THOTH

I've read Native Son, the Invisible Man , Black Boy, and Go tell it on the Mountain...until you've read these books - then we can talk.... And just how can we educate all these po Black folk huh? Do you have any concept of the cycle of poverty and discrimination? No...you don't..and this is the problem...those like you (and Mouse...though even this is giving him more credit then he deserves) have no clue to what they are talking about. You think you are educated...well that is a laugh...education - as you have had...is not education in life, in the world...I studied with, spoken with, and protested with the lutentents of Medgar Evers, the MItchells and Murphys of Baltimore, others in the civil rights, Indain rights and womens rights movements....its so very easy to ignore and push aside these and other nasty iossues in our world (hunger, disease...such as Aids, polution and environmental disaster..)...and nice to feel smug about being a have and making fun of the have nots....etc ...and you people talk of heaven....

Did you ever hear me calling for any quotoas in any area? I see this as very beside the point. And prove to me that whites have been prevented from acces to tracks and basketball courts first. Obviously quotoa are not the ideal solution...but just the same - there can be no question that African Americans were held in (non-consensual) bondage - and even upon release faced severe discrimintaion (institutionized and otherwise) ..so yes perhaps - as a society - certain steps should be taken to allow for ipward mobility of an entrenched underclass - or do those of us with all the benefits just want to keep ti that way...perhasp we would like bootshine servants again eh? Maybe this is what privilaged people should expect...and why should such underclass people have any rights at all - I mean what kind of a philosophe could have led us down this road - respect for the rights of all men...I mean really now...sounds like some form of weak willed Christian gobblygook...not thew survival of the fittest and let the most powerful/ambitious/ruthless have the full spoils eh?

Ratymouse: Well at least I don't hold extended debates with myself...and I could certainly ask the same question of you. In fact I do find your presence here on thsi forum most distasteful. And I'm sure - the more you go on - and reveal yourself - the more otherss will agree. Anyway. I have basically made soemvery good arguments in this thread. I do not care if you acknowledge such or not - you are unimportant to me. But I do feel that I have been unfairly portrayed by you and the religio-nazis as someone who has not posted seriously on this issue - and this is very untrue. Additionally - as can be seen here - it has been the likes of Axel and such who had no argument to bring and who in the face of such began name calling. And no Mosjan - I do not forget such. I also don't forget or forgive when moderators arbitrarily edit posts that don't fit in with their religeous world views or for whatever arbitrary reasons - and are not reigned in or otherwise made to apoligize in the least for their harmful actions. But you are familiar with the concept of not forgiving arent you? Even when clearly in the wrong. So why should I be any less stubbron - when at least I have a point.

You've lost me here ArmenSarg...does this have something to do with indescriminant bloodletting?

