Arpa

quote:Originally posted by MosJan:Arpa jan - Mejlis - yete hishum es Sayat Nova filmum - Mejlis - yerb Parsik Ashur@ galsi ir sazov yev Sayati VArpet@ " USTA" irar het Mejlis en anum - Mrtsum en - yergov yerv yeraj@shtutyamb - iy es mejlisi masin e xosq@s kneres vro I`sk@zbane mitq@ kam ogtagortsman paragan cheyi nshel. MOvses Dear Movses, Now I understand the gist of your question. However it still does not change the outcome. Mejlis means sitting/nist. Persians use it too just as the Turks. In fact the "mejlis" is the Persified/Turkified form while in the Arabic it would rather be spelled and pronounced as "majles". Using the word to mean a contest/mrtsoum does make sense as it is a meeting(mark this word)where they come to meet, sit and compete against each other. The contest may be between two or more contestants. We also know that often words take a whole new meaning based on its usage and the circumstances. That's why I said to mark the word "meeting". In the English language often a contest is called a meet and at other time a heat. Of course, to Sayat Nova every meeting/sitting was contest and we also know that he "killed" the opposition every time as he still does. I must thank you again for teaching me another word. Speaking of which I also learned that "mrtsoum" is based on the Armenian root word of "mourts" (it took me a while to find it. When I could not find mrtsoum as such in the Ajarian I began to think that may be it was based on "merts"? No. "mirts"? No. Then I thought "mourts", sure enough. Mrtsoum is based on "mourts" which simply means "kroup/brounts/prountsq" as in krpamart, a fist as in a boxing contest. BTW the Hanragitaran has a monograph about "mejlis", it defines it as parliamanet as used by the Persians and the Turks. Of course we also know that "zhoghovurd" is from "zhoghov/zhoghovel" to gather to meet, i.e. "zhoghovurd" are those who come together, meet, assemble, hence a a gathering, a throng, or simply "people".

Addendum. As an afterthought I looked up Soukyasian Homanishneri Bararan. Sure enough, among others "nist" is also defined as "zhoghov".

quote:Originally posted by MosJan:Hello i need the Armenian word for Mejlis - and if anyone knows the rules of Mejlis Thank you Movses Mejlis is an Arabic word which is currently used to describe any formal gathering. i.e. it is used to mean parliament. Literally it is based on the verb "jls"=to sit, therefor "mejlis" would literally mean a "sitting", nstil.Its literal Armenian translation would be "nist". We do use that word to mean a formal gathering. Of course now we understand why Sayat Nova would use the word since during his days a group of people, like musicians would sit on cushions in a circle, just as parliamentrians would also sit on cushions. Qo nisterum saz chi paksi.

Once again we are hyperventilating and in the peocess losing our direction. Reaction! Reaction! Where is the action!!?? It reminds me of the time when the Turks were nominating Ataturk as the MOM (man of the millenium) and we were once again being derailed and deranged. Another time it was rumored that Hollywood was shooting an epic movie about Ataturk and that Banderas would be the star. During both of those fiascos my reponse was; Who do WE nominate as MOM? And who is OUR Ataturk? Do we have one single person that we can nominate as Man of THe Year/Millenium? Do we have one single national hero acknowledged and admired by us? Every one of us? We bring yoghurt (an Armenian word)to America we tell them it is Turkish. We bring sourj to America we call it Turkish coffee. We bring apukht to America we advertise it as Turkish basturma!!! You complete the list and stop crying when your church holds a food festival and features dolma(Turkish), sarma (Turkish)....., and so on, ad infinitum, ad nuaseam. STOP CRYING! DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT before somebody uses the symbol of Haik as the Anatolian(read Turkish)ancestral patriarch. How many of your (otar) neighbors know who Haik is? How many know who Ataturk is?

