MJ

quote:Originally posted by Domino:From the supposed leader of the new Turkish government interogating about whatever or not there was a genocide. I think it worths some temporary fixation. No ? But if we go wandering about every statement that everyone important or unimportant else makes, we would keep ourselves busy by just reacting to these things for another 85 years... Don't you think so?

quote:Originally posted by Azat:That is because the wrong gatekeeper was chosen. Sip forgets everything that he is supposed to do and runs after the beautiful girls when he sees one. Not that I would do it any other way.[/QB] Now, Harut is even wors on that stage. Thoth is a lost case, I think the only alternative is Khodja.

As always, these things are done in a dishonest way - to arrive to the desired results. I turned to be leftist... However, I do agree that the web community is significantly leftist. This is also correct when speaking of the Armenian web community. Moreover, since the late 19th century, Armenians have been predominantly leftist. Armenian centrist thought is an aftermath of post-Soviet era.

But is he so important as to get fixated on him in an Armenian Forum?

>MEDIAMAX > >Armenian Independent News Agency > > > >www.mediamax.am > >____________________________________________ > > > >TURKEY * ARMENIANS * GENOCIDE * ERDOGAN * STATEMENT > > > >?First of all, we should find the answer of whether there was an > >Armenian genocide or not,? Erdogan stated-22.11 > > > >Yerevan, November 22. /Mediamax/. Turkish Justice and Development > >Party-s leader, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said that ?first of all, we should > >find the answer of whether there is an Armenian genocide or not.? > > > >Erdogan said this at the press conference after his meeting with the > >European Commission President, Romano Prodi, Mediamax reports quoting > >the Turkish sources. > > > >When asked whether Turkey would accept the Armenian genocide, Erdogan > >said: ?First of all, we should find the answer of whether there is an > >Armenian genocide or not. This question cannot be accepted without > >finding the answer.?

It resembles a relatively Armenian last name - Ghugasian. Its root originates from the Hebrew version of the name Luke.

Dear Brothers, A critical situation has developed within the rank and file of our Lodge. An enemy has penetrated into our ranks and is about to expose the secret of our sacred ordain to the opponents of our Cause. To identify the enemy, look for his unusual features: balls hanging from under his chin. DO NOT engage with him in arguments. Remember - he always wins. Do apprehend him following the spirit and the letter of our protocol. To cleanse ourselves from such a blunder we may need to sacrifice the ultimate – Thot’s 88 Bordeaux. We would also need to convene for the execution of the disciplinary measures applied towards the brother Sip for failing to perform his gate-keeping functions. Let the spirit of our 12 perished Grandmasters be with you. Grandmaster MJ Lodge 13

quote:Originally posted by Boghos:

Domino, I can assure you that when I am enraged, you would see my rage knocking your door at the locations called "Don't know." P.S. And it wouldn't look like Christmas gift. [ November 23, 2002, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: MJ ]

The ony reasonable thing - Nothing.

Dear TB, I am saddened with your misinterpretation of what I have said.

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: quote:Originally posted by MJ: Anboch gdali pes kez mechtegh mi gtsir. Unfortunately some other people have the same stupid habit.Me?

Azat, Can I use the word "sick?"

Some further thoughts may be warranted. There are few prominent teams in the Hye Forum which generate most of the activity and every statistical new comer jumps in to contemplate on these topics: 1. Jews and Israel 2. Turks and Turkey 3. USA taking over the world 4. Armenian women dating black men One more time, I would call these expression evidence of deep schizophrenia and identity problem. There are only a handful of people contemplating about Armenia, trying to understand the Armenian History beyond that of symbolism and the cliches, identifying themselves with Armenia, being aware of the Armenian History in the first place, being able to relate to the fact that Armenia’s past and present problems, and unless something changes, the future problems, have fundamental reasons and those are not "our barbarian neighbors," but the fluff associated with our mainstream identity and self-consciousness. There are plenty of people coming here to state that "Armenians are the first Christian nation in History," etc. Sort of a poll of "loyalty" – registering a check mark. A couple of words about the History of Armenia: I am sure that 900 years ago (and on) we thought that we were building our history – we were allowed to have our churches and even build more than ever (Why not?), we were allowed to eat "dolma," drink for the history of Armenia, etc. I am sure we felt that we were building our history and serving our Homeland, otherwise it is hard to understand how could we peacefully surrender it. It seems that we still are having hard time to understand that we were building the history of Byzantine or Ottoman Empire, or the economy of Iran, Transylvania, New Nakhichevan, etc. I am sure some would say this is our history. Well, where is it or where are we in that history, then? The moral of my argument is that when there is no receiving end, we don’t build history but we waist it. When our historic endeavors are not anchored at the Homeland or do not serve the Homeland or have no purpose, or if under the best scenario the purpose is the survival, under that best scenario we create historic symbols, symbolic nation and symbolic history. This is about the same as taking drags to feel good. A couple of words about Ali or some others. He may or may not take one or another phrase and use it in a way he pleases. It doesn’t matter. It shouldn’t bother us because it really doesn’t matter. It is only a manifestation of our strength to reevaluate our past, our History, our present, to shake things, to question our most "sacred" symbols so that we can build a new future short of the faults of the past. Those who are afraid to shake the questionable past should not count for the future. I think we can meet this challenge and we should. If we wouldn’t, we would resemble the cowardice of our neighbor with 70 million population. I would also like to add, in conclusion, that I am tempted to use the "i" word one more time. But being a nice guy , I would like to respect the authority of the Moderators, especially when they attempt to step up to the plate. BTW, Thoth, thank you for feeling my pain. But you'd better share it.