Well Boghos - et al - I am very familiar with Mises and Hyek...heck I've even read (a bit of) Ayn Rand (as much [raving] as I could stomach...)...(just an aside - these folks all espose the sort of relativist moral framework that you supposedly deride mouse...and I would be hard pressed to at all consider them to be christian).....but anyway - you migth be surprised that I hold much with there philosphies - at least on the theoretical level - and in some cases practice - however I think that their views (taken or applied as a whole) represent an unrealisable ideal (if it is even that ...but OK i'll admit that for now) - much as Communisim - their polar opposite is. So yes - I am against government interventions and imposition wherever posible (and my past posts will certainly prove me out in this)...but I also live in the real world - and have seen where such is necessary (very...as many people and coorporations etc are just not good and don't care..etc) - in many many cases (and for instance I worked for many years doing oversite work of the EPA - and believe me - even with Governemtn rules many try everythign in the book to evade...and don't care about the consequesces) - (and past experience of more or less unbridled capitalism was such a failure that it has brought about our more socialized system - by necessity. Certainly an evil I agree - but the lesser of such in many cases)...bottom line we need to work towards a functioning balance - and more or less that is what we have...and speaking of whinning - well thats you mouse...aww big bad government...awwww..lol As for feminism...well now its femnazis and radical feminists etc etc...and sure I think that there are those who shout too loudly and complain too much and who have agendas beyond etc...this exists in everything...like you mouse - on the opposite side of the spectrum...by by and large feminism is another necesary (eveil?) well depends I guess)...but the philosophy of equal rights, oppurtunity, voice, and equal treatment and so on and so forth is something (that should be) fundemental...and this means that if women wish to work in any field and wish to funtion in non-traditional roles they should have every right to do such - without restriction or prejudice. Same goes for guys (like Sasun) - they should have a choice - if they wish to be effiminate...where dresses or what not...its OK Sasun...we would hold nothing against you for any of this really...but you mouse - as we have seen from your statements - you disagree with this - on a fundemental level - thoguh you have tried to aquirm form such - but your (own) words are there for all to see. On equality. I find it very disengenous that you mouse harp on this non-issue that anyone is claiming that men and women are equal at all things. This is a non-issue - because there is no one that holds this view. In fact women are clearly superior...LOL. They can bring life into the world and nurture such. etc etc ...by the way please list your complete criteria for measuring superiority of one sex versus the other (and arewe discounting individual variation here?)....and next I would be interested in your theories concerning race superiority. Please elabortate - I mean obviously the races are not equal are they? etc etc Yes you are pathetic. And Boghos - aside for some common economic philosophy that you two share (that I am at all not surprised at - you being just another rich uncaring bastard...LOL)...I would caution you concerning what bed you are choosing to lie in when you buddy up to one of the sort that is our mouse. Deep down it gets pretty ugly...I'm surprised you can't see this...

Yes its become obvious to me that belief in God leads to more forgivign and enlightened individuals....not. Yes go on go on...tell us more about how women are inferior, men who contribute in the home and with children are effeminate, women who speak their mind are nazis...etc etc...again we're all ears Oh and Sasun - if you don't like something I say - then just edit my posts as you have done before (actually you do not at all have my permission to do so! So sorry you'll have to just take it...or leave - for all I care!) And frankly I think you are much to volitole and biased to be a moderator here - I object to your having such a postion. You have made inflametory posts and you have arbitrarily edited the posts of others for no descernable reason.

So you say you see nothig wrong with women working or such (acting according to her inclinations as your pal Mises states...etc) - but a man who does housework or what have you (perhaps necceasary as an equal partner with a working wife...I mean we can't expect her to do it all no?) - no no to that eh? Again - as I have said all along I can read you loud and clear. You are the biggest coward and charlatan I have ever come accross on the net (probably worse then the worst of Turks I have met) - hiding behind pseudo intellectual blabber - when your true beliefs are plain to see - yet you are to much of a coward to admit. (isn't cowardice the primo sign of effimininity?) You are a women hater and a Jew hater. And critiquing Israel or Zionism is not the criteria - as I certainly do both as it fits. You have a deap seared hatred or Jews and of women - a typical INFERIORITY complaex if I've ever seen one...pitiful man.... And me effeminate*...thats a laugh...I fart in your general direction! * and for the record (Dan, Sasun etc al) - I see nothing at all wrong with men who wish to be effeminate - or who are for whatever reason...to each their own...do whatever you want woty you life....

That should be either count Steve...or neither in the case of the negative - as in: You are neither correct in your assertions nor are you important enough for anyone to care in either event....(being correct...which your not..or incorrect...which you are...)

And Anileve - it would have to be an Elph camera now wouldnt it? LOL ...and love your little story about dealing with the phone order guy and your subsequnt on-line search...had me glued in my seat rooting for ya...Go Ani! get that camera that your after! Thats it! Great deal! Way to go! LOL

Wow Ani jan - that is saying something! But shoes can be cool too (I mean those sexy ones on a lady that is)..and yeah were all ears! And its nice to see gals who can appreciate techno stuff - I mena most of it is pretty cool IMO...LOl - but I am a guy eh? Another thing..and I hope you don't mind my occasional flirt and such and comment of a sexual nature - but I really think that we have a mission to disprove the assertion that feminism somehow diminishes sexiness and play between the sexes - nothing could be further from the truth IMO - as it liberates the female to speak her mind and be more open (and what could be sexier then that IMO)..and also guys who is comfortable with women - I mean that - as women - not just as wives or servants or what have you - well - thats liberating too and to me allows for more freeplay interaction and basically opens everythign up - to more fun, for more serious - open and equal talk - all of it....so kudos to ya sexy elfkin!

