The Situation In Lebanon

[Sassun]

Guys, there is only one entity that benefits from turmoil in Lebanon and that is Իսրայէլ: Do you guys honestly believe Syria could have killed Hariri? LOL. It is not a co-incidence that every time there is turmoil in Lebanon, it happens in the summer. It is to weaken Lebanon economically (politically, it is already veryyy weak). Summer = tourists and if you scare off the tourists, the average American will say, "oh damn, Lebanon has a war...oh wait what's this country next to it? Իսրայէլ? Let's go there!!!" More money for its southern enemy. Back to Hariri; Syria was the ultimate loser in Hariri's death. It is not logical for it to have killed him... it is either that the Syrian government or Mukhabarat are a bunch of incompetent idiots or that it was another country that killed Hariri. Syria was the loser at it lost a big part of it's influence in Lebanon (troops withdrawal, Cedar revolution). And as if Lebanese politics was not already complicated and divided, this made it even bigger. Only one country gained and continues to gain from all this turmoil. Take a wild guess.

 

This so-called "Fatah al-Islam" is a Judeo-American-Saudi creation that was gonna be used as a counter-balance to Shi'a Hizb Allah. Unfortunately for them, the Lebanese army took a stand and is trying to "mop the floor". Hizb Allah and its competent leader, Nasrallah has realized this and has played the chess game really well. It knows Fatah Islam is like a counter-balance to it yet they are fellow Muslims and he opposes the Lebanese government. So he has played as a de-facto neutral person who is winning the hearts of population with its support of the army and at the same time is trying to make sure the Lebanese army is "not too rough" on the Palestinians.

 

Bottom line is anyway that Lebanon is and will be the "wrestling ring" of the ME and year after year, there will be a new problem around summertime to weaken it because a united and peaceful Lebanon is a strong, a la Europe, Lebanon. It was once called the "Switzerland of the ME".

Good analysis.

Though I would not rule out "rogue" elements in the Syrian regime (like Khaddam, etc. ) who might have been responsible for the assassination of Hariri. These elements ( the old guard of the Ba'ath or those who might now sympathize with the majority Sunni aspirations in Syria and the Muslim Brotherhood there ) could have done the assassination in collaboration with and the help of USA / Saudi Arabia / Israel ... in the region things are always intertwined , to rule out KSA and USA even if Syrian elements might have done it would be naive . But again , when I say Syrian elements , I do not mean the regime itself , but rogue elements in the regime .....

 

And I disagree to a certain extent on Hezb Allah , I think they were surprised and had not made calculations for such events , especially the Fateh al Islam incident , and they are trying to do damage control . they find themselves in a delicate position , on the one hand their pan-Arab / pan - Islamic position following the July war would be shaken if they do not take a condemning position on the shelling of the refugee camp , and on the other hand , if they take too strong a position against the shelling / invasion of the camp , they would lose domestically , because at this point everyone is standing behind the army (either for real or in name !!)...

[annannimusss]

What does Saudia Arabia have to do with anything?

[Sassun]

I oppose what Hizbollah is doing. You can have your own political party, why have your own Army? Lebanon is ruined because of them. Hezbollah should disarm it's militia and continue the things smoothly. I can basically connect this to what happened with the NSDAP. Hitler had an Army of it's own and when he got power, he destroyed the parlement and took over as "The Leader" disregarding that his party was minority. We've seen it happen, it can happen again. It is the responsibility of the people of Lebanon to fight back the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon.

First Hezb Allah is not an army , it is a Resistance (guerilla ) movement , and if there still is any question as to why they are there , i think the events at the Nahr el Bared camp provide a good answer (if the July war has not done so already ) . the 50,000 strong Leb. army cannot deal with a few hundred rogue elements in Palestinian camps , how can they expect to defend Lebanon from Israel ? (unless you are saying Israel has no aspirations re : Lebanese land / water , but I ask you , why their obsesssion with the Litani river ??? not to mention Wazzani ? )

 

And as for your comparison , it does not hold !!! Do you know how many sects there are in Lebanon ? And all of them are armed (so technically , any of the sectarian parties can be behind these bombings ... ) , now why on earth would Hezb Allah take such a suicidal step as what you are referring to ???? Do you know what that would result in , even if they successfully take over the parliament & government ?? i leave it to your imagination .

