Interracial Dating Among Armenians?

[Takoush]

Dear Jack:

 

Obviously I didn't know all the circumstances of the situation as you have just wrote it to me and filled me in. That is a desporable situation for the poor Armenian wife and what horrible ordeals she went through to have her dead child inside of her for many months. I can't imagine the horrifickness of the situation. I am a woman and a mother and I can only say that it's horrible.

 

See? The Lebanese Christian people I have met years ago in Montreal, Canada where I came from before coming to the United States, were very nice. Very close to us and they seemed to be not minding at all to integrate and or be mixed with us. Now years later you tell me it's different in Lebanon. Things have either changed or the ones that came to Canada were acting differently. But through the years everything has changed and instead, people have detriorated.

 

Anyhow; I understand you pitying the poor Armenian woman, and it is very nice of you that you have supported her to make her life better, to be living with her dominant, bigot and cruel husband.

 

However, now that I know the circumstances, and I mean I heard enough; no, of course not, I wouldn't recommend your son to be mingled with these people. However, on the other hand I feel sorry for their beautiful and their young daughters to be going through all that, living in that kind of a household. How horrible for them too. I feel so bad for them, really.

 

The answer to your question would be to not get involved your son with them; but try to help the poor woman and her three beautiful little girls if you can, or as much as you possibly can.

 

God bless you and your family!!!!!

 

Anahid

 

 

 

 

Thank you for the feedback but cant see why the lebanese Christians are closest to us,they hate us to our guts,specialy when they see us talking our own language among us ,the mere mentioning the name Armenia to them they take it as an personal insult.Their only consolation lyes in seeing us dumping our heritage as they did.

 

we descovered taht This womens husband introduced his wife .who is 100% armenian as a greek to his aquantances!!.on the other hand we pity the wife who seems to regret to the bones from the neglect she has been suffering from her husband and family over a dispute that he wants to have another baby, a son, but she insists that she doesnt want to.it seems that she has lost a four months baby when she was pregnant and they left the dead baby inside her for 5 more months obviously expacting a miracle,so she was afraid from this experiance.and now as she said to us the husband is threatening to have a child from another woman in case she rejected the idea!!.on the other hand she looks despatate to give her children to armenians...!!this is so horrible me and my wife we cant take her out of our minds and we are realy suffering for her situation .

 

last moth upon our insistance the husband at last bought her a small japanese car so that at least she can go to the city for the nesesery things.

 

She, his husband and 3 children they live in a house of 2 stories together with her father and mother in law,her sister and brother in law and their 3 children what is the chance of our kid surviving as armenian in such an arabic enviroment why should we take the unnesesery risk you think.

 

jack

[Heavy G]

My buisness, you don't HAVE to marry an Armenian just to preserve your genotype, but if you can, than by all means. When Armenian girls mix though, the second generation is almost automatically shifted towards the dad's side of heritage. Probably a bad idea for Armenian women to mix...

[armjan]

My buisness, you don't HAVE to marry an Armenian just to preserve your genotype, but if you can, than by all means. When Armenian girls mix though, the second generation is almost automatically shifted towards the dad's side of heritage. Probably a bad idea for Armenian women to mix...

interesting, can you explain why "the second generation is almost automatically shifted towards the dad's side"?

 

One would think that girls are prolly closer to their mothers than fathers, so i'm curious to hear your thoughts on it

Edited April 23, 2006 by armjan

[Heavy G]

Okay....well, the most abvious one is the name change. They won't have that Armenian "yan," "ian," etc. making them not feel AS Armenian as they should be. Like someone with a latin last name will 99% of the time be considered hispanic, even if their half......and thats just based on the last name. So, by someone having an Armenian last name, their viewed as more Armenian, believe it or not...If someone with a last name, say....Wilson, told you their Armenian, how much would you really believe them, how much would they believe in their Armenian roots if no one recognizes them as Armenian off the bat? Not in all cases, but c'mon, this here is a little common sense.

 

And its just general, dads usually set the pace or tone in all families...

