Arpa

quote:Originally posted by MJ:Why are Armenians xenophobic? Xenophobia is a double edged sword. It cuts in both directions. It excludes us from participating in the blessings the world has to offer and we exclude others in enjoying the blessings we have to offer. No, genocide is not a good subject to preach others about. They have their own pains and aches. We may show them some of the joys of being Armenian. There may few but there are. I showed my friend my tape from Yerevan, it contained among others segments from the Opera Arshak II. She was flabbergasted. First she thought it was by Verdi. She is of Italian heritage and knows opera. She was relieved to know that Tigran Chukhajian was a contemporary of Verdi and a friend of his. "That explains it" she said. BTW, She had known other Armenians who talked about nothing but the genocide. She was surprised to know that not all Armenians are paralytic idiots who know nothing but the genocide.

quote:Originally posted by sen_vahan:"No it is not a fruit or anything. Prunus Armeniaca is. It is Apricot." Nice introduction "Does that mean we are cowards? You be the judge!" That's because we are weak!! WHY??? Nice answer Vahan.You gave the right answer but you did not give the reason. Why are weak? Is it we are weak because we are xenophobic or are we xenophobic because we are weak? Is it the chicken or the egg? Which came first? Until and unless we get off of our mets voriks and do something about it, until we stop resting on our laurels (we don't have many), until we stop believing what our semi educated and uneducated gurus have to say about our culture, history and destiny, until we take our destiny in our own hands and stop relying on the others including but not limited to Yehova and Hisus (they seem to have better things to do in TelAviv and other places) WE WILL STAY WEAK.

Xeno-PHOBIA Is sending one's chldren to a one room facility that is smaller than the bathroom of a local community one, a one room caricature of a school fearing that thwey may be alineted. School, is where they lear the three Rs, reading, (w)riting and (a)rithemetic. Home is where they learn ®ethnic pride. My children went to community school. (That will give you a clue about my age, I mean about my chronological age. As to my emotional age... I am still a little boy, I said BOY. That will also dispel doubts about my gender)They are professionals in their own right, thank you, and they are proud Armenians, thank you again.Is it because at home they learned somethings about us beyond and above GENOCIDE, as my daughter would say; Yechh! Pooo! Not genocide again!! How disgusting!! Yes virginia, there is life after genocide. I did not preach them on genocide, the most shameful and disgussting era of out history. I showed them all that was noble and beautiful in our culture. Yes, they are proud armenians. Thank you again, and again.

Some on this forum are saying; "Christianum ergo sum". Shove it up your ... We were Armenians loooooong before the world had heard of Kristos. Religion, belief in Kristos is exclusivley personal and ir shall remain so. [ December 12, 2002, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: MosJan ]

Wow!! Rubo, I hate you!! You took my thunder away. You poured water on my fire! Armenians are not only xenophobic towards people of other ethicity, they are also xenophobic against those who do not conform to their definition. Parskahay v Yerevanahay. Arevelahay v Arevmtahay. Losavorchakana v Poghokakan?Katolik....You complete the list. And, yes, that "idiot" Grigor was not Armenian, he was Parthian, son (of a bitch, some on this forum assume I don't know our history, I will get back to that)) Anak whose main purpose was to destroy our ethnic identity. Did he succeed? You be the judge. [ December 12, 2002, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: MosJan ]

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: quote:Originally posted by MJ:Isn’t something that has a sole purpose of preservation called parasite? That is a question that reveals the essence of the Disney Armenian.Boghos seems to have grasped the gist of the message.In my previous post I touched upon the the concept of preservation. I said "pickling". Rcently I was in the vicinity of Boston and as is my custom, I bought some Armenia made jams and preserves. I wanted so much to buy some dried figs but much to my chagrin, guess where they are from. Sad to say that they do have the better dried figs. And guess who they learned it from, as we know that where they came from is not known as "fig country". I bought, among others, apricot preserve. I want so much to have an apricot tree in my backyard, I buried some of the preserve, waited and waited for it to sprout, I am still waiting. What am I , some kind of an idiot? Duhh! It is preserved, it is DEAD, D E D, DED. It is preserved, it is not ALIVE. Is that what we want to do to ourselves? Preserve? Would it not be so much better that we stay alive, embellish, rejuvenate, blossom and produce? Have it your way! Preserve! Maintain what your ancestors (who BTW thought a computer was an abacus) have been saying. I will respond to others in time when I feel all avenues have been exhausted.

