Vanahye7 Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 (edited) Does anyone know what the total population of Western Armenians are around the world compared to Eastern Armenians. Ive always been interested in finding out the number but nowhere does it state that. Only data ive read is the current population of us Armenians in Armenia and Russia. Edited February 12, 2007 by Vanahye7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gor-Gor Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 The answer to this question depends on your definition of "Western Armenian." For example, a significant percentage of Armenians in Armenia today have roots in Western Armenia and the Western Armenian diasporan communities of Beirut and Aleppo. Also, many Western Armenians in the diaspora have totally assimilated - it depends on who you ask whether they are to be considered Armenian. It has often been stated that there were 500,000 survivors of the Genocide -- those survivors went to Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Armenia, USA, Canada, France, South America. If you consider population growth, then that number has since increased. But if you consider assimilation, then it has decreased. et cetera... It's a difficult question. Here are some figures that are quite reliable. Armenians in Istanbul today: 50,000 Armenians in Syria today: 50,000 Armenians in Lebanon today: 100,000 So we know for sure that there are at least 200,000 Western Armenians. It's difficult to get accurate numbers for the US and Europe, for the reasons stated above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanahye7 Posted February 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 (edited) The answer to this question depends on your definition of "Western Armenian." For example, a significant percentage of Armenians in Armenia today have roots in Western Armenia and the Western Armenian diasporan communities of Beirut and Aleppo. Also, many Western Armenians in the diaspora have totally assimilated - it depends on who you ask whether they are to be considered Armenian. It has often been stated that there were 500,000 survivors of the Genocide -- those survivors went to Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Armenia, USA, Canada, France, South America. If you consider population growth, then that number has since increased. But if you consider assimilation, then it has decreased. et cetera... It's a difficult question. Here are some figures that are quite reliable. Armenians in Istanbul today: 50,000 Armenians in Syria today: 50,000 Armenians in Lebanon today: 100,000 So we know for sure that there are at least 200,000 Western Armenians. It's difficult to get accurate numbers for the US and Europe, for the reasons stated above. I see. Well I know that there are alot of Armenians located in Argentina, France, Canada and the United States respectively. But my way of trying to come to a rough conlusion is to find out roughly how many Armenians are located in these regions and how many are western armenian to find out the specefics of the numbers? Does anyone know? And as to my opinion, I wouldnt call someone an Armenian once they have forgotten the language. That may seem kind of harsh, but in my opinon asymilation is another form of genocide of a people only without a war, and is just as bad. For example, there are many Italian Americans living in the eastern part of the U.S. but they all dont know the language nor the history of their people. They may have an Italian flag at home and claim to be Italian by blood but that it all nonsense. All that is left is a few phrases and customes related to food they still have. They have assimilated to being American, and are no longer Italian, in the eyes of many. Edited February 13, 2007 by Vanahye7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 (edited) Gor-Gor, those numbers you gave are very inflated; there are around 190,000 in Syria, 140,000 in Lebanon, and 60,000 in Istanbul. These numbers include the ones that left those countries during times of strife. There are Armenians in other Middle Eastern countries as well, including Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Israel, etc.. Armenians are those who accept what they are, and in population censuses worldwide, they say that they're Armenians. Since there are around 5 million Armenians in the diaspora, I'd estimate Western Armenians as being close to 3 million worldwide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_diaspora Edited February 13, 2007 by Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irlandahay Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Gor-Gor, those numbers you gave are very inflated; there are around 190,000 in Syria, 140,000 in Lebanon, and 60,000 in Istanbul. These numbers include the ones that left those countries during times of strife. There are Armenians in other Middle Eastern countries as well, including Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Israel, etc.. Armenians are those who accept what they are, and in population censuses worldwide, they say that they're Armenians. Since there are around 5 million Armenians in the diaspora, I'd estimate Western Armenians as being close to 3 million worldwide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_diaspora well said dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iranpour Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Gor-Gor, those numbers you gave are very inflated; there are around 190,000 in Syria, 140,000 in