarating AraraT/ԱրարաՏ as AraraD/ԱրարաԴ?

Edited July 21, 2007 by Arpa

[nairi]

If there weren't volunteers amongst us, neither the ՀՄԸՄ, the Համազգային, ARF պատանեկան միութիւն, nor ՀԵԴ would exist.

 

Armenia would not have existed today without volunteers, because throughout the Armenian liberation movement from the 1890s to 1920s, it was an Armenian VOLUNTEER ARMY (the «Կամաւոր բանակ» in «Յառաչ Նահատակ» anthem) that liberated Armenia.

 

Volunteering is the essence of community.

 

Make your living through your profession or business(es) that you own; volunteer on your own time.

 

Yes, and look at where volunteering has brought us! We're still a bunch of beggars, our country is a mess, and we don't even have a decent dictionary! The last thing I need is your ARF-crapola propaganda!

 

I'm done. I have said what needed to be said one too many times on this thread. If you continue wanting to be blind, then you shall deserve to stay blind.

 

See ya!

[Arpa]

Yes, and look at where volunteering has brought us! We're still a bunch of beggars, our country is a mess, and we don't even have a decent dictionary! The last thing I need is your ARF-crapola propaganda!

 

I'm done. I have said what needed to be said one too many times on this thread. If you continue wanting to be blind, then you shall deserve to stay blind.

 

See ya!

Speaking of ARF-crapola. Did you see how how he twisted a question about "church" (assuming it was in re theology etc). to a debate of us agianst tem, Ejmiatsin v Antelias?

I have nothing against ARF, ABC and NBC, only if they would stick to their socialist agenda and leave linguistics alone. I have aways admired Homenetmen, but the fact that they also poison the minds of their children with "us v them...." eastern Armenian v western... turkish Armenian v Russian Armenian .... well!!

Edited July 21, 2007 by Arpa

[nairi]

Speking of ARF-crapola. Did you see how how he twisted a question about "church" (assuming it was in re theology etc). to a debate of us agianst tem, Ejmiatsin v Antelias?

 

I don't read those threads. Unless it was on this thread and I missed it..

[Gor-Gor]

Yes. Italians, even if they may pronounce Napoli as Naboli don,t write "naboli, hey still write "Napoli" as some Armenians write "araraD" just because they erroneously pronounce it that way, and they don't write Վարթան just because some of us pronounce Վարդան as Վարտան Vartan.

Վարդան is written Վարդան is Վարդան no matter how some of us may pronounce it ar Vartan, Varthan etc. then why are we translitarating AraraT/ԱրարաՏ as AraraD/ԱրարաԴ?

 

I don't know why I bother to respond to your posts -- it always leads to the same thing: conversing in circles.

[Arpa]

I don't read those threads. Unless it was on this thread and I missed it..

Here is the refernce.

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=15950

Please tell us how many responded to the question in a theological and canonical sense. Once aagain, a question about religion turned into a debate of us v them, as if the church is a political akoumb. Not to mention how some of us turn linguistics to politics. It only shows how some of us go to school to not learn science and knowledge but learn enough words only learn to polticize, opinionate and pontificate.

Edited July 21, 2007 by Arpa

[Arpa]

Oh look, another fallacy.

 

Western Armenians don't change the way they spell words based on the way they pronounce them. Western Armenians merely pronounce words differently than other Armenians.

 

Can you actually construct one sound, logical argument?

Dear Gor Gor, I hate to get personal.

How old are you?

Please don’t answer.

We love you..

We love your passion.

I am assuming that you may be younger than my son, who as a teenager was the first to bring to my attention the juxtaposition of the Ayb Ben Gim to the Greek Alpha Beta Gamma. Of course, at that time I did not have the luxury to immerse in linguistics as I was working 25 hours a day to provide.

Had my son picked up on my “unorthodox” views?

Don’t feel sorry for me, as today my son, a highly successful professional lives in a million dollar house where he does not even cut his own grass. Thank you.I'm glad he is not on this board. Or, maybe he is, as he has indicated he knows who "Arpa" is.

