Dave

It is obvious that Turkey shall have a difficult 2007 when we combine this with the presidential elections.

US Jewish lobby warns Turkish MFA: Even we might not be able to block the Armenian genocide bill if you don’t move Saturday, January 13, 2007 EYÜP CAN I am not trying to draw up a new crisis scenario for this year. However, I received news that might have a �profound impact� on Turkey-U.S. relations at a dinner for top officials last night. A very important member of the Jewish lobby in the United States said very openly, �If Turkey doesn't do something, the Armenian genocide bill will pass in the U.S. Congress despite our best efforts to block it.� Indeed, this information which was �very sharply� worded had a cold-shower effect on all of us seated around the table including retired ambassadors and reputable businessmen. Everybody there knew what Nancy Pelosi had promised the Armenian diaspora regarding a genocide bill and that she had pressed the button to start actual work on the topic, but nobody really expected a representative of the Jewish lobby to declare that �even we might not be able to block it if continues like this.� The Armenian genocide bill appears on the U.S. agenda every year on April 24 but it has always been blocked by the president (regardless of whether he is a Democrat or a Republican) on one side and the Jewish lobby on the other side openly supporting Turkey. However, according to what our guest was saying, neither the Jewish lobby nor President George W. Bush's last-minute efforts will stop the bill. The current political environment in the United States has turned against Turkey to an unprecedented degree. The degree is so large that the American Armenian National Congress expressed in a statement issued last week that their chances for passing the bill are now the highest they have been in the last decade. But why is that? For one thing, newly elected Democratic Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi will be taking up the bill, which was last year abandoned by Republican House Speaker Dennis Hastert after President Bush interfered. This is why the genocide bill which made its way to the House of Representatives last year is almost sure to be sent to the Senate after being voted on in the House. Secondly, the Democrats have a majority in the Senate, unlike last year. Thirdly, the Armenian diaspora, which collected signatures from 32 senators and 175 congressmen in 2005 in a letter calling for Bush to recognize the genocide, has already guaranteed 50 senators will support the bill this year. Lastly, President Bush, who was able to block the bill from being adopted at the last minute last year doesn't seem to have the power or the room to maneuver to block the bill this year. For all these reasons, the U.S. Jewish lobby which has always managed to block the Armenian genocide bill in the past has warned the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) to �either do something or be ready to face the consequences.� The other day, I talked to a senior diplomat from the MFA to confirm what our guest said. He sufficed to say, �Unfortunately, all that you heard is true.� What can Turkey do to reverse the tide in the United States? There are three possible answers to this answer. A group of senior diplomats criticize Turkey's past policies regarding the allegation and assert that �there's nothing we can do after this hour.� Some in the Jewish Lobby believe that it is still not too late. If Turkey established diplomatic relations and opened the borders with Armenia, the tide could turn around. They have already suggested this as a way out to the Turkish MFA. A third group says, since an overwhelming majority of parliaments in the world have already recognized the genocide, the United States will inevitably have to join them in the end. Turkey should be producing pro-active policies rather than reactionary policies on this topic. Foreign Minister Abdullah Gül in a recent interview with the Sabah daily expressed that they perceived the Armenian question as the second biggest threat for Turkey after the situation in Iraq. �The Armenian question will be taken up in the United States again," Gül said. "We are trying to block that. This topic will never be off the table for Turkey. We should always be alert and prepared. If this bill is passed, it might lead to very complicated consequences. We have no way out but to prevent this from happening.� Obviously, Gül demonstrates that he has taken the warnings he received very seriously. Another official from the MFA told me: �Although the atmosphere in the United States seems to be against Turks, we can still get some of the Democrats and Republicans on our side by staying on top of the issue. It is not too late.� The same official said he didn't even want to imagine what it would be like if Turkish-U.S. relations were further crippled by the Armenian bill after the row over Iraq. U.S. diplomats express similar concerns. Diplomats of both countries are concerned that U.S. acceptance of the genocide won't be anything like that of France of Slovakia. Turkish-U.S. relations from military tenders to trade relations would be dealt a very heavy blow. The image of the United States in the public opinion, which is currently panting on the floor (with only 20 percent of the population having positive feelings toward the Unites States) would crash altogether. The wounds still healing after the crisis over Turkey's rejection to deploy U.S. troops on its bases would be hit even worse than they were by the problems with the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) and Iraq. This is why both Turkish and U.S. diplomats don't want to accept this as the end-scenario. However, the bill has already turned into a scare for the Jewish lobby in the United States. The only hope, for now, is Turkey's opening up its border with Armenia. Although the MFA seems to be favoring a more pro-active policy, this seems unlikely since 2007 is the year of general elections in Turkey. As you can see, the year 2007 is pregnant with a crisis that would leave even crises over the presidential elections and the general elections in the shadow, with the Jewish lobby already warning the Turkish MFA about the yet unborn child.

