Djrak Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 All religions make the same claim. are u sure? Does any other religion claim that Jesus is God? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Why anyone would need a soul? A soul is not necessary for immortality when the multiverse gives you Eternity. God gives you immortality while Fadix grant you Eternity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 How do you know that? Other religions make the same claim about their books. Humans existed for centuries how come these books came within the last two centuries, may be some people got smarter and wanted to control, use religion for their benefit and others follow their footsteps once they found out that religion really works. Let me make one thing clear: Christianity is not a religion just as Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc... If you're gonna call all of those "religions" then you can't give Christianity the same name. Christianity is not about following a set of rules, rituals, lifestyles, etc... Christianity is aout following Christ. People may use Christianity as a way to control people and sadly that's what is like nowadays in most communities. But those are only Christians by name. And that doesnt mean a thing to our Lord on the contrary it would have been better if they never found out about Christianity than to abuse it like that. now about the Bible: the Bible is not a book, just as all other books. if you are going to call all the books in the world: "books" then you cant call the Bible a "book". the Bible is the LIVING word of God. The letters and paragraphs and pages are only describing something that's alive everywhere. It is not the words, letters, paragraaphs, pages themselves that make God's word. They are just pointing to the LIVING God's Word which became a man in the person of Jesus the Christ. How do I know it? -> it's a revelation. Only thru faith can anyone see God. What is faith? It is a function in human beings just like thinking, eating, reading etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 No Djrak; I wasn't talking about myself or any one friend. I just wanted to be more clarified about such matters as I view the world being upside down about marriages and unions in general. A great many divorces, especially in the past 50 years or a great many wrong marriages still clinging on to each other for this and that wrong reasons. So many divorces and remarriages and not just in the U.S. but in Europe and even other parts of the world. I simply wanted to know what Jesus or God views wrong marriages after it is done. How right or wrong is it for both parties involved about such matters. Thank you and may God bless you also. It is sad what happens to marriages nowadays. I think it's mostly because people get married just for the sake of it or because society expects them to or some other stupid reason. Mariage is a union. And for 2 people to become 1 is a very serious thing. You cant be like "we love each other and that's all that matters" I was one of those ppl and i was going to marry a girl and end up in a lot of trouble if it wasnt for Jesus. If I'm gonna get married It's gonna have Him involved in it just as anything else. Just like anything else, marriage without Him is fake and superficial ( that doesnt mean He cant revive a dead marriage). If I'm gonna get married It's gonna be to glorify Him and it has to be such that it is gonna be better for the 2 of us to marry each other than to live alone to glorify Him. If I can serve Him better without marrying than I shouldnt marry. Because marriage is not a goal in life. But His Kingdom is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Both spirituality and religion often lack a fundamental basis and rely mainly on assumptions, hearsay, superstition, and imagination. That is what you think spirituality & religion rely on. Don't mix fact with opinion Sip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 are u sure? Does any other religion claim that Jesus is God? They all say that it was written either by Gods inspiration or by a dream. Why would other religions say that Jesus is God they are the competators. What if one day I decide to write a good moral and ethical book with rules, regulations and say that I was inspired by God. Would you believe me? If not why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Let me make one thing clear: Christianity is not a religion just as Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc... If you're gonna call all of those "religions" then you can't give Christianity the same name. Christianity is not about following a set of rules, rituals, lifestyles, etc... Christianity is aout following Christ. People may use Christianity as a way to control people and sadly that's what is like nowadays in most communities. But those are only Christians by name. And that doesnt mean a thing to our Lord on the contrary it would have been better if they never found out about Christianity than to abuse it like that. now about the Bible: the Bible is not a book, just as all other books. if you are going to call all the books in the world: "books" then you cant call the Bible a "book". the Bible is the LIVING word of God. The letters and paragraphs and pages are only describing something that's alive everywhere. It is not the words, letters, paragraaphs, pages themselves that make God's word. They are just pointing to the LIVING God's Word which became a man in the person of Jesus the Christ. How do I know it? -> it's a revelation. Only thru faith can anyone see God. What is faith? It is a function in human beings just like thinking, eating, reading etc... People who believe in other religions think that theirs is special and better. Who's gonna be the judge of that? If Bible is the living word of God how come we never received a new paragraph in two thousand years. God, Faith and Religion are different things. I have strong Faith in God but I have no time for man made religions who claim theirs better than others. Also how many million people died in the name of