Էլիա Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Yes, it is annoying when these buffoons speak as if they know something, or worse yet, pretend to speak on my behalf as a so called western Armenian. Dear Elia, tsav@d tanem, I feel your pain. Do you feel mine? I have at many occasions indicated that I was born and raised in the so called western Armenian culture. It hurts me to see these self appointed “warriors “of the so called western Armenian shoot themselves in the foot, so to speak, make fools not only of themselves but also of me. You may have already noticed that very few of the practitioners of the so called eastern Armenian are taking part in this debate. You know that they are a majority on this forum. Why? Is it because they feel secure in their culture as opposed to the insecurity displayed by the above defenders of “turkahayeren”? They are an embarrassment. to me and my heritage. It hurts me when I see these “self appointed warriors “ speak on behalf of me and lump me as one of them. It only shows how shallow is their knowledge of the Armenian language. I don’t know what their ancestry is, but if they only knew how their grand parents spoke. I know how my Marastsi grandparents spoke. They did not greet one another saying PAREV, they said BAREV/BAROV. They did not say PANALI they said BANALI and so on. Neither did the Sasuntsis, Vanetsis or Mshetsis say TAVIT, they said DAVID I have said this a million times, please allow me to say it again. The way diasporan Armenians speak has nothing to with western Armenian. It is TURKAHAYEREN, ARABAHAYEREN, FRANSAHAYEREN, AMERIKAHAYEREN …. You complete the list. OK, OK Yeerevanites speak RUSSAHAYEREN when they write Grand instead of Hrand etc. (There is no H in Russian.) What some of us are calling western Armenian is not “western Armenian” at all. It is Turkish blah blah…. Armenian. Our ancestors did not speak that way. We had to relearn our language again after the Big G, and guess who taught us our very own language. Not teachers from Sasun or Van but teachers from Istanbul. Not only that, the majority of those “teachers” were not even Armenian. Do you know who Hubschmann, Meillet and Benvenista are? Where did they learn Armenian? Not Sasun Van or even Yerevan. Look them up and see. Pick up an Armenian Protestant hymnbook and see who the most prominent, prolific translator is. Do you know who Elias Riggs is? Do you know where he learned Armenian? Look here and see what his primary foreign language is; Ironically, he shares your name Elia,Elias. http://www.famousamericans.net/eliasriggs/ In conclusion. All I wish is that these semi-educated, non-linguists stop talking about Eastern and western dialects, stop dividing the nation by yet another line, stop telling us that Mashtots was an “idiot” who devised the AYP PEN QIM TA , and that he devised all those consonants to sound alike just to torture us, but most of all… STOP TALKING ON MY BEHALF AS IF I, A WESTERN ARMENIAN SHOULD SHARE THEIR VIEWS. THEY CAN MAKE FOOLS OF THEMSELVES ALL THEY WANT, BUT PLEASE INCLUDE ME OUT!!! THEY CAN CALL THEMSELVES TURKAHAY OR WHATEVER ****HAY BUT STOP CALLING THEMSELVES AREVMTAHAY . :angry: : Արփա, հաճիս լսէ՛: Ես անապահով չե՛մ զգար արեւմտահայերէնով, «թուրքահայերէն»ը չէ՛, եւ ես բան մը չե՛մ ըներ՝ հայերէնը ամչցնելու համար: Ես միայն քեզմէ կ'աղաչեմ, որ այլ կեցնես այս նախատինքները՝ արեւմտահայերէնին հանդէպ: Մենք թուրք չե՛նք՝ հա՛յ ենք: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Արփա, հաճիս լսէ՛: Ես անապահով չե՛մ զգար արեւմտահայերէնով, «թուրքահայերէն»ը չէ՛, եւ ես բան մը չե՛մ ըներ՝ հայերէնը ամչցնելու համար: Ես միայն քեզմէ կ'աղաչեմ, որ այլ կեցնես այս նախատինքները՝ արեւմտահայերէնին հանդէպ: Մենք թուրք չե՛նք՝ հա՛յ ենք: Այո սիրելի Էլիա. Մենք թուրք չենք, ուրեմն դադարինք թուրքահայերէն խօսելուց. Did you notice that I typed Խօս , not խոս? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Էլիա Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Այո սիրելի Էլիա. Մենք թուրք չենք, ուրեմն դադարինք թուրքահայերէն խօսելուց. Did you notice that I typed Խօս , not խոս? ... «Խոս»ը բառ մը չէ: Ինչի՞ մասին կը խօսիս: Ես «խոսիլ» բնաւ չըսի: Եւ ես «թուրքահայերէն» կը խօսի՞մ: «Թուրքահայերէն»ը կը նշանակէ հայերէնը, որ մարդիկ կը խօսին Թուրքիոյ մէջ: Ես Թուրքիոյ մէջ չեմ ապրիր, բայց Ամերիկայի մէջ: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) 1) Please respond to my post to you in this thread. 