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Another Victim Of Hatred by Russian nationalism and Skinheads in Russi


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NO TO RUSSIAN CHAUVINISM

 

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A number of young people from the youth union «Sargis Tkhrouni» of the -Democrat party held a protest action opposite the Russian Embassy today.

 

They demanded Russia, the strategic ally of Armenia, «to be more consistent in revealing the murders of a number of Armenians by Russian chauvinist skinheads and to fight against such phenomena». They mentioned about it in their statement too which they handed to the workers of the Russian Embassy.

 

“If they are not consistent in revealing the murders, we will go on a sit-down strike opposite the building of the Embassy and will hinder the work in any way we can”, said member of the organization Narek Galstyan and cried out “No to Russian Fascism”.

 

The boys were angry at the fact that the Russian authorities try to give an everyday coloring to the murders. According to the participants of the protest action, it is but a deception, and “They are playing into the hands of chauvinist organizations”. “The murders are committed on nationalist ground. Of course we do not mean to say that the violations are directed against Armenians. But the victims of the skinheads are mainly dark-skinned people. All the same we will fight for the rights of our compatriots”, Narek Galstyan claims.

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Natives of Caucasus shot at an Armenian in Moscow

12.02.2007 18:05 GMT+04:00 Print version Send to mail In Russian In Armenian

 

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ An Armenian was assaulted in Moscow. The incident took place at 9.50 a.m. in Rusakovsky street. Two unknown, presumably natives of Caucasus, shot at the Armenian and fled. The injured man was taken to hospital. The police are after an old black Mercedes in which the assassins are supposed to have escaped, report Russian media.

 

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ARMENIAN KILLED IN MOSCOW

 

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An Armenian citizen was killed in Moscow, “RIA Novosti” reports. “The corpse of Armen Harutyunyan (b.1969) was found at the house entrance with 22 stabs”, the agency reports.

 

Investigation is under way.

 

Lefortov Prosecutor’s Office is in charge of the investigation

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RUSSIAN SUPREME COURT PASSED SENTENCE FOR 6 SUSPECTS ON MURDER OF ARMENIAN CITIZEN

 

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The Supreme Court brought a verdict of guilty against 6 residents from Podmoskovie for murder of an Armenian citizen, who was killed in a suburban train heading to Odintsovo district in 2005. The Moscow Prosecutor’s Office reported that the 6 residents of Odintsovo district have been sentenced to various, including long-term imprisonment. The age of suspects ranges from 19 to 28, three of which were students of higher institutions and specialized high schools. According to the investigation, the young men, who are followers of radical and nationalistic views, “in advance agreed on joint attacks on persons of non-Slavonic nationality”. They decided to look for a victim in suburban trains of Beloruski direction and to shoot the scene of beating in order to sell it further. During two hours they changed trains and walked through carriages, looking for people with non-Slavonic appearance. Finally in the train heading to “Odintsovo-Bakovka” the young men came across Armenian citizen Samvel Tadevosyan. Attacking the victim the suspects began to beat him with their feet, hands and a metallic chain. They shoot the scene on a digital photo-camera with a video function. After stealing victim’s cell phone, money and documents, the suspects delivered several blows to Tadevosyan’s head and neck with a splinter of a glass bottle, in the result of which he died on the spot. According to investigators, the same night two more people became victims for defendants in trains, including a police lieutenant colonel. They took away victims’ money, valuable things and documents. The Moscow District Court brought a verdict of guilty against the 6 suspects for murder and deliberate medium-scale damnification to health, committed by a group of persons with preliminary agreement on grounds of national hatred, as well as for brigandage, robbery and theft of passport. The Supreme Court of Russian Federation examining appeals generally left unchanged the verdict of lower instances. Defendants Maxim and Aleksey Osipovs and Vladimir Maluntsev have been sentenced accordingly to 11.5, 6.5 and 4.5 years’ of imprisonment in a colony of common regime. The other three juvenile offenders have been sentenced to 9.5, 9 and 4.5 years’ of imprisonment in a colony of common regime. The 7th suspects-Anton Palamarchuk, was sentenced to 2 years’ of imprisonment in a settlement-colony, NEWSru.com reports.

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Killings of Armenians in Russia aren’t manifestation of ‘Armenophobia’

14.03.2007 18:22 GMT+04:00 Print version Send to mail In Russian In Armenian

 

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ The topic of xenophobia is raised during Armenian-Russian talks at all levels, Russian Ambassador to Armenia Nikolay Pavlov told a news conference in Yerevan. The Office of the Russian Prosecutor General and the Interior Ministry take all measures essential for disclosing such crimes, according to him. “It’s regrettable that all this happens in my country. But one should understand that these crimes are conditioned by a transitional period and are not manifestation of ‘Armenophobia’,” the Russian diplomat said reminding that the two recent murders were disclosed and those guilty punished.

 

At the same time he underscored that criminal collisions, in which Armenians take part, are represented by the Armenian media as xenophobia. “However, citizens should know the difference between criminal activities and xenophobia. Measures to be taken are being elaborated by the Office of the Russian Prosecutor General and the Interior Ministry but documents are not ready yet,” Pavlov said

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I wouldn't jump to defend these people being killed just because they're Armenian.

 

These Հայաստանցիs being killed are doing *something* wrong that they're not liked wherever they go. The same is true in L.A. -- Americans don't like them, and I don't like many of them either. Who likes a bunch of unemployed, unfriendly, and aggressive thugs riding around in black Mercedes with tinted windows and loud music and involved in criminal activity? I don't blame the Americans nor the Russians for not liking these people. But unlike Russians who resort to killing them, most Americans had a mass exodus away from places like Glendale in the 90s with the arrival of Russian Armenians (Armenians from Armenia or Russia). They went to places like Thousand Oaks, Agoura Hills, and Orange County.

 

I'm sure the reputation they've created in Russia is not much different than the reputation they've created in L.A. (Indeed, the reputation of Armenians in L.A. changed for the worse with the arrival of Russian Armenians in L.A in the 1990s. Now a lot of Armenians walk with their heads low and no longer want to be known as Armenian...)

 

Places where you don't find Russian Armenians, Armenians are still liked, though: the San Francisco Bay Area, Toronto, Montreal, New Jersey, Lebanon, Syria, French Riviera, to name a few. (Now of course this doesn't apply to all Russian Armenians; I'm sure more than half are the good kind. But that 25 or 30% really are not likeable, and unfortunately that 30% is the group that stands out and gives the rest of us a very, very, very bad name and image in the host country we are living in.)

 

If you make yourself likeable, then you'll be liked. You create your own reality, and Russian Armenians certainly have created theirs, unfortunately to the detriment of the rest of us.

Edited by Shahan Araradian
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P.S. We are ALL Hayastanci's (just like Stepan says :) ). Russian Armenian, Lebanese Armenian... who cares? We are all Hayastanci, and that includes you and me! ;)

No I'm not a Հայաստանցի (I was not born in Armenia nor to parents who were). By Հայաստանցի I broadly mean a Russian Armenian (with the Russian Armenia given by its meaning during the 19th century when Armenian was divided among the two ruling empires in the region: Ottoman and Russian empires).

 

Russian Armenian culture is VERY different than Western Armenian culture or from Persian/Iranian-Armenian culture.

 

Sorry to sound blunt but if you're telling me they're all the same, then there's something wrong with the way you interpret what culture is, and you're only fooling yourself.

Edited by Shahan Araradian
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Ur way of thinking Shahan jan is wrong. I'm born in the USA, and I grew up here all my life, so that doesn't make me Hayastanci? Stepan is right, wherever you are born, wherever you are raised... if you are Armenian, and you are part of Armenia (Hayastan), then you are HAYASTANci

 

;) So enough of this division crap, that is why our nationality doesn't move forward. We take one step forward and two steps back. Jisht chem Harut jan?

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No I'm not a Հայաստանցի (I was not born in Armenia nor to parents who were). By Հայաստանցի I broadly mean a Russian Armenian (with the Russian Armenia given by its meaning during the 19th century when Armenian was divided among the two ruling empires in the region: Ottoman and Russian empires).

 

Russian Armenian culture is VERY different than Western Armenian culture or from Persian/Iranian-Armenian culture.