religion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Christianity is not about following a set of rules, rituals, lifestyles, etc... Christianity is aout following Christ. Those two sentences contradict. the Bible is the LIVING word of God. What does that even mean? They are either the words of God or not. If they are the words of God, they must be infallible. We all know the Bible has many faults so obviously it can't be the words of a perfect God. How do I know it? -> it's a revelation. Only thru faith can anyone see God. What is faith? It is a function in human beings just like thinking, eating, reading etc... If faith is a function of human beings, then it too can NOT be perfect. So at least have the decency to acknowledge you might just be full of shit in your "revelation" just like those who believed the earth was flat, that everything revolves around the earth, that light goes in a straight line, etc. And to add to your own sentence, Faith is a function in human beings just like thinking, eating, reading, dreaming, imagining, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 They all say that it was written either by Gods inspiration or by a dream. Why would other religions say that Jesus is God they are the competators. What if one day I decide to write a good moral and ethical book with rules, regulations and say that I was inspired by God. Would you believe me? If not why? hahaha You said it yourself! They will never claim that Jesus is God because they are blinded (or competitors= on the other side, not with the truth) Faith and ethics are 2 different things. What you see on the outside as a manifestation of one's faith are morals and ethics and whatever but that's only the consequences not the source itself. Man's desire to be moral or ethical is from God. The way to live that can only be accomplished thru faith. Not a set of rules. That's how it is all designed. You want to paint a picasso painting? You're gonna have to study him and copy his techniques and at the end of the day end up with a fake painting no matter how hard you try. But if you look within to discover the real you (which is hidden in Christ) then you will make miracle paintings, unique and authentic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 People who believe in other religions think that theirs is special and better. Who's gonna be the judge of that? If Bible is the living word of God how come we never received a new paragraph in two thousand years. God, Faith and Religion are different things. I have strong Faith in God but I have no time for man made religions who claim theirs better than others. Also how many million people died in the name of religion? Yervant, God is the judge of everything and He never changes. He's always the same. You are still looking at things from a worldly perspective. You must understand that He is above time, unlike us,2 thousand years and 1 day are the same for Him. It's good that you have faith in God. You should pursue it and seek to know Him more and He will show you the rest. You don't need to trust men and what they teach but if He leads you to a Man so Hecan teach you don't be surprised! And yes many died for religion, what's your point exactly? It makes no difference whether you die for religion or your cat. But to die for Christ (martyrdom) is a different thing all together. I know, I know, now you will say "you die for Christ and a muslim for his Allah, what's the difference?" right? The difference is that he is blinded and led by his mind and emotions, the truth is not with him, he thinks God wants you to die for him so that you can be worthy of His acceptance. While I am a new being in Christ, mind, body and spirit, and I find teh source of life in Him if someone wants to kill my body i know that if I stay with him my soul will rise from the dead with my body on Judgement day. I will never die. i rather die physically and tehn live forever, rather than deny Him and loose real Life (=Jesus), live physically for a few decades and die eternally. I do it cause I love Him with everything in me, the muslim does it to justify himself which he is not the judge of. I hope that makes it clearer for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Those two sentences contradict. no they don't. If you think Jesus is a set of rules then you're deceived. He is alive. And he is with us. What does that even mean? They are either the words of God or not. If they are the words of God, they must be infallible. We all know the Bible has many faults so obviously it can't be the words of a perfect God. The Bible doesnt have any faults. Maybe you can't accept the truth it represents because you read with your mind and emotions and ofcourse your SELF is threatenned. If faith is a function of human beings, then it too can NOT be perfect. No it's not because the world is fallen and that is why our faith needs training just like our body and mind. So at least have the decency to acknowledge you might just be full of shit in your "revelation" just like those who believed the earth was flat, that everything revolves around the earth, that light goes in a straight line, etc. And to add to your own sentence, Faith is a function in human beings just like thinking, eating, reading, dreaming, imagining, etc thank you for the insult but you lose again partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 You know THE TRUTH ... you say Jesus is Alive ... you say we are basically all idiots for realizing the faults in the Bible ... and I lose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 You know THE TRUTH ... you say Jesus is Alive ... you say we are basically all idiots for realizing the faults in the Bible ... and I lose? Sip; you're laughing now; but the Bible is written by God and one day maybe when you're in trouble; mind you I hope you'll never be in trouble or in pain, but life is life and you may, then you may seek in Him (God) then you'll know and understand or believe in Him. Hopefully you'll seek in Him sooner and understand the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 (edited) Sip; it is true that Jesus is alive; because if you