Iran01

Kakachik, thank you. it was long time ago to see any activity in this thread. how goes the cardinal numbers in Armenian? btw , find a converter , transliterator: http://www.genocide.ru/translit/convert.html

interesting

What does "marz" mean in Armenian? "province"! MARZ GEGHARKUNIK MARZ TAVUSH MARZ LORI MARZ SHIRAK MARZ ARARAT MARZ ........ In persian it means "border".

I guess it is part of the explaniation! Actually in Persian if you know someone very well , you add "-i" or "-u" at his/her name. It is mainly used by grown up youth. By other words you try make a diminutive form of your grown up friend and take him back to childhood : Arpai / Arpau Shauntu Edwardi ... Anyway, the -ak, -ik has several forms in other dialects/languages: The suffix -ag is very common in Ossetic language, it roughly means possesion of some quality, like profession or nationality: barag, axuyrag, somixag, amerikag, fiduag etc http://www.iranianlanguages.com/forum/view...ighlight=suffix The -ik even appears as -ij in northern Iran!

dear Shaunt Thank you for those informative posts.

Are you trying to insult Persian! yeah sure, lake Urmia IS Armenian!

The suffix -IZE/IZ is related to the suffix -CE/-ICE, meaning small (or a small version of something). The Pahlavi language included only the -cak/-icak/-ic forms which in Persian have evolved into 2 forms -ize/-iz/-iže as well as -ce/-ice. http://www.iranianlanguages.com/forum/view...highlight=#3135 In Persian we have a diminutive suffix which is reminiscent of the Latin suffix -ule (-ulus (masc.), -ula (fem.), -ulum (neut.)). Examples: http://www.iranianlanguages.com/forum/view...ighlight=suffix

About -uk but not ! The Persian excess suffix -u The suffix -u in Persian forms adjectives/nouns often with a sense of excess, more especially in dialects. Examples: kermu axmu šekamu qahru In the western Iran Lori : loccu : fat lips pettu : big nose mofu laqaru : very small lemmu In Eastern Iran Qâeni: In Qâeni this suffix is -uk: geryuk : cry to much and often xanduk sarmâuk šarmuk lerruk doruquk : lie to much http://www.iranianlanguages.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=305

Yes it is used as diminutive suffix but NOT as widely as in Armenian. And when it is used it has "double face"! For ex it is okey to say: Pesarak, little boy doxtarak, little girl mâmânik ( my little Mother) , not so common as mâmâni. Same time if you use it for man and woman it is insult: mardak zanak But you can say: Teflak , little child ( used sympathetically for both children and adults)

For "ak" you can read last post in page 1 and the rest in pages 2: http://www.iranianlanguages.com/forum/view...=mardak&start=0

Dear Arpa If you ask about today! Those suffixes are Armenian. If you think about 1700 years ago! They are Perso-Armenian. If you want to go furthur! They are of IE origin. Anyway here comes an informative post from other forum. The Persian suffix -ik The suffix -ik or -ig, which was widely used in Middle Persian for creating adjectives, has changed into -i in Modern Persian. However it is extant in a small number of words: târik, nazdik, zandik (Arabicized zandiq), bârik. Note also that all -i's in Modern Persian do not come from –ik; many derive from -ih, which created nouns. But I will not expand on this subject here. Examples for -ik from Pahlavi: cihrik, cihrig = natural gohrik, gohrig = natural, essential gumânik, gumânig = doubtful kunišnik = doable; related to action mânik, mânig = household belonging, household member manik = mine, related to me narik = related to male xvartik, xwarišnig = edible gâsânik, gâhânig = related to the Gathas dâtik, dâdig = legal, concerned with the law In recent years -ik has been reactivated in technical terminology for reproducing the European -ics, -ique (from Latin icus, Greek -ikos), and this has resulted in many new words already published in books and articles. Examples: âvâyik = phonetics farmânik = cybernetics zabânik = linguistics neviseyik = graphemics, from nevise (graphem) partâbik = ballistics niruyik = dynamics characteristic = sereštnešânik antithetic = pâdnahâdik It has even been used in combination with Arabic words: sowtik = accoustics zibâhesik = aesthetics semantics = ma’nâyik There are several reasons for the revival of -ik, mainly: a) In the European scientific terminology, branches of science are mainly denoted with two suffixes: 1) -logy (French –logie): biology, geology, mineralogy, etc. 2) -ics (French -ique): biotics, dynamics, kinematics, mathematics, etc. Without -ik, both suffixes were translated into -šenâsi: zaminšenâsi, giyâhšenâsi, kânišenâsi, partâbšeni, etc. The suffix -ik allows new possibilities in word making, for example: biology = zistšenâsi biotics = zistik ballistics = partâbik. Moreover, it produces helpful semantic nuances. Let us look into the case of this last example. If we choose partâbšnâsi, instead of partâbik, we run into some problems. How should we translate ballistic missile? Mušak-e partâbšnâsi, mušak-e partâbšenâxti, mušak-e partâbšnâsâne? But no matter which one we choose among the above-mentioned possibilities, we stay with a problem. The reason is that ballistic here does not focus on the science (-šenâsi) but on the nature of throwing. The use of -ik allows us to avoid this problem: mušak-e partâbik. c) As mentioned above, phonetically speaking it is not straightforward in Persian to make adjectives from words ending in -i, , for example with -šnâsi. The use of -ik answers this question and produces adjectives which themselves do not end in -i, for ex.: astronomical unit = yekâ-ye axtaršnâsik, instead of axtaršnâxti. http://www.iranianlanguages.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=214