Lebanon, and 60,000 in Istanbul. These numbers include the ones that left those countries during times of strife. There are Armenians in other Middle Eastern countries as well, including Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Israel, etc.. Armenians are those who accept what they are, and in population censuses worldwide, they say that they're Armenians. Since there are around 5 million Armenians in the diaspora, I'd estimate Western Armenians as being close to 3 million worldwide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_diaspora Tehran, Iran, has one of the largest Armenian populations outside Armenia, next to Moscow, Beirut, Istanbul, Paris, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanahye7 Posted February 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Gor-Gor, those numbers you gave are very inflated; there are around 190,000 in Syria, 140,000 in Lebanon, and 60,000 in Istanbul. These numbers include the ones that left those countries during times of strife. There are Armenians in other Middle Eastern countries as well, including Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Israel, etc.. Armenians are those who accept what they are, and in population censuses worldwide, they say that they're Armenians. Since there are around 5 million Armenians in the diaspora, I'd estimate Western Armenians as being close to 3 million worldwide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_diaspora Woww, very interseting, thanks for the site Dave. Ive never actually seen a place with actually figures, but for some reason those figurse seem to look veryyyy exagerrated to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armenak Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 70,000 in Jordan? Hah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 40,000 in Canada? I bet Montreal alone has that many. Add another at least 40,000 for the rest of Canada. I don't think I would exagerate if I say total 100,000 in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armenak Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 40,000 in Canada? I bet Montreal alone has that many. Add another at least 40,000 for the rest of Canada. I don't think I would exagerate if I say total 100,000 in Canada. Let's not forget the 100 Armenians in Yellowknife. http://www.sarahefron.com/stories/armenians.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 40,000 in Canada? I bet Montreal alone has that many. Add another at least 40,000 for the rest of Canada. I don't think I would exagerate if I say total 100,000 in Canada. I have to disagree, there could not be more than 80,000 Armenians in all Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Tehran, Iran, has one of the largest Armenian populations outside Armenia, next to Moscow, Beirut, Istanbul, Paris, etc. Yes, of course, but I didn't mention it because Vanahye7 asked for Western Armenian population figures; Iranian Armenians are Eastern Armenians. If the genocide hadn't taken place, there would have certainly been more Western Armenians than Eastern Armenians today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Yeah those numbers aren't correct because the Canadian census accepts "Armenian" as only those who speak it as a first language at home. I'd say about 80 000 as well. And daymn...i didn't know about the 100 Armenians in Yellowknife...wow. We truly are everywhere. I'ver heard there are 4 Armenians in Alaska (a family). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 The 2006 Canadian census asked for the language spoken at home; it will surely give a more accurate view than the 2001 census which asked the origins of only 1/5th of the population, and mulitiplied it by 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Yeah those numbers aren't correct because the Canadian census accepts "Armenian" as only those who speak it as a first language at home. I'd say about 80 000 as well. And daymn...i didn't know about the 100 Armenians in Yellowknife...wow. We truly are everywhere. I'ver heard there are 4 Armenians in Alaska (a family). Those are Armenians doing diamond polishing in Yellowknife. I think it's been 7 or 8 years that the polishing company was established. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanetsi Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Yes, of course, but I didn't mention it because Vanahye7 asked for Western Armenian population figures; Iranian Armenians are Eastern Armenians. If the genocide hadn't taken place, there would have certainly been more Western Armenians than Eastern Armenians today. So are you including that number in your tally of Eastern of Western Armenian? A lot of Western Armenians-- meaning Armenians that lived in Ottoman-conquered territories, since that's what I would consider encompasses most, if not all, of Western Armenia-- fled to Iran. So then as what would they be considered? But I think that's what you meant anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 The old Diaspora is predominantly Western Armenian. But when you count the (Western) Diaspora please include Armenian communities in Europe. France alone has 600 000. Germany, Italy, Greece, Cyprus, Poland (use to be 100 000), Hungary, Sweden (one of the oldest Armenian communities in Europe dating back to XI century), etc. All these are old communities. The more interesting question is are they really Armenian at heart or just keep the "IAN" ending on their surnames as a title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanahye7 