Edited April 24, 2006 by Heavy G

[aSoldier]

Okay....well, the most abvious one is the name change. They won't have that Armenian "yan," "ian," etc. making them not feel AS Armenian as they should be. Like someone with a latin last name will 99% of the time be considered hispanic, even if their half......and thats just based on the last name. So, by someone having an Armenian last name, their viewed as more Armenian, believe it or not...If someone with a last name, say....Wilson, told you their Armenian, how much would you really believe them, how much would they believe in their Armenian roots if no one recognizes them as Armenian off the bat? Not in all cases, but c'mon, this here is a little common sense.

 

And its just general, dads usually set the pace or tone in all families...

 

Sure, but I know many pure Armenians who don't carry the yan/ian, even in my own family

[KGB]

I think that it's proper for Armenians living abroad to strive to keep the blood pure; however, there are many Armenians I know who have miserable marriages because they decided to do this. I think that if one is able to marry an Armenian and truly knows that that person is "the one," then that's great for them and great for the race. Most importantly, though, a person should do what is best for him/her, then worry about preserving the pureness of future generations. If the cost of having children who are 100% Armenian is a miserable marriage, then I think that's a bad deal: the costs outweigh the benefits. I would rather have a happy marriage with children who are half-Armenian than sacrifice my life and happiness so that my children will grown up in a miserable family that is 100% Armenian. Edited April 30, 2006 by KGB

[Takoush]

KGB:

 

What you said above seems to be logical; but the fact of the matter is that in most instances one who is about to marry doesn't really know what he or she is getting into. Like I said, with all due respect to a few exceptions; but not in most cases.

 

Therefore; how would you know if it's going to be right for you marrying a non-Armenian versus an Armenian? That is the question. You may think that the non-Armenian woman or man is better than the Armenian one; but again, you cannot be sure that how they conduct themselves now will continue to be the same after marriage.

Edited April 30, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

[KGB]

KGB:

 

What you said above seems to be logical; but the fact of the matter is that in most instances one who is about to marry doesn't really know what he or she is getting into. Like I said, with all due respect to a few exceptions; but not in most cases.

Anahid,

 

Yes, I understand that many people rush into marriage, but I don't see how this is relevant. I understand that Armenians share certain characteristics which are almost intangible and that these characteristics are essentially the glue that keeps them together. However, this is not all that should be relied upon, especially under the current conditions that diasporans live under.

 

From your last sentence, it seems you are referring to that initial spark which attracts two people, then grows into a raging fire, and finally calms down and becomes a pile of burning embers. Basically, the spark and huge fire feel like they will last forever, but they never do. The burning embers are what are most important: there must be fuel for them to continue glowing, so that the heat does not vanish. To get to my point, Armenians know each other well enough to understand HOW to provide fuel for those embers. However, this is an idealized situation which I'm referring to. There are plenty of miserable Armenian marriages out there - I've seen them with my own eyes and they are basically the reason why I made my original post. If you had seen these marriages as well you might agree with me and see that my argument contains more logic than you may think.

[KGB]

KGB:

 

Therefore; how would you know if it's going to be right for you marrying a non-Armenian versus an Armenian? That is the question. You may think that the non-Armenian woman or man is better than the Armenian one; but again, you cannot be sure that how they conduct themselves now will continue to be the same after marriage.

I would be able to predict the Armenian's behavior much better than the non-Armenian's behavior.

[Takoush]

I would be able to predict the Armenian's behavior much better than the non-Armenian's behavior.

Dear KGB:

 

Ironically, I am now preparing myself to go to my cousin's all Armenian engagement party; therefore I cannot answer you right now.

 

I'll answer you probably by tomorrow.

 

In the meantime, stay well.

Edited April 30, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

[Arpa]

Dear KGB:

 

Ironically, I am now preparing myself to go to my cousin's all Armenian engagement party; therefore I cannot answer you right now.

 

I'll answer you probably by tomorrow.

 

In the meantime, stay well.

We sympathize with you.

Edited May 1, 2006 by Arpa

[aSoldier]

No offence Arpa but you have some issues man.

[Takoush]

Anahid,

 

Yes, I understand that many people rush into marriage, but I don't see how this is relevant. I understand that Armenians share certain characteristics which are almost intangible and that these characteristics are essentially the glue that keeps them together. However, this is not all that should be relied upon, especially under the current conditions that diasporans live under.