 

Sorry to sound blunt but if you're telling me they're all the same, then there's something wrong with the way you interpret what culture is, and you're only fooling yourself.

 

The domestic culture of a diaspora is an inevitable adaptation to the dwelling place. It is a result of native culture -which could develop the minority culture either by the means of complementary similarity or contrasting difference- and socio-economic conditions.

 

Certainly there will be differences between the way Armenians from X and Armenians from Y behave. We all know this. We all see this as well.

 

Yet I must say Shahan, diminishing the graveness and the immorality of a murder based merely on their origin of the victim a massive, massive assumption. Was the 17 year old really killed because he was a token criminal Eastern/Russian/"Stantsi" Armenian, or because he was Armenian? Does the misbehavior of a ANY group justify ANY such crime?

 

My friend, your view of the "Russianized Armenian" is a sweeping stereotype, and hints to an unhealthy perspective (and just for the record, I am not from Hayastan or Russia.)

 

You mention the historic cause of the great schism of Armenians. You say that we were divided, as indeed we were.

 

Why, then, reemphasize this division and this gap? Why, thence, create even more division?

 

Do we not relate because of a common denominator? Why cling to details?

 

 

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Ur way of thinking Shahan jan is wrong. I'm born in the USA, and I grew up here all my life, so that doesn't make me Hayastanci? Stepan is right, wherever you are born, wherever you are raised... if you are Armenian, and you are part of Armenia (Hayastan), then you are HAYASTANci

I wouldn't quote an imbecile, and I don't want to give a response to an imbecile's quote. What are you talking about? What is he talking about? We all know what Հայաստանցի means.

 

There is a simple definition to Հայաստանցի: an Armenian born in Armenia or whose parents were born in Armenia. (It also generally means a Russian Armenian, as opposed to a Western Armenian or Iranian-Armenian living in Armenia.)

 

;) So enough of this division crap, that is why our nationality doesn't move forward. We take one step forward and two steps back. Jisht chem Harut jan?

There is no "division crap" here. I'm telling it like it is, and you shouldn't be offended from the truth. Reflect on it, and see what the reasons are and where we're going wrong. Because there's definitely something wrong here, and it might have to do with parenting, people's attitude in the new country, and a lack of community involvement.

Edited by Shahan Araradian
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Yet I must say Shahan, diminishing the graveness and the immorality of a murder based merely on their origin of the victim a massive, massive assumption. Was the 17 year old really killed because he was a token criminal Eastern/Russian/"Stantsi" Armenian, or because he was Armenian? Does the misbehavior of a ANY group justify ANY such crime?

We don't know why that 17 year old was killed. The articles don't say. I'm saying that we shouldn't jump to the conclusion to defend this kid just because he is Armenian. We don't know the details. 17 years old is not young. That is 11th grade in high school. We certainly don't know the details and cannot call this a hate crime. This person might have been a member of organized crime, or he might not. The real question is, why do Russians hate Russian Armenians? Why weren't Russian Armenians able to appease and be friends with their Russian neighbors? Why aren't they getting along with Mexican-Americans in L.A.?

 

My friend, your view of the "Russianized Armenian" is a sweeping stereotype, and hints to an unhealthy perspective (and just for the record, I am not from Hayastan or Russia.)

Talking about reality often hurts, especially if it's not your ideal reality. Our newspapers aren't talking about it, and putting issues under the rug and not addressing them does not solve the problem at hand. This isn't a stereotype, this is reality from the ground.

 

You mention the historic cause of the great schism of Armenians. You say that we were divided, as indeed we were.

 

Why, then, reemphasize this division and this gap? Why, thence, create even more division?

 

Do we not relate because of a common denominator? Why cling to details?

I'm not creating more division. Talking about the different Armenian cultures does not create more division. It simply illustrates the cultural mosaic that is Armenian culture. I'm sorry you find diversity to be equivalent to "division". (It sounds like an American labeling multiculturalism as "racism" or "segregation".)

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Shahan, you're so wrong here.

 

The hatred of minority immigrants is common everywhere. Ask the Polish in Ireland and the United Kingdom, the Turks in Germany, the Lebanese in Australia, and so on.

 

Shahan, you're from L.A., so I'm sure you've come across some of the "Russian-Armenians" who moved here in the 1940s. Haven't they integrated nicely?

