MosJan Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 AGREEMENT OVER Artsax ISSUE MAY BE REACHED AT KOCHARIAN-ALIYEV MEETING 04.08.2005 02:46 /PanARMENIAN.Net/ «An agreement over the Nagorno Artsax conflict may be reached at the recurrent meeting of the Azeri and Armenian Presidents to be held August 26. The talks held within the past year provide ground for an opinion of this kind,» Project Director of International Crisis Group for Caucasus Sabine Freizer stated in the air of RFE/RL. In her words, the population is not sufficiently informed on the course of the talks, which results in discontent and press speculations. «It is utterly important for the Governments of Azerbaijan and Armenia to provide information to their country population irrespective of whether an agreement is reached or not. Otherwise the attitude of the population of both countries to any arranged issues will be negative,” she said. The International Crisis Group monthly report says during OSCE Minsk Group Co-Chairs’ visit to the region there were optimistic conversations about peace. The document says that the matter of the referendum in Artsax was discussed in the press, while the Azeri MFA denies it. The report also notes that in spite of the public opinion in Azerbaijan still being very critical, relative calmness is available in Armenia. It notes that on the eve of the parliamentary election pressure over Azerbaijan increases – the US, EU and OSCE make statements on the need to hold free and fair election. <!> Reproduction in full or in part is prohibited without reference to "PanARMENIAN.Net" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zartonk Posted August 5, 2005 Report Share Posted August 5, 2005 In her words, the population is not sufficiently informed on the course of the talks, which results in discontent and press speculations. Well, just wonderfull.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skerbey Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 /PanARMENIAN.Net/ «An agreement over the Nagorno Artsax conflict may be reached at the recurrent meeting of the Azeri and Armenian Presidents to be held August 26.style_images/master/snapback.png It's good to hear this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 On one side the Azeri president says that he will build up his forces and take Karabagh by force. Now, a peaceful agreement might by reached? I don't understand this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 On one side the Azeri president says that he will build up his forces and take Karabagh by force. Now, a peaceful agreement might by reached? I don't understand this. style_images/master/snapback.png It's called politic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 It's called politic. style_images/master/snapback.png In this case it's more like conventional idiotism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellektor Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 The Artsakh "conflict" has been solved over a decade ago. The "Azeris" started a war after massacring Armenians and they f**king lost the war. End of story. All these years they have been annoying us and they are preventing the normal progress of the Armenian people as if the last thousand years of Turkish calamity wasn't enough. They want land in place for nothing. What are they proposing in return for liberated land they are claiming? Opening of borders and the lifting of the embargo? Give me a break! How on earth can the loser of a war demand land? No matter what happens, the Armenians have to give land to the Turks. It happened in the past and the Artsakh problem is a result of that. When are Armenians going to claim Nakhijevan, Kars and Ardahan? These have been unjustly usurped from us. What about Shahoomian, Getashen and Martooni? Why can't the goddamn Turk-loving Zionist/Freemason "superpowers" allow us to live in peace and give us a chance to go on with our lives? Not a square millimeter of liberated land should be "returned" to the bogus country founded on Armenian territory. They want Aghdam? First they give us back Nakhijevan. They want Fizuli? What about canceling the illegal Kars treaty? I'm sooooo pissed off with the passive attitude of the Armenians and our government. When are we going to be a bit more demanding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skhara Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 (edited) I don't know man, what can we do? I can demand a lot of things you know. I guess playing politics, no matter how sick it makes you, is the only reality of the world. And if we do not want to play politics, then we need to be in a powerful position. The ideal situation is where no one has power over you. Edited August 15, 2005 by skhara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 (edited) Well let's just wait and see what the result of these endless ''negociations'' will be. btw I've heard that there will be a demonstration in front of the Azeri Embassy in Washington (September 1) against some of the more provocative comments of Ill Ham, and to remind the US of the massacres commited by Azerbaijan. I do not know any more details. Edited August 15, 2005 by Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellektor Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 We just have to be firm. No land will be returned in exchange for nothing. What can they do? Start a new war? Can they win? Let me tell you, the first thing they have to do in case they start a war is to shove the EMPTY pipeline up theirs! I don't think the United Kingdom of the Greatest Turkish Phallus Worshipping Zionist/Freemason Poufs will be very happy. The Armenian government has just to hold on to the liberated land and doesn't have to be intimidated by the threats and pressure imposed by the immoral Turk-loving Western powers. They can't do anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insi...av081705b.shtml EURASIA