 

Did you grasp what I am saying KGB? I was not saying only rushing into marriage, but a great many men and women conceal their true characters and try their best to hide their true colors to get themselves into marriage for whatever their reasons might be at the time. Though some rush into marriage while others do not; yet they still get into it without really knowing what they're really getting into.

 

From your last sentence, it seems you are referring to that initial spark which attracts two people, then grows into a raging fire, and finally calms down and becomes a pile of burning embers. Basically, the spark and huge fire feel like they will last forever, but they never do. The burning embers are what are most important: there must be fuel for them to continue glowing, so that the heat does not vanish. To get to my point, Armenians know each other well enough to understand HOW to provide fuel for those embers. However, this is an idealized situation which I'm referring to. There are plenty of miserable Armenian marriages out there - I've seen them with my own eyes and they are basically the reason why I made my original post. If you had seen these marriages as well you might agree with me and see that my argument contains more logic than you may think.

 

The fire and the embers you're talking about are irrelevant when it comes to a union between a man and a woman whether it's an Armenian union or not. At this point be it a union between two Armenians or one being an Armenian and the other isn't. When it becomes a union between 'Mars' and 'Venus', the relevant differences between them still apply whether they are both Armenian or not, as in most marriages one seems to want to control the other; and the one that is the weaker adheres to the more stronger partner.

 

Now you can bring about an argument that between two Armenian partners, sometimes the man expects more of his wife, btw; understanding, modesty or rendering to modesty, etc. etc. However, the same exact differences do apply when the union is between a man and a woman. It doesn't matter much whether the nationality is the same or it is different.

 

The fire and or the preservation of the fire is relevant to the couple, their willingnes to have a successful and a lifelong marriage and the willingness to preserve their love; as we all well know that in a marriage you must work for it continuously to make it a lifelong and a successful marriage.

 

Now my point was since most of us, the Armenians are in the diaspora; to preserve and lengthen our identity it is imperative or almost imperative to be involved and marry our own kind. That is basically what I am referring to. In any matrimonial union you will take that chance regardless; wouldn't it be better to take that chance with an Armenian partner like yourself for the preservation of our nationality. Obviously when you happen to fall in love with that special person that you'll make it your other half.

[Takoush]

KGB:

 

For your last argument about all Armenian marriages that you have seen them to be failures. I can only say on that account that perhaps the partners should try to date each other for a lengthier time and try to get to know each other better, hopefully. Unfortunately the divorce rate in the U.S. is far too great. I still should like to think that the Armenian divorces are not as great as the non-Armenian ones; but I think in some cases when an Armenian marries another Armenian nowadays, they either get divorced or they continue to stay in the marriage and suffer, usually because of their offsprings.

 

I still think that in general Armenian women do make better wives and mothers and Armenian men do make better husbands and fathers.

[KGB]

Anahid,

 

My original point was that getting married to an Armenian - forcing an Armenian marriage that should not be - simply in order to "preserve the race" is harmful. All the other uncertanties and things associated with getting married are not what I was talking about.

[Eva]

Just take a break from dating, just kidding,,,well what if you meet a person who isn't the same nationality as you are,, you fall in love, then what?? should you continue dating him or just erase him from your life,,I think if you really love someone and care for that individual then go for it...

[Takoush]

Anahid,

 

My original point was that getting married to an Armenian - forcing an Armenian marriage that should not be - simply in order to "preserve the race" is harmful. All the other uncertanties and things associated with getting married are not what I was talking about.

KGB:

 

I never said at any time you must force yourself to marry someone you don't want or don't love. Look back on this thread and I have said it at least 4-5 times that forcing isn't the issue; but making yourself available to meet Armenians versus non-Armenians is.

 

 

Konfetka:

 

That is entirely up to you; yet I have known many Armenian men or women that -a- they created circumstances to date more and meet more Armenian men and or women, and -b- otherwise, they have dated with odars until they decided to finally get married and at that point they have searched to get involved with only with Armenians to date with, to fall in love with and then to marry with.

Edited May 1, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

[Anonymouse]

Anahid,

 

My original point was that getting married to an Armenian - forcing an Armenian marriage that should not be - simply in order to "preserve the race" is harmful. All the other uncertanties and things associated with getting married are not what I was talking about.

 

Who is forcing anyone to get married? Last I checked, it is purely a matter of choice.

 

However, it is not with coercion we wish to persuade Armenians to stick to their own, but via education and realization of what is at stake.