recall from the Bible that he was resurrected from the dead. Also He is the son of God, therefore He is God, you see? And God is alive. That is why we say that Jesus is alive and He is among us. Edited February 18, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 You know THE TRUTH the truth lives in me ... you say Jesus is Alive ... Hallelujah! you say we are basically all idiots for realizing the faults in the Bible you are deceived by the devil, not because you are idiots but because you don't believe and because creation is fallen from its ideal . Sip, it is not a mental thing. ... and I lose? you don't have the right to do this to yourself. You don't have the right to degrade yourself and pollute yourself. You lose because the more you stone me, the more you give me proof that I am bearing fruit. And I thank you for that. It is not really YOU that I'm talking with but he who is controlling you. He is the looser. It's been 2000 years that he's lost. And I win because I rejoice in the victory of my Lord. Have Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 I am not degrading myself. But I certainly do NOT appreciate you giving the credit for everything I have accomplished to your God. Your God has been absolutely useless in my life. The only difference he has made is wasting my time of trying to convince his "followers" that they are blinder than a deaf bat. The only thing you "win" is my redicule. You have come to the conclusion that I am a bad person just because I do not believe in your God. If you can't see yourself how stupid of a conclusion that is, nothing anyone ever says will ever make a difference in your life. This is why I say religion is the tool of the devil. The devil does not want you to think for yourself. If God is the ultimate "good", an intelligent human would undoubtedly arrive at HIM by himself with no need for any books or messiahs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 (edited) Your God has been absolutely useless in my life. The only difference he has made is wasting my time of trying to convince his "followers" that they are blinder than a deaf bat. You don't know what you're saying. God loves you and He is there for you all the time. The only thing you "win" is my redicule. You have come to the conclusion that I am a bad person just because I do not believe in your God. If you can't see yourself how stupid of a conclusion that is, nothing anyone ever says will ever make a difference in your life. I never said you are a bad person. that's a conclusion you made. This is why I say religion is the tool of the devil. The devil does not want you to think for yourself. If God is the ultimate "good", an intelligent human would undoubtedly arrive at HIM by himself with no need for any books or messiahs. God wants us to think for ourselves but without excluding Him. Inteligence is a gift from God. If you don't use it properly (the way He intended it to be used) you will get nowhere. You can never see God with mental effort or any kind of effort from your part. He is infinite. Only thru faith. He reveals Himself to us. Not the other way around. Edited February 18, 2006 by Djrak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 This is why I say religion is the tool of the devil. The devil does not want you to think for yourself. If God is the ultimate "good", an intelligent human would undoubtedly arrive at HIM by himself with no need for any books or messiahs. How many times must we repeat ourselves? You, Anoushik, and other non-believers always ask the same questions, which we answer, and stick by your accusations & assumptions, even though we have proven that it is not how you say. When will it stop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 You, Anoushik, and other non-believers always ask the same questions, which we answer, and stick by your accusations & assumptions, even though we have proven that it is not how you say. When will it stop? when and where did these poeple say they are none belivers,?? they belive in something as equaly nobel as you do, my young friend, dont underestimate ones that not nesseserarly belive in same faith as you, the only way you can understand one is have respect for there belives, after all in essance all religions belive in harmony and humanity. is that so wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Non-believers of Christianity, Edward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Non-believers of Christianity, Edward. and whats wrong with being a humanist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 hahaha You said it yourself! They will never claim that Jesus is God because they are blinded (or competitors= on the other side, not with the truth) Faith and ethics are 2 different things. What you see on the outside as a manifestation of one's faith are morals and ethics and whatever but that's only the consequences not the source itself. Man's desire to be moral or ethical is from God. The way to live that can only be accomplished thru faith. Not a set of rules. That's how it is all designed. You want to paint a picasso painting? You're gonna have to study him and copy his techniques and at the end of the day end up with a fake painting no matter how hard you try. But if you look within to discover the real you (which is hidden in Christ) then you will make miracle paintings, unique and authentic. I asked you few simple questions to answer, all you do is sermonise me. You come across as if you have all the answers and the truth lies with you. I envy your wisdom. You say others are blinded and only you have the truth. You also claim to know how it is all designed. Some might say that you are blinded or brainwashed into beleiving that the truth is on your side. Please don't tell me that you know, becuase others have same right to make those claims will it make them right? As much it makes you right. I'm not talking about copiying other books I'll just make my own unique book will you beleive me? If not why? Please be realistic just answer the questions and no preaching I had enough of that. I'm like St. Thomas show me the