INSIGHT NAGORNO-Artsax: PEACE ON THE HORIZON? Haroutiun Khachatrian 8/17/05 Armenian leaders are hopeful, but cautious as they approach what could prove to be pivotal talks concerning the future of the Nagorno-Artsax territory. Armenian President Robert Kocharian will try to break the existing deadlock in the Artsax talks when he meets Azerbaijani leader Ilham Aliyev August 26, amid a summit of Commonwealth of Independent States member states. As a prelude to those discussions, Armenian Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian and Azerbaijani Foreign Minister Elmar Mammadyarov are expected to hold talks in Moscow on August 23. Hopes for a Artsax deal have risen markedly since the July 10-16 visit to Armenia, Azerbaijan and Artsax by the co-chairmen of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe’s Minsk Group, the tri-partite body charged with mediating peace talks. "We have never been closer to an agreement," Azerbaijani Deputy Foreign Minister Araz Azimov was quoted as saying by various Armenian media outlets after Minsk Group co-chairmen Steven Mann (USA), Bernard Fassier (France) and Yuri Merzlyakov (Russia) left Baku on July 13. The substance of recent discussions remains a tightly guarded secret. While cautiously optimistic, Armenian officials and experts believe the talks can still stumble over several significant obstacles. Most in Yerevan also are putting the onus on Azerbaijan for the fulfillment of settlement expectations. In an August 11 editorial, the Golos Armenii newspaper stated that "Azerbaijan has to demonstrate with real deeds its commitment to a compromise-based, civilized ... solution of the Artsax problem." Armenian and Artsax leaders refuse to entertain the possibility of the breakaway territory remaining under Azerbaijan’s jurisdiction. In June, Armenian President Robert Kocharian, who served as president of the breakaway territory from 1994-1997, reaffirmed this point while speaking with a group of Armenian students in Moscow. "Artsax’s independence isn’t liable to bargaining," he said in a speech aired by the Armenian public television on June 23. In recent weeks, some high-profile politicians have hinted that mediators may be probing for a compromise that could potentially leave Artsax outside of Azerbaijan. "Progress has been made in the . . . conflict settlement process. It is most evident in Azerbaijan’s position, which is relatively constructive. The status of Nagorno-Artsax is the key issue, and Azerbaijan is now discussing it with the co-chairs," Arkady Ghukasian, president of the self-declared Nagorno-Artsax Republic, said in July after Minsk Group officials visited Stepanakert. A report distributed by Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFERL) suggested that one compromise under consideration would have Armenia withdraw from at least five of the seven occupied regions (excluding the Lachin, and, most likely, Kelbajar regions connecting Artsax with Armenia). Armenia would also permit the return of Azerbaijani residents to the occupied territories and to Nagorno-Artsax proper. According to a high-ranking sources cited in the RFERL report, Azerbaijan would, in turn, agree to recognize Artsax’s status based on the results of a referendum to be held among the inhabitants of the enclave within 10 to 15 years. To build bilateral confidence, the sides would open a motorway connecting Azerbaijan, Artsax, Armenia and the Nakhichivan exclave of Azerbaijan. In addition, according to the same source, Turkey would open its border with Armenia as soon as a Artsax settlement is signed. Serious distractions could come in the form of Azerbaijan’s November parliamentary elections and Armenia’s constitutional referendum, expected to take place at roughly the same time. In addition, the notion of a Artsax referendum is already generating considerable opposition in Azerbaijan. Some opposition politicians in Armenia and Artsax are also critical of the referendum proposal. They point out that the territory already held a plebiscite in 1991 in which residents voted overwhelmingly for independence. In a July 13 interview with the daily newspaper Aravot, Aram G. Sargsian, leader of the Democratic Party of Armenia, argued that the outcome of a future referendum in the territory could turn out to be unfavorable for Armenians, as Azerbaijanis, who have a much higher birth rate, might become a majority in the territory within 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunt Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 In a July 13 interview with the daily newspaper Aravot, Aram G. Sargsian, leader of the Democratic Party of Armenia, argued that the outcome of a future referendum in the territory could turn out to be unfavorable for Armenians, as Azerbaijanis, who have a much higher birth rate, might become a majority in the territory within 10 years. Does this guy think 10,11,12,13 year old Azeris are going to go to the voting stations to vote?!?!?!? What an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 This deal if goes through is the sweetest ever on the table.Azeris have everything to lose and Armenians gain Artsagh plus Lechin.It is too good to be true but I will cross my fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 This deal if goes through is the sweetest ever on the table.Azeris have everything to lose and Armenians gain Artsagh plus Lechin.It is too good to be true but I will cross my fingers. style_images/master/snapback.png I think it is a poisoned apple. The Azeris will probably estimate refugees of the time to be about a million, and with the demographical increase, to over 1.2 million. They will populate Artsakh in a period of 10 to 15 years by claiming that the refugees and their later born children are returning there. While many Armenians probably left Artsakh during the war and after, the Azeris refugees will return there, with later born children and others who will be redirected there. The consequences might well be an important change of demography. The places population is even not 200,000, would not be hard to sent 100,000 Azeris there for the first few years, and you will get there, about 40% or even over of the population. In the next few years, those in these underdevelopped regions serounding it, which will be taken over by Azerbaijan, will slowly leave for "their" Artsax, which is more reacher. It would not be hard after 10 to 15 years in those circumpstances for the Azeris to take over demographically, while Armenians will be leaving the place(it's in our nature to leave the homeland). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 I think it is a poisoned apple. The Azeris will probably estimate refugees of the time to be about a million, and with the demographical increase, to over 1.2 million. They will populate Artsakh in a period of 10 to 15 years by claiming that the refugees and their later born children are returning there. While many Armenians probably left Artsakh during the war and after, the Azeris refugees will return there, with later born children and others who will be redirected there. The consequences might well be an important change of demography. The places population is even not 200,000, would not be hard to sent 100,000 Azeris there for the first few years, and you will get there, about 40% or even over of the population. In the next few years, those in these underdevelopped regions serounding it, which will be taken over by Azerbaijan, will slowly leave for "their" Artsax, which is more reacher. It would not be hard after 10 to 15 years in those circumpstances for the Azeris to take over demographically, while Armenians will be leaving the place(it's in our nature to leave the homeland). style_images/master/snapback.png You may be right but I am sure Armenians will insist in some kind of population data similar to prewar yrs and in this regard Armenians were 80% of the population. I believe our new generation politicians are lot more versed "smarter"then we give them credit.I believe in Artsagh future to be bright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunt Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 You may be right but I am sure Armenians will insist in some kind of population data similar to prewar yrs and in this regard Armenians were 80% of the population. I believe our new generation politicians are lot more versed "smarter"then we give them credit.I believe in Artsagh future to be bright. style_images/master/snapback.png Exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 (edited) Does this guy think 10,11,12,13 year old Azeris are going to go to the voting stations to vote?!?!?!? Not really. Many azeri children were born already between 1994 and 2005. They might be the demographic problem Sargsian was worried about. And I don't think that referendum will work, because apparently in the azeri constitution, it is said that a referendum should be done nationwide. What makes you think Azeris of Karabagh will automatically choose to return and live among us ''infidels''? One more thing - will the Armenians of those 5 territories be allowed to stay, or will it become like what's happening now in Gaza? http://www.azg.am/?lang=EN&num=2005081801 Edited August 18, 2005 by Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunt Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 What makes you think Azeris of Karabagh will automatically choose to return and live among us ''infidels''? That is another good point. And if they do return, will give them an incentive return to Azerbaijan, . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellektor Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 People, there is no Artsakh conflict! The "conflict" was solved over a dacade ago. The biggest mistake the Armenians made (just like in 1918) was to accept the cease-fire when the "Azeris" were begging for it on their knees. They should have gone forward and dropped the "Azeris" into the Caspian or at least they should have liberated Gandzak. Where on earth have you seen a loser of the war receive territory? This is insane! Why doesn't Armenia put demands for Nakhijevan and Shahoomian, Martooni and Getashen in Northern Artsakh? These are LEGAL Armenian territories, along with the liberated field-Artsakh. We cannot afford to lose Karvajar and Lachin and we mustn't return a square nanometer of the liberated land. It's so that the Zionist/Freemason Turklovers are pressuring Armenia, and Armenia shoudn't bend. What shall we get in return? Lifting of the embargo? Opening of goddamned borders? Come on that's NOTHING. They can impose/close it again, but can Armenia take back the returned land they gained for the price of thousands of brave martyrs? We can hold on to the liberated land just they hold on to the occupation of Cyprus. Why no one bothers them to end that invasion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skhara Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 Why doesn't Armenia put demands for Nakhijevan and Shahoomian, Martooni and Getashen in Northern Artsakh? Hmm. That could be something. Actually go on the offensive with land claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellektor Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Hmm. That could be something. Actually go on the offensive with land claims. style_images/master/snapback.png They "founded" their artificially created, bogus "country" on mainly Armenian territory. It's they who "go on the offensive with land claims" even though they f*cking lost the war they started in the first place. Shameless, brazenfaced barbarians that they are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Aliyev is dealing with Robert Kocharian, a native Artsakhtsi. I'm sure he won't be fooled by Azeri tricks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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