THOTH Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 (edited) His followers pursue inner peace through a regimen of meditation, a strict vegetarian diet, selfless service and ultra-endurance activities like extreme weight lifting, distance running and swimming. Mr. Chinmoy gives his followers Bengali names and often refers to them as boys and girls. He recommends that his followers abstain from sex, marriage, alcohol, tobacco and other worldly interferences. Er - so the latter (sex, marriage etc) are "wordly interferrences" (hey Domino you ought to oppose this guy with all your might - no sex or marriage - what if all followed Chinmoy - the human race would be doomed for sure eh?)...but the former - weight lifting, distance running and swimming are OK? I don't get it - the latter seem pretty worldly to me....dunnoh Edit: this was not the first post. This thread was split from another thread. Edited July 15, 2004 by Sasun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 (edited) Er - so the latter (sex, marriage etc) are "wordly interferrences" (hey Domino you ought to oppose this guy with all your might - no sex or marriage - what if all followed Chinmoy - the human race would be doomed for sure eh?)...but the former - weight lifting, distance running and swimming are OK? I don't get it - the latter seem pretty worldly to me....dunnoh I agree with you here. Sasun, you know my stance regarding Chinmoy. I have to admit that some of his stories have retarded logics, like a little kid trying to be wise with stories that are supposed to make sense. Sasun, compare Confisius with your Chinmoy, it is like comparing a Porsh with a matchbox, or a Zeiss microscope with a cheap chinese made crap. I still wonder why you read this guy, you make more sense and are more intelligent than him. Some of the things he write, only someone being druged could write them. Edited July 8, 2004 by Fadix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 Domino, you are simply clueless what you are talking about... and very ignorant in general on matters concerning religion and spirituality. I suggest you not talk about things that you don't understand, or at least have the humility to ask about things that you apparently don't get rather than trying to belittle someone who does not in a million years deserve to be belittled. I will be friendly and cynical with you in another thread, but I am serious here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Domino, you are simply clueless what you are talking about... and very ignorant in general on matters concerning religion and spirituality. I suggest you not talk about things that you don't understand, or at least have the humility to ask about things that you apparently don't get rather than trying to belittle someone who does not in a million years deserve to be belittled. I will be friendly and cynical with you in another thread, but I am serious here. Oh come on Sasun. I really have difficulty understanding why you like so much that man. Anyone can make sense out of worthless sentences, I do not say that this man does not make sense, but what he writes is not exeptional. You are making him like he was a god incarnate. Oh and, you already knew my views regarding him, you are answering me like if I surprised you. I might not know so much about religion as you put it, but here spirituality does not correlate with religion. I know about spirituality more than you think I know about. I am just being honest here, this man does not worth all the attention you have