Phobia Armeniaca. No it is not a fruit or anything. Prunus Armeniaca is. It is Apricot. Phobia Armeniaca means Armenian Fear, and sometimes depending on the context it may also mean Armenian Hatred. Does that mean we are cowards? You be the judge! There have been many debates about intermarriage, assimilation and alienation on this forum. Nothing new. This debate may as well go all the way to time of Haik and Ara. It has not changed an iota. The outcome is always; Armenians better not marry otars, not get assimilated. FEAR!!! Understandable, if one considers what cowards we are. How we talk from a position of weakness rather than a position of strength. BTW,. there are those among us that claim Armenians created the world and that we make it spin around the sun. Is that why Armenians don't have to screw a light bulb in as they can just stand still and let the spinning globe do the job?!! However, we must also make sure that the world spins clockwise otherwise the light bulb will be unscrewed. I will make this as succinct as possible. Many a correspondent here and since the dawn of the universe has expressed fear and concern about intermarriage and every nuance thereof. They are justified . They have a reason to be afraid. After all they seem to know our history. They know that every time we had contact with foreigners we ended up as the losers. When we had intercouse(please look up the definition, it does not necessarily mean serayin haraberuyun, often just haraberutyun). When we had to do with the Persians no Persian became/converted to Armenian. How many Armenians became Persian? When we had to do with the Greeks no Greek became Armenian. How many Armenians became Greks? When we had intercourse with the Byzantines how of them became Armenian? How many Armenians became Byzantine? (You may find a list of Byzantine Emperors of Armenian ancestry). How many Romans converted to Armenian? How many Arabs thought it was better to be an Armenian? The list goes on. Did I leave anybody out? Oh, yes, I did. How many Turks embraced Armenianism? How many visa versa? WHY??? As promised, I will only pose the questions and let our ethnologists and philosophers furnish the answer. Why is an itremarriage considered a net loss rather than a gain? Have we not heard the old adage when a father of the bride says; "I have not lost a daughter, I have gained a son (in law)? When is the last time an otar spouse of an Armenian became an Armenian, rather than the Armenian spouse pushed out and forced to join the ranks of his/her otar spouse? Why? When is the last time we introduced our otar spouse even after 50 years of marriage as an Armenian and not "meet Sheila/Sean", he/she is Irish? When is the last time our institutions wholeheartedly welcomed an otar spouse as "harazat child"? Why!!! What are we afraid of? Why are we constantly speaking from a position of weakness? Fear of losing a daughter/a son rather than gaining a daughter in law or a son? Why is it always a one way street? I may know some of the answers, the most stupid of which is "An Armenian is born as such, when we examine Armenian blood under the microscope we will see the big letter A , all others please stay out". Speaking of phobia , there may be one other people who may desereve the first prize of xenophobia and neither have they grown exponentially even when they may claim to be as ancient as we are if not more. According to some sources there may have been 4 million of us at the beginning of the Christian Era. World populatio has grown 30 fold since then. That means thare should be at least 120 million of us today. Where did the other 112 million go? (Some may cite massacres and genocides as the reason. My question is why were massacred and genocide and not visa versa?) While in the meantime only a handful of Turks came from Central Asia. How many are they now? How many of them were originally Armenian that intermarried (in the broad sense of the word)? Why do we consider an honor and privilege our ability to speak Turkish while they consider a curse to even refer to us? How many Turks speak Armenian? Why did we learn their language and not visa versa? Od course, Mesrop would turn in his grave if, Aramazt forbid, that we teach our language to our neighbors, after all he composed it to be preserved (as a pickle). And what if that peckle goes bad? Waiting for your analyses I will stop here even though I can write volumes about the subject.

quote:Originally posted by 564312:Nice to meet you Ruben I see you are from Tel Aviv you must be accustomed to all the bombs how is life. The Lord Byron letter I’ve found it @ www.iatp.am/byron/hope you find it informative and yes it is written by Byron himself u can buy the book too. www.postroman.info/anglo_saxon/chronicle1.htm. Regardless of any cynicism there is no other country named Armenia Arpa is there? Khorenaci, Tumanyan & Isahakian, Ara Gegecik, Sasunci Davit, Vahagni Cnund. OHH NO they are mere “poetic licenses” no accurate information at all, lets just go into the Arab & Aramaic dictionary to check its origins. Yes like you said we needs new accomplishments Komitas and still can’t. I can go on talking about our “old accomplishments” but it is not necessary for you anyways. Regarding you analyzing about eyes of Vahagn & Sevak – when was Sevak born and when was Vahagn born? There is such thing as time, Before Sevak was born Armenians already have assimilated with many neighboring nations. Thus we have many Sevaks and les Vagni achker hahaha. I think I am going to give you a heart attack --> Abraham the father of Hebrews was Armenian too. One again to understand what a "chuvinist" is go to my profile and read my posts. As to Komitas and others. How many radio stations play his music? How many otars have you introduced to his music? Most of my otar friends know him and his music through me. I make a point to play it for them. I will not address the rest of your well deserved concerns. However I would be amiss if did not contribute to the list of your "famous Armenians". Just so it be complete. If I am reading you correctly, by posting those sites (which I cannot open) you are trying to sat that during Vahagn times we looked and were part of the Sandinavian race but by some coincidence, by Sevak time we ended up looking like any old middle estern or even lie a Bangladeshi. I don't belive in miracles, Do you? Abraham Abrahamian is of course Armenian because "ab raham" means "father of multitude" in the Armenian language. I hate to do this but, for the umpteenth time, please convince me that Abraham, who was 150 years old when he made his wife pregnant(yeah right, and some call that source the 'word of God', what a joke!!) is in fact a historical figure. The Jews will be eternally indebted to you as they have not yet proved it themselves. Then, of course, don't forget that Moses was also Armenian. Add Moshe Dayan to your list. Whatever else you do, don't forget to add the following "Armenian" to your list: Bedros.... Refer to Kinross' The Ottoman Centuries. In my edition of 1979, opposite page578, under a full page portrait of him the caption reads; (Quote) "....Known to the Turks as Bedros(Peter in Armenian) because of his Armenian features, he may have had an Armenian mother" (end of quote). Many an Armenian have come close to have him declare as one of us and have attempted to prove that he indeed had and Armenian mother. Let me explain what Lord Kinross means by "Armenian features". This man was so hated and depised not only by Armenians but alos by his own folk. He was diminutive in size, ugly, hunch backed and had a big nose, therfore his own people gave him the nickname of Bedros as an insult. After all what can be more insulting than to label an otherwise "noble" Turk an "Ermeni", the ultimate insult. To know who this "Bedros the Armenian" is, and lest your list be incomplete got to the following site and scroll down to the list of Sultans. It is number 31 on the list. http://www.worldstatesmen.org/Turkey.html Note. This will be my last response to you as it seems your comprehension of English is limited. Of course I can also write in Armenian if need be. BTW. I am not a "queen" by any stretch of imagination. I am a king. Don't foget that. Also to know why I have chosen "Arpa" as my penname go to my profile and read about Arpa (get/river), may be if you read carefully yo may understand why the river was called Arpa. Let me say this much. Arpi, "of the sun" is usually a feminine name, but Arpa means "from the sun".