Ani - thanks a bunch...actually it was really good for me to hear you say all that right now (even us pretty self - assured modern men need a little strroking sometime!)...and yes - I agree with all what you have said (girlfriend [meant like "us girls" kind of thing...and my manhood isn't threatened by saying such or thinking that way...and no Dan..i still don't want that dance...but flattered just the same)..anyway - glad to see ya back! And Anon having evn 25% ...well perhaps...he might be a good driver, or good with a hammer...who knows...

Wow great deal ani...and good for you! Got soem chutzpa thats for sure...I have ordered form these variosu New York companies many times - and ussually with great results - but you have to watch stuff like that - plus the bait ans switch...i have certainkly cancelled ordersand returned pletnty of stuff in my time...but mostly happy...as I am sure you will be with yoru camera.... Now maybe you shold start another thread - Feminism and the techno-gal! I am interersted in what other gadgety you might fancy!

Actually Anileve...except for being a good mechanic and handyman - which I am decidedly not - I pretty much fit your bill here (OK some here may argue against my being well mannered..LOL)...but lets see: Financially established - check (no probs here..) great lover - check (please consult references...LOL) intelligent - check (OK perhaps debatable as well...) a gentleman - check (always..I even help old ladies and such cross the street...really I do! etc) tall - check strong - check practical - check (Ok for the most part..) responsible - check - (very) great father - check (I certainly think so - and so does everyone else!) good handyman - (OK borderline here...) great driver - check (the best) mechanic - (no..not that i don't like gettiig dirty...see great lover...) well mannered - check (well i certianly think so - for the most part) ....but since I also cook, clean, shop (grocery, houshold, childrens things & otherwise), watch the kids (like when my wife is away on business ofr 2 weeks or several), play with my kids, help them with their homework, washing up, putting to bed, meals, etc etc etc - well I think I may be out of favor for those traditional gals aspiring for that traditional man. Shame you had changed your outlookexpectations...I was beginning to like you...

Thank you Edward Now why don't you but out and mind your own business ... j/k

One reason that I am so against Christianity - besides all the contradictions and questioanble prounouncements, utter unbelievability, very poor track record among believers and the church (inquisitin, pedeophile priests etc etc) etc etc and all the rest - is that when one examines so-called Christians - often one finds very little evidence of any real internalizing of the (good stuff from the ) religion. (its all me me me for one thing...) Certainly they don't exhibit Christian virtues in any way shape or form (and I'm talking most folks - not all)....so - just based on an observation of "believers" I am left very unimpressed - and certainly not feeling any real need or desire to be with that crowd. Now don't get me wrong - there are certianly good Christians and Christians who are fine people and what not...its just not a very easy thing to live up to - I understand.

Speak for youself. I have every right to post about whatever post I want. Or are you invoking some kind of moderator immunity?

And let me add - my post about the cavities was in direct response to the mumbo jumbo of belief as proposed by Sasun. And its not that IO am knocking his belief - i mena who really knows...I mean who really knows...but I'd be hard pressed to come up with any proof or real reason to believe any of it - over believeing any other fantasy...

What discussion? Several people have riduculed my beliefs (or lack thereof) - saying its not possble tobe an atheist or what have you - and postualted variosu believfs of theri own - fine. I say that I can aoncot an equally valid belief set - prove me wrong. That you fail to undestand my "argument" or the point I'm making - well sorry for you...but I am not being ridiculous - nor have i been this entire "discussion" ...I have presented a great many points that you folks are just not even prepared to adresss. Oh gevo says - yes these are easily refuted..and goes on to wax about God again - not even begining to discuss these paradoxxes. And I have presented ample positons that make it clear one cannot coniser atheism a religion - yes anymouse keeps at it. So who is it that is posting here with nothing to say? I guess its alla matter of your perspective...but I am certainly entitled to mine.