Until today he still knows that Բ equals B and Դ equals D. Where had he learned that? Don’t blame me. Or maybe you should.

You should have seen his eyes fall out of their sockets at every step of the way when we together were in Yerevan this time last year. Yes, he did confess that he did not understand every word by our tour guide, and I had to re-interpret, when he would say - “Oh now I see,. She means D instead of T, etc.”

Have you been to Yerevan? Why not?

I am from Halep. Do I wish to revisit Halep? Why not? How many Ejmiatsins, How many KhorViraps, how many Erebuni-s , how many Sevans , how many Sardarapat Museums, how many policemen, EVEN IF YOU AND YOUR LIKE MAY NOT UNDERSTAND THEM, who speak Armenian …. you name them.. are there in Halep?

Edited July 21, 2007 by Arpa

[nairi]

I have nothing against ARF, ABC and NBC, only if they would stick to their socialist agenda and leave linguistics alone.

 

They should leave both alone. Socialism is a nice ideal for punks and couch potatoes. The rest of us understand that society cannot possibly function if a person helping an elderly cross the street gets paid the same amount as a heart-surgeon. What is the point of going to school for 15 years, working your butt off, to have access to the same luxuries as someone helping elderly cross the street?

 

This is what Shahan does not understand: that a decent dictionary needs to be worked on FULL-TIME. It is not something one can work on in one's free time.

 

This is Shahan's "socialist" scenario: Hayk Lezvabanian gets a job working for Oxford English Dictionary and in his free time he should work voluntarily on an open source Armenian dictionary. How is that helping Armenia or the Armenian language? Hayk will be tired after work, he won't always have time, he may not always be in the mood, he might want to go on vacation every now and then. Again, how is Hayk helping the Armenian language like that? Why should he not have the right to work FULL-TIME for an Armenian dictionary? Why should he earn his living among foreigners, forcing him to assimilate further and further, forcing him to speak someone else's language, and forcing him to survive away from "his people." Again, why should Hayk, a qualified linguist, not be allowed to work professionally in his field for his people?

[AK-47]

Yes, and look at where volunteering has brought us! We're still a bunch of beggars, our country is a mess, and we don't even have a decent dictionary! The last thing I need is your ARF-crapola propaganda!

I guess we should give Artsakh back since volunteers got that back for us. Or maybe we should give up Armenia proper's borders as well since the actual border was drawn in 1918-1920, a country that was built by volunteers and volunteer army. Not to mention the ARF role in all this.

 

We are an emerging country, give Armenia some time... it has only been 16 years and despite 2 hostile enemies, an earthquake and lack of natural ressources, we're managing. We'll manage to get a dictionary too A little optimism would help.

[AK-47]

I have aways admired Homenetmen, but the fact that they also poison the minds of their children with "us v them...." eastern Armenian v western... turkish Armenian v Russian Armenian .... well!!

There are Bolsahye Tashnags, Tashnags in Lebanon, Dashnaks in Russia, Dashnaks in Armenia. I'm sorry but it seems to be that you are exaggerating an old rivalry between Hnchak-Ramgavar v. Dashnak that has almost disappeared or heavily toned down since the independence of the fatherland.

[AK-47]

They should leave both alone. Socialism is a nice ideal for punks and couch potatoes. The rest of us understand that society cannot possibly function if a person helping an elderly cross the street gets paid the same amount as a heart-surgeon. What is the point of going to school for 15 years, working your butt off, to have access to the same luxuries as someone helping elderly cross the street?

Obviously, there are different kinds of Socialism other than Marxist-Leninist (or Communism) which is the one you are implying.

[Arpa]

I guess we should give Artsakh back since volunteers got that back for us. Or maybe we should give up Armenia proper's borders as well since the actual border was drawn in 1918-1920, a country that was built by volunteers and volunteer army. Not to mention the ARF role in all this.

 

We are an emerging country, give Armenia some time... it has only been 16 years and despite 2 hostile enemies, an earthquake and lack of natural ressources, we're managing. We'll manage to get a dictionary too A little optimism would help.

Yeah Yeah! Right!

