Another Victim Of Hatred by Russian nationalism and Skinheads in Russi

[Dave]

Եթէ Հայկական դպրոց գացող Հայը այսպէս կ՛ընէ, ինչպէ՛ս կը վարուի Ամերիկեան դպրոց գացող Հայ երիտասարդը:

 

Besides, you can't blame them for wanting to be like everybody else and living normal lives in the US.

The importance is that they grew up in an Armenian ambiance.

 

I should remind you that Hayastantsis have arrived only recently, unlike others who - I presume - have been in LA for decades.

[MadArmo]

The question of West vs. East is fabricated by our enemies, They almost had success dividing Armenians by relocation and years of injustice.

 

 

I'm neither Yervantsi or Beriutsi, Hybrid Armenian if you question me direct.

 

 

I'm Armenian regardless of what anyone says or thinks. I broke the chains of slavery long ago upon my arrival in Los Angeles. I too know of the good, bad & ugly but that's not justification for passing judgement onto other fellow Armenians regardless of their station in life. We need the bad to protect the innocent, the Good to compensate for their deeds... The ugly to show were not only the ones... It's human nature and we earned the right to participate regardless of anyones perseption of us. I really don't care honestly, I give you credit for coming out in the open to take heat, But the sooner you stop beliving the lies about russian Armenians are most of the criminal eliments the better... I have to disagree the major players just happen to be diasporan Armenians who recruited the new arrivals with false hope. In the early 80's when still considered a FAB I guess, I worked on Hill st. for a major diamond cutter from beriut, He sold drugs, women, stolen cars and even had cops on his payroll... He wanted me to join his ranks amongs crooks, thugs, murderers and promised me the high life. I rejected it, and thank the Lord I'm a better person because of it... So, Guilty by association is not valid and please next time anyone asks what kind of an Armenian you are? kindly reply the BEST !

 

 

 

Armenians answer the call !

[Harut]

what irritates me is that we have a person murdered, yet some question his persona because of his origins, so though if he was a "typical" hayastanci, mersedes driving, basturma eating, bullying around, making money illegally, materialistic, etc. his murder would be justified... yeah, we shouldn't be "too quick to defend" the guy...

[MadArmo]

what irritates me is that we have a person murdered, yet some question his persona because of his origins, so though if he was a "typical" hayastanci, mersedes driving, basturma eating, bullying around, making money illegally, materialistic, etc. his murder would be justified... yeah, we shouldn't be "too quick to defend" the guy...

 

 

My prayers goes out to his family & friends...

 

I agree, The person may have done good deeds indeed and we never knew... So, I sugest we collectivley reject any typical generalizing of Yervantsi or others who wish do segregate us into catagories such as eastern or western. It's void of common sense or logic... We are Armenian that's all people, Stop the division or banishment of kinsmen. United cause to erase all negetivity and eradicate internal conflicts to end such roadblocks.

 

 

I'll like to remind everyone of a simple fact... Armenians united can conquer it all !

 

 

Armenians answer the call !

 

 

 

 

 

[Zartonk]

Այսօրուայ մեր «challenge»ը աւելի հող ապահովել չէ:

 

Համաձայն էմ ձեր այս խոսքի հէտ, ոնց որ Հայէրը դէռ չգիտեն մէր մի բուռ երկրի արժեքը:

 

Անոր համար, միշտ պիտի բորձէ անձը ինքզինքէն երկու, երկեք, տասը աստիճան աւելի բարձր մարդու հետ փախդատել ինք երեն, ընկերակցի անոր հետ եւ սորվի՛ անորմէ որպէսզի կրնայ ինքն ալ բարձրանալ: Պարապի չէ որ Հրեաները կ'ըսէն թէ երբ ընկեր զատես, պէտք է որ ընկերանաս քեզմէ մի քանի աստիճան բարձր մարդոց հետ:

 

Եթէ կարէլի է, բացադրէք բարձրըւթիան միտկը:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Error 404]

Shahen,

 

I agree with you on critical issues concerning our nation.