Is Nurizade a Gilak ?!!! btw I told you in other thread: next time, Go all the way to Caspain sea. Gilak and Talish are sister tribes .

No Arpa jan, He looks like Nurizade! The man on picture must be the translator, his name is Dr Azad Matiyan ( sorry for mis-spelling). btw, thanks for translation of Nurizades poem! Sounds soft and sweet.

Are you alright ? Yes Armenia is a Christian country and actually the first Christian nation on earth and ofcourse Iran is the only Shia muslim country in the world. You speak Armenian, by its own bransch in Indo-European languages and we speak Persian. But the fact is most of your words in Armenian is based on Pahlavi a dead old persian language. It means there are still small traces of old Pahlavi in Iran too. Such thing as " Kocharyan to Kochari, Muradyan to Muradooni " sounds as cheap panArmenian propaganda! It is not like Armenians are from Mars and Iranians are from Jupiter! Many Iranians have "ian" in last name. Sure 99% Armenians have "ian" in last name. But it is not strange to Iranian. Many Armenians, not only them, change thier names to easily adapt into new country. Some years ago islamic republic offered small bank loan to Iranians who choosed Arabic names for thier children. Why? Because new generation in Iran prefer Iranian names. It is better for you to wake up and stop seeing things in black and white. Iran is on the top list to publish and translate Armenians litterature into Persian and other languages outside Armenia. Do you still think Iranian government is snake-like ? It has nothing to do with government! Ofcourse they have an ideology and try to force Arabic names on Iranian. But at the end it is people and the exchange of culture which decide which direction people take. You try the make a BIG case of Armenian "minority" in Iran to make Iranian Azari as the "BAD BAD BAD TURKS".