 

it is the responsibility of the people of Lebanon to fight Israeli occupation / aggression . Hezb Allah are not exactly Iranian passport-holders if you know what I mean . Plus , someone sitting in the North of Lebanon or in Mount Lebanon , is not experiencing the same things that someone sitting in South Lebanon is (aside from the daily deaths as a result of mines / cluster bombs , millions of which were dropped by israel in the last 72 hours of the July war ) . the S. Lebanese are at the frontier of the struggle against Israel , and let me remind you that during the civil war , they suffered a lot as a result of the Palestinian actions , which brought about Israeli bombardments . the israelis had assumed that if they hit the S. Lebanese civilians , they will turn against the Palestinians and ally with them ... well they were wrong.....

 

[Sassun]

And you think Hezbollah's army is stronger than the IDF? Remember the Yum Kippur War. Israel was attacked "from the back" and they yet got to win the war. The IDF can own any military in the middle east. The media is just showing the Jews dying to show how the Arabs are bad and all. But if you see what really is happening, Hezbollah got owned in the war.

Um... 1000 fighters against 30,000 elite units , tanks , artillery units , the world's 2nd (or 4th if you want ) powerful air force , 33 days of war , and not one centimeter of Lebanese land were the Israelis able to occupy . if this the strength of the IDF , then I don't know what weakness would look like ???? Hezb Allah did not get 'owned' in the war . in fact , it 'owned ' israel like no Arab army has been able to do since 1948 . btw , the "Yom kippur" war is wrongly shown to be an existential war for Israel , it was clear that the purpose (and you can check out the Egyptian archives for this ) of the attack was to recover the Sinai (and Golan ) , and the Egyptian troops actually stopped halfway through , thinking that the Israelis would choose the diplomatic track . idiots .

[Sassun]

Sassun, my grandmother's sister lives in Tripoli and she told us that she is getting by just fine. She's been sipping surj and said it's business as usual.

I would not know as I have not been there , but some of my friends have family there , and they are afraid to do anything or go anywhere. I do not think I would call it "business as usual" , at least not in front of people who live in USA / Europe , because it is not business as usual !!! where in Tripoli does she live ? probably she is a bit far from Bab el tebbaneh . i hope so anyway .

[Armenak]

I don't know much about her whereabouts. She lives a fairly simple life and does not even own a telephone. Our only way to contact her is through her neighbors who are Sunni Muslims. I suppose she said that she's fine so that my family does not worry about her. The funny thing is, she had the chance to stay here in the United States, but opted for Lebanon instead. So I don't think she plans on living Tripoli (or Lebanon) anytime soon.

[Sassun]

For the first time ever the Ramgavars won a seat in Lebanon, and the reason was that they were allied with Hariri.

You said it yourself. They won by Hariri votes not Armenian ones . The Ramgavars do not represent 0.000001% of the Armenians in Lebanon. If you are willing to take a seat regardless, then that is fine. But it says more about your aspirations then anything else.

 

And Mr.Sassun, guess who he ran with Franjieh in Tripoili and with Karami, both pro Syrian guys, don't defend people who defend Syria and are with them. Your grandparents were not in Zahle getting shelled by the Syrians for an unimaginable amount of time.

Umm actually , we got shelled by not only Syria but also the terrorist Phalangists/Kata'eb , and also do you know what the Palestinian militias used to do on behalf of the Sunni population of Lebanon ? they used to force shop owners in West Beirut to pay "taxes" , and if someone refused, they would just kill them . how do I know ? let's just say , i just know. the Sunnis in Lebanon during the civil war had the Murabitun militia but were mostly reliant on the Palestinians , and then they strengthened their position thanks to Syria . and Hariri (Sunni) & Jumblatt (Durzi / Druze ) were Syria's biggest ally . so guess who allied with Syria's biggest allies ? Not to mention who allied with Armenian-hater and Armenian-killer convicted war criminal Samir Geagea ? And what happened , i thought that at some point the Ramgavars and the Hezb Allah were best buddies , what happened all of a sudden ? is Hezb Allah a danger to your seats I wonder, or I wonder if you are afraid of the TASHNAGTSOOTYOON ?

 

 

Again you are a turncoat to your people, you might as well join Hezbollah and get it over with. I can't belive I am hearing a person defend Hezbollah.

Well, I am sure a Ramgavar cannot believe it ,after all the ramgavars sold the Armenians of Lebanon for their seats , so why should I be surprised.

Edited June 5, 2007 by Sassun

[Sassun]

Lebanese Christians are some of the greatest victims of Israeli propaganda, through pro-Zionist channels such as the LBC. During the 2006 war, my aunt even got a taste of the IDF's propaganda through her phone in an automatized message, telling her that she'll be safe since she's in a Christian area blablabla...