We can find criminals and descent personalities within every nation. That shows how segregated the society within the nation is.

 

The issues you have mentioned above is not going to change in one hour or one day. They are not going to read your post here and understand their mistakes and change for good.

 

We need time. Alot of time. Even generations must pass.

 

In the mean time we can only try our best to teach the young and old to respect each other to unite and to identify our real enemies. To live and know what is our cause.

 

I am sorry to mention this but all I have noticed in your speech and behaviour is that you are trying to deepen the segregation within our nation by calling some parskahay, beyrutahay or russian armenian. This is not the right way to address the issue. Show more tolerance and respect please.

 

Bolors el hay enq yev piti mtacenq mer azgi ancyali u apagai masin.

Edited April 17, 2007 by Error 404

[Nor Hayastan]

Bolors el hay enq yev piti mtacenq mer azgi ancyali u apagai masin.

 

2000 tari i ver hayers mer gluxner@ talis einq pati, cheinq haskanum vor ays bazhanumner@ aveli vnas en qan lav mer hamar, u cavaqcum em vor himakva serundn el nayev sharunakum e ayt sovorutyun@ minjev aysor.

[Shahan Araradian]

Lsi Shahan jan, yete zruyc@ ays janaparhov e gnalu, uremn togh yes andzamp myus koghm@ nerkayacnem! Yes 10-erort dasaranic minj 12-erort dasaran usanel em AGBU Manoogian-Demirdjian. Yes teghapoxvelov aystegh Los Angeles, shat huzvac ei vor arraji anqam piti usanei ZUT HAYKAKAN dproc. Yete chgiteq Shahan jan, usanoghneri mecamasnutyun@ kam "Polsahay" ein, kam el "Beiruci" ays dprocum. Poxanak usanoghner@ hayeren xosayin irar het, angleren ein xosum. Arravel yevs, usanoghner@ chein hetaqrqrvum haykakan mshakuytov, ayl inch nor baner e katarvum pop culture-i mej amerikayum. Dzer asac "Hayastancin" vor ayt mersedesn e qshum (vor@ asem, shat chapazancvac e ayt xosqer@ et dzer "Hayastanci" martkanc), aveli shat e pahpanum Hay voqin ira yerexaneri mej qan Beirutahay, kam Polsahay, kam urish hay. Misht bacarrutyunner kan, bayc @nthanur armamp inch vor yes em nkatel, ayt em asum. Yerp vor mi ban aytpes piti nerkayacnes Shahan jan, misht myus koghmn el nerkayacru. Inchpes ayt angleren asacvacq@ ka che? "There are two-sides to every coin," nuyn@ astegh sirelis.

 

U mi ban el asem, yes anqam xosacel em cnoghneri het ayt dprocum, u shater@ chen hetaqrqrvum haykakan mshakuytov kam lezvov ayt dprocum. Miak patjarr@ vor ugharkum en irenc yeraxnerin ayntegh, qani vor sepakan dproc e. Menak AGBU-n chi, bolor myus haykakan dprocner@ nuynpes. Yev yete cnoghner@ chhetaqrqrven hay mshakuytov, apa yerexaner@ inchpes piti hetaqrqrven? I dep Beirutahay/Suriahay/Polsahay aselis hayer@ vor duq cheq nshum vorpes "Hayastanci," ay hima parz e te inchu cheq nshum. U yes aytpes el gitei, qani vor past e yerp vor mart "Hayatanci" e asum, anmijakanoren patkeracnum e ayn mart@ 1) Mersedes-ov 2) Anorenq gorcerov zbaghvac 3) Rabiz haqnvac 4) Voch hayastanci xntirnerov hetaqrqrvac... yev ayln

 

Heriq e sirelis ayspes paraxtumner drven hay azgi mej. Mer patmutyun@ mez apacucel e aveli shat vat e yeghel ayspes bazhanvac qan miacac. Ays anunneri xaghn el miayn brrtum e ayt sxal@ araj...

