MJ

TNT is a basic channel, and each household is equipped with it. It would be nice to be able to sit with your family and watch a movie with your children without an embarrassment. For those with taste got more spicy language, there are the HBOs, CineMax, etc.

There is a lot written about Armenians. I for one have never been interested in reading about it. The notion of Armenian identity has not been constant, either. It is yet to be crystallized. I think the establishment of the Republic will inevitably lead to clarifications in few decades. In my previous note, I forgot to say that the absolute majority of Armenians, under the best scenario, knows about Armenian history from the few historic novels - magnificent ones - written by Raffi, Demirchian, Muratsan, etc. Even such dramatic events in Armenian history as the battle of Avarair are much misinterpreted and falsified. This is consistent with the desire of injecting a set of symbols with the purpose of inspiring self-indulgence. I am far from ascribing such behavior only to Armenians. If we compare it with the Turks, for example, obviously on that stage of comperission Armenians would be innocent wanderers.

There are very few books written on Armenian history by professionals - less than a handful. The primary reason is that Armenian History has been or is of very little interest to a non Armenian scholar or has been only of derivative interest. In the pure sense of the word, Armenia doesn't even have much of a history but has been taken out of the history for most of the history - how about this phrase. Armenia's history is very episodic. Armenians do have history, in contrast, but it is a history of survival, and there is no strong insentive to write about such low categories or values. Furthermore, the few Armenian monks that have written monographs are frequently equivalent to the historians of Communist Party, per se. The integrity of their narration is frequently highly questionable and scandalous. Khorenatsi is a good example. On the other hand, there is a large body of professional articles in professional journals with a lot of useful information. However, this is not convenient for quick reading. One of the primary flaws of the books written by Armenian historians (haven't read R. Hovhannessian, so cannot judge about it - however would expect that it meets the professional standards) is the fact of them being deprived of a proper context or methodology, in the first place. If it is something written in Soviet Armenian historians, according to the requirements of the regime it is put in a methodological framework of "class struggle." If it is writtten by a Diasporan Armenian, it is about "Armenians being the first Christian nation amongst the barbarians." In my view, the proper understanding of Armenian history requires application of adequate analytic methodology. Then, everything else would become self-evident based on the history of the region at-large.

Hush .. The Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal doesn't know it.

I was reading a Magazine today, and came across the following add: "Uncover the shocking secrets of the movie they don’t want you to see. " "A pertinent, powerfully intelligent film. Geoffe Pevere, Toronto Star" "Dense and tightly structured. A.O. Scott, The New York Times" "An emotionally penetrating movie! Desson Howe, Washington Post" "From Oscar -Nominated Director Atom Egoyan comes the most controversial film of the year ARARAT ...is where it all happened."

Associated Press is in the habbit of reporting inaccurate information. See for example their earlier report at the Hye Forum titled "Village Idiot found to have high IQ:" /cgi-bin/forum/ultim...11;t=000106;p=2

quote:Originally posted by wh00t:

November 17, 2002 Highs:68F Lows: 54F Showers: On and off throughout the day Terrorism: Bin Laden promises to take out the Empire State building earlier this morning Humidity: 74% AG Recognition: Armenians are expected to prove this afternoon that the Armenian Genocide is fact Traffic: Congestion throughout the day along the Avenue of Americas against the potential World War III caused by the demonstration by the League of Angry Young Men Extraterrestrial News: The Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal will drink Thoth’s favorite 94 Cote Du-Rhone while Thoth will be busy teaching the Turks some lessons from history Genealogy News: New evidence based on the latest archeological discoveries conducted by the Esteemed Californian microgynecologist Boxara Barber will be provided by Khodja about the true genealogy of Armenians and the British Royalty during his 1374th lecture from the "Armenians are Jews" series Culture: Bobby McFarrin and Datevik Hovhanessian will be joined by the visiting Tata at the Blue Note Club to perform Ara Vai Vai. The proceeds from the Concert will be donated to the "Solution of Armenia’s Problems" fund Horoscope: Scavenger Hunt time, Libra! There is someone out there made for you. Here are the first items on your list: a lampshade painted with a scene of dogs playing poker, a book on astrology that quotes Goethe and T.S. Eliot, a jigsaw puzzle of the Shroud of Turin, and a breath freshener glued into a collage by an artist commemorating her high school days. Once you exercise your intuition muscles scrounging around for that stuff (even if you don't find any of it), you'll be warmed up for the second level of the hunt -- the more important metaphorical phase. The items on that list: one of your valuable assets that has fallen into disuse; a neglected talent that needs more training; and a clue about how to resurrect a pleasure that has gone to seed.