quote:Originally posted by Azat: MJ, will you please stop calling people idiots. I'll try. But they have to transform, too.

Nairi, Kokords mi mtir. Ete npatakd srtkharnots arachatsneln e apa du hadjoghutiamb heravorutiunits el es arachatsnum. Just keep your distance and you would be easily ignored. I hoep you finally can get this message.

Nairi, Shot up! Anboch gdali pes kez mechtegh mi gtsir.

quote:Originally posted by aurguplu: why did the same thing not happen in anatolia? why have the turks not become armenians or greeks, and allow themselves to be culturally conquered by the culturally superior armenians and greeks? anyone thought about that? It's simple. Armenians have a huge identity conflict/problem. They have not been able to withstand, and moreover, to absorb others. I am sure it wouldn't take long for some idiots in this forum to come up with other interpretations about the "peacefulness" of our nature.

Sine the day of his arrival, the only context that this corrupt idiot has brought to this forum has been "Israel and Jews." One might’ve noticed that this has been a prominent team of his "enlightening" activism. I have no problem neither with Jews nor with Israel. They are just irrelevant in the context of the past, the present and the future of our Nation. Our paths do not cross. What I find degrading our Nation is the number of these shallow schizophrenics (or as correctly noted above, the intellectual perverts) contaminating the perspective of Armenian Nation. Finally, everything I have said in this forum on the subject of history (as well as many other subjects) is still there, and nothing has been deleted. What has been deleted are the passages demonstrating the lack of merit (as if it is not obvious) of the new miserable failure, the types of which have come and gone in the Hye Forum many times. One more, one less, what difference does it make? He is not the first one, and I can assure you that he would not be the last one. Human failures like him may be well advised to leave this Nations’ perspective alone and, first, to find perspective in their own lives.

quote:Originally posted by MJ: "...I want the film to be about the story parents tell their children, how small moments of misunderstanding huge generational rifts." Meant to be, ""...I want the film to be about the story parents tell their children, how small moments of misunderstanding create huge generational rifts."

Just came across the following Opening presentation: ____________________________________ Never Again "My original impulse was to tell a straightforward historical story," says The Sweet Hereafter’s Egoyan, whose new film Ararat tells the story of the Armenian genocide of 1915, in which well over a million people – two thirds of the Armenia’s population – where murdered by the Turks. "But I’d have to show extreme scenes of unspeakable horror, and as a filmmaker, I can’t do that without a degree of self-consciousness. In the end, I want the film to be about the story parents tell their children, how small moments of misunderstanding huge generational rifts." Ararat, set in the present day, tells the stry through an Armenian family working with the film crew to make a picture about the war, and is the Oscar-nominated director’s most personal film: Much of Egoyan’s family was lost in the massacre, and his son is names after one of the picture’s true-life protagonists, painter Arshile Gorky. "You want people to know what happened, but also what continues to happen," Egoyan says, stressing how many Turks still deny that the war took place. "When I told my son about the genocide, he asked if the Turks said they were sorry. If you tell him the truth, the trauma gets passed on. I want to create a fantasy of how that cycle might be broken – the healing that may occur when someone invests themselves in someone else’s history in an emotional, responsible way." New York Magazine November 18

Just came across the following Opening presentation: ____________________________________ Never Again "My original impulse was to tell a straightforward historical story," says The Sweet Hereafter’s Egoyan, whose new film Ararat tells the story of the Armenian genocide of 1915, in which well over a million people – two thirds of the Armenia’s population – where murdered by the Turks. "But I’d have to show extreme scenes of unspeakable horror, and as a filmmaker, I can’t do that without a degree of self-consciousness. In the end, I want the film to be about the story parents tell their children, how small moments of misunderstanding huge generational rifts." Ararat, set in the present day, tells the stry through an Armenian family working with the film crew to make a picture about the war, and is the Oscar-nominated director’s most personal film: Much of Egoyan’s family was lost in the massacre, and his son is names after one of the picture’s true-life protagonists, painter Arshile Gorky. "You want people to know what happened, but also what continues to happen," Egoyan says, stressing how many Turks still deny that the war took place. "When I told my son about the genocide, he asked if the Turks said they were sorry. If you tell him the truth, the trauma gets passed on. I want to create a fantasy of how that cycle might be broken – the healing that may occur when someone invests themselves in someone else’s history in an emotional, responsible way." New York Magazine November 18