Ասոնք լաւ կէտեր են բայց քեզի վերյիշեցնեմ յետեւեալ կետերուն -

Ա. Խօսքս բոլոր Հայաստանցիներուն չէ՝ այլ շուրչ քարորդին:

 

Բ. Առանց հայկական դպրոցի եւ առանց հայկական միութեան հայկական գաղութ գոյութիւն չ'ունենար: Հայաստանցիներուն մեծ մասը (դժբախդաբար) ոչ հայկական դպրոց կը յաճախեն, ոչ ալ միութենական են: (եւ խօսքս մեծ մասին համար է, ոչթէ միայն քարորդին Ուրեմն ո՞րմէկը աւելի լաւ է կ'ըսես. որ հայ մը օտար դպրոց երդայ, հայերէն գրել, կարդալ ու շնորհքով խօսիլ չի գիտնայ, հայոց պատմութիւն չի գիտնայ, եւ օտար դպրոցը անգելերէն սորվի. ԿԱՄ հայ մը հայկական դպրոց երդայ, Հայկական շրչանակ ունենայ (թէեւ անգլերէն կրնան խօսիլ), հայերէն գրել, կարդալ ու կանոնաւոր խօոսիլ սորվին: Ես կ'ըսեմ երկրո՛րդը: Հոգ չէ որ անգլերէն խօսին: Ասի քաղաքի եւ երկրէն կախում ունի: Հրեական դպրոց եթէ երդաս նոյնն է: Կարեւորն է որ հայերէն գիտնան գրել, կարդալ, ու լաւ խօսիլ, հայոց պատմութիւն իմանալ, հայկական գաղութին մաս կազմել, եւ հայկական հոգին ներշնչուի որպէսզի ապագային իրենք ալ ըլլան գաղութի ղեկավարներ:

 

Գ. Եթէ գաղութի անդամ մը յառաչդիմութեան տեղ կը տեսնայ գաղութի դպրոցի կամ միութեան մէջ ի՛ր պարտականութիւնն է որ մասնակցի եւ բարձրացնէ գաղութը: Քու օրինակիդ գալով՝ եթէ կը տեսնաս թէ բաւական հայրենասիրութիւն չկայ Մարի Մանուկեան վարժարանը, ուրեմն որպէս այդ գաղութին անդամ քու ալ պարտականութիւնդ է որ մաս կազմես անոր ու մշակես ինչպէս որ կ'երեւակայես: Հայկական դպրոցները առանցիննին չէն շինուած: Ամերիկեան կարավարութիւնը չէ կարուցած: Ամէն մէկուն ետէւը հայ անհատներ եղած են որոնք հաւաքականութեամբ աշխատելով (միութենական ըլլալով) այդ գործը տեսած են: Քանի՞ հատ դպրոց հիմնած են Հայաստանցիները Լոս Անճելըսի մէջ որ կը քննադատես Պոլսահայերուն եւ այլ արեւմտահայերուն: Նոյնիսկ մէկ հատ հիմնա՞ծ են: Ինչո՞ւ այդպէս է: Շատ դիւրին է քննադատել գործ մը: Բայց գործ ստեղծելը, դպրոց հիմնելը, միութիւն հիմնելը դիւրին բաններ չէն: ԵԹԷ ՀԱՅՐԵՆԱՍԷՐԸ ԿԸ ՓՆՏՐԵՍ, ԿԸ ԳՏՆԱՍ ԱՆՈՐ ՈԵՒԷ ՀԱՅԿԱԿԱՆ ԳԱՂՈՒԹԻ ՄԷՋ (ըլլայ ՀԲԸՄ կամ ըլլայ ՀՅԴ եւ այլն): Ինչպէս խօսքը կ'ըսէ «You find what you're looking for».

 

Դ. Կարելի՞ է որ հայերէն տառերով գրես: Յաճելի չէ հայերէնը լատին տառերով կարդալ եւ երկու ազգ գիտեմ որ այդպէս կ'ընեն իրենց լեզուով եւ հայերը իրենց վրան կը խնդան թէ մշակոյթ չ'ունին: Եկեք մենք ալ նոյնը չ'ընենք: (Երկու ազգերը մեր սիրելի թուրք եւ ազերիներն են Հետեւեալ կայքը բացատրութիւն կու տայ թէ ինչպէս Windows XPն կրնաս դասաւորել՝ http://www.armunicode.org/en/how-to/winxp/

Edited April 18, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Shahan Araradian]

Shahen,

 

I agree with you on critical issues concerning our nation.

We can find criminals and descent personalities within every nation. That shows how segregated the society within the nation is.

 

The issues you have mentioned above is not going to change in one hour or one day. They are not going to read your post here and understand their mistakes and change for good.

 

We need time. Alot of time. Even generations must pass.

 

In the mean time we can only try our best to teach the young and old to respect each other to unite and to identify our real enemies. To live and know what is our cause.

 

I am sorry to mention this but all I have noticed in your speech and behaviour is that you are trying to deepen the segregation within our nation by calling some parskahay, beyrutahay or russian armenian. This is not the right way to address the issue. Show more tolerance and respect please.

 

Bolors el hay enq yev piti mtacenq mer azgi ancyali u apagai masin.

Տարբեր տեսակի հայերու մասին խօսելով բաժանած չենք ըլլար մեր ժողովուրդը: Այս ի՞նչ խօսքեր են: Շատ պարզ բան է որ տարբեր տեսակի հայեր կան եւ տարբեր մշակոյթով: Պարսկահայի մը կենցաղը կը տարբերի Հայաստանցիէն կը տարբերի արեւմտահայէն:

 

Կրնաս ամէն օր ինքզինքիդ ըսել թէ վաղը առտու արեւը պիտի չի ծագի: Բայց վաղը արեւը պիտի ծագի:

 

Կրնաս ամէն օր տասը անգամ ըսել թէ Հայաստանցիի կենցաղը հաւասար է Պարսկահային հաւասար է Արեւմտահային: Բայց այդ չի փոխէր իրականութիւնը:

 

Եւ եթէ յարաչդիմութիւն տեղի պիտի ունենայ՝ պէտք է անդրադառնալ բոլոր տեսակի հայերը եւ ամէն մէկուն կենցաղը: Միայն այս ձեւով է որ «միասնական» ձեւով մարդիկ կրնան աշխատիլ:

Edited April 18, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Shahan Araradian]

Եթէ կարէլի է, բացադրէք բարձրըւթիան միտկը:

Թէ անձ մը ինչ կը տեսնայ «բարձր» անձնական որոշում է:

[Armenak]

Bert Vaux, a linguist who specializes in Armenian, advocates teaming Armenian youngsters with grandparents as the most effective way of learning the language.

 

I'm trying to find a study of his on the fate of the Armenian language in the United States.

[Shahan Araradian]

Bert Vaux, a linguist who specializes in Armenian, advocates teaming Armenian youngsters with grandparents as the most effective way of learning the language.

 

I'm trying to find a study of his on the fate of the Armenian language in the United States.

Why do that when you can attend an Armenian school or join ՀՄԸՄ where you can speak Armenian WITH PEOPLE YOUR AGE?

 

Do we need to ask a non-Armenian linguist who "specializes in Armenian" for this wisdom? (Խօսքը կ'ըսէ... When seeking advice, make sure to choose your advisers carefully.)

Edited April 18, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Shahan Araradian]

We need time. Alot of time. Even generations must pass.

That suggests doing nothing and to "wait and see."

 

I don't take that approach nor agree with it. By being passive and "waiting and seeing" you've given up your fate to chance. And a no-op in this world means you won't realize the reality you have visualized.

Edited April 18, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Armenak]

Why do that when you can attend an Armenian school or join ՀՄԸՄ where you can speak Armenian WITH PEOPLE YOUR AGE?

We are not living in Beirut circa 1960. I have been active in all of these organizations. While we're at it, let's also add AYF to this list. All the kids and teens speak English. Weren't you the one who said this originally? And that Montreal is the only city in North America where young Armenians speak with each other in Armenian?

[Error 404]

That suggests doing nothing and to "wait and see."