 

This whole nonsense about dating and/or marrying non-Armenians is silly at best. It assumes that Armenians are all uniform and that somehow there is no choice in love.

 

Love is one of the most misunderstood concepts by man. It is easy to believe that somehow when humans fall in love it is really a fall. There is no choice, no will, no action on the part of those who fall. But on the contrary, there is a choice and there is action and thought. Before anyone falls they must first make a choice, whether to allow themselves to fall or not. Anyone who makes the excuse of somehow "we couldn't help but fall in love" is exercising nothing more than an excuse and at best justifying their prurient interests and their inability to control every whim.

 

I don't know if you have seen that movie Closer with Natalie Portman, but in it, she plays Alice. She has one line that rings true of every human relation whether as in the movie it was cheating, or in falling in love. She says:

 

Oh, as if you had no choice? There's a moment, there's always a moment, "I can do this, I can give in to this, or I can resist it."

[Takoush]

Anon; you put it very well. You said it all.

 

Great!!!!!!!!!

 

Who says that we can't fall in love with an Armenian person. I know I have, and it was a beautiful choice I made.

 

I can speak as a woman for myself and say that you can certainly fall in love with an Armenian fellow as with a non-Armenian one. Frankly, I prefer the Armenian felllow.

Edited May 2, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

[aSoldier]

Who is forcing anyone to get married? Last I checked, it is purely a matter of choice.

 

However, it is not with coercion we wish to persuade Armenians to stick to their own, but via education and realization of what is at stake.

 

This whole nonsense about dating and/or marrying non-Armenians is silly at best. It assumes that Armenians are all uniform and that somehow there is no choice in love.

 

Love is one of the most misunderstood concepts by man. It is easy to believe that somehow when humans fall in love it is really a fall. There is no choice, no will, no action on the part of those who fall. But on the contrary, there is a choice and there is action and thought. Before anyone falls they must first make a choice, whether to allow themselves to fall or not. Anyone who makes the excuse of somehow "we couldn't help but fall in love" is exercising nothing more than an excuse and at best justifying their prurient interests and their inability to control every whim.

 

I don't know if you have seen that movie Closer with Natalie Portman, but in it, she plays Alice. She has one line that rings true of every human relation whether as in the movie it was cheating, or in falling in love. She says:

 

Oh, as if you had no choice? There's a moment, there's always a moment, "I can do this, I can give in to this, or I can resist it."

 

Well said indeed.

[KGB]

Who is forcing anyone to get married? Last I checked, it is purely a matter of choice.

The people getting married are forcing themselves to avoid non-Armenians because of the incessant persuasions of family members, which actually can be classified as coercion in certain cases.

[KGB]

However, it is not with coercion we wish to persuade Armenians to stick to their own, but via education and realization of what is at stake.

Education? And what if the education does not persuade the targeted individual into realizing what is at stake? What if that person does not give in? What will the educators do then? How will the educators treat that person then?

[Anonymouse]

The people getting married are forcing themselves to avoid non-Armenians because of the incessant persuasions of family members, which actually can be classified as coercion in certain cases.

 

Forcing themselves? No one is forcing themselves, and how do you know? Are you psychic? Stop making spurious assumptions. Saying it's coercion doesn't make it so, regardless of what you think. Unless you can somehow demonstrate psychic abilities to know exactly what the feelings of the people in question are, then there is no point. Why is it that when someone marries a non-Armenian it's somehow the 'will of the individual' and it's 'their choice' but when someone marries an Armenian, all of a sudden it's 'forced' and 'coerced'. What sort of inanity is this? We could very well state that when someone marries an otar it is forced for whatever odd reason either they are running away from certain issues, have father issues, or the "pressure of living in a multicultural society is just too much to the point where it psychically pressures and entramps them thus slowly and gradually forcing them against their will to marry a non-Armenian". The problem with such prophecizing is that it explains everything yet explains nothing.

 

Education? And what if the education does not persuade the targeted individual into realizing what is at stake? What if that person does not give in? What will the educators do then? How will the educators treat that person then?

 

Then we may as well just roll over and plant our graves already for if every Armenian did what you did and followed their prurient interests we may as well not have Armenians.