 

The truth is that Israel only cares for its own interests, and there were strikes in Christian areas as well. There would have been more if there were no Western tourists around.

safe in a Christian area ... ? but they did target a water driller in Achrafieh

[Sassun]

 

Turkey 1915 - Bourdj Hammoud 1979

 

(on the green side of the poster , Kata'eb/Phalangist militiamen and a dead Armenian woman) :angry:

[Accelerated]

(on the green side of the poster , Kata'eb/Phalangist militiamen and a dead Armenian woman)

 

%$##!

[Sassun]

Two israeli jets are circling above the Nahr el Bared refugee camp , which is in NORTH Lebanon (where there is no Hezb Allah presence ..) .. so what is the point ? This goes to show that the zionists / USA are up to something.

[hosank]

that makes no sense, why would the US simply bomb refugee camps and so on, that would not serve any US strategic interests.

anyways, the US is trying to get peace in the Middle East ( i don't mean that the US are peace loving people who want the world to get along, but, clearly it would be hard for american trade interests to flourish in a war torn lebanon)

and israel has not been actively fighting in lebanon since last year. lets not forget that lebanon's own airforce is aged,out dated and not serviceable. meanwhile, isreal has some of the most modern weaponry in the region.

 

 

anyways, my solution for lebanon is to kick out all the palestinian refugees from the north, and make southern lebanon a sovereign nation, orat least, not part of the lebanese state, in order go regain the christian dominated statehood, and also kicking out hazbollah's support base.

[Sassun]

it would be hard for american trade interests to flourish in a war torn lebanon)

Trade interests ?

Lebanon consumes 10 times as many Iranian products than American ones. The American products exhibit was a dismal failure, whereas the Iranian products exhibition attracted hundreds of thousands of visitors. Food for thought.

 

And wow I must say , you have some ingenious solution to Lebanon's problems.

[Dave]

Well, Lebanon was initially smaller. Its territory only comprised Mount Lebanon and the nearby coast. The French created Greater Lebanon by attaching the surrounding lands to it.

 

It is the 40th anniversary of the Six Day War:

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.h...ea9-8208fa74644

Edited June 5, 2007 by Dave

[Shahan Araradian]

that makes no sense, why would the US simply bomb refugee camps and so on, that would not serve any US strategic interests.

Good question. Here are some answers:

1) Destabilize Lebanon to the point where the Lebanese army cannot handle its internal security, thereby creating the pretext for foreign forces (mostly U.S. forces, along with Zionist spies) to be deployed by UN mandate within Lebanon. (Really to serve the Zionist interest to fight Hezbollah, whose military wing is a legitimate resistance and self-defense movement that the Zionists have successfully branded "terrorists" in the U.S.)

2) Destabilize Lebanon on behalf of Zionist interests (destroy Lebanon's heavily tourist-oriented economy every year right before summer)

 

(It's like a game of chess, you've got to think a few steps ahead. Each move must lead to new opportunities, without making it obvious to your opponent -- and your audience, the world public -- what that opportunity is...)

 

anyways, the US is trying to get peace in the Middle East

Yeah. That's why the U.S. has sent their terrorists (American soldiers) to attack and destroy Iraq and Afghanistan. That's why they won't let Iran have a legitimate nuclear energy program and not even allow them to develop nuclear weapons -- why can the U.S. have nukes and not Iran? Why can Israel have nukes and not Iran? Why can Pakistan or India or China have nukes and not Iran?

 

If it REALLY were upto the U.S. (and not Zionists controlling U.S. foreign policy) the U.S. and Iran would long be friends! U.S. corporations want to do business in Iran. Iranian corporations want to do business in the U.S. It's the ZIONISTS that have artificially pitted U.S. against Iran; and Iran really has no beef with the U.S., other than the fact that it is allied with the Zionists -- which is an alliance created by the Zionists, and not Joe Smith in Alabama, nor Hasmig in Glendale, nor Rajiv in San Jose... It's the work of the Wolf Blitzer

s and Ben Moshe's and Henry Kissingers.

 

Zionists see Iran as a threat because they know that Iranians are a smart and productive people (just step into any of the top 3 engineering schools in the U.S. and count the number of Iranians), and that they've got the natural resources, too. And that the strong Iran that is being built today is seen as a "threat" by Zionists. Because no flourishing state can exist within 1000 miles of the Zionist state -- for the Zionists, it's not enough that they win; everyone else must lose.

 

( i don't mean that the US are peace loving people who want the world to get along, but, clearly it would be hard for american trade interests to flourish in a war torn lebanon)

I don't think the Zionist state wants ANYTHING to be exported out of Lebanon. Remember the naval blockade during the war?

 

and israel has not been actively fighting in lebanon since last year.