Khohashar. Karashar is train, i.e. a line/thread of cars. Seap, you "khohem" get out of the kitchen, it's too hot for you. Your brain is melting down If the Armenian word for thought is "khoh" then what is khohanots??!!

First off, this whole thread is absurd. Armenians don't screw, not even a light bulb, they only screw up. Or, at best they wait for their neighbors to screw (them). The Turks are very good at that. I was going to tell this story last night but I was a little leery. This Italian couple, Luigi and Donna have a fabulous honeymoon on the Island of Capri. The day after they return they have a huge argument and end up in court. The judge asks them about the problem and Donna says she is unhappy because Luigi won't let her get on top. The Judge asks Luigi to comment and he says; Yu horona, my papa tella me two advice-a; 1. Be good and-a succeed in-a biznis-a. 2. Never-a screw up. Seriously, I cannot find an Armenian word for lightbulb except "elektrakan lamba". BTW, "sokharmat" is another to describe a "bulb" as in onion. I am totally in the dark. Not to worry, we are such creative people. Oops! I see a light on top of my head! Eureka! How is elektra-klora-edisona-kantegh? Then again we will be trouble if the bulb is not spherical in shape:) I had to look again. In the economy section there is reference to electrical industry where under a picture of a woman inspecting light bulbs the caption read; "'Hayelektralouys' (apparently this the name of a factory)artadrakan miavorman Erevani ELEKTRALAMBERI gorzarani tsatsravolt lamberi artadramas@". Isn't Armenia supposed to be a major manufacturer and exporter of light bulbs in the region? Why don't we just use "lamba" or "bulba". I won't even suggest "lousabulba" or "lousagndak" as artificially created compound Armenian words are too long as it is already. Once again, I "screwed" this one up but good!

quote:Originally posted by Azat:I like it Sip. You came up wite few good ones. 6) we can give it to Arpa and he will give us the Armenian definition of it prior to changing the bulb. 7) We can give it to Sip or Azat and they would not know what to do with it, but will add it to their long LIST of things to do. Azat, I hate you. How did you know that I was already composing the following. What is a light bulb? We know light means "not heavy" and bulb a vegetable that when you cut it makes cry. So it would take an Armenian etymologist to define what "tetev" means aand Armenia farmer to furnish the sokhi glukh. There! You have a not so heavy bulb of onion. BTW Gndarmat is one word to mean bulb as in a bulb of onion. Oh no! I am so behind I have not even heard about Edison inventing an electric candle.

quote:Originally posted by wh00t:Does anybody know if the Central Park jogger (brutally raped, beaten and left for dead in 1989) is Armenian? I guess we will all know when she releases her book in April, but I wanted to know if anyone had any information. Somebody on another board is claiming that their family went to church with her, and that she's Armenian. Yes she is Armenian.There was quite a bit written about the incident in the Armenian media at the time. Many prayer meatings and vigls were held on her behalf. Her identity was never revealed then, and still not publicized mostly in defernece to her family's wishes.

quote:Originally posted by wh00t:In fact, there is a very popular conductor named Raffi Armenian who resides here in Canada. Check it out. Harutyun Armenian MD is the president of AUA.BTW. In this case, as in many others "Armenian" actually means "the son of Armen". The next one takes the cake. His name is not fake, neither is it a pseudonym. I know that it is his birth name, I have had the honor of meeting him since he was born where I was. Check it out. http://asbarez.com/cartoons/cartoons.htm

http://www.historychannel.com/cgi-bin/fram...speech_260.html THose who have Real Audio or some such, click on the URL and listen, also read the text. Change the date to December Seven, 1988 and contemplate about mans' inhumanity. In our case it would be man's stupidity and hypocrisy. We are the world's most locacious people when it comes to "patriotism", yet it sems like our definistion of the word is based on how many so called patritic songs one knows by heart, while in the meantime we steal and rob, cheat an lie. WE mix sand with sand and call it concrete. We build houses and apartment buildings that is unfit for one's enemy.... and then....we weep and lament, curse nature for its cruelty. It is unheard of, not even in Bangladesh that 25,000 souls would perish by a run of the mill earthquate. Oh! I forget. How silly! We are the world's first.... First to set the record of dead from a medium magnitude earthquake the wake of which still lingers after 14 years. There are still people living in abject poverty and subject to the mercy of nature in metal containers and huts. Tell me about patriotism and Christian Chariry!!! In case we have fogotten, we are the World's First Christian Nation yet we build death traps instead of buildings for our own compatriots. PS. Please don't blame Marxism, Leninism or any other ism for our sins. It is cynicism and lack of patriotism.

quote:Originally posted by Harut:Arpa, to comment on your post in the Ecomony forum... you see the negative aspects of our excellent ability of adoptting to surrounding world. but many see it as a positive thread. unfortunately, you are too few in numbers and too weak to dictate our will and spread our influance on others. (((other - otar ??? how about you write a little on this subject.) I have been intending to write about that subject specailly in the light of what was being said about "intermarriage". It is a huge subject and I need more time as I have not read everything that was said in that topic.I must warn you though, and I must warn the general audience, you may not like what I have to say. In the meantime, you may mull over a couple of not so rhetorical questions; When is the last time anybody became Armenian? How many Armenians have alienated and denied their ethnicity? How many Armenians have become Turks? How many Turks have become Armenian? How many Turks speak Armenian? How many Armenians speak Turkish? You may remember my comments about "assimilation" and "alienation". Read them again. You will find them under my profile.

quote:Originally posted by Rouben Malayan:Hi Arpa. Well, you probably can see that some Armenians in the diasp. ps. btw, WHO IS the autor of above mentioned quote, are you saying Lord Byron never wrote that and if yes, who did? The author I wa referring to is me, I wasa urging you read (again) my previous post.As to the acheivement of the Diaspora in the field of arts and sciences, not finance, that is another sore subject, it is a separate topic. I may get to it sometime.

quote:Originally posted by MosJan:Mer Hye Tramardkants AmenaSireli Eyak@ Anpoxarineli Zoqanch@ - Zoqanchner@ - " Marmin@s push push yerav dzo " Ardyoq Hayeren e Zoqanch - anvanum@ ??? yete voch uremn inchpes/inch e iyn ???? Arpa jan - Naxapes shnorhakal em / ognetseqqqqqqqq shat shtap petq e Sireli Movses, hangist kats, Hayeren e. Although there is very little to go by, the reason I say it is Armenian is tha fact at this point we are the only people to use it. There are some ridiculous interpretations such as it being derived from "sqancheli" etc. But at the end Hrachya relies on the assumption that it is from the Sanskrit "svajana" which simply means "azgakan"/relative. Go ahead, love your zoqanch, but make sure, as Red Skelton used to say, she does not stay more than 6 months at a time when she visits you two times a year. Some of the provincail colloquials are; zonqanch, zequnch, zqchmar(aner), zqchbob (anerhayr) etc.

quote:Originally posted by Rouben Malayan: quote:I can tell you are a great admirer of Byron. Rightfully so. You are not alone, you are not the only incurably narcissistic Armenian who are ready to call god any one who says even one Arpa, its no shame to take pride in our achievments but still remain realistic and objective to our own faults and flaws. Armenians are talented people who contributed a lot to the world' culture, so it makes me proud (yes, proud) to read such admiration from one of the greatest poets of all times. Lets separate dirt from the gold. We got plenty of both. Regards, Rouben Hello Rouben,Once again you fail to seen who the author of the above quoute is.Of all the forumers I always try to bring the positive about us. You may go to my profile and see what I have written. As I said previously I may be one of the most incurable chauvinists. If what you say is true and you believe so then you owe us and explanation as to why 90 percent of us are stuck at the Genocide and are obssessed and paralyzed by its wake. How many Daniels and Siamantos have we produced since, how many Arams and Armens? Granted, we have produced Sevaks and Charentses but you will notice that they are all natives of Erevan Province. What have we accomplished in the Diaspora, specially in the arts and sciences since? It is time we got off our big fat buffs and live and produce rather than hide behind our tragedies and blame our sterility to events that we had no control over. I lied again. We had a lot of control over our destiny but we let them happen regardless, perhaps so we can weep and lament, something we have become masters of.

quote:Originally posted by 564312:Arpa I want to ask why u say that srika word was adapted from Asurian or Aramaic I think it’s the other way around. Actually you can find Armenian word traces in many languages, Hindu, English, French even Chinese. In the Anglo-Saxon chronicle it says “ Part 1: A.D. 1-748 The island Britain is 800 miles long, and 200 miles broad and there are in the island five nations; English, Welsh, (or British) Scottish, Pictish, and Latin. The first inhabitants were the Britons, who cam from Armenia and first peopled Britain southward……” Read Movses Khorenaci to know accurate Armenian History I am sure you have read Vahagni snund@. I love Byron and unlike the popular scientific beliefs of today he wrote about Armenia & abated. and the dove alighted. ======= But with the disappearance of Paradise itself may be dated almost the unhappiness of the country, for though long a powerful kingdom, it was scarcely ever an independent one, and the satraps of Persia and the *****s of Turkey have alike desolated the region wheri God created man in his own image". Please explain "Britons, who came from Armenia" part. I have also heard that the Celts came from Asia Miinor etc. I have yet to see conclusive extensive and independent account of that.I must remind you that you are speaking to one the world's most unabashed chauvinist. No, that is not a dirty word as some crack philosophers on this forum may want you to believe. I have stated on numerous occasions that when a word or any cultural trait is common to Armenian and other languages it is most probably Armenian. However many words have been lost to us and have been preserved in other languages, most often in the Persian languages. The reason why our etymologists shy away from claiming ownership. As to my assertion that it may be from the Assyrian or the Aramaic, besides the fact that you ignored my reference to Arabic, you may have a point. First off, Arabs boast of having one the world's most extensive language, that they may have over a hundred words for the camel and others, they are right, their language is huge for a reason. From everywhere they went, every country and culture they conquered and dominated they virtually totally absorbed and adopted the culture and language, they enriched their vocabulary, it may not be an exaggeration to say that a great portion of the Arabic language is from Aramaic and Assyrian(both being Semitic). I wish we could say the same about us. (But that is another subject that I may address some day). When I said that it may be from Assyrian I was writing from memory and I was hazy only knowing that I would be safe in assuming that. See above. And now I had to go to the source and confirm my assertion. The article is found at the end of the Aramatakan under the topic of Haykakanq (Armeniaca)as an addendum. "Srika" is one of a few that had to be added as Ajarian had either totally missed or he had given inadequate or erroneous information. Here is what he has to say; Srika:(translation in quotes below) "Erek tari araj @nker Gevorg Jahoukian@ indz arajarkel er.... Three years ago @nker Gevorg Jahoukian suggested that I interpret this word as from Assyrian since most Armenian words that end in -ay(aj)are. I had originally ascribed the word to Arabic because it is reminiscent of "sariq" (Arabic thief). At that time I had not found the corresponding Assyrian word. Indeed, in the Armenian words that end in ay(aj) are usually loaned from the Assyrian, words like tgha, katsa, shghta, tzntzgha, shuka, satana and qahana(this last one is interesting, I may write about it sometime, me, Arpa). In Brockelmann's Assyrian dictionary we find the root word 'sraq' which is transleted to mean 'to loot' (koghoptel. It is also juxtaposd with the Arabic word 'srq' 'to steal' (goghanal). Under this root word are also mentioned synonyms like Ass. 'sriqa' 'vain' (zour) and 'empty/vain' (ounayn), as well as 'suraqa' 'voluntary poverty' (kamavor aghqatutyun, i.e. self depravation). In my original bararan I had derived all these words from the root word of 'zourk' (needy, deprived). Now I realize that that interpretation was wrong and I was misled by the Asyyrian sense of 'ounayn'. The Assyrian word 'sriqa' totally covers the Armenian meaning of the word that denotes 'datarkaport, gogh, avazak' (vainglorious, braggard, thief and robber)." End of quote. As to Vahagni Tsund@. Yes I have read it, I may even have written about it here. " Na hour her ouner, Bots ouner morous, Ev achkounqn eyin aregakounq". The fact that Khorenatsi takes poetic license and decribes him as having red hair does not mean we are the ancestors of every one with red hair. Yes, there are red haired Armenians, both of my brothers have blond hair and blue eyes, I don't. The fact that Sevak (black eyes) is a popular name does not make us trademark holders of that trait either, neither does Hrachya (fire eyes) mean that they have orange, flame colored eyes. The only people with pink, flame colored eyes are albinos. BTW. I am sure you know that Vardkes means "rose colored (red)hair". I can tell you are a great admirer of Byron. Rightfully so. You are not alone, you are not the only incurably narcissistic Armenian who are ready to call god any one who says even one nice word about us. This is not the proper subject topic to address that. I must warn you, you will not like what I have to say about the subject. Suffice it to say that that letter by Lord Byron would make an excellent tapanagir, en epitaph, you know, those nice words that we inscribe on the gravestones of the dearly departed. No wonder. We were almost "dearly departed" in those days and if things keep up/down we may be "dearly departed" again in the near future.