 

I don't know about you or anyone else, but here is how I treat them. I consider such people expendable and accept the losses.

 

This little folk over millenia have now become an endangered species. You forget that the Turk nearly decimated this little folk and that no doubt lives to see the day when Armenians are nothing more than a footnote in a book or reference and their lands already balding nothing more than broken stone buildings and home to shitting Kurds with their caravans and sheep.

 

Armenians have forgotten the most dearest and most essential part of that which they supposedly represent, that is blood and culture. In fact, most of the Western world has forgotten this basic law of existence, biology trumps ideology. You cannot have it any other way. You can dabble in athiestic secularism and multiculturalism and borderless bliss all you want, but in the end every action (thought or otherwise) has a reaction. Those that forget this law don't live to see it. Just ask the Hittites or the Romans or the Assyrians or the Phyrgians or how about them Babylonians or what about them Sumerians, oh and we can't forget them Phoenicians, and I am sure we can make a nice compact list of peoples who are nownothing more than referemces on Wikipedia.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Anonymouse

[KGB]

Forcing themselves? No one is forcing themselves, and how do you know? Are you psychic?

Stop making spurious assumptions.

Actually, some people are forcing themselves. How do you know they aren’t? Are you psychic?

 

Saying it's coercion doesn't make it so, regardless of what you think.

Saying it’s not coercion and is education doesn’t make it so, regardless of what you think.

 

Why is it that when someone marries a non-Armenian it's somehow the 'will of the individual' and it's 'their choice' but when someone marries an Armenian, all of a sudden it's 'forced' and 'coerced'. What sort of inanity is this?

Did I say this? Re-read my posts and prove to me that I said non-Armenian/Armenian marriage is the ‘will of the individual’ and an Armenian/Armenian marriage is ‘forced’ and ‘coerced.’ Rather, IF this is the case, then the Armenian/Armenian union should be avoided. All I'm saying is that happiness should not be sacrificed in the name of "keeping the blood pure." That's all. Seeking out an Armenian union is great, I encourage it and think that's the way it should be as long as the union of the two people in question is "meant to be" (forgive me for using that cliche, but I could not think of a better substitute).

 

This little folk over millenia have now become an endangered species. You forget that the Turk nearly decimated this little folk and that no doubt lives to see the day when Armenians are nothing more than a footnote in a book or reference and their lands already balding nothing more than broken stone buildings and home to shitting Kurds with their caravans and sheep.

No, I have not forgotten this and never will, mostly because I’ve been encouraged to think like this about Armenians since I was a young child.

 

Armenians have forgotten the most dearest and most essential part of that which they supposedly represent, that is blood and culture. In fact, most of the Western world has forgotten this basic law of existence, biology trumps ideology. You cannot have it any other way. You can dabble in athiestic secularism and multiculturalism and borderless bliss all you want, but in the end every action (thought or otherwise) has a reaction. Those that forget this law don't live to see it. Just ask the Hittites or the Romans or the Assyrians or the Phyrgians or how about them Babylonians or what about them Sumerians, oh and we can't forget them Phoenicians, and I am sure we can make a nice compact list of peoples who are nownothing more than referemces on Wikipedia.

I don’t quite understand, especially about biology trumping ideology – what do you mean by this?

 

Also, if a system of thought is part of or supports “atheistic secularism,” is it to be rejected? What alternative do you suggest?

[Takoush]

Actually, some people are forcing themselves. How do you know they aren’t? Are you psychic?

Saying it’s not coercion and is education doesn’t make it so, regardless of what you think.

KGB:

 

On this note; let me tell you a nice little story. My cousin who was just engaged this past Sunday, her parents actually of course very much desired their children to intermarry with Armenians one day; but they never pushed them to be. Then when the time came, my cousins went to college, guess where my cousin met her now fiance? In college. They are sooooo in love with each other you have no idea. They actually cannot be separated from each other. They are very much in love. No coercion, no pushing, no nothing.

 

Kgb; Anonymous is quite right. We are not many in this world. In order to preserve ouselves it is beneficial for us to find love amongst ourselves, intermarry and preserve our nationality. Otherwise this so called diaspora it will be another annihilation for us. IT IS CALLED THE SO CALLED "WHITE MASSACRES". In Armenian we call it, "DJERMAG CHART".

Edited May 3, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi