TigrannesIII

sorry about the Artur flashbacks, but the guy had alot of good points, he just didnt know how to go about it. then again, i'm not too good at communication either. oh well. two PC's, does that still make one computer? ah you're the computer guy....

THOTH, You're on something. I'm through with you.

1)RE the Badger state, check pm 2)It's only become important as of late, marriage should be built upon compatability and creating the ideal situation to make life easier for the children. This is what I mean, sex destroys family values. If a woman really loves a guy, she'll get beyond his short list, and if a guy really loves a woman he will get past her inability to provide an adequate envelope. Go see what your ancestors worried about- having a good wife or having the perfect envelope. 3)If you have a younger sister and arent trying to keep people away from her, I question where your priorities lie.

and it's 2 computers (not just 1) and some phone lines

you're not the oldest brother of your family, you couldn't possibly relate

quote:Originally posted by nairi:Perhaps I acquired my attitude growing up in country where sex is pretty much at the forefront of everything; where prostitutes are respected, have legal jobs and pay tax; where homosexuals are free to get married and adopt children; and where single (teenage) mothers are not ex-communicated or stoned to death. This is a country where everyone is free to choose for themselves, from sexual promiscuity, using drugs and having abortions, to virginity, staying clean and becoming a monk. Nobody stops no one. New people are given new laws; old laws are easily and smoothly replaced. I'm not saying Armenia should look like this, but I sure would be less embarrassed to introduce my odar friends to Armenians if there was a bit more tolerance and respect for difference among us. Tigrannes, though I understand where you're coming from, my main worry is: what will you do to your daughter if you find out she's been having pre-marital sex? Nairi, I guess I can't really blame you, since you've grown up in probably the worst society in the history of the modern world. It's just that if you're going to accept the host culture, why still call yourself Armenian? God, please don't even ask me what I'd do. As it is I don't permit my sisters to date. I've got people back home keeping an eye out for me, and the word is out that anyone who puts a finger on one of my sisters gets killed. I still remember when we were little kids (she was 6 years old, I was 8) and I beat some little boy for talking to her )))) As for your odar friends, maybe they should learn to be tolerant of our ways? My philosophy is let all cultures do their own things, my only worry is making sure that Armenians stick to our ways.

you see, Azat jan, that's what I'm trying to get at. If a woman won't marry a man she loves because he has a shorter list, then the woman is worthless. If a man won't marry a woman or cheats on his wife because she's not on fire in the sack, then he, too, is worthless. People shouldn't marry just because of sex- it shouldn't even be a factor. That's why I'm so revolted by this society- it's driven waaaay too much by sex. The same goes for the rest of Western Europe and anywhere else where pre-marrital sex is accepted- girls eventually turn to $lut$, and the fabric of the society goes down. Go look at Armenia where girls are still righteous- how much drug abuse is there? Do you all see where I'm going? Look at Iran where women are righteous- how much drug abuse is there? Now look at the USA where women aren't- how much drug abuse is there? How much child molestation is there? How much patricide, homicide? Alot. You see, when the women's righteousness goes, there goes the society.

another important reason why Armenian women should remain pure before marriage (this is a point I think I have alluded to) is because women are the custodians of the culture. If they stray, what effect will that have on the coming generation? It is the job of the woman to raise the kids right- as much as someone like me may be proud to be Armenian and do everything to raise his child to have the same ideals, in the end I am greatly flawed- and in the end, most men are @$$ho1e$ and that's why we need strong women.

quote:Originally posted by nairi: quote:Originally posted by TigrannesIII:Perhaps I would forgive her if she were to lie (I would eventually forgive her as my religion commands me to), and I would certainly not kill her. Does this mean you'd potentially marry me?To be honest, no, because I couldn't entrust you to raise a daughter should I have one. Christianity was also once considered a cult, that doesn't change the fact that it's remain unchanged for us for 1701 years. You see where I'm going? Just because things may have once been new and now they're old doesn't mean that things should change now. If we're going to start acting like Westerners we might as well stop being Armenian. I've already had to suffer because of a not so serious taboo in Armenian culture, but because of my respect and love for the culture I dare not push the envelope.

quote:Originally posted by nairi: quote:Originally posted by TigrannesIII:Perhaps I would forgive her if she were to lie (I would eventually forgive her as my religion commands me to), and I would certainly not kill her. Does this mean you'd potentially marry me?are you proposing?