Shu-norh-a-kal yem??? Is this the ultimate acid test of armenanism? Is this the so called baptism by fire? Many an otar will show off their mastery of the Armenian language by struggling and sweating through that torturous word and by the time they manage to pronounce it and in the process murduring it, they will forever swear to not learn another word. No, thank you!! I don't use the blasted phrase. I simply say "thank you", thank you very much!! What does the phrase really mean anyway? Shnorh=grace, a-kal=recipient of? "I am the recipient of you graces"? What does it mean? How does it impart the sense of gratefulness? Granted, "grateful" and "grace" may be somehow related yet I still fail to see how "shnorhakal em" is used to mean "thank you". We will not go into the eymology of the English word, nor the French "merci" much less the Spanish "gracias" or even the Arabic "shukur", however we may consider the Italian/Latin "grazia" on which the Armenian term may have been (my suspicion) modeled. Did the Mkhitarist monks have anything to do with it? What did we use before that? Did we have a term to express gratitude before that? If you think "shnorhakal em" makes sense and that it is enticing and appetizing for others to learn our language I can make it even more enticing and appetizing(?). How about using "shnorhakalutyunner" to match "thanks"? Yes, I have the talent of making a five mile long word even ten miles long by adding that other superfluous and unnecessarily damn suffix "utyun". Why do we say "shnorhakalutyun" when "shnorhakalum" (at least one less syllable) will do? Many have at numerous times have questioned that phrase, none have found a logical reason nor have they found a reason for its use. Many have toiled and sweated to find a suitable substitute for it and many have, just as I simply given up and succumbed to the temptation of never to use "shnorhakal yem", and instead use foreign expressions depending on their adopted cultures, such as "merci", "thank you", "gracias" etc. Why must being an Armenian be such a torture? Is it designed to discourage others from learning our language? We recently celebrated that most sacred American Holiday, Thanksgiving. How do we translate it? "shnorhakalutyan ton"? Can we make it a little more cumbersome? One dictionary has "gohaton" among others. Why have we ignored all the clues and suggestions from our own language and instead literally (even if awkwardly) translated from the Latin "grazia". They have shortened and facilitated to make it attractive. What have we done? Made it prohibitively unattractive? The popular sharakan goes "Gohanam zQen" which simply means "thank you (God)", yet we ignore the wealth and beauty of our language and invent ugly and unintelligible compound words. Who does this? How much do these people, who create new words know the Armenian language? How much research goes into these processes? Or do we let illiterate clergy (probably Mkhitarists in this case) pollute and corrupt out language? Another sharakan has the phrase of "gohabanutyun ar Astvats" which simply means "words of thanks to God", yet it is our uneducated clergy ignoring all that go and invent such ugly words. Here is what Ajarian has to say about "goh". Gohounak, gohanal, shnorhakalutyun, gohounakutyun(that damn "utyun" again). If "goh" is synonymous to "shnorhakalutyun" then why do we use the latter and totally ignore the former? Are we the original masochists? Does not a simple "goh em" suffice to express our gratitude? Shunorhakal yem? Voch!! Goh em dzer bari kamouts. Thank you friend! GOHANAM barekam!!!

SRIKA!!! I called Rubo a SRIKA. I also gave the clue when I used the phrase; "You stole my thunder"! Commonly we use the word to mean "rogue/rascal", and in general a person of low moral value, a shameless low creature. It seems we are not far off the target. Isahakian quotes Abu'l Ala Al Maari when he says; "Srika e na or hayr e linum". It may be that Avetik was paying a long overdue debt using that word in the context of the work of a poet who wrote in Arabic. Yet he does not really impart the real original root meaning of the word. I don't know what word Maari may have used but Isahakian gets the message across loud and clear condemming all those who cause the birth of a child to this miserable world. He may have also hit the nail on the head, even if inadvertantly, since "srika" seems to have been borrowed from the Arabic language(It may well have been Assyrian/Aramaic). It is a variation of "sarraq/sarraqa" which even today is used to mean "thief", gogh, avazak. Why was this word so readily absorbed from the Arabic during our intimate contact with them in the 8th and 9th centuries? Who was in the habit of calling the other SRIKA, sarraq, gogh, avazak???