2) Now that you have gotten this all off your chest, can we agree that you won't bring it up in every subsquent post? Dear GorGor. You know that I will not respond to your question simply because I refuse to get embroiled in political and schismatic debate. How many of the posts by you and your buddies did actually address the debate at hand, I.e. language? Go back and read and tell us. Show us how a debate about language turns into politics and separatism. I will ask this again. Why is there a need for a so called eastern and a so called western Armenian dictionary? How many Armenian languages are there? Simply put,. Those who claim to not understand “eastern” or “western” Armenian respectively, bluntly put, DON’T KNOW THE ARMENIAN LANGUAGE. Should we also compose a Halebahay, a Parskahay, a Beirutahay, a Parisahay, a Yerevanahay, and Amerikahay dictionary too, and include all the Arabic, French, Persian, Russian and English words they use? To further illustrate attitude of you and your bosom buddies, go to the Religion section and see how a question by Remain Faithful was treated. Show us one post that addressed his question. 99% of the responses either reiterated that the Apostolic Church is the State Church of Armenia, but many more talked about Hnchak, Dashnak, Ramkavar, Antelias and Ejmiatsin. Did anyone talk about theology or church canon? Why? Does anyone know what that is? You do remember when you and I agreed on the matter of orthography. I still do. Simply because diversion from the Mesropian orthography will sever our ties with te roots of the Armenian language. By removing the letters Է Ւ Օ will make our language unrecognizable. At the risk of embarrassing our dear friend SAS again let me remind us when I showed him that “LOSH” was not under ԼՈՇ but ԼՕՇ a post Kilikian ԼԱՒՇ(laush), hence where “lavash” comes from. Once again. What does orthography have to do with idiom and so called dialect? As to your comment about me hating my own heritage. You are not only deaf, but you are also blind. Please show us how many gems of our so called western literary giants, the likes of Varouzhan, Siamanto, Tourian, Baronian, Zohrab et al you and your buddies have posted here? Do you know who Arshak Chobanian, Vahan Tekeyan, Vahe Vahian, Hakob Oshakan, Andranik Zaroukian, Shahan Shahnour and many, many others are? Search an find which of them and when they used "gor" as an official part of our language. Search and find how many I have. Talk is cheap. Action takes a lot of work. Edited July 20, 2007 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Էլիա Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) Those who claim to not understand “eastern” or “western” Armenian respectively, bluntly put, DON’T KNOW THE ARMENIAN LANGUAGE. Western Armenians do understand Eastern Armenian. Please show us how many gems of our so called western literary giants, the likes of Varouzhan, Siamanto, Tourian, Baronian, Zohrab et al you and your buddies have posted here? Search and find how many I have. Talk is cheap. Action takes a lot of work. I may not be a literary giant yet (because I'm only a teenager), but soon, through reading and studying, I will become a literary Armenian, who speaks the Western Armenian dialect. Edited July 19, 2007 by Էլիա Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) Western Armenians do understand Eastern Armenian. I may not be a literary giant yet (because I'm only a teenager), but soon, through reading and studying, I will become a literary Armenian, who speaks the Western Armenian dialect. Dear Elia, we love you and we love your passion about the Armenian language.Please do read again and see that my above diatribe was not asddressed to you but to those who would like to divide us as "eastern" and "western" .Please. Don'r get involved in this highly politically separatist debate. Just learn ARMENIAN, not western or eastern., just plain old good old fashioned ARMENIAN. Not eastern, not western, not northern or even southern. Edited July 20, 2007 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Էլիա Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Dear Elia, we love you and we love your passion about the Armenian language.Please do read again and see that my above diatribe was not asddressed to you but to those who would like to divide us as "eastern" and "western" .Please. Don'r get involved in this highly politically separatist debate. Just learn ARMENIAN, not western or eastern., just plain old ARMENIAN Լաւ, լաւ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted July 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Dear GorGor. You know that I will not respond to your question simply because I refuse to get embroiled in political and schismatic debate. How many of the posts by you and your buddies did actually address the debate at hand, I.e. language? Go back and read and tell us. Show us how a debate about language turns into politics and separatism. I will ask this again. Why is there a