Thoth, The absurdity of your injection is quite annoying. The noise of your violin never stops. It can drive anyone out of patience. There are many members in this forum who speak only when they have something to say. Why wouldn't you follow their example so that to find out that none would be nasty to you in such case? And you haven’t seen me being Academic yet, and, again, I am against turning this place to Vanity Fair or to Garage Sale of recycled crap. Don't you get tired of it? How many years can you go repeating the same unqualified nonsense? Just remember that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Therefore respect your word, and others would do it too. P.S. BTW, Turkish denial is about the Turks. Do you have anything to say about Armenians?

quote:Originally posted by nairi: MJ jan, what is it that Egoyan finds so meaningless? The actual Genocide? Its denial by the Turks? The Armenian struggle for recognition? Making movies about all this? What? Perhaps we can finally have a mature discussion once you answer this question. Mature discussions are held between mature people. I think, in his movie, Egoyan found your type of activism being meaningless and leading only to the the Stan of Emptiness and to cycles of draining intellectual masturbation with no result. Additionally, nothing that he said in his movie was new to this Forum. You may be well advised just to take your time and to read it from the day of its inception.

quote:Originally posted by nairi:I wasn't attacking you, khelok. I was questioning Egoyan. Oh well... Oh, yeah... That stupid Egoyan...

quote:Originally posted by nairi: quote:Originally posted by MJ:[qb]The message of the film is that "All this is so meaningless." If this is really true, then why are the Turks making such a big deal out of it? [qb] Oops.. I didn't realize that... Your observations are, as aways, penetrating to the bone...

No, not violently. But very disturbed. It symbolizes unfinished "business." I just came from the Movie Theater. Saw "Ararat." Most of Armenians expected to see some monumental historic drama "destroying the Turks." I think most of the people where very displeased and disappointed. I also found that the message of the film had not come across to most of Armenians that I spoke to. In fact, the film, in my view, is a strong message to Armenians and is directed at the Armenian audience. The message of the film is that "All this is so meaningless." It is a philosophical journey into the domain of the understanding of the emptiness of the entire Armenian drama beyond the symbolism and beyond the release of the trapped souls into freedom. If you happen to see the movie, just pay special attention to the episode of the Canadian customs officer interrogating Raffi and Raffi's contemplation with shootings of Ani at the background. I think Egoyan, Aznavour, and others have done a pretty interesting job on raising a serious question in the public domain about The Meaning or, perhaps, its absence. P.S. Needless to say that the movie is very much tangeled in symbolism. [ November 16, 2002, 05:01 AM: Message edited by: MJ ]

Sorry for the double post. [ November 16, 2002, 05:00 AM: Message edited by: MJ ]

quote:Originally posted by sen_vahan:Sip, I am actually posting from there smilies/lol.gif I can attest to that.

I am sure you have heard that "Curiosity has killed the Cat."

Who did unleash the Village Idiot, again...?

In 96 or 97 I have happened to witness a KKK march in Ann Arbor, MI. This city is one of the most liberal cities in the US with the highest concentration of intellectuals per capita (at least this is what they think ) KKK members were taken away in ambulance machines, bitten by [white] students.

Ali, I should admit that I am touched by your concern for Armenians...