Posted February 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 (edited) The old Diaspora is predominantly Western Armenian. But when you count the (Western) Diaspora please include Armenian communities in Europe. France alone has 600 000. Germany, Italy, Greece, Cyprus, Poland (use to be 100 000), Hungary, Sweden (one of the oldest Armenian communities in Europe dating back to XI century), etc. All these are old communities. The more interesting question is are they really Armenian at heart or just keep the "IAN" ending on their surnames as a title. Thats such a good point you make, I mean how many really do know how to speak the langugage? Are you considered Armenian solely on the basis if your last name ends in -ian, or if your grandparents were and its in your bloodline? I dont think so, because if youve lost the langugae youve assymiliated and youve lost your heritage in a differnet kind of way. I guess we can never truly find out. A typiucal white American doesnt come from America, his grandparents at one point were from Europe lets just say Germany for example. Now he cxould be German by bloodline, but is he really German if he doesnty know the language and identifies himself as American and speaks English?? Edited February 13, 2007 by Vanahye7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gor-Gor Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Gor-Gor, those numbers you gave are very inflated; there are around 190,000 in Syria, 140,000 in Lebanon, and 60,000 in Istanbul. These numbers include the ones that left those countries during times of strife. There are Armenians in other Middle Eastern countries as well, including Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Israel, etc.. Armenians are those who accept what they are, and in population censuses worldwide, they say that they're Armenians. Since there are around 5 million Armenians in the diaspora, I'd estimate Western Armenians as being close to 3 million worldwide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_diaspora Those numbers are highly exaggerated. I have relatives in Aleppo and I have visited several times. My uncles are well-connected with the church and ARF. They have confirmed that there are 40,000 Armenians in Aleppo today (this is an official church figure). A few years ago, the Armenian Church in Aleppo (Perio Tem) even organized a PR push, encouraging Armenian families to have more children, because the community is shrinking. I know, because my grandmother was given a medal for having had 6 children. At its height, the Armenian community in Lebanon numbered 200,000. It is well known that roughly half of the community fled, leaving about 100,000 in the country. Official figures are always higher, especially in the case of Lebanon -- for political reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunt Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 What percentage of Armenians living in the ROA are the grandchildren, or great-grandchildren of Western Armenians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gor-Gor Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 (edited) I just found some official figures.... Aleppo: 50,000 Source: http://www.periotem.com/modules.php?op=mod...&pageid=741 Syria: 65,000 - 70,000. That's the entire country folks. Source: http://www.periotem.com/modules.php?op=mod...xt&pageid=6 Edited February 13, 2007 by Gor-Gor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gor-Gor Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 I really do not mean to sound rude, but all of these figures you are all providing are grossly exaggerated! 600,000 in France?! Come on. It's closer to half that. 6 million for the entire Diaspora (according to Wikipedia). Now that's wishful thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gor-Gor Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 What percentage of Armenians living in the ROA are the grandchildren, or great-grandchildren of Western Armenians? According to the Armenian Church of Aleppo figures, about 40,000 Armenians from Syria and Lebanon immigrated to Soviet Armenia in 1946. (Source: http://www.periotem.com/modules.php?op=mod...mp;newlang=arm) I'm pretty sure there was a smaller wave of Western Armenian immigration to Soviet Armenia a few years before or after. Also, there were Western Armenians from Europe that also left for Soviet Armenia. So the 40,000 figure is not exhaustive. I would say upwards of half a million Armenians in RoA today are descendants of Western Armenians (however, many of them left in the 1990s...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 (edited) You guys have it all wrong. Armenians amount to at least 2 billion. Ask Hagarag. 1.2 billion Chinese (Mamikoneans), 20 million Jews (Bagratunis), 100 million of his Ottoman ancestors… Not to forget all those other Armenians like Syr-ians, Jordan-ians, Egypt-ians, Alger-ians, Niger-ian, Ethiop-ians, Iran-ians, Russ-ians, Alban-ians, Austr-ians, Hungar-ians, Ital-ians, Bulgar-ians, Roman-ians, Norweg-ians, Skandinav-ians… How about Ind-ians, Indones-ians, Austral-ians? Oh, oh, I forgotr the Zimbabwe-ians! How many others nations are known as ******* ian? Canad-ian? Shoshone-ian? Colomb-ian, Argentin-ian? Edited February 13, 2007 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 ok i have an question i was born in Armenia - i'm in USA now i'm I a western Armenian or eastern Armenian ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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