quote:Originally posted by Varduhi: quote: Most of them do not know who Martiros Saryan, Minas Avetissian, Komitas, hambartsumian, Carzou and many other great armenians are. who knows about Victor Hambartsumian and his life? Ov giti Victor Hambartsumyani kyank@ ev ira aprats verji tarineri masin? I will be happy to hear from you... thanks Sireli Varduhi, Du qo shounj@ mrrkin es talis. Avagh!!! You are whistling in the wind. Alas!! Ever since you posted the above challenge and plea the silence has been deafening! You see? You don't seem to know what makes us jump. Can't you see that we are busy? Can't you see that we waste all of our talents responding to garbage? If you really want to hear a lot of noise/aghmuk what should you do is hit those two resident parap takars collectively known as HAG-ARA. Join the ranks of the enslaved. Join the ranks of those whose only (re)action is to respond to the trash that the aforementioned dish out. They have us exactly ehere they want us to be, wallowing in the sewer. They are no differnt from the Turk who also has us exactly where they want us, wallowing and wreathing in the blood of the Genocide. NOT ME!!!Armenian Eisntein?? My v...k!!! Then again, may be he is, since Eisntein was an imposter as well. [He brought one single theory that he had stolen from his county of birth and voila! He is a prophet??Guess why he is the best known (non)physicist??]I wish those two would seek professional help and find out what it is that makes them such damaged merchandise. To me, not only those two are spitually damaged but judging from their tirades, I suspect that they may have been physically traumatised in their youth as well. Use your imagination, interpret any way you want. A note of caution though. When reading those two hold your nose lest you throw up and cover your ears lest you go deaf too. As to Victor, I will leave that to others, aside from the fact that he may as well be one our most ilustrious sons and an international STAR. His biography, his acheivements and awards, his honorary membership in every possible astrophysical institution, his affiliation to the most prestigious international academies is a matter of record. Victor Hamazaspi Hambartsumian was born on Sep. 18, 1909 in Tiflis and died in 1996 in Yerevan. Among his later star performances were his hunger strike in Moscow, along with some of his soulmates, in behalf of liberation of Artsakh which proved to be more than anyone could have bargained, i.e. the collape of the ...Empire, and independence of Armenia. However, as above I will not talk about him. Instead I will talk about a colleague of his, another star in that constellation of illustrious scientists of Burakan Obeservatory. When I say STAR I mean it literally as you will see. Benyamin Eghisheyi MARGARIAN. (upper case, you will see why.) Born in Shulamer (Shahumian in the Marneuili region) Nov. 29, 1913. Astronomer, scientist, member of the Academy of Science. President of the International Astronomical Society (1976-79). Graduated from the Yerevan Faculty of Physics, 1938. Deputy director of the Burakan Observatory (1953, Guess who was the chief director?) Just as in the case of Victor Benyamin's awards and his international cudos are astronomical:) in number but his most luminous halo is the Galaxy that he discovered and identified that is named for him(1965). It is internationally known and acknowledged as !!!!MARGARIAN GALAXY!!!!

Here she is. Hasmik Papian. http://www.agmnet.net/papian/archives/cat_about.html

Click on the site below and open Saturday Feb. 1, 2003 and get thrill of the millennium. I am going. Who else? http://www.metopera.org/season/february/

quote:Originally posted by nairi: quote:Originally posted by koko:Anoush is not a persian word. Is has no meaning in persian, they must have taken it from the armenian ANOUSH. Very possible. Here's another version for Anoosh Berd: The fort was called "Shirini Ghasr" in Farsi, which literally means "Sweet fort" or "Sweet prison". The story goes that whoever was sent to Shirini Ghasr never came back. Armenians started calling it "Anoosh Berd" for that reason: the fort/prison where your (h)ush dies. Gradually "anoosh" became an equivalent for "shirini", or "sweet". Don't take the above too seriously. I only heard it through the grapevine. It could very well be completely wrong. Atta boy/girl Nairi.!!! I am liking it even more now. Why not? I have said it on numerous occasions that many words may have been loaned out and reloaned in. Ajarian is the master of Armenian etymology and his work is the masterpiece but even I have, at times noticed incomplete or inaccurate conclusions. However valuable his work may be, and it is, one must not forget that it was written almost a century ago and now we know even more. Besides we have such hi-tech tools now that he did not have. We need people to continue his work and modernize it according the wealth of knowledge available to us. Beside, we know so many more languages now. Not to forget that Hrachya was born in Istanbul and his first language was Turkish. Often he cannot hide that bias. PS. I have not yet found a reliable source about Anush Berd.

quote:Originally posted by koko: [/qb][/quote

quote:Originally posted by Domino:Arpa, About "Phil" or "Philo", I heard that in latin or Greek(?) don't remember exactlly which language, it meant the "Friendship" kind of love, like "Friend" and thats the ethimology of the word Philosophia, "Friend of Wisdom" Yes.In fact the official nickname of Philadephia is "the city of brotherly love". See below: I found this song/poem on the internet. ===== philadelphia from philadelphia (1993) philadelphia sometimes i think that i know what love's all about, and when i see the light i know i'll be all right. i've got my friends in the world, i had my friends, when we were boys and girls and the secrets came unfurled city of brotherly love, place i call home, don't turn your back on me. i don't want to be alone. love lasts forever. someone is talking to me, calling my name. tell me i'm not to blame, i won't be ashamed of love. philadelphia. city of brotherly love, brotherly love. sometimes i think that i know what love's all about, and when i see the light i know i'll be all right. philadelphia. words and music by neil young

There are many people who would love to have Armenians listed as terrirists, but two in particular, who will remain unnamed. Only so much that they are both MiddleEstern. They would love it for Armenia to fall out of favor, and there may be those in Washington who are too willing to oblige. One way it can be done is to stress on the fact that Armenian's biggest trade and cultural partner is... yes, a "terrosist state"... Iran. Guilt by association? The world would such a better and peaceful place without those two!!!

quote:Originally posted by EZ: quote:Originally posted by Azat:Harut jan, another way to say donkey is ass. Now I'm getting confused. What does "esh" mean? I looked up the english "donkey", but it doesn't exist in my EA dictionary. Which word in E Armenian should I use for "ass" and what for "donkey"?Why do eshes have long ears?When god was distributing brains the esh was busy eating gari ev hart. Those are the two things that rot one's brains, specially the water extracted from gari, i.e garejur:) Anyway, it was eshe's turn so god pulled him by the ear (yes, him)aside and said; Qo anun@ esh e! OK. Next day the did not respond to the roll call. god called him aside (again by the ear)and asked him why he had not reponded. It turned he had not recognized his own name. So god told him again; "Qo anun@ esh e, lsir, esh e" whie puling on his ear. This happened several times. Now you understand why eshes have long ears. Some people say I have long ears too:) Yes! Esh is the Armenian form of "ass". The other meaning of "ass" is in fact a corruption of "arse". I think I have written this before, but it's OK, many of us have long ears and busy with other subjects as Genocide etc. Many think that esh/eshek is Turkish. I thought so for many years. It turns out it is not, it cannot be since it is IndoEuropean while Turkish is not. Esh is the Armenian form of "equus" (a generic term applied to the horse/donkey family). It is derived from the protoIE "ekwos". It can be found in many variations in most IE languages including the English "ass". The next time you call somebody ESHEK don't feel guilty. It is Armenian not Turkish, they took it from us in the form of eshouk/ishouk or eshik (little donkey)except that those esheks seem to be a little smarter than these esheks who are in the habit of rejecting everything that has been polluted by them even if they may have been devout Christian Armenians at one time turkified by force or necessity. We forget the verse; "Tur indz dzerq@d, eghpayr enq menq vor mrrkov eyinq zatvatz". Who said that?

The morning after? Zghjoum? ARAMAC has already recanted and corrected the error saying that there "Armenia is not on that list". However some of us would have loved if there were such a list. That would have given a legitimate reason to gripe against America, i.e bite the hand that feeds them. PS. If need be I cannot repost the latest bulletin from Aramac.

quote:Originally posted by Harut: You see Harut, I am not "ap-erakht", so accept my khorin erakhtiq@. But if you reject it I will file for "ap-harzan"

PhilArmenia. Some time ago we saw that Phobia Armeniaca was not a fruit. PhilArmenia is not a symphonic orchestra either. Although the Yerevan Philharmonic is one the world's best, I should, know I saw them perform several times. Yes at the Yerevan Philharmonic Theater. The next day I saw Arshak II at the National Opera House. (Those who have doubts about my Chrsitian heritage as well, take heed. Although what I am going to write has very little to do with religion, we will also notice that words I am going to use will be challenged in the Biblical context. And I also made known that I know the Bible by heart, not to say necessarily I believe everything I read. So... watch out!!! BTW. I know what Christianity is and by my strict definition Armenians don't qualify. You don't believe me? Read some of the poison pen posts on this forum). PhilArmenia means Haykakan Ser, Love of Armenia. In the Armenian language there may be many synonyms to "ser/love" but most of them have slightly different tinge, such as hamakranq, gorov etc. In the Greek there are three words that are used in some capacity to mean love. Each of them has a sligtly different meaning. The first is Agape. This word does not appear in the Old Testament, understandably since agape is spiritual love, as love towards one's sister brother, friend etc. There is eros. It is used to mean physical love as in sex. This is the kind of love that one would see in the OT as it refers to loving one's wife or sex partner. Then there is philia. This is love towards ideas. Take words like philosophy that means love of mind, thought. BTW. Philip means lover of horses as in phil-hippos. We spoke about our fears and hates under the subject topic of Phobia Armeniaca. Let us see how and what is that we love in Armenian and Armenia. Let us join the philharmonia and sing the anthem of PhilArmenia; Yes im anush Hayastani arevaham barn em siroum... .... Ou Nayirian aghchikneri hezajkoun parn em siroum.... .... Ahkhar antsir Ararati nman jermak gagat chka Inchpes anhas parqi jampa, yes im Masis sarn em siroum. BTW, Philharmonia means "love of harmony/music".

Read MJ's note again. I saw it and I knew exactly what he was referring to. He is the biggest practical joker on this forum. His styel is known as sarcasm or tic in the least (tongue in cheek). Ergidzanq for those who have trouble with the roamnce languages. What he is sarcastically referring to is that some days ago some "commissars" labeled as non-hye when I showed hesitancy in identyifying our heritage with our religion or the lack thereof. In their definition an Armenian is Christian first then whatever the hell they may be.

Harut. How amnit of me. What am I apush? You already gave the answer ab=without, oush=mit(q). [ December 19, 2002, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: MosJan ]

quote:Originally posted by MosJan: quote:Originally posted by MJ:I remember also that it is narrated in Armenian literature that our king Arshag II was imprisoned in the Iranian castle called Anoush, which perhaps also points at the Persian/Pahlavi connection. Arpa, Since you are not Armenian, and therefore, not worthy of God's grace, we can offer you baptism in the Armenian Orthodox Church so that to, at least partially, be worthy of a presence in a Hye Forum, moreover, to be entitled to an opinion. Off the type of my head, I can even think of few guys who could be your Godfather, to provide you with necessary spiritual guidance in your unworthy life on a capacity of an Odar. Time is running out on you. Vochinch chem haskanumMj Arpan Hye chi ?? menak chases te Hye chi - lseq kam es Ricolan mej@ mi ban uni vor urrer@s chi gortsum - kam el astavst gity te inch.... Yete Arpan Hye chi ouremn inchu Varduhin Hyeren a grum indz handep. Che vor yes Hyeren chem haskanum.Yes MJ I need baptism like another hole... in my... head. I was baptized in the River Arpa. Harut, what took you so long? Arden oushatsel es! I was expecting something like that from you. In fact I had other meanings to oush as in "Ush lini anush lini". As to the meaning of "mitq", you're not going to like this either. Oush as in mitq, consciuosness is also used in Persian. Zandi "ush/hoosh" means thought consciousness and "behush" means meaningless, unsconscious. Hishir vordyak! housh/hishel is also based on "ush/hush". I'll have to find out where "oush" as in "late" comes from. I must look u "apush". In the meantime note that the a- prefeix is used as negative here too. Varduhi, the fact that I have a good mastery of the English language does not disqualify me. I have equal mastery of Armenian as well. Read some of my translations in the poetry section. (Anlreli Zangakatun) Oh, yes! I like khash and apukht as well. How much more Armenian van one be??? You will notice that I said "apukht". Turks call it basturma.

quote:Originally posted by Sip: quote:Originally posted by nairi:Anoosh as a Persian word, with a Persian root: I have no idea. Never heard of it, although Sipan might know. Hmmmmm ... this is also the first I am hearing of any connection between Anoosh and a persian root. As of right now, I doubt that is really true. Actually, my mom's name is Anoosh So knowing my grandparents, I doubt they would name their first child something that had a persian root!!! But of course keep in mind I'm just a 1's and 0's guy Akh Anush, Anush ed inch es asum, Ou khendi nman baner es asum, Im sirtn es kotrum. Ay Anush, Anush... Anasvats Anush! Anush does not mean "kaghtsr" at all. Altough it is used in that sense more often than not, it in fact means, hamov, tasty, appetizing, pleasant etc. Bazhakajar is one of the most popular forms of Armenian (folk)literature and one who cannot deliver a good bazhakajar is not fit to be called Armenian:) For those of us who are not talented in the art of composing good toasts there may be help. All you have to say is "anush lini/ella". Yes the word "anush" is common with Persian. Stop! Don't shoot me! I did not say "from Persian", I said "common with.." It is customary that when we find a word in a neighboring language we automatically ascribe it to them. Our culture has had so many upheavals that some times we look in other sources to get the original meanings. Anush does not mean kaghtsr/sweet. It means tasty. But when we look into the Pahlavi use of it we will see that the original meaning had nothing to do with taste. It means "anmah", deathless, immortal. How did it come to mean tasty"? Through bazhakajars. When the toastmaster rose and said "anush lini" we automatically assumed he was referring to the food or drink whereas he was wishing the toastee immortality/anmhutyun. Yo get the rest. In the Shahname there are two words that are used often one being "aosha" to mean death and the other "anaosha" to mean dethless. It is obvious and well known fact in the Persian and the Armernian just as well in many European languages the -an prefix means negative/without. Therefore an-osh, an-ush means anmah. Hayastan@ anush lini!!! Note; When looking up the word in places like the Ajarian look under "an-ouysh" The "flower" meaning in the persian comes from "anosh" that means eternal, deathless nectar. BTW. Persians use the word as a feminine name as well.

quote:Originally posted by HOVSEP KASHISHIAN:What happen here???? did you intelectuals lost your tongues , no answer to my post , looks like you guys dried out , I am not surprised . Voch Sireli Hovsep.Menq takavin hos enq. You will notice that this subject was initiated inder the subject topic of "language". And I did, at numerous times say that, among other topics this forum makes provisions for discussions of theology, religion and church affairs, but when one senses that Armenians cannot talk about any subject, they cannot talk about any subject without invoking religion, antireligion, atheism and a plethora of other "isms" to help bail them out of admitting their WEAKNESSES and stop blaming everybody in sigth for our failures, then, you are right, the; "the cat will eat our tongues". One gets tired of "blowing in the wilderness" some of us are mummified from lack of moisture and growth. If you want to talk about language and culture, leaving religion and denominational factors out say so, maybe then we will resume talking. In other words when you and your buddies learn to separate religion and culture, church and state, maybe then we will sepeak the same "language". Please don't tell us what to belive and, if I choose so....NOT.

quote:Originally posted by MJ:Like the old Yerevan joke said, "I will declare war to America and will surrender immediately." P.S. Just kidding. Ha anybody seen the farcical movie "The Mouse That Roared"? I think Peter Sellers was the leading actor.That is the exact scenario that MJ is suggesting.By all means, find it and view it. It perfectly fits the present Armenia saga. Mote; If you can't find it at your neighborhood video store I can furnish a synopsis.

TB or not TB, that is the question. As Shake Esperian would have said. What? You did not know that Old Bill was Armenian? She had, yes she, the courage to abbreviate her name and anglicize it, and volia! Shakespeare!! With all seriousness aside, as that great American philosopher Steve Allen would say, I would like to offiicially nominate TB for president)of Upper Slobovia?) This is one of the best posts I have read on this forum. This is is what we need; Creative writing. To not forget not taking ourselves so seriously. Nobody said Armenians cannot have fun. BRAVO TB!!! TB must have finally discovered that it is better to turn the "light bulb" on rather than curse the darkness. Except. Where does one get electricity. Does anybody here know how to jump/splice a high tension power line?

How rude of me! How xenophobic can one get! Here we have several newcomers and instead of spreading the welcome mat and welcoming each of them we are attcking them. Offense is the best defense, it has been said, yet here, instead of attacking, being on the offensive we are dedending ourselves. Is this what our amcestors hads to do about 17 c4nturies ago? When Armenia was inveded by the evangelizers and missionaries telling us what bad people we were? BTW, Welcome Tig, WH and 123456. What a waste!!! You guys are "casting your pearls to the swines". If you don't know where the preceding quote is refer to Matthew 7;6. You showed us your pearls, you showed us what a big and golden gndakner you have. You really cast your pearls to the swines, that is us. You preached to the preacher, you sold (tried to sell)the gardner some vegatables. What a waste. You preached Christianity and religion to those who have been there long long before you had even heard of it. Typical! Typical Armenian! If you really have that big balls, if you really believe in what you are preaching, if you really think that man will only be saved by believeing other peaoples' mythology, while in the process trashing and insulting our own, if you really believe that the world needs to know about all that I have a suggestion and a job for you. Now, once a gain, if your gndakner are so big, if you are such fearless warriors and soldiers of Christ then I have an assignment for you. Among others, there are 60 million Turks, 60 million Persians and billions of other who have never heard of Jesus. Show us how big your voriks are! Go preach to them and see what happens to you. It is easy to "save" the saved. Try to save the "unseaved" and and in the process try and save your own voriks. It is easy to preach to us. Find out how easy to preach to them. BTW. I have a sneaking suspicion that we have bee inveded by paid missionaries. Who is paying you guys to preach to us? There are so many empty pulpits, don't you think you could make a good living by filling those pulpits! Is any of you guys/gals an officer of the church, any church? Who is paying you to preach to us? What I cannot understand is how and when religion entered this thread? Did I suggest any religion in my original post? Can Armenians talk? Can Armenians talk without hiding behind slogans and hiding behind the skirts of the clergy? I know, I know. When you have no argument, when you have nothing to offer just throw the name of Jesus and watch them/us run. May I suggest to take your debates to the Forum topic of Religion and Church.If you have not yet discoverd roll the summary page down, then we will know what not to read, and waste valuable time, energy, breath and, not to foget, valuable bandwidth.