They have Israeli and paid Arab (mostly Lebanese Christian and some Sunni) spies littered throughout the country. From people manning the Beirut port, to "fisherman" in the sea, to taxi drivers, and to people in the "import/export" business. Assassination and car bombing is Mossad's middle name. And their motto is: "By way of deception, thou shalt do war."

 

lets not forget that lebanon's own airforce is aged,out dated and not serviceable. meanwhile, isreal has some of the most modern weaponry in the region.

Hezbollah's got some good anti-tank missiles, though, I hear.

 

anyways, my solution for lebanon is to kick out all the palestinian refugees from the north, and make southern lebanon a sovereign nation, orat least, not part of the lebanese state, in order go regain the christian dominated statehood, and also kicking out hazbollah's support base.

My solution for Lebanon is simple and can be done today: install day-time and night-time video surveillance in every crowded and "valuable" location in the country. Do it like the Londoners do. Catch the Zionists or their spies in action as they're planting the bombs.

 

Now that it's become clear how Zionists have infiltrated the U.S. State Department and the Bush Administration, and how they're having the U.S. fight Israel's wars (i.e. in Iraq) it's becoming clear to me why Zionists have been so hated throughout history -- they are the most parasitic group of humans: they infiltrate powerful governments and direct their foreign policy in favor of Zionists, with complete disregard to the lives of the other citizens of those governments (e.g. Americans, Germans, etc.). It's AMERICAN citizens suffering because of America's artificial support for the Zionist state: September 11 didn't have to do so much with hatred of the U.S. itself, but rather hatred towards the U.S. policy of being the lifeline of the Zionist state.

 

If we (Americans) want the "terrorists" to calm down, we must treat them as equals to the Zionists -- as humans. We (Americans) should not play favorites to the Zionists. Attacking the livelihoods of innocent Iraqis by destroying Iraq (that other "Iran" that posed a threat to the Zionist state) only creates FURTHER "terrorists" for generations to come. By fighting Israel's wars in the Middle East, the U.S. is securing generations of "terrorist" attacks on the American population. Do the Zionists care for the deaths of American civilian lives? They don't even care for the well-being of their own neighbors, so why would they care how the American people do 10,000 miles away?

 

It's no wonder that during World War II there was so much hatred for Zionists. It wasn't because of one man by the name of Hitler. It was because of AN ENTIRE SOCIETY that stood up against Zionism. An entire society that wanted an end to Zionist control of their own government. An entire society that wanted to get rid of its Zionist parasites.

 

The U.S. doesn't need Zionists; Zionists need the U.S. to survive. Just as a human doesn't need a tick to survive, but a tick needs to feed on another animal in order to survive. But not only is the Zionist parasite sucking the blood of the Americans dry, they are having the Americans place their hands in a beehive to create a new home for the Zionist parasites in that old beehive. Guess whose hand gets stung by the bees while the Zionist tick is feeding off of his leg?

 

If the U.S. is to survive, American society must wake up as the Germans woke up during the second World War. Zionism has gone too far.

Edited June 6, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Sip]

I think the solution is that every jew, christian, and muslim in the area should just kill each other so we can finally have some peace in this world.

[Sassun]

Sako

So tell me , what did the Ramgavars do with regards to the arrival Turkish "peacekeepers" in Lebanon ?

Other than begging for their presence. :angry:

 

[ArmoPhil]

Hezbollah can't do anything! They don't even have any air support! All they have is these Katyusha Rockets back from the Soviet time. You should also note that Hezbollah wanted Armenians dead in the Lebanese Civil War. Why Islamize a Christian country?

[ArmoPhil]

Um... 1000 fighters against 30,000 elite units , tanks , artillery units , the world's 2nd (or 4th if you want ) powerful air force , 33 days of war , and not one centimeter of Lebanese land were the Israelis able to occupy . if this the strength of the IDF , then I don't know what weakness would look like ???? Hezb Allah did not get 'owned' in the war . in fact , it 'owned ' israel like no Arab army has been able to do since 1948 . btw , the "Yom kippur" war is wrongly shown to be an existential war for Israel , it was clear that the purpose (and you can check out the Egyptian archives for this ) of the attack was to recover the Sinai (and Golan ) , and the Egyptian troops actually stopped halfway through , thinking that the Israelis would choose the diplomatic track . idiots .

I can't believe you guys really think Hezbollah is stronger than the IDF... To note, Israel can basically take over every single Middle Eastern country today. Invade it and Zionise it. Lebanon or Hezbollah is nothing compared to Israel. If Hezbollah ever attacks Israel again, Lebanon is going to have to welcome NATO forces sooner or later. I'm not saying that what Israel is doing is fair, but I'm trying to get a sense of logic out of your minds. Israel is backed most probably from the strongest army in the world, which is the Americans and they are also backed by NATO forces. What is Hezbollah backed with? Syria and Iran? And you guys basically think Iran and Syria can do alot for Hezbollah? Come on guys, they only thing they can give to Hezbollah is Katyusha Rockets.