 

I don't take that approach nor agree with it. By being passive and "waiting and seeing" you've given up your fate to chance. And a no-op in this world means you won't realize the reality you have visualized.

 

You have probably not understood what my point was. I didn't mean to wait but I didn't also mean to start a revolution which is not possible.

 

Shahan what do you want to do. Actually what can you do? Can you change things in one day? How? Tell us please. Do you think whatever you have mentioned here bothers only you? DO you think noone here noticed the issues you have mentioned above? Are you the only wise guy here?

 

Do you think you can do something unique to change the things and others can't?

 

Oh yeah! By segregating within your nation you will find what you are looking for.

 

P.S. There is no justification for the killed armenian teenagers by russian neonazi scumbags! NO JUSTIFICATION!

Edited April 18, 2007 by Error 404

[MosJan]

MURDER OF ARMENIAN DISCLOSED IN MOSCOW

 

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article's photo

The Moscow law enforcers have disclosed the slaying of 46-year-old Karen Abrahamyan, committed Monday in the southwest of Moscow. The police said the assassination was committed in Kedrov street at about 10 p.m. “Three unknown skinheads in high boots assaulted Abrahamyan and stabbed him with a knife several times. As the victim told when being conveyed to hospital, he was assaulted because of his nationality, since the young men were crying out nationalistic slogans. Abrahamyan died in the operating-room. The Moscow law enforces identified and detained the assassins, who have already pleaded guilty, Interfax reports.

[MosJan]

SUSPECTS OF MURDERING ARMENIAN IMMIGRANT UNDER ARREST

 

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article's photo

On suspicion of murdering Armenian immigrant on April 16 in Moscow two students have been arrested, Moscow Prosecutors’ Office reports. “On suspicion of murdering Abramian by hooligan motives two students from Moscow colleges - Arthur Ryno, a resident from Khabarovsk born in 1989, and Pavel Skachevski, a Moscow resident born in 1989, have been arrested,” says the official statement of the Prosecutor’s Office. Karen Abramian died in hospital in the result of multiple knife wounds. “On April 18 by Prosecutors’ Office application the Moscow Cheryomushkinski District Court issued a warranty of taking into custody the suspects as a preventive punishment,” the press release of Prosecutors; Office says.

[Shahan Araradian]

We are not living in Beirut circa 1960. I have been active in all of these organizations. While we're at it, let's also add AYF to this list. All the kids and teens speak English. Weren't you the one who said this originally? And that Montreal is the only city in North America where young Armenians speak with each other in Armenian?

The response was directed at the strategy of using grandparents to teach Armenian. We've evolved to the point where we've got Armenian schools and numerous Armenian youth organizations (not to mention the importance of Armenian parents speaking in Armenian to their children at home). All of these ways are ample to preserve the Armenian language *if used*. Now whether or not they are used rests on a number of factors, of which no small part is played by the city and country in which one resides in.

 

Armenian culture hasn't evolved yet (at least not in the mainstream) to the point that it can survive indefinitely in "Western" / "developed" nations (unlike Jewish culture, possibly the only culture that's evolved in the mainstream to the point where it can survive anywhere -- this is a result of over 2,000 years of evolution).

 

Los Angeles in particular, and the U.S. in general, are not welcoming to multi-culturalism as is Quebec in particular, and Canada in general. That is why I see Montreal as the only sustainable Armenian community in North America.

 

Now this isn't to say one should give up and not continue to practice Armenian culture. In my experience, the extent to which Armenian is spoken in an organization like AYF or ՀՄԸՄ varies from region to region, city to city.

 

In any case, being part of an Armenian organization (whether the language of communication of the organization is Armenian or English) is better than not being part of any Armenian organization, and hence not being part of community life. It is always individuals who transform community organizations for the better, and in most North American cities, it is the continued influx of Armenians from the Middle East (and sometimes from Canada and France) who give them new life. It's my personal opinion that sustainability is a way's to go in the cultural evolution of Armenians in the West.

[Shahan Araradian]

You have probably not understood what my point was. I didn't mean to wait but I didn't also mean to start a revolution which is not possible.