quote:Originally posted by Twilight Bark:I am no expert, so I'll try not to exceed my bounds. And my apologies to those who know more, and who know better. Of those, there are doubtless many. I agree with the theory that the mutual intelligibility depends strongly on one's command of any flavor of Armenian. Eastern Armenian speakers usually have no trouble understanding Western Armenian speakers, since they have grown up immersed in the language, exposed to it in all possible contexts, 24 hours a day. The difficulty is experienced mostly by Western Armenian speakers with a limited competence even in their own flavor of Armenian. I agree that the differentiation of sounds, competently stated by Arpa as usual, is a feature of Eastern Armenian that Western Armenian speakers should be envious of. I also agree that the ortography must be unified, and that much of Soviet-induced changes were unnecessary. On having many words for the same concepts, I say "the more the merrier". Instead of expunging the language of what we personally might think are "weird" words, structures, or grammatical rules, I say let's start merging the two flavors. Over time, "redundant" words and grammatical usages can take on subtly different meanings, enriching the language. Witness the remarkable expressive power of the hopelessly messy English language. I doubt that a Shakespeare would be produced with a tidy, economical language. Twilight Bark agreed. my only problem with the Eastern dialect from Armenia and Russia (i.e. Armenians in Moscow, not Yerevan) is the 'reformed' usage Armenian alphabet. For example, the word hayeren should be written ho-ayp-hi-yech-re-eh-nu, where as my Hayasdantsi friends would omit the 'eh' and write two 'yech'-es. Another example is a word like 'yerazhshdoutiun'- the direct tranliteration from Eastern Armenian would be 'yerazhshdoutyoun'. A final example would be the name 'Hagop/Hakob'- the first letter historically is the 'hi' which makes an 'h' sound when it's at the beginning of a word. The Eastern Armenian only utilizes the 'ho' (h) whenver there is an 'h' sound. I read in an article by a professor in Armenia that Sourp Mesrob is most likely rolling over in his grave if he saw the way his alphabet was being used today. Take this all with a grain of salt, I dont even speak Armenian. Hayeren chem khosir gam yes chem khosoum hayeren. Yalla, tsdesoutiun; davai, hajogh.

Sip jan, I gotta goatee now, I look like your twin now pity me. Anyways, it has generally been my experience that girls who aren't looking for trouble dont get into any trouble. See where I'm going? Bottom line for me- a girl who is not a virgin does not represent what is in line with my values and there would be immediate conflict there. I will not lay a finger on the woman I marry until I marry her, and even then not until she permits it.

It's very important and essential. I don't think I could trust any woman who had prior relationships to raise my children, especially if I were to have a daughter. How many girls that are virgins before marriage go onto (or have ever done) things like drugs? None. Any Armenian girl who has had sexual relations with an odar prior to marriage is more or less worthless and should more or less be ostracized from the community. As for the family I know my (non-Armenian by birth) mother would never allow me to marry a girl who has been 'de-flowered'. Sorry if my "old-world" thinking doesn't go over well, but my Hayasdantsi friends all agree with me on every issue that I've ever argued on this board in the social sphere. And Hagarag, it's not Islamic thinking- it's Christian thinking. But then again your interpretation and manipulation of the Bible is so deformed and disgusting that anything you say is more or less nonsense anyways.

this aint hockey country, it's all football out here

i started a hockey league on yahoo (free), with a live draft October 6th at 8:30 CDT. give me your e-mails if you want in.

man, even my TE is throwing touchdowns.... i can't be stopped!!!! )))) i checked the match-ups breakdown, the only time either of you two outscored me was coincidentally enough the weeks we played against each other. dammit.

quote:Originally posted by THOTH: And I can't help it that Tigrannes lives in a poor neighborhood where people can't afford deoderant or such - he really ought to get out into the world more. I can introduce him to many blackpeople - who if they were of similar self-agrandized aloofnees as Tigrannes would turn their noses up at him for his lowely social status, dress, poor sense of style, lack of proper education and any number of other factors where he would fall beneath them on certain social or otherwise pecking orders - etc (though I find all of this silly and meaningless). People are different from each other - based on where they live/grew up, ethnic influences (food, dress, predominant culture etc), personal preferences, genetics - etc etc - isn't it wonderful? Is the correct ideal that we are all the same - I certainly don't think so....[/QB] even though i really have nothing to prove to the likes of you, i'm sick of you lowering yourself to personal attacks on anybody who doesn't get in line with your liberal ideologies. For all it matters, my family is middle class, we live in a nice house, I dress nice, and I am one year ahead of where I should be at a top 25 university (not to mention one of the most liberal schools). I am sick how you and liberals in general go on about how everyone has the right to be themselves, except me. I cant think the way I want to, even though your ideology at its heart states I can do whatever I want. So, you villify me, but really we both want the same thing- people to think like us. Only you are a hypocrite, which makes you worse.

And I can't help it that Tigrannes lives in a poor neighborhood where people can't afford deoderant or such - he really ought to get out into the world more. HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA shad khentalik es!!!!!!!!!!!

Say what now? Of course that makes you a racist smilies/lol2.gif That's just like someone saying I have smoked a joint every day for the past 20 years and I am not addicted![/QB] --like I said, I don't believe in the MTV liberalism. If I was racist my two favorite professors wouldn't be a Russian Jew and an Islamic Tatar, right? did you figure out who won yet?