This now looks official, as in it's not in the mind of Stallone anymore and is being produced... Turkish organizations protest against film star Sylvester Stallone 1/10/2007 23:59:00 EasternStar News Agency Turkish lobby groups protest against the American film star Sylvester Stallone, who will take part in and produce a film based on Franz Werfel’s ”The 40 days at Musa Dagh”. The Turkish lobby group ”Association on struggle against Armenian Genocide acknowledgement” with its leader Egilmez emphasizes that: ”Films are often used in propaganda and Armenians use this opportunity for their propaganda. The Austrian-Jewish author Franz Werfel wrote this novel in 1933. It is full of lies, since the author got his information from nationalist and radical Armenians… We have already sent necessary documents about the mentioned days to the producer of the film. Our allies will urge and pursue the producer to not produce this film”. Despite the threats and accusations against Sylvester Stallone, he has emphasized that his intentions are to direct a film based on the heroic defence of Musa Dagh in 1915. The film is based on the book ”The 40 days at Musa Dagh”. The producers were surprised by the strong reactions from Turkish interests. They say that the film is based on a well documented true event. Above all it is a pity about the Turkish people, that it isn’t able to elect a modern government that can stop 85 years of denial of genocide. http://assyriatimes.com/engine/modules/new...hp?storyid=3267

Why doesn't this use the Soviet Orthography anyway? Is there a movement to change it back? http://www.armenianchurchlibrary.com/files...narmenianbible/

Johannes i agree but Սեվրի դաշնագիրը մեր լաւագոյն պատճառաբանութիւնը կրնայ սեպուիլ եթէ օր մը Արեւմտեան Հայաստան վերահաստատուելու առիթը ստեղծուի: Առաջ ես Հայկական դպրոց մը կ՛երթայի եւ բոլոր դասարաններուն մէջ այս դաշնագիրին քարտէսը պատին վրայ կախուած է: Hyefedayis, as Johannes said about our claims to Western Armenia, they'll have to fight to get it.

I never said that, and my question in my previous post didn't have any pejorative connotations.

I thought about creating a new topic but since there's already a discussion here... The part in red dots is the Armenia that the Armenian delegation at Sèvres initially wanted. What do you think? http://aypfm.leserveur.com/images/28Mai2001/CarteArmenie/Carte_Armenie2c.jpg (French) http://www.imprescriptible.fr/

It's fine... We need one for Javakhk and Western Armenia .

It was the Bloc's Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral who brought up the law year after year.

These "bunch of colours" have been a symbol of Armenian nationalism ever since the days of Cilicia: http://www.armenianheritage.com/images/hif11.gif From http://www.armenianheritage.com/

An "easy way out" for the West would be: - To support separatist movements in Iran, such as the Iranian Azeris who seem to be fooled by the Pan-Turkist propaganda of their northern neighbours. or - To support a nationalist revolution with the help of the Iranians in the diaspora (who oppose the current regime). I don't know if any of you think that this is logical, but I have a feeling that both of these will happen simultaneously, and as a result, Iran would turn to be another Iraq.

The Albanians weren't the ancestors of the Azeris, as they would want us to believe. They were culturally much closer to the Armenians (religiously and linguistically) than the Azeris who are Turks from Central Asia. The real Azerbaijan was and is located in Iran, south of Arax river, and existed much before the Turkic migration of the late 11th century. The Muslims of what is now "Azerbaijan" never referred themselves as Azeris until the early 20th century. They were separate tribes, collectively called Tatars by European travelers. It was in the interests of the Europeans to unify those who were potential trading partners (Baku oil). etc. Hope that cleared it up.

Even if all that the Azeris say about Khojali is true, it can't be considered a genocide according to the UN definition.

Good observation, Tro. It does look like she has the voice of a Hayastantsi woman. She looks like one too. Are you Hayastantsi yourself? Thanks for the pictures, Nvard. Speaking of Lebanese Armenians... There was an Armenian Christmas special on LBC earlier on. Did anyone catch it?

Yes that's the non-American way of spelling humor.

http://www.hairenik.com/HairenikTV/HA_TV_Clip46.htm

I'm sure that the one in Armenia is authentic; we're closer to the sources anyway. Speaking of youtube, did you notice the spam that is present when you search "Armenian"? http://youtube.com/results?search_query=Ar...p;search=Search

About this "moving to Istanbul" thing. It started when the Sultan Mehmed II who conquered Constantinople (1453) invited an Armenian archbishop to the City and encouraged him to start a Patriarchat. The Sultan recognized the Armenians' ingenuity and their ability to build, not to destroy. Shah Abbas also recognized that when he settled thousands of Armenians in Isfahan. So it wasn't really our choice. Most Armenians of Istanbul never lacked patriotism. For example, during the Ottoman Bank takeover, there was a simultaneous rebellion in the Armenian quarter of Amasia.