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Why aren't they getting along with Mexican-Americans in L.A.?

This was my favorite from you. Nevermind the fact that the Mexican-Americans are also immigrants to the United States (like any other ethnic group), the Mexican-American community, just like the Armenian-American community has layers. Many of the more recent immigrants are difficult to get along with. And these same Mexican-American immigrants don't get along with blacks, whites and Asians in virtually every high school in Los Angeles County.

 

In fact I have noticed that at times the Mexican-Americans do not get along with each other, like some Armenians. Internal conflict.

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Shahan, you're so wrong here.

 

The hatred of minority immigrants is common everywhere. Ask the Polish in Ireland and the United Kingdom, the Turks in Germany, the Lebanese in Australia, and so on.

 

Shahan, you're from L.A., so I'm sure you've come across some of the "Russian-Armenians" who moved here in the 1940s. Haven't they integrated nicely?

Armenak, again, I'm not generalizing to all Russian Armenians. I'm talking about the 30% who are an obvious problem, and it's not only in L.A (L.A. is the most obvious due to their large numbers). I've had the privilege to work with some respectable and intelligent Russian Armenians raised in L.A. as well as in Armenia. I've also seen incredibly respectable and intelligent Russian Armenians from Armenia transform into this "unwanted" kind (unwanted by society) upon immigrating to the U.S. and hanging out with the "unwanted" kind...

 

Hatred of minorities is not the norm, though, as you claim. Why weren't Armenians hated in Iran to the extent that the locals would stab them? in Lebanon? in Syria? in the U.S.? in Canada? in France? Why is the problem is persistent across the Russian Armenians?

 

The only other place Armenians were hated enough such that the locals stabbed them was in the Ottoman Empire. And Ara Baliozian (see his corner) provides some explanations as to why that happened. And Armenians (especially the "revolutionaries") weren't at all "innocent" -- though the bulk of the Ottoman Armenian population was innocent.

 

What happens with nationalism (be it in Russia, in the Ottoman Empire, or among Armenians) is that even though 10% of the population might be a threat to the people of the host country, the entire population is seen as a threat.

 

The Armenian "revolutionaries" (maybe 5% of the Armenian population) were making a bunch of noise in Istanbul for Armenian rights and making grandiose threats. Who paid the price? The Ottoman Armenians in the heart of Western Armenia.

 

These Russian Armenian "gangsters" (maybe 20% of the Russian Armenians, and 5% of all Armenians) are making a bunch of noise and attracting bad attention. Guess who pays the price again?

 

So what are the rest of Armenians doing? A lot of the new generation just stays away from being Armenian.

Edited by Shahan Araradian
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This was my favorite from you. Nevermind the fact that the Mexican-Americans are also immigrants to the United States (like any other ethnic group), the Mexican-American community, just like the Armenian-American community has layers. Many of the more recent immigrants are difficult to get along with. And these same Mexican-American immigrants don't get along with blacks, whites and Asians in virtually every high school in Los Angeles County.

 

In fact I have noticed that at times the Mexican-Americans do not get along with each other, like some Armenians. Internal conflict.

OK. Try to reflect on this: Why don't you see Iranian-Armenians or Western-Armenians picking fights with this "layer" of the Mexican-American community?

 

You need to at least acknowledge that there is a problem in order to be able to try to solve it.

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The real question is, why do Russians hate Russian Armenians?Why aren't they getting along with Mexican-Americans in L.A.?

 

Because generally criminals and ethnic gangs don't coexist too well.

 

 

Besides, granted, the migrant Armenians might not have an exemplary image, but is that the only side of the matter to be discussed? Is is just the criminality of the minority that leads to such actions? I am certainly not the one to label all homicides hate crimes, but this is a post-Soviet society. Not all is well, I'm sure.

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry you find diversity to be equivalent to "division". (It sounds like an American labeling multiculturalism as "racism" or "segregation".)

 

I do not see "diversity" and division as equal. Judging by your metaphor, you have obviously misunderstood.

 

When for a lack of a better term I say division, I mean the idiotic breach caused by the pompous and holier than thou attitude with which every -read again, EVERY- single Armenian faction views and treats the other.