Originally posted by THOTH: Are you claiming that being racist is a fundemental factor in being (an) Armenian? Well I disagree. -When did I say that? In fact I disagree quite a bit concerning what you consider to be requirements for being Armenian. (In fact I find your views on this to be rather twisted). And I certainly do not believe you have the monopoloy on such. ---Nope, I don't have a monopoly. And for the record, I'm not a racist. Just because I look down on inter-ethnic relationships does not make me a racist. If I hated someone just because of their bloodline or just because of the color of their skin, then yes- I would be racist. But just because I wont allow my sisters to date a black guy doesn't make me a racist. The MTV definition of racism doesn't fit in my world. Hell, I even got along with a few turks!!! Oh - and most sorry about your mom - I'm sure she is a wonderful (non-Armenian) lady - the SOB comment is directed at racists in general...and not all get their distasteful attitudes from their mothers...and considering that she is not Armenian (and you are implyig that racisim is an Armenian trait) - I wouldn't presume that your rather primative attutudes originate from her.. ---Apology accepted, but next time anything is said about my mother I will react to the fullest possible extent of my abilities. Nobody has ever and will ever be allowed to say one negative thing about her outside of my immediate family. My mother was not born Armenian, but she is now more Armenian than many people who were born Armenian. She cooks Armenian, is confirmed in the Armenian church, and has an Armenian surname. It is possible in rare situations like hers to become Armenian. At least my mother was smart enough to marry an Armenian. In fact she has probably re-inforced my ethnic identity more than my father. So, like I have told you before, that is a moot point. I also don't believe in that 'half-Armenian' crap- either you're Armenian or your not (unless of course you choose to have that other side). So plese stop trying to make a moot point.

quote:Originally posted by THOTH:Funny Tigrannes - you racist SOB - it seems I recently heard some similar things said about Armenians by (nasty close minded) WASPy types. Consider: Rascist WASP: most Armenian guys i know: 1)have something wrong with their face and smell bad -fine, let them have their opinions. I never thought I looked too good myself. If an Armenian smells bad, it's probably one of those rabiz types using waaaay too much cologne. 2)cheerful? most are grumpy and ready to start soemthing with you -i'm not too cheerful. I'm generally grumpy (at least appear that way) 3)open-minded? All their friends are Armenians! We're clannish. Good for us. I never said you had to be open-minded, I never even said it was good to be open-minded. I'm very close-minded and proud of it. I prefer to hang out with Armenians, and I feel most Armenians prefer to hang out with Armenians. I'm just saying blacks are not open-minded. ...admittedly most of my good friends are white, but I have Asian, Hispanic, White, Russian, Arabic, and even black friends...well sort of, I say Hi to them if they catch my eye when I'm trying to look away - and I would never think of inviting them over the house... 4)Create a warm atmosphere? Maybe from drinking Raki )) But a warm atmosphere??? They treat women like $h!t!!!! I hold the door, never raise my voice, never reduce myself to something like name-calling. And how does drinking raki create a warm atmosphere? 5)Well built- well, the athletic ones generally are - like boxers, wrestlers and soccer players, but the rest of them are like...nerdy chess players & stuff the blacks that play sports may be built. the blacks that don't generally gang-bang and pawn off drugs. so, our unathletic types are intellectuals. good for us. 6)Good at dancing- are you kidding - only those really gay looking line & circle dances...did you know that the guys hold hands? might be gay looking to an american (your) perspective. but it just shows how secure we are in our sexuality- very non-gay. and it's generally either locking fingertips or touching shoulders... of course you wouldn't know that, because you're not armenian. etc You reap what you sow...[/QB] -i never said that Armenians didn't have some negative stereotypes. i'm just saying one post glorifies the sevs waaay beyond what they deserve.

quote:Originally posted by THOTH:[QB]Funny Tigrannes - you racist SOB - /[QB] call me what you will, but dont call my mother names. it's funny how you advocate being Armenian by not being Armenian.

quote:Originally posted by Outdoorgirl:it's just that blacks are pretty unique by nature and they know how to be attractive, though it's not obligatory that all the females like them. They are very cheerful, open minded and able to create a warm atmosphere around them, they're well built up, flexy and are really good at dancing. most black guys i know:1)have something wrong with their face and smell bad 2)cheerful? most are grumpy and ready to start soemthing with you (but only if they got their crew with them. the other night some black guy bumped into me and started talkin $h!t and getting in my face. since i didn't back down and yelled right back, he ran away) 3)open-minded? All their friends are blacks! I'm considered very close-minded by todays standards, and most of my good friends are Armenians, but I have Asian, Hispanic, White, Russian, Arabic, and even black friends. 4)Create a warm atmosphere? Maybe from lighting their joints up. )) But a warm atmosphere??? They treat women like $h!t!!!! 5)Well built- well, the athletic ones generally are, but so was I when I was athletic. Now Sip and Azat are my heroes. 6)Good at dancing- don't know, dont care, i dont like the whole clubbing thing anyways. Rikardo

Before I read ahead and (attempt) answer other points, it seems as though I was misunderstood. I didn't mean that the ARF was responsible for the modern Armenian republic's independence, I meant that the little piece of land we have now would not be there if not for the ARF-organized defense batallions. Also, the ARF (mostly out of Iran I believe) helped initiate the defense of Artsax- the leader of the party (can't remember his name- I should though) moved his family to Yerevan, grabbed a gun, and jumped on the front lines. Members of the ARF in Lebanon and Syria were also in the front lines- the AYF leader of Lebanon was killed on the front in 1991 I believe.

MJ, Is the guy whose last name you forgot maybe Shahan Natali?