Harut writes; and this is probably the inharitance of the socialism. most of the government and business personnel were educated with the socialistic way of conducting business. i don't expect anything good in terms of economy as lons as those people hold the power. hopfully people who believe in free market will emerge soon. -------------------- BA?!?! ==== Yes Harut, you have learned your lesson pretty good. You have mastered the art of "passing the buck" to a perfection. Of course, "socialism" of less than a century has modified our behavior so much to become corrupt thieves and cynical opportunists, yet how we forget that for over 17 centuries we were another kind of "socialists" that some call "christianity". How soon we foget our roots and mimic others not only in the case of "socialism" but also in the case of the latter "ism". Is it not about time that we invent aother kind of "ism". I meant WE INVENT, for a change, let us invent something instead of falling for other peoples' "isms" while in the meantime forgetting our own "ism" whatever the hell it may be. How is Armeninism? Better yet, how about patriotism. You give us the definition. The authors and inventors of socialism and commuinism never subscribed to it (neither did they subscribe to that other "ism" described above), are doing very well. Thank you. Those who produced Lenins and Stalins are not doing so badly either. Thank you again. Only if we could stop blaming everbody and their cousin for our misfortunes and start taking our fortune and destiny in our own hands... Which brings us.... Rubo wrote; I know how I can help Armenia-I will go to an Armenian stores and buy Turkish candy, Turkish dry fruit, Turkish whatever and I will go home and listen Turkish music with the added confusion of thinking it is an Armenian music and to top it off talk Turkish to your kids instead of Armenian. That’s it, call it twisted identity problem! Yes MJ I also agree that we need people with vision. "When there is no vision people will parish" -------------------- Armenian Solidarity ====== Rubo, you, you, you SRIKA Rubo! (You will get the point when I write about this word). How dare you STEAL my thunder!! I have been mulling and fuming over this subject for the past few days. Over the holidays I was at some "Armenian" stores where I had to navigate through aisle after aisle to find something that was not a product of Turkey. Figs from Turkey, dried fruits from Turkey, hardware from Turkey, and as you say, so called music... Guess who is buying them! I did not see any Turkish customers, neither did I see any Irish ones. As if that was not enough I was at a nationawide store where they were stocking the shelves with holiday "chirs" (not a typo, I spelled it as a pun, as in "chir u chamich"). One item caught my eyes, it was bright (orange) and shiny, a product of Sunsweet, the company that brings us raisins and prunes and other dried fruits and nuts. I could not resist, I picked up a package, it was Dried Apricots. My immediate thoughts were; "Oh good, they are selling an Armenian fruit, could it be from Yerevan Province"? Close!!?? It was labeled in bold and huge letters; "Product of Turkey". Who said apricot, Prunus Armeniaca was an Armenian fruits?!! Is anything sacred any more??!! Please join me in singing Tsirani Tsar. MosJan, sorry, your "(powered by) Apricot juice" caused all this diarrhea of the mouth. BTW Rubo, it is "perish" not "parish"

While we are waiting for a point by point comparison, or no comparison of our histories and legacies, and I am serious, I demand detailed answers let us consider one thing. Armenians' obssession with the detiny of the "chosen people" is nothing new, it began the day we got to know about them, even Khorenatsi corrupted our culture and history to find parallels and the rest is history as they say. The only parallel that I can think of is that fact that both peoples are extremely paranoid and xenophobic. Their history is one long vhain of wars (read that book that is supposed to be their history) there is not a day of peace, not one word of love and friendship towards anybody. Our paranoia and xrnophobia can easily be thr cause of our failure and pettiness, we have constantly grown smaller both in numbrs and and land. Both people are extremely paranoid of their neighbors, both pepl xenophobic towards their neighbors, both people have a narrow definition of ethnicity and nationality. When is the last time anybody became Armenian? When is the last time we accepted and adopted an "otar" to become Armenian? When is the last time anybody expressed the desire to be Armenian? How many of us got lost into other nationalities and ethnicities? We constantly talk about marrying a non Armenian, there is a thread going on as we speak. When is the last time an "otar" spouse bceame Armenian? Would we accept them? I have known couples who are married for over 50 years and yet the spouse is always introduced as an "otar". Naturally we qould be afraid of marrying an "otar" since it is a one way path, away, not towards us. The more we emulate them the more we will keep losing, not only souls but also soil and numbers. Can we find another model to fashion our destiny upon. Why are we choosing the worlds most paranoid, xenophobic, hostile and offensive people as our model? They have constantly risen in war against their neighbors, they say it was ordered and ordained by God (BS!!), When is the last Armenia rose in war against any of its neigbors? When is the time that Armeniantook even a grain of sand from their naighbors? Evidence is to the contrary. Why can't we try and emulate people like the British, the French, the Swiss, the Indonesians (ssee how thwy arw growing) or even the Autralian aborigines as models. Dare I say emulate the Turk? Does it have to be those SOBs who have never had a friend in the entire world, who have never had even a moment of peace during their entire history? And the prospect gets even dimer as we speak. Why can't we aspire towards more nobility? Do we have to emulate thw worlds' most offensive, hostile and xenophobic people? Can we talk about ourselves and see what it is that makes us tick or rather not tick? It is time we stop denying our mistakes and shortcomings and blaming it on others be it the Jew or the Turk. They are doing just fine, at least for the moment. Let us wprry about ourselves and find out what it is that we did or did not do to find ourselves in these dire straits, that we constantly grown smaller and weaker and keep growing(?) weaker and smaller by the day. Can we please not talk about them? Two thousand years of aspiring to be like them has won us.... you tell me.