Ali, As you claim, that is what Muslims say. Nowhere in the New Testament one can read that God has had biological Son. Such an assertion is a vulgarization by the opponents of Christianity and the simple minded "Christians." The most important difference between Christianity and Islam is is the message of loving one’s enemy and the path for one’s salvation, which goes through Jesus Christ. This is what Christianity is about. The rest is fluff.

quote:Originally posted by Arpa:Why do Armenians talk 999 times more about Turks and Turkey, 1000 times more about Jews and Israel? Is this what is known as "ostrichism"? Don't we have anything to talk about? Do we know any armeniana? Is there an armeniana? Is it too embarassing to talk about ourselves? Arpa, I think because "Armenian" is a vague and flawed concept if it is to be judged on the basis of biological categories. Within the next several decades there will be a continuing filtering and things would be naturally put in perspective. Till then there will be a struggle for the crystallization of the notion of Armenian identity.

quote:Originally posted by Domino:Thanks for the reply, your second post answer my question. The problem about what was wqriten by him, is not really about the accuracy of what is in, but rather the lack of evidences, his footnote's are only definitions, there is no material definition, this is why I questioned if he was a fraud, or he was really a Candidate of any historical institute or something. Because if he is, his research to write this paper seem to be very poor, considering that there is no support for his allegations. On the Russian/Armenian scientific stage Candidate means PHD. I think it is a duplication of the German system. I think to correctly assess such materials, one has to always try to infer who is the target audience.

quote:Originally posted by aurguplu: mj, do you realise that this particular interpretation removes the fundamental difference between christianity and islam (i mean if i got you correctly - that jesus is not the biological son of god)? a comparable claim can perhaps be made for turks and (perhaps) the germans. tragically ironic, but not unique: witness the jewish case, for instance: three years after the holocaust, the first jewish state in more than 1,000 years was born.[/QB] I disagree, Ali. It is true that Islam recognizes the "divinity" of Jesus Christ, but it is only on the capacity of a prophet. I also don’t think that in the context of contemporary Christianity Christ is considered to be the "biological son" of God. Even the contemporary Christianity does not claim that God has sex with mortals. However, it is known that the above referenced Adoptionist Armenians have been in very friendly terms with Muslim Arabs and have frequently been protected by them, while they have had significant conflict with the Byzantines. As far as Israel is concerned, obviously its establishment has been the reward to the Jews for the endurance of the Holocaust. I am yet to see someone "rewarding" Armenians for the Genocide. Whatever Armenians have accomplished or failed, the praise or the blame goes to Armenians. Therefore, in the big picture of things, I don’t see much of a parallel. I also fail to understand the comparison with the Turs and the Germans.

Indeed, again. The independent minded portion of Armenians has not considered Christ to be the Son of God in the manner or capacity indoctrinated in the course of the traditional brainwashing campaign. Their formula has been that Christ was God’s chosen Son in His Spirituality and God’s adopted Son in his Humanity. Christ had become the adopted Son of God in the result of His Baptism. A careful reading of the scripture supports such interpretation. Moreover, the Armenians subject to discussion have held an opinion that everyone who gets Baptized becomes the Son of God. And they have addressed each other as "Son of God." This expression has survived throughout centuries in Armenia as a form of greeting – "Asdtzo Vordi." I think there is something fundamentally beautiful and just in this early Christian (first century) perception of the identity of Jesus Christ of which, apparently, Armenians have been the champion. Finally, I think one can successfully argue that the Byzantine form of Christianity has been the device of enslavement of the militant Armenian nation and the denigration of the structures of Armenian statehood. However, I think one should also recognize that in the 19th century, when for all practical purposes the Armenian nation had expired, the myth of the "first Christian nation" has provided with some fuel for the religious community to keep going. Equivalently, one can argue that the resurrection of the Armenian pagan thought has been at the roots of the resurrection of national consciousness in 19th and 20th centuries. [i would also contemplate that the final resurrection of the Armenian nation is due to the Genocide – how tragically ironic.]

quote:Originally posted by razmouhi:Russians have always shown the utmost support and respect concerning the Armenian Genocide. Always like discovering new things ...