What does Arttsah/Karabagh have to do with a dictionary whwen most Aemnian Dictionaries still refer to that land in the Turkish designation of "karabagh"?

 

[AK-47]

Yeah Yeah! Right!

What does Arttsah/Karabagh have to do with a dictionary whwen most Aemnian Dictionaries still refer to that land in the Turkish designation of "karabagh"?

My point is not dictionaries but volunteering itself and its effect on our history.

Yes, and look at where volunteering has brought us! We're still a bunch of beggars, our country is a mess, and we don't even have a decent dictionary! The last thing I need is your ARF-crapola propaganda!

I agree though, it's horrible if some Armenian dictionaries call Artsakh "karabagh". As soon as it is permitted, we need to rename the ugly "Nagorno-Karabakh" foreign Turko-Russian name to Artsakh

[Gor-Gor]

Dear Gor Gor, I hate to get personal.

How old are you?

Please don’t answer.

We love you..

We love your passion.

I am assuming that you may be younger than my son, who as a teenager was the first to bring to my attention the juxtaposition of the Ayb Ben Gim to the Greek Alpha Beta Gamma. Of course, at that time I did not have the luxury to immerse in linguistics as I was working 25 hours a day to provide.

Had my son picked up on my “unorthodox” views?

Don’t feel sorry for me, as today my son, a highly successful professional lives in a million dollar house where he does not even cut his own grass. Thank you.I'm glad he is not on this board. Or, maybe he is, as he has indicated he knows who "Arpa" is.

Until today he still knows that Բ equals B and Դ equals D. Where had he learned that? Don’t blame me. Or maybe you should.

You should have seen his eyes fall out of their sockets at every step of the way when we together were in Yerevan this time last year. Yes, he did confess that he did not understand every word by our tour guide, and I had to re-interpret, when he would say - “Oh now I see,. She means D instead of T, etc.”

Have you been to Yerevan? Why not?

I am from Halep. Do I wish to revisit Halep? Why not? How many Ejmiatsins, How many KhorViraps, how many Erebuni-s , how many Sevans , how many Sardarapat Museums, how many policemen, EVEN IF YOU AND YOUR LIKE MAY NOT UNDERSTAND THEM, who speak Armenian …. you name them.. are there in Halep?

 

Don't patronize me.

 

Do you not think I have noticed the similarity between the ABC and the Ayb-Ben-Gim? I'm very well aware of that similarity. You, however, are too blindsighted by your hatred of all things Western Armenian that you simply cannot fathom that someone would find some value in pronouncing the letters "the wrong way." What value? I've said it before, but I'll repeat it: The consonant shift in Western Armenian was a natural progression. To me, it is a symbol of the fact that Western Armenians adapted to their host surroundings, but never gave up their roots (in this case, their language transformed, yes, but they didn't stop speaking it). There is VALUE in that to me. And for that reason, I will not advocate making a unilateral change to the pronunciation scheme of Western Armenian. It is what it is. And I love it, despite and it spite of it.

 

Further, you are a hypocrite for not speaking to your son with what you deem is the correct pronunciation.

 

Finally, I have been to Yerevan, the regions, and to Artsakh. I read the news daily from Yerevan, and I long to go back.

 

WHAT DOES ALEPPO HAVE TO DO WITH THIS?

 

Have some respect for the city that welcomed with open arms your forefathers. Have some respect for the city that allowed Western Armenia to grow once again.

 

How many Echmiadzins are there in Aleppo? There is a little bit of Armenia in every Diasporan community. It's a shame you don't see that.

 

Oh and by the way, should all the Aleppo Armenians leave their city and move to Yerevan? Should they just leave Forty Martyrs Church to the Arabs? Should all the Kessabtsis leave as well? So that there will be even less proof that Armenians did once occupy the Ottoman Empire? OH I KNOW!! All the Der Zor Armenians should leave, too.

 

Have you been to Der Zor? Have you seen the chapel that has been built in the middle of the desert, where you can find bones by unearthing the ground a few inches? Yes, let's forget all of that, let's leave our history behind. Who cares about Haleb? Togh arapneroon mna. Mezi inch gab ooni? Che? Amot kezi, Arpa. Kich me achert pats, laynamid yeghir. Amen inch "Turkahayeren" pare hrchagelov chsgsir yev chverchanar.