Artsakh It seems to me you are infected of same kind of illness as many other Iranians!!!: Deny and let feeling take over your judgement! Millions and millions Iranians run on streets of Tehran and said: death to Shah, Long live Khomeini No to west, east, only islamic republic Yes to Islam Today same people disform facts and DENY: No it was not me! It was other Iranians. The so called revolution was stolen by Islamists. Dear Artsakh! When Pahlavi took over power in Iran, the Qajar dynasty ( A turkic tribe) where ruling Iran. The Qajar Shah used to have 100 women in thier Harems, sale Caspian sea to Russia, the south oil to England and for the few rubles, pounds have fun in Petersburg, Paris, London. The same Qajar children are now living in New York, London and calling themselves as : Persian princes. Why? Just to sale thier arts to better price on auction. Because "Persian" sounds so sexy and exotice. But what they left after: poverty, chaos, war, illnesses... When the first Pahlavi Shah took over Iran, there was about 2000 Iranians who could read and write. When Pahlavi left Iran 1979, only 200-300 000 Iranian studens were studying at European / American universities. Almost 25 years after the so called revolution, poeple still talked about 100 000 of death 1979. The fact is 2-3 years ago IR of Iran published a list: The number of death 1979 was around 3000 people. During 1 year after revolution , around 1000-2000 Iranian officers, generals were executed by Islamist and communists. Yes , maybe shah was a dictator, but a good one, considering : 1400 years of Islamic culture, Turkic and non-Turkic rullers in Iran, The Moguls attack, Russians and English influences in Iran. The point is: During same Turkic Qajar, panIranism start to grow in Iran. And DO NOT get surprised that the majority of those new nationalists where from Iranian Azarbaijan. When almost all Iranians gave up agianst Qajar! people such as Sattar Khan in Tabriz refused. He and a few men didnt give up. He became a legened. And that was the start to take down the Turkic Qajar. Yes, when the Persian gave up to Turkic Qajar, The Azari didnt. I guess I understand your feeling againts Israel. But the reality is when: France, Germany, England, USA where saling gun to Saddam, and the Arabs where supporting Saddam with money, it was israel whom bombed Iraqs nuke and sold some gun to Iran. During the war Iran was completely alone. When Saddam used chemical weapons on Iranian soldiers and Kurds, the west was blind. But now Bush and Co are talking about chemical weapons in Iraq! The politic is more complicated than that. For a few years ago Iran was in a VERY bad condition: Sunni fanatical Taliban in Afqanistan. Saddam by his PanArabism in Iraq and the stupid falang of proIslamist Mullah inside Iran. But Thanks to USA the Taliban are gone. Saddam is gone. Actually you dont hear so much of Shia uprising in Iraq, they are quite and gentle for the moment. Somehow Mullah in Iran know what is best for them. The reason is simple: The real threat will not come from outside by USA or Israel. It is from inside. 70% of Irans population are youth and borned after revolution or do not remember it. There is a small but strong Anti-islamic movement outside Iran AMONG some exile Iranians. There is a solid background inside Iran to transfer the movement inside Iran. Here is the real danger: Shiaism is a solid and important part of Irans culture. Excatly as Armenian church is for Armenian identity. Playing or better said enlighting the youth about Islam means : You need to substitute the vaccum after Shiaism. And it is not a easy case. IR of Iran has damaged the national identity so it is very easy for the youth to get attracted to racism and fasicm. That is excatly a few panturks try to do: create hate inside Iran. And Iranian mullah like it: They can continue to rule Iran. Unfortunaly there are people among Armenians who do the same. Ofcourse I understand Armenians perspective. If 1915 the genocide did not happen then today you would have probably 7-8 million Armenians inside Turkey. So it is natural to hate the Turks. But the thing is if Iran fall in ethnic war, then many countries around Iran will get bad times. Especially Armenia. Yes, Iranian mullah are animals but they are smart. President Khatami once said: We try to have good and balanced relation to our neigbors, BUT we have a special attitude towards Armenia. He knows what he is talking about. He knows that Armenia can be the trigger. Do not forget that the man who formed Irans new identity, shiaism. The man who is father of Iranians mullah of today. The man who raped, ate Sunni male Turks. The man who burned Armenian towns. The man who forced hundreds of Armenians to his capital, Esfahan. Was an Iranian Azari: Shah Ismail. I am not surprised that you support Irans mullahs The point is ideology such as panturkism is based on hatred. That is the source for them to grow. Unfortunaly panArmenianism falls into same mistake. It is explainable, considering the relation and what happened 100 years ago and before that between Turks and Armenians. I bet all my money, if Yerevan started a cultural war on Baku, enlighting the ethnic tribes who they are and thier rights: rep of Azerbayjan would be a short page in history book.