Here is what Armenian sources say about Lord Byron, (born George Noel Gordon Byron 1788, died 1824 Missolounk, Greece.) In 1816 Byron visited Sourb Ghazar in Venice where he acquainted himself with Armenian culture by the Mkhitarist Brotherhood. He learned the Armenian language from Fr. H. Avgerian and attended many seminars about language and history. He wrote "English grammar and the Armenian" in 1817, and "Armenian grammar and the English" (1819) in which he quoted samples from classicanl and modern Armenian. He participated in the compilation of an English Armenian dictionary (1821) and he wrote the preface where he explained the relationship of the Armenians with and the oppression of the Turkish "*****s" and the Persian satrapes, and their struggle of liberation. His two main translations are the Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, several chapters of Khorenatsi's History and sections of Lambronatsi's "Orations". When in Polis he discovered discrepancies in the Armenian v the English version of the Bible and translated some passages that were either missing or deficient in the Englsih version. His fascination was so great that he attempted to replace the Cain story of the Bible with that of the legend of Haik(I don't understand this). He may be credited with the birth of armenology and its propagation. In 1823 he moved to Greece and participated in the revolution against the Ottoman rule where he was commander of one of the battallions. In 1824 he contracted a fever and died as a result. His profound lyricism and ideological courage has inspired many an Armenian poet, the likes of Fr. Gh. Alishan, Smbat Shahaziz, H. Toumanian, Ruben Vorberian and others.

Damn it Rubo! You don't seem to undestand. Your obssession and fetish with a certain paople borders on perversion. I thought we agreed to not compare and invoke certain people on this forum. Let me repeat. What is wrong with us Armenians? Why do we talk about Turks and Turkey 100 times more than we talk about ourselves? Why do we talk about those other idiots 1000 times more? Maybe I can understand the first. We have lived with the Turks for almost a thousand years, we have had much intercourse (literally at times), we still do. We have been neighbors, if reluctantly for ten centuries, we still are. When were we neighbors with those other people? When did we even walk in the same path, even if at opposite sides of the road. Where is it written that we have parallel past, present and future? Is it a figment of our imagination? Show me at least ONE evidence where they have said anything even close to it. Show me at least ONE instance where they have even acknowledged our existence. And now tell us why you and many like you feel the need to justify our very being by searching a link. Can we exist without their say so?!!! quote:Some on this forum have made statements such as “Armenia doesn’t have much of history” which incidentally brought strong opposite reactions from me to the contrary.Who said that and when? quote:Small nations not only do have history but also by simply surviving through onslaught of victor nations deserve respect. Israel is such example. Through her entire existence she has been invaded on numerous times just like Armenia but like Armenia Israel survived and this very survival is her greatest achievement but unlike Israel Armenia “does not have history” worthy of scholastic research or insight?Israel survived what?Israel has a history of less than 60 years. If you wish that we had the same legacy and destiny, think again. They have not had even one moment of peace since 1948, and the prosepct seems even dimmer as time goes on. Is that your wish for us? If you mean "history" by all those lies and fables then I have nothing to say. I will not comment about the histocity of our existence, it is self evident. Please show us one shred of evidence that there in fact was an Abraham, a Moses etc. I have heard this from their own mouths that there is no evidence. Myths and mythology. David's historicity is questioned, some suggest that there was not even a Solomon. Again, there is no historical and archeological evidence. Every inch of Palestine has been excavated. Would we not know if there were even a shred of evidence. What some people call "history" is nothing more than myth and wishful thinking. Why is their mythology taken as historical fact while we defile, ignore and reject our own? You may ignore all the above but I DO INSIST THAT YOU AND OTHERS COMPARE AND CONTRAST OUR RESPECTIVE HISTORIES. I will not accept anything short of point by point comparison, era by era, century by century, incident by incident. You must show us how our past, our present and future have any parellel. Let's get to the bottom of this. I want to be convinced. Convince me. Show us step by step. However many points it takes, but do it systematically, i.e.; Our past is parallel; 1...... 2..... 3..... etc. Our our prsent is identical. 1....... 2...... 3..... etc. Our future is similar. 1....... 2...... 3....... I don't want fairy tales. Show us facts. Lastly, when you present your points bear in mind that we were murdered in our homes and not 10,000 miles away. That we have not recovered even a red cent while they are still collecting reparations as we sepak(I know this for a fact personally). Our pleas with the great governments fall on deaf ears while they have the world by the tail. Why our lobbies are kmpotent while the world is begging for their favors! Is it because the world is mad of 6 billion Rubos who believe all those fables and lies?. Christians are being massacred even as we speak all beacuse of them(news of today; An evangelical missionary nurse was killed in South Lebanon) Rubo, I am serious. Let's get to the bottom of this AND THEN HOLD OUR PEACE ONCE AND FOR ALL, LET US NOT SPEAK ABOUT THEM AGAIN.I want answers.Convince me. As far as I am concerned if we never speak about them again it will be too soon. Can we talk about ourselves? Can we talk about them as many times aas they talk about us? Rubo, do you Armenian history? Let's hear it! Can we not waste time and talent about them? How stupid can we be????!!!!