That's one way to look at it. Let me remind you that for centuries mainstream Armenians did not know how to read or write in Armenian. That all changed in ONE generation, starting from the late 18th century in a Venetian island.

 

Shahan what do you want to do. Actually what can you do? Can you change things in one day? How? Tell us please.

You can't change nontrivial things in one day. But change comes gradually one day at a time:

1. Identify the problem

2. Discuss solutions

3. Pick the best solution(s)

4. Implement the best solution(s) religiously

 

Do you think whatever you have mentioned here bothers only you?

No. If I thought that, then by now I would have forgotten about being part of the Armenian community, and would join another one. I'd become a savvy, self-serving capitalist or maybe convert to Judaism.

 

DO you think noone here noticed the issues you have mentioned above?

No. People have noticed. What bothers me is that no one talks about it, and by not being addressed and never discussed the problems never get solved.

 

Are you the only wise guy here?

No. Wisdom is in the masses.

 

Do you think you can do something unique to change the things and others can't?

No. I believe every human is born with the same capabilities. But behavior is defined by conditioning and embedded in the form of experience. To understand a man, you must look at his conditioning. That's what separates one man from the next.

 

Oh yeah! By segregating within your nation you will find what you are looking for.

For the last time, addressing particular groups in the Armenian community that DO exist -- whether by organizational lines or cultural and geographical liens -- is not segregating, just in the same way that it's not segregating to be talking about people from different parts of the U.S.: Southern Californians are very different from New Yorkers or Northern Californians, all of whom are very different from Americans from Helena, Montana. There's no denying the differences in behavioral patterns. (And BTW I don't think those behavioral patterns are set in stone; they can improve and in our lifetime.)

 

P.S. There is no justification for the killed armenian teenagers by russian neonazi scumbags! NO JUSTIFICATION!

I'm not trying to find justification. My point is that without knowing details, you cannot jump to conclusions that it was a hate crime. Given the level of detail in the original article you couldn't conclude anything other than a man was killed.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Error 404]

Shahan yugh es varum ...

[MosJan]

VANDALS DESECRATED ARMENIAN CHAPEL OF KIEV

 

 

Last Sunday unknown people have committed an act of vandalism towards Armenian Apostolic Church desecrating a chapel, which belongs to that confession. The Armenian chapel was covered by images of swastika and splashed with red paint. The chapel was desecrated several hours after it was inaugurated by representatives of Eparchy administration of the Armenian Church, who said they have doubts concerning organizers of this vandalism, Ukrainian media reports. Earlier residents of Podolski district of Kiev protested against construction of the chapel and turned to the court demanding to ban construction works in the rest zone.

[yerevanforeigner6]

Why??? Why that Armenian was killed?? Human nature is evil..

Things won't change just from one day to another...

[yerevanforeigner6]

Can anyone give me the link to the Russian article about this murder case? Spacibo , thanks

[Error 404]

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Moscow police investigates murder of an Armenian citizen in the eastern district of the Russian capital. The body of 30-year-old Aharon Tigranyan was discovered yesterday near the entrance of №15 house on the Rudnevka street, law enforcement bodies informed. According to medical examination A. Tigranyan died in the result of plural knife wounds. The police has filed a criminal case. The investigation works out all versions of what happened, including murder on national ground, Russian media report.

[abass80]

an update on the previous post!

 

Suspected Byelorussian citizen arrested in connection with Armenian citizen’s murder in Moscow

25.05.2007 19:55 GMT+04:00

 

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ A suspected Byelorussian citizen is arrested in Moscow in connection with Armenian citizen Aharon Tigranyan’s murder. The body of 30-year-old Aharont Tigranyan was discovered yesterday near the entrance of №15 house on the Rudnevka street. According to medical examination A. Tigranyan died in the result of plural knife wounds. The police has filed a criminal case. Aharon and Ashot Tigranyans lived in the above-mentioned house, RFE RL reports. A source in Moscow Eastern Prosecutor’s Office informed Aharon Tigranyan and the Byelorussian suspect had a quarrel before the incident.