 

What in the world is the purpose of that? How does that improve our situation, our problems?

 

 

Talking about reality often hurts, especially if it's not your ideal reality.

 

As I have said before, I am well aware of the reality. Yet in my opinion, I think it is a mistake to confuse the real Us and Them (lawful members of a diaspora versus criminal individuals that exist in any given community) with Us the Armenians versus them the Armenians. The truth IS out, but such labeling doesn't solve a thing.

 

Now lets think: Why is crime widespread in ex-Soviet republics, esp. the RoA?

 

 

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When for a lack of a better term I say division, I mean the idiotic breach caused by the pompous and holier than thou attitude with which every -read again, EVERY- single Armenian faction views and treats the other.

There is no holier than thou here. You shouldn't find any offense when I directly refer to a particular segment of the Armenian community. In this case, it is a sizeable fraction of the Russian Armenian community (I think around 25%). In other discussions, we have talked about community segments by political party, e.g. the ARF. This is no different. These segments in the community exist, and in order to intelligently talk about the community, you can't disregard these segments but must refer to them.

 

What in the world is the purpose of that? How does that improve our situation, our problems?

In order to solve a problem, you must first learn what the the problem is. Where is the problem? Who is part of the problem? Who is part of the solution? Why does the problem exist? Who is the problem affecting?

 

As I have said before, I am well aware of the reality. Yet in my opinion, I think it is a mistake to confuse the real Us and Them (lawful members of a diaspora versus criminal individuals that exist in any given community) with Us the Armenians versus them the Armenians. The truth IS out, but such labeling doesn't solve a thing.

Same response as above. You shouldn't find offense in referring to a particular segment of the Armenian community. Many Diasporan Armenian communities have changed drastically in demographics in the last 15 years. Los Angeles is probably the one that's experienced the most change, and I have experienced first hand a portion of that.

 

To place all Armenians into one group and label them all Armenians does not represent the reality of diverse Armenian communities such as the one in Los Angeles. You won't be able to understand the dynamics of an Armenian community by not referring to various Armenian cultures/backgrounds and various Armenian community and political organizations.

 

Now lets think: Why is crime widespread in ex-Soviet republics, esp. the RoA?

That is a very good question that needs discussion. Let's add another question. Why aren't Armenians from the RoA involved in Armenian community organizations in the Diaspora in proportion to their numbers? What do we need to do to change this situation, so that they are more involved in the community, and to have positive role models?

Edited by Shahan Araradian
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If they are "russian" armenians what type of armenian are you Shahen? Turkish? Arabic?

 

WTF man? An armenian is an armenian. Every nation has criminals and thugs. Why are you discriminating people from your own nationality?

 

Haven't you seen black gangs or mexican gangs? Or are you gonna tell me that all mexicans are gangsters or all blacks are thiefs?

 

I think you should stop hating and labling people and be more tolerant.

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If they are "russian" armenians what type of armenian are you Shahen? Turkish? Arabic?

I am actually a Western Armenian from Lebanon.

 

WTF man? An armenian is an armenian. Every nation has criminals and thugs. Why are you discriminating people from your own nationality?

There are sub-cultures, and talking about them doesn't mean I'm discriminating. For example, there are French Quebecois and French from France. Talking about each doesn't mean to be discriminating one. The evolution of French history led to French people living in the new world to develop a separate culture and language than mainland France. Now the culture is not entirely different than the one in France, but there are some differences, e.g. in the usage of the language and culturally. Same goes with Western Armenians, Russian Armenians, and Iranian-Armenians. To be talking about each in its own light does not mean one is "discriminating"; it simply means he's talking about each in its own light.

 

Haven't you seen black gangs or mexican gangs? Or are you gonna tell me that all mexicans are gangsters or all blacks are thiefs?

No. And if you read what I wrote, you'll see that I've been careful to point out that I'm not generalizing to all Russian Armenians, but to around a quarter of them. That's my estimate of the numbers.

 

I think you should stop hating and labling people and be more tolerant.

I think you should learn to read and understand another person's writings. This isn't about "hating"; this is about addressing problems of the Armenian community. No one should be expected to "tolerate" mediocrity.

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