Edited June 6, 2007 by ArmoPhil

[Sassun]

Hezbollah can't do anything! They don't even have any air support! All they have is these Katyusha Rockets back from the Soviet time. You should also note that Hezbollah wanted Armenians dead in the Lebanese Civil War. Why Islamize a Christian country?

Where do you get this nonsense from ? Who brainwashes you with this nonsense ? The only ones who killed Armenians were CHRISTIANS. And Lebanon is not a Christian country nor a Muslim one.

[annannimusss]

Dajeek, they did get elected by Armenians, the Tashnags are the ones who were doing voter intimidation, they were never with Hezbollah,!

 

Forget something, all Armenian parties joined in saying no to the Turkish troop presence, the Armenians of Lebanon came together during the bombing campaign bhy the Yahoodis.

 

[Sassun]

I can't believe you guys really think Hezbollah is stronger than the IDF... To note, Israel can basically take over every single Middle Eastern country today. Invade it and Zionise it. Lebanon or Hezbollah is nothing compared to Israel. If Hezbollah ever attacks Israel again, Lebanon is going to have to welcome NATO forces sooner or later. I'm not saying that what Israel is doing is fair, but I'm trying to get a sense of logic out of your minds. Israel is backed most probably from the strongest army in the world, which is the Americans and they are also backed by NATO forces. What is Hezbollah backed with? Syria and Iran? And you guys basically think Iran and Syria can do alot for Hezbollah? Come on guys, they only thing they can give to Hezbollah is Katyusha Rockets.

So let me get this straight : israel could have won the war last summer, but did not want to ? or it did ? am i missing something ?

 

let us list Israeli war objectives , as stated by Olmert , shall we ?

 

I quote:

 

-The return of the hostages, Ehud (Udi) Goldwasser and Eldad Regev;

-A complete cease fire; sure , after a war there is always ceasefire, tell us something more ingenious

-Deployment of Lebanese army in all of southern Lebanon; (Leb. army was already deployed in S. Lebanon and there was even a coordination front w/ Hezb Allah !!! )

-Expulsion of HezbAllah from the area , and

-Fulfillment of United Nations Resolution 1559

 

These are the words taken from Ehud Olmert's address at the "Knesset" on 17 Jul 2006.

 

So according to you:

 

1. Israel could free the "hostages" but just did not want to.

2. Israel could achieve cease fire. Ok ok , i give you this one... i have to say , Israel was able to achieve ceasefire.

3. Israel could kick Hezballah out of South Lebanon but just chose not to.

4. Israel could force the fulfillment of UN res. 1559 but just chose not to....

 

OK, we get it, Israel "won".

[Sassun]

Dajeek, they did get elected by Armenians, the Tashnags are the ones who were doing voter intimidation, they were never with Hezbollah,!

Yeah whatever... Voter intimidation ... if it hadn't been for that, the Ramgavars would have won their first seat ever , not with Hariri votes?

 

Forget something, all Armenian parties joined in saying no to the Turkish troop presence, the Armenians of Lebanon came together during the bombing campaign bhy the Yahoodis.

You are wrong. All Armenians did come together during the bombing campaign by the Jews , but all Armenian parties did not join in saying no to Turkish troop presence. The demonstration was organized by the Tashnagtootyoon - getronagan gomide , and Ramgavars had nothing to do with it.

 

Btw you are better off discussing without name calling , don't you think so?

Edited June 6, 2007 by Sassun

[annannimusss]

You were not getting shelled like the people of Zahle! My father was Kataeb and, he left 4 years before,but the Kataeb were the ones who defended the city from the FReaken Syrians. Tashnags, you did not comment on the voter intimidation DAdjeek. It is sad that you suppport a organization that almost every Christian hates, then again you are not a christian, but a muslim turncoat.

[Sassun]

You were not getting shelled like the people of Zahle! My father was Kataeb and, he left 4 years before,but the Kataeb were the ones who defended the city from the FReaken Syrians. Tashnags, you did not comment on the voter intimidation DAdjeek. It is sad that you suppport a organization that almost every Christian hates, then again you are not a christian, but a muslim turncoat.

So ARF supporters are now not Christian ? Huh ?

 

Zahle is not "Armenian" city . Bourj Hammoud is almost completely Armenian inhabited. Defending Zahle does not atone the guilt of attacking Bourj Hammoud and massacring ARMENIANS.

Edited June 6, 2007 by Sassun