I think that one of the reasons of the absence of the review on the film may be that even the most sophisticated eye may need to see it at least twice to understand the entire message and structure of the film. Additionally, I think non-Armenians cannot really understand it, since one has to have lived the entire drama and grown up with it to understand its rationale. A couple of other observations: There are two gigantic Armenian symbols in the center of the film: Arshil Gorky and Charles Aznavour – one as a central personage and the other as a central actor. The role of Aznavour is not gigantic on its own. Perhaps a lot more modest actor could have successfully plaid it. Besides, one may ask "why would Aznavour agree to play such a derivative role?" I think the answer is simple and is in the understanding of Saroian’s/Aznovour’s message - "It doesn’t matter [what they say, what the do, what they recognize, what they don't recognize, what are the details, what word we would use to characterize it, etc." This message had to be delivered by someone of his statue to be accepted even if one disagrees with it – of coarse assuming it would be understood. On the other hand, I think the other central message, for which Gorky was the axis of this film, was, "This is what matters – we live so that to be something good, to do something good, we can make something out of our lives and nation other than becoming perennial victims and whiners. Life is noble." For me, personally, the value of this film is the discovery of the depth of Egoyan's and Aznavour's understanding of the Armenian Cause – it is something internal. It wouldn’t be of interest to Siskel and Ebert nor they can assess it. This is very Armenian.

quote:Originally posted by gamavor: Khorenatzi is probably not the best source for Armenian History, but many (non-Armenian historians) make references to him, since he(we) witnessed the existence of the others. Indeed. I don’t have the library, anymore, that I have once had. This is the only material I could fiund. Anyone who has access to appropriate libraries is advised to search for Academician Hagop Manandian’s works on the subject. ……………………………………………………………………… 4. The Vanishing controversy Contemporary commentators speak highly both of author and of book. Typical is Hrant K. Armen, a quality Diaspora historian who expresses a common view when remarking that 'we are Armenian only by virtue of Moses Khorenatzi'. Put differently, homeland based commentator A. K. Abrahamian writes that 'the father of Armenian history has played an enormous role in cultivating and reinforcing the Armenian people's sense of identity and national consciousness.' However 'The History of the Armenians' has not escaped controversy and criticism. During the late 19th and early 20th centuries many a commentator questioned its 5th century origin some casting it to the 9th. Others charged its author with wanton and dishonest fabrication, accusing him of a total disregard for historical veracity. Moses of Khoren was found guilty of 'senility', 'fabrication', 'ignorance', plagiarism', 'cheating', 'thoughtlessness' and a host of other sins. It is true that the work is in many aspects uneven. Taking into account the vast scope of 'History', the paucity of sources available to Khorenatzi and the intellectual isolation in which he had to compose his work, it is hardly surprising that the book contains much that is questionable. A great deal of his chronology and a good portion of his evidence has rightly been challenged and set aside. It is also true that the Second and Third Books do not read with the same adventure and excitement as the first. However, bearing in mind the circumstances of its production, the most amazing, - almost miraculous, - aspect of the work is how much of it stands up to the sharpest scrutiny of the most modern and most critical investigation. None of its defects detract from what is in fact an extraordinary accomplishment. Disputes about dating and evidence pale into insignificance when we consider the role this book has performed. In salvaging from eternal darkness vast periods of Armenian history, culture and civilisation it stands forth as a proud and reasoned proclamation of the civilisation and culture of people from small nations. Who will dare contest the value of such a proclamation in the contemporary world order? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Eddie Arnavoudian holds degrees in history and politics from Manchester, England, and is Groong's commentator-in-residence on Armenian literature. His works on literary and political issues have also appeared in Harach in Paris, Nairi in Beirut and Open Letter in Los Angeles. http://groong.usc.edu/tcc/tcc-20010312.html

quote:Originally posted by Sip: quote:Originally posted by MJ:TNT is a basic channel, and each household is equipped with it. It would be nice to be able to sit with your family and watch a movie with your children without an embarrassment. I couldn't agree more. However, in this case, I don't think a "girly white uniform" is any less embarassing than a "fagotty white uniform" ... if not, it's probably even MORE embarassing since they are using "girly" as an insult (where fagotty is already an insult). I hope people don't want to teach their daughters that there is anything wrong with being "girly", cause that certainly what TNT seems to want to imply and it's what ticks me off. In essense, the problem here is that they are affraid of the very vocal homosexual community as opposed to the much larger, yet somehow less vocal female community. I am not claiming that one edition (referenced by you above) is better than the other. I am defending some reasonable censorship.