Don't forget about the Duduk (and countless other Armenian musical instruments) and the Khachkars. Nobody other than us Armenians really cares about our architectural marvels though. The most recent proof is the desecration that occurred in Nakhichevan in 2005... Even the Armenian government and the Catholicoi didn't do much to prevent it or to counter it. For example, Aram I, the so-called leader of the World Council of Churches, could have raised awareness... What about those in the diaspora? Why not?

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-8493010508114425938 What gravitates around the Earth? A ) Moon B ) Sun C ) Mars D ) Venus

Turkish prime minister warns sectarian tensions in Lebanon will affect region The Associated Press Published: January 3, 2007 BEIRUT, Lebanon: Turkey's prime minister warned that growing sectarian tensions in Lebanon will affect the entire Middle East if left unchecked and offered to mediate in the political crisis if asked by rival factions. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan arrived here on a one-day visit for talks with feuding Lebanese leaders on the country's deepening political crisis. Shortly after his arrival, Erdogan met with Lebanese premier Fuad Saniora whose Western-backed government is facing increasing pressure in the form of street protests led by Hezbollah and other opposition groups. "I told Saniora that sectarian differences will leave repercussions on the region," Erdogan told reporters. "I also told him that all parties in Lebanon and all states in the region must act to solve this problem," Erdogan said, stressing that a solution to the Lebanese crisis should be reached through dialogue. Erdogan's visit came as the growing political and sectarian tensions among Lebanese factions threaten to tear the country apart. It also came more than a week after Arab League chief Amr Moussa said that his efforts have failed to reach a solution to the crisis. Tensions between pro- and anti-Syrian groups erupted when six pro-Hezbollah Cabinet ministers resigned in November after Saniora rejected their demand for a new national unity government that would give Hezbollah and its allies a veto power on key Cabinet decisions. Erdogan met Saniora who has been living at his office complex in central Beirut amid a tight security cordon near the thousands of Hezbollah supporters and allies camping nearby. Erdogan, speaking in Turkish, said Turkey was not mediating in the Lebanese crisis but was ready to do so if asked to help by feuding parties. Saniora said because of its close ties with the Arab world, Turkey can play "an important role" in promoting a solution to the Lebanese crisis. "We stressed on stability in Lebanon and its impact on the region," he said. Before meeting with Lebanon's president and Parliament Speaker Nabih Berri, a Hezbollah ally, Erdogan flew by a Turkish military helicopter to southern Lebanon where he inspected Turkish troops serving with the U.N. peacekeeping force known as UNIFIL. He reviewed an honor guard, thanked troops for their service and had lunch with military officers. Some 260 Turkish troops, deployed near the southern port city of Tyre, are helping rebuild bridges and roads damaged in last summer's war between Hezbollah and Israel. Turkish officials said that the total number of Turkish personnel in Lebanon would ultimately reach 681, including sailors and engineers. Erdogan also said he will meet later Wednesday with legislator Mohammed Raad, head of Hezbollah's 11-member parliamentary bloc. While Erdogan was meeting Saniora, thousands of Armenians, raising Lebanese and Armenian flags, gathered in the streets north of Beirut shouting slogans against the Turkish premier's visit, witnesses said. All shops in the Armenian neighborhood of Bourj Hammoud north of Beirut closed for a couple of hours. "Turkey, Israel's strategic ally, cannot keep peace in Lebanon," read a placard by the protesters. The protesters dispersed peacefully but the demonstration caused a traffic jam on Beirut's northern highway. Ahead of Erdogan's arrival, about 100 Armenian citizens, waving Lebanese flags, also gathered outside the Beirut airport to protest his visit. In October, thousands from Lebanon's 80,000-100,000 strong Armenian community rallied in downtown Beirut to protest Turkish participation in the U.N. peacekeeping force because they blame Turkey's Ottoman rulers for the mass killing of Armenians in the early 20th century. Turkey, a U.S. ally and NATO's only predominantly Muslim member, has close ties to both Israel and Arab states. http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/01/03/...anon_Turkey.php http://www.aztagdaily.com/Today/Pic/Tsouytz-otagayan.gif http://www.aztagdaily.com/Today/Pic/tsouytz010307.gif

The Ottoman architect, Mimar Sinan, was of Armenian origin. He is often considered the best Islamic architect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimar_Sinan He build mosques such as the Suleymaniye: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/76/Suleiman_Mosque.jpg The Balyan family was also notable in its mosques, churches, and palaces: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balyan_family There are many, many other contributions that Armenians did and are still doing.

Nowadays, Azeris seemingly hate us more than the Turks do. In an eventual war, we don't really have to kill women and children. That is only the Turkish code of conduct.

It depends what your "region" is. If you're talking about the Caucasus, then Armenia surely has the strongest military compared to Georgia and Azerbaijan.

Borat's Kazakhstan sounds friendlier than Azerbaijan.