 

--

 

Edit: And for the record. I am 24 years old. I hold a law degree from a respected university, and I will sit for the California Bar Exam in exactly 3 days. DON'T patronize me.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Gor-Gor

[Էլիա]

I have aways admired Homenetmen, but the fact that they also poison the minds of their children with "us v them...." eastern Armenian v western... turkish Armenian v Russian Armenian .... well!!

Arpa, I'm part of Homenetmen, but I've never seen, noticed, or experienced any mind-poisoning with EA vs. WA. I've never had anything against Eastern Armenians. I just want them to treat me in the same way in which they would treat themselves, which would be as respected Armenians.

 

[Shahan Araradian]

Yes, and look at where volunteering has brought us!

Yes. We built Armenia and Armenian communities with it. There is NO other way.

 

We're still a bunch of beggars, our country is a mess,

Who is "we"? I am not a beggar. Nor are my friends.

 

and we don't even have a decent dictionary! The last thing I need is your ARF-crapola propaganda!

Whatever I proposed you shot down:

1) I said help me build it; I'll build the infrastructure. You said, I won't do it if I don't get paid. You think I don't have a job? You think I'm not volunteering my time for free?

 

2) I said we'll need to raise capital, and that's most likely going to come from a benevolent Armenian culture trust such as that of Kirk Kerkorian or Gukbenkian. You said: we don't need to raise money.

 

So I'm not sure what will satisfy you.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Էլիա]

Ամէն մարդ, հերի՛ք է: Հաճիս նոյն կռիւը չկրկնենք ամէն անգամ, նորէն ու նորէն ու նորէն... Մէկ վայրկեանին, բառարաններու մասին կը խօսինք, եւ յաջորդ վայրկեանին, բարբառներու եւ ճամբորդելու մասին կը խօսինք: Ասիկա ի՞նչ է:

[nairi]

Yes. We built Armenia and Armenian communities with it. There is NO other way.

 

Then you are blind my friend. How do you think Japan became one of the richest countries in the world? Volunteering?

 

Who is "we"? I am not a beggar. Nor are my friends.

 

"Mi qich me pogh fund-raise areq." I call that begging.

 

Whatever I proposed you shot down:

1) I said help me build it; I'll build the infrastructure. You said, I won't do it if I don't get paid. You think I don't have a job? You think I'm not volunteering my time for free?

 

2) I said we'll need to raise capital, and that's most likely going to come from a benevolent Armenian culture trust such as that of Kirk Kerkorian or Gukbenkian. You said: we don't need to raise money.

 

So I'm not sure what will satisfy you.

 

You have only been arguing for an open-source dictionary, which is not what I'm looking for. I don't want amateurs working on a dictionary of such importance as I am talking about. I want FULL-TIME software engineers, FULL-TIME linguists, and FULL-TIME editors, among many others.

 

As for ME getting involved in this project: unlike you, I am fully aware of my abilities and my lack of abilities. I am not the designated person to start or even work on this project. For the millionth time: this is a project that should be started at a renowned linguistics department in Armenia. Stop thinking that you've got what it takes to start a project like that on your own from your garage.

 

Now tell your role models (you know those ANCA-shits in Washington) to focus on lobbying in Armenia for once, instead of lobbying in America. What do I care whether America recognizes the genocide? Has it made any difference to Armenia until now? No! What I do care about is for Armenia to become prosperous and be able to sponsor a project like that, among many others.

[Shahan Araradian]

Then you are blind my friend. How do you think Japan became one of the richest countries in the world? Volunteering?

That's not a one sentence answer and I don't want to answer that question. But it is OBVIOUS that in order to create a homeland from nothing it's ONLY volunteers who can accomplish it -- that's how Armenia was built, and that's how Israel was built.

 

"Mi qich me pogh fund-raise areq." I call that begging.

That's how business is done in the U.S. and throughout the world. For such cultural projects, you apply for GRANTS by submitting your proposal to a fund.