Dear Dave They are Iranians. They dont need to be integrated into Iranian society. On Panturks sites , people get misinformed that Iranian Azari are 40-60% of Irans population..etc ( They are around 20-25%. And it dosent realy matter if they are 20 or 99% of population) The thing is they are IRANIANS and there are a lot of intermarriage between Azari and other Iranian tribes: Kurds, Persian, Gilak, Mazani... They do excatly the same as other Iranian tribes. The difference is in the language. The kind of Turkic they speak is "thier mother language today": It is a fact. I dont know how explain it! Let me give you an example maybe you get a better understanding: A lot of Iranian ( bothe Armenians and Persians) travel to Armenia to study. But a few one do the same to Baku !!! If there was so strong connection between fictive rep of Azerbayjan and Iranian Azarbaijan ! Then people should in masses travel into Baku! But the fact is they dont. The same goes with Turkey! If it was because of the language so many Iranian Azari would study and work in Turkey. But they dont. Here is two good links about the language of Azarbaijan and the name of Azarbaijan. Unfortunaly both are in Persian. http://raasti.com/paazar01.htm http://home.att.net/~tabriz/turkic1.htm The last one is written by Ahmad Kasravi, who was from Tabriz and spoke Turkic. It is a very good reading about when and how Turkic find its way into Azarbaijan. I guess someone should translate it into Armenian ( only 13 pages). It is very informative.

Yes it is enjoyable. Indeed a master work.

Yeah, I guess you need to change your company Your neigbors will have bad influnce on you, that is for sure. I didnt say they are Persianized! If only 10% of Iranians were "Persianized" as old good time when the biggest sin, crime was a lie for them! Then Iran would never face 1979 revolution and the current situation today. For you information , during II war with the help of Russians communists a panTurk with name Pishevari tried to separate Iranian Azarbaijan. He had 2 years. But when the Russians were gone it took central government in Tehran 2 days to clean up in Iranian Azarbaijan. It tell you a lot how must support panTurks had and have among Iranian Azari: 0%. Close to same period, Dashnak had a bad attitude in Iranian Azarbaijan and started religious war. Many in Urumia ( which had/have a mixed population of Kurd, Azari, Assyrian, Armenian ) got killed. Majority of PanIranist and nationlaist in Iran are from Iranian Azarbaijan: Akhundzadeh, Taghizadeh, Iranshahr, Afshar, Kasravi, Azad Maraghei, Arani, Bahar .... Are just a few names during last 100 years whom had great influence on modern understanding of Iranism. Actually I dont understand your logic! if you think Iranians should not be naive, stupid and clean up since "they are not persianized". So who is next after "Azari Turks"? Armenians!!!

Thank you Nairi I am not sure, but yes I guess it must be it. I was reading an article about it in Persian, and a short translation of some lines. It sounds, from the short translation to judge, as a great book. http://www.sharghnewspaper.com/830428/book.htm It says that the writter is Grigor Narekatsi and the book name is translated as: Foghân Nâme ( regret letter !) in Persian but the book is known as Narek among Armenians.

Hi I wonder if Narek is available in English online?

oh sorry! I forgot to mention Talishi Carpet are beatifull too http://www.jozan.net/distrikter/lenkoran.asp Go to the caspian sea: oil, Caviar, holliday on beach, carpet , new neighbours ( Russia, Kasakistan, Turkmenistan)

cleanse the so-called Azerbaijan! Actually Turkeys president was in Tehran for 2 years ago. He wanted to visit Tabriz on his way back to Ankara. He thought millions of Turks would gathered on the street of Tabriz and ask him for Turkeys support ... bla bla a "fifth column" But the reality was : not a single soul was there to welcome him So they took him as a turist to some museum in Tabriz and then said goodby to him. Yeah sure "stupid Islam" What about you convert back to old good Zarathushtrianism! Or import 100 000 Iranian mullah and re-educate them like Armenian priest and send them back to Qom to promoting Christianity: Armenian version Sounds cool: Yerevan as religious center , Tehran as economic center To be serious: All the way between Artsax and Caspian sea is populated by Talishi. They are not Turkish. Think about it! It would be a easy case for Armenia to controll that area if Armenia is gentle to these people. Which I believe you can.

Next time you are in war with rep of Azerbayjan: GO ALL THE WAY TO CASPIAN SEA We will get off those panturks in Baku! You will get some sea coast to have fun, some caviar, boats ...

Yes dear Arpa in New Persian we still use nâf for navel.

What I know, there is not such a word as "bek" in Turkish. (They use combined word such as "Atabek". Ata is definitly Turkish, meaning father. A lot of the title used in the army, for nobles etc during Othomans period were from Persian, and a few were Turkish one) They have the word "bey" meaning lord. In old persian there is a word "bag/bak" meaning God.