wound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Yervant, God is the judge of everything and He never changes. He's always the same. You are still looking at things from a worldly perspective. You must understand that He is above time, unlike us,2 thousand years and 1 day are the same for Him. It's good that you have faith in God. You should pursue it and seek to know Him more and He will show you the rest. You don't need to trust men and what they teach but if He leads you to a Man so Hecan teach you don't be surprised! And yes many died for religion, what's your point exactly? It makes no difference whether you die for religion or your cat. But to die for Christ (martyrdom) is a different thing all together. I know, I know, now you will say "you die for Christ and a muslim for his Allah, what's the difference?" right? The difference is that he is blinded and led by his mind and emotions, the truth is not with him, he thinks God wants you to die for him so that you can be worthy of His acceptance. While I am a new being in Christ, mind, body and spirit, and I find teh source of life in Him if someone wants to kill my body i know that if I stay with him my soul will rise from the dead with my body on Judgement day. I will never die. i rather die physically and tehn live forever, rather than deny Him and loose real Life (=Jesus), live physically for a few decades and die eternally. I do it cause I love Him with everything in me, the muslim does it to justify himself which he is not the judge of. I hope that makes it clearer for you. Again you keep on preaching and say that don't trust men then why should I trust you? Oh I forgot you have the truth on your side. People are dying because of religion on all sides as we speak. What makes one side's death a martyr and the other side's a blinded fool. The world might have been a better place for us all if there was no organized religion at all. The problem is that every religion thinks that truth is on their side, while the others are misguided. I will repeat what I said before, keep yourself honest, sincere and truthful God will be in your heart. How do I know this? I don't, it's just my moral compass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Sireli Sasun, I can't. Life itself is about survival. Survival at any cost. This means that one has to (whether one wants to or not) stomp at others' paths and take their space and resources if one wants to secure his/her future. It's an egotistic world. It's true, there are some very few who by nature are sensitive about others' concerns and careful that they won't hurt others in their pursuit of securing their own future. But we all know what happens to those kinds of individuals. Let's take a very simple example. Freeways. Los Angeles freeways. The entrance of 5 North on 110 to be exact. Every single day there are cars who try to squeeze in last minute by cutting in front of someone instead of getting in line early. At least one car will cut in front of me, one will get in behind me, I'll see a couple cars getting in front of the car right ahead of me, etc. Maybe they have a good excuse, like they have an important appointment to get to. Maybe they think that it's only them, only one car cutting the line, how can it hurt? But in the course of this one car getting in last minute and another following in last minute one sees that the line keeps slowing down and the few honest people who decided to wait in line end up waiting unnecessarily long before finally getting to 5. And sometimes it's so easy to prevent those last minute cars from getting in line. It's so easy to block them off by closely following the car ahead... but one has to be a sadist to do that. To make the person pay for cutting in front by making them end up on a completely different destination. So, the line keeps slowing down. Some waiting twice as long to get to five, and others just gliding through that portion of the freeway in seconds. It's a very simple example, but you can apply this to any situation in life. It's a cruel world. I don't see where God fits in (let's say if He existed in the first place). Anoushik jan, I know you can't. There are two types of criticism - constructive and destructive. Constructive criticism is when your criticism brings improvements and a better understanding of whatever the criticism is about. Destructive criticism is when not only there is no better understanding but also things get worse. When people criticise God that is destructive criticism. Not only it is the most foolish thing to do to criticise the creator of eveything but also it destroys ones potential to know God and so moves one further away from truth. As far as your observations are concerned, yes, we do a lot of evil things. Next time you see evil I suggest you think about yourself weather or not you have done anything wrong. Let's criticise ourselves with the same zeal as we do others. You are asking, where does God fit in all this? God made it possible for evil to exist because otherwise a world of variaty could not have existed. Our world is a mix of good and evil, and it will always be so. It was not meant to be otherwise. But to know God one has to focus on the good things, not evil things. God can be found everywhere but it is much more difficult to see God in evil things because even though every darkness will have some lilght parts it is much easier to look at light if one is looking for light. Anoushik jan, my sincere advice would be to focus on the positive aspects of life, such as music and all things beautiful, then perhaps you will see where God fits in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 You can liberate yourself by being honest,sincere and most importantly keep your jealousy in control. All holy books preach these qualities that you are mentioning and many other qualities that one needs to have. In other words, there ar moral codes or cammandments, known by different names to different religions. All these things make up the essense of all religions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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