need for a so called eastern and a so called western Armenian dictionary? How many Armenian languages are there? Simply put,. Those who claim to not understand “eastern” or “western” Armenian respectively, bluntly put, DON’T KNOW THE ARMENIAN LANGUAGE. Should we also compose a Halebahay, a Parskahay, a Beirutahay, a Parisahay, a Yerevanahay, and Amerikahay dictionary too, and include all the Arabic, French, Persian, Russian and English words they use? Arpha, you raging maniac! Why do you think Firefox has 4 variants of the English dictionary? (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:3) English (Australian) English (Canadian) English (British) English To further illustrate attitude of you and your bosom buddies, go to the Religion section and see how a question by Remain Faithful was treated. Show us one post that addressed his question. 99% of the responses either reiterated that the Apostolic Church is the State Church of Armenia, but many more talked about Hnchak, Dashnak, Ramkavar, Antelias and Ejmiatsin. Did anyone talk about theology or church canon? Why? Does anyone know what that is? Don't mix issues up. Stick to the debates at hand and don't personally attack people for their view. You want to discuss orthography? Then discuss orthography. You want to discuss phonology? Then discuss phonology. THERE'S NO NEED TO BRING IN THE CHURCH NOR POLITICAL PARTIES into this. Those are SEPARATE subjects Talk is cheap. Action takes a lot of work. Really??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted July 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Dear Elia, we love you and we love your passion about the Armenian language.Please do read again and see that my above diatribe was not asddressed to you but to those who would like to divide us as "eastern" and "western" .Please. Don'r get involved in this highly politically separatist debate. Just learn ARMENIAN, not western or eastern., just plain old good old fashioned ARMENIAN. Not eastern, not western, not northern or even southern. LOL. Elia, there is no "plain Armenian." This guy (Arpha) lives in a fantasy world, and I think he is really crazy. There are three standard morphologies (this is how you conjugate and decline): Classical Armenian, Western Armenian, Eastern Armenian. There are three standard phonologies (this is how you pronounce letters): Classical Armenian, Western Armenian, Eastern Armenian. There are two standard orthographies (this is how you spell): Traditional/Classical and Reformed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted July 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 In conclusion. All I wish is that these semi-educated, non-linguists stop talking about Eastern and western dialects, stop dividing the nation by yet another line, stop telling us that Mashtots was an “idiot” who devised the AYP PEN QIM TA , and that he devised all those consonants to sound alike just to torture us, but most of all… Why do you lie? Neither I nor Gor-Gor made such a claim. I've already recognized that there are THREE phonologies (Classical, Eastern, Western) and that Mashdots created the Armenian alphabet for CLASSICAL phonology. NOT Eastern phonology and NOT Western phonology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted July 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) And thus you shall get what you deserve, that is NOTHING, as Arpa eloquently put it. Տեղդ նստիր ջանիկ: Այդ մէկը ես կը որոշեմ: Edited July 20, 2007 by Shahan Araradian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 it will be super nice if we stay away from personal insults MOvses Guys Mosjan already asked you people to stay away from insults and name calling. I'm asking as well please stay with the topic at hand and don't make it personal, otherwise you are giving us no choice but close this topic temporarily or permanent, the choice is yours. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) Քրեիստոս յեկավ ու ասաց "սիրեք իրար" այ մարդ Էս մեր Հայրենել իրար "սիրելու" համար խելքները իրար չի Edited July 20, 2007 by Edward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Տեղդ նստիր ջանիկ: Այդ մէկը ես կը որոշեմ: Stop being so condescending. This is not a voroshum that you can make. It's not like: should I stay or should I go--type of decision. Any linguist, with a couple of degrees, understands the vital importance of a professional, academically sponsored dictionary. Since you fail to see that, you are doomed to having an amateur, unreliable dictionary, and there is NOTHING that you can do about it, because no sane linguist is going to give away their knowledge for free when they can get paid doing it. Are you expecting