quote:Originally posted by MJ: quote:Originally posted by Arpa: quote:Originally posted by MJ:Why are Armenians xenophobic? Xenophobia is a doublen. There may few but there are. I showed my friend was relieved to knDear Arpa, I am sure you understand that my question was of rhetoric character and I share most of the views expressed by you in and out of this thread, including the one about the Christianity having nothing to do with our identity. I have the previlage of knowing a lot of admirable Armenians who see themselves as pagans, atheists or agnostics, or Hindus, and I would prefer most everyone of them to any foaming in the mouth Christian who knows nothing about Christianity, in fact. Dear MJ,I knew your question was rhetorica, I know too well, Surprise? And I am sure you know me well enough and my ability to read between the lines. But I could not resist, it gave me the impetus to expand on the subject. As to your pagan friends. I have been called that numerous times. I deem it an honor. I don't think I am an atheist, I just don't give it much thought. I have my own concept of God, it may be much diffrent from others' but I'll tell you, it is not that ridiculous caricature pictured in the BOOK. You may address me as Dear Cynic or Sireli Agnostic.

quote:Originally posted by Sip:My entire confusion around this whole topic is about this "weak" adjective. I can't understand how someone can blieve otherwise (i.e. Armenians not weak). I think it's a given fact that as a group, Armenians are WEAK. Just by sheer numbers, just by our foundation, just by the way everything has happened so far ... we are WEAK. Anyone who says otherwise, better be prepared to back it up ... of course without saying some ultra nice sounding slogan like "... we are Armenians therefore the most superior entities in the Universe ..." Yes, personality/individual each can be very strong. Maybe on average, Armenians are very stong. But as a group, we are simply VERY outnumbered, vulnerable, and weak. So now, I think the main question is, GIVEN THAT WE ARE WEAK, Chicken and egg problem solved! At least for me, in this case, in my rather simplistic ways. Well said Seap!You and I can sing a duet of Arpa Sipan song:) :)Oops ! I mean Arpa Sevan:) Confession is the first step towards salvation. People will mental disease are the prime example of this phenomenon, as long as they deny their condition and refuse to take their medicine.they cannet get well Until we confess to our weakness and start doing something about it we will remain so. Our medicine is bitter and stinky . We may have to hold our noses, but we must take it even if hurts. Bombast is a good recreation. We may do it over a bajak of oghi while we sing Azg Parabants, Hayastan Erkir Drakhtavayr etc. but as it has been said; "You can fool some of the pwople all the time, all of the people someof the time ...." Who are we fooling? We are sitting on a piece of barren rock ( and please don't correct me, I have been to Yerevan Province and I know what I am saying)that is so sahky that it can topple anyday while our neighbors are sitting on the worlds most luxurious piece of real estate that belonged to us one time. They are growing exponentially both in numbers, force and economy... Who are we fooling. I will say it one more time. Tigranes, shove it up.... Hisus? Take him home with you whereever that may be. Is Telaviv a good place? I may some day write what I know about the Bible and Hisus. You may be surprised. I know quite a bit. I can quote you chapter and verse, i.e. I have known it since before most of you were born. At the present I only read it for amusement as to how people can belive all that myhological garbage that was plagiarized and stolen from others, including ours. Yes! Noah is Armenian, they stole it from us. I have written about it in length. I can rebroadcast it if need be.