 

You have only been arguing for an open-source dictionary, which is not what I'm looking for. I don't want amateurs working on a dictionary of such importance as I am talking about. I want FULL-TIME software engineers, FULL-TIME linguists, and FULL-TIME editors, among many others.

Don't use it then.

 

As for ME getting involved in this project: unlike you, I am fully aware of my abilities and my lack of abilities. I am not the designated person to start or even work on this project. For the millionth time: this is a project that should be started at a renowned linguistics department in Armenia. Stop thinking that you've got what it takes to start a project like that on your own from your garage.

What can I say? You're a pessimist. You don't believe in yourself, so how can you believe in others?

 

Now tell your role models (you know those ANCA-shits in Washington) to focus on lobbying in Armenia for once, instead of lobbying in America. What do I care whether America recognizes the genocide? Has it made any difference to Armenia until now? No! What I do care about is for Armenia to become prosperous and be able to sponsor a project like that, among many others.

You're clearly not involved in any Armenian organization, hence your convoluted view of the ANCA's work.

 

Have a nice day.

[nairi]

Have a nice day.

 

You too.

[Shahan Araradian]

Now tell your role models (you know those ANCA-shits in Washington) to focus on lobbying in Armenia for once, instead of lobbying in America. What do I care whether America recognizes the genocide? Has it made any difference to Armenia until now? No! What I do care about is for Armenia to become prosperous and be able to sponsor a project like that, among many others.

The ANCA's positive impacts on Armenia are numerous, notably that Armenian citizens receive the second-largest per capita aid from the U.S. (after Israel).

 

The ARF also now has a presence in Armenia AFAIK. And so does the ՀՄԸՄ.

 

The ARF's role in the liberation of Artsakh has also been documented.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Arpa]

Don't patronize me.

Finally, I have been to Yerevan, the regions, and to Artsakh. I read the news daily from Yerevan, and I long to go back.

 

WHAT DOES ALEPPO HAVE TO DO WITH THIS?

 

Have some respect for the city that welcomed with open arms your forefathers. Have some respect for the city that allowed Western Armenia to grow once again.

When is the last time I said something bad about Aleppo or DerZor?

In fact, I will be forever grateful to those noble people who took us in, protected, fed and clothed us.

Your heart and soul are in the right place but you are keeping bad company in the likes of Shahan, Read his posts again and see how toxic his pen is. The man is full of hate. If it is not towards eastern western vernacular, it is “stantsi” v “libanantsi” etc.

No wonder, as some may have implied that those from Hayastan don’t get involved in so called societies. How many other ways are there to insult them? Besides, there is this phenomenon of Compatriotic Societies. There was a time when people from Kesaria would form Kesaratsi Hayrenaktsatakamn Miutiun etc. just as every people from whatever town they were did. Nowadays those so called compatriotic societies may not be Kesaratsi, Vanetsi etc. but Beiruttsi, Bolsetsi, Hayastatsi etc. One also wonders if those Hayasrtantsif have finer divisions among themselves like Yerevantsi, Gumretsi etc.

 

Finally. Since this debate is about dictionaries. To this day I have not understood the need for this kind of dictionary and that kind. Is not Armenian one language? How many more lines of division do we need? Ask Shahan. He’ll find a few more lines to divide us. Why is there a need for several dictionaries. As Nairi suggested , why can’t one PROFESSIONALY WRITTEN dictionary satisfy both vernaculars and orthographies, like saying “people in Yerevan spell it this way and those from Bolis spell it this way“. Of course those so called “professionals” in Yerevan are not altogether innocent either. Read again those two articles written by self appointed “linguists” about “orthography” that had very little to do with the subject at hand but was full of insults, using such terms as “illiterate” etc.

 

If we are to talk about language and dictionaries, let us by all means but if we are to use the debate to insult people and create lines of division. As someone mentioned, this board is financed and maintained by people from Hayastan, just as the majority of participants are as well, yet they are so gracious in the face of how we insult them day after day. SHAME ON US!!!

Edited July 22, 2007 by Arpa