all linguists to be unemployed? Or employed as plumbers while they contribute to your dictionary? What's the point of going to school and studying linguistics anymore? Especially since linguistics is not even a challenging subject, but something you can learn on Wikipedia in a day or two and declare yourself an expert. Dear Shahan, if you knew anything about linguistics, beyond your Wiki knowledge, and you truly cared about Armenian, you would also know that a professional, academically sponsored dictionary is a NECESSITY for the survival of any (written) language and the ONLY way to have a reliable and stable work of reference. As long as you stubbornly refuse to see this, you will also not see that your "decision" has no ground to stand on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Linguists actually get paid jobs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Linguists actually get paid jobs? I'm not sure whether you're kidding or not. Let me put it this way: anything that has to do with language is often the work of linguists. Next time you browse through a professional dictionary (even something like Bartleby), consider that there are linguists behind it. So yes, it is absolutely possible to get a paid job as a linguist (and I'm not even talking about a job in the academia). Though in Shahan's world, linguistics is a doomed area of study with no job prospects whatsoever. Then again, I'm fairly sure that even Shahan has made use of the knowledge that linguists have shared through books. He'll buy a book (or get it from a library) on Armenian linguistics, but he refuses to see that that book was written by a professional linguist, and not some software engineer with too much free time on his hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hosank Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Էլիա Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) LOL. Elia, there is no "plain Armenian." This guy (Arpha) lives in a fantasy world, and I think he is really crazy. There are three standard morphologies (this is how you conjugate and decline): Classical Armenian, Western Armenian, Eastern Armenian. There are three standard phonologies (this is how you pronounce letters): Classical Armenian, Western Armenian, Eastern Armenian. There are two standard orthographies (this is how you spell): Traditional/Classical and Reformed. Բայց եթէ դասական հայերէնը արեւելահայերէնին եւ արեւմտահայերէնին մէջտեղն է, ան «պարզ հայերէնը» չ'ըլլա՞ր: Եւ հարցում մը գլուխէս անցաւ՝ Գրաբարը եւ դասական հայերէնը նոյն բանը ե՞ն կամ չե՞ն: PS: Շահան, «nayiri.com»ին մէջ, տարօիրնակ սխալներ կան. օրինակ՝ «չորրորդ», «հինգերորդ», եւ «եօթներորդ» բառերը գոյութիւն չունին, բայց «վեցերորդ», «ութերորդ», եւ «իններորդ» բառերը կ'երեւին: PSS: Անձ մը գիտէ՞, թէ ինչպէ՞ս «PS» կ'ըսենք հայերէնով: Շնորհակալ եմ: Edited July 21, 2007 by Էլիա Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 PSS: Անձ մը գիտէ՞, թէ ինչպէ՞ս «PS» կ'ըսենք հայերէնի մէջ: Շնորհակալ եմ: This is directly translating "in English" to Armenian Elia , «հայերէնով» պէտք է ըսէիր: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Էլիա Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 This is directly translating "in English" to Armenian Elia , «հայերէնով» պէտք է ըսէիր: lol, ներողութիւն, մոռցա՜յ... բայց հիմա շտկեցի: Ուրեմն, դուն գիտե՞ս պատասխանը: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 lol, ներողութիւն, մոռցա՜յ... բայց հիմա շտկեցի: Ուրեմն, դուն գիտե՞ս պատասխանը: Hetg gir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Էլիա Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Hetg gir. «Յետգ Գի՞ր» ըսել կ'ուզես: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 «Յետգ Գի՞ր» ըսել կ'ուզես: Ayo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 : PSS: Անձ մը գիտէ՞, թէ ինչպէ՞ս «PS» կ'ըսենք հայերէնով: Շնորհակալ եմ: PS is an abbreviation of Post Script (After writing) Depending which orthography one use te Armenian abbreviations will be- In Traditional spelling ՅԳ- Յետ Գրութիւն In Yerevanian spelling- ՀԳ -Հետ Գրութիւն And one dictionary even suggests this ԵԳ- Ետ Գրութիւն Btw, a second PS is usually written as PPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Էլիա Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 PS is an abbreviation of Post Script (After writing) Depending which orthography one use te Armenian abbreviations will be- In Traditional spelling ՅԳ- Յետ Գրութիւն In Yerevanian spelling- ՀԳ -Հետ Գրութիւն And one dictionary even suggests this ԵԳ- Ետ Գրութիւն Շատ շնորհակալ եմ, Արփա: Btw, a second PS is usually written as PPS lol... sorry, I didn't know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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