God wants us to brush our teeth 3 times a day. And my - he does hate cavities. Cavaties are a sign of the devils influence - and he is bad. I have no cavities I am pure and filled with the spirit of the lord. I will suck on the divine tit in heaven forever while you poor sods - motuhs filled with cavities - you will shovel the deveils shit forever and burn burn burn!. Too bad sucka's!

Athesism is not a religion. I've already explained this in sufficient detail. And where T F did God come from if not out of nothing? And if you people can't see that you are condescending and negative towards aethists, atheisim - and in general believers of things other then what you accept - then i'm sorry for you (which i am anyway). That you all pin this on me - well thats just bullshit. I have posted quite seriously and quite extensively. i have shown where thereare contradictions in your concept of God - where he cant be jst good and both good and eveil simulataneously (and who T F is he saving us from? His own damnation)...anyway - yes its all a big waste of time. Like I said - i beleive that if I brush my teeth 3 times daily I'm going to heaven (and look - you ridiculed my belief - how nasty pof you!) - yes you cannot at all prove me wrong. And I see heaven as one big tit to suck on - prove me wrong? Can't you see - its all make beleive - tooth fairy stuff...and there are infinite possibilities - each which cannot be disproved. Just as there are believers of other religions - who are just as passionate as you. And we have already discussed before the derrivitive nature of most all Christian (and old testament) scripture...its really not all that orignial in the least. And just because you cannot concieve of somthing comming out of nothing (or out of whatever - bubbles colliding etc) - does not mean that there must be a "god' to kick start things - this is the ultimate paradox iof ther ever was one. ...faith in God you cannot question - fine...but don't also then go around saying that there is no such thing as Atheisim - or that it is a religion - as you know nothing! (obvioulsy) And yes - if your God did exist - (whatever it may be...)...but based on the Bible - and on this beings threats against humanity - and torture and murdering etc of such - for vain and arbitrary reasons - well - I would say with 100% conviction that such a god must be upposed with all of ones might. And i have been most scincere in presenting my beliefs - and my outrage over soem off the false claims that have been made her - founding fathers were Christian, my family was killed to satisfy some whim of some evil (obvious - provably so) god and that my regection of theism is somehow a religion - as if anyone who rejects the exsistance of Santa Clause is suddenly a follower of the anti-Santa Clause religion - come now - I do find these thinsg offensive. And i will not stop if the likes of you people continue such.

Sasun - I initianlly refrained form junping into this argument - as we have been here befoere - exactly one year ago. And I didnt jump in until I read some of the arrogant (and innacurate) claims of gevo concerning our founding fathers and what they believed it - and also all the typical - in yur face christianity is the superior belief blah blah baleh - well you say i am offensve - I think people telling me that they way I or others live my life and such is wrong - based on these beliefs - and that i will got to helletc etc - I find these claims highly offensive. I also find that someone who would say that there was some understandable reason why my family was killed and our people murdered so foul - that this wa part of some gods plan -- etc as most offensive of all!

LOL - now that is a laugh. All Ihave said is that I don't believe in your God - or any for that matter. And I have posted much that refutes both the need for such a belief and the fundementals of that belief (infalability of the Bible - attributes of God0...to whcih no one can give any reply but that I am being arrogant or hateful (where?) or telling me that my belief is a religion (when i have clearly refuted that it is not0 and that to (dis)believe as I do I must beleive in mutiple universes. Well (not) friends - I feel that I have utterly beaten all yoru (non) arguments ad you have nothign of substance to say and cannot refute me. So you cry that I am being mean - wah wah wah - well tough for you. And I have never - never - claimed to know any answers - thats just my point - I don't know anything! And neither do any of you!

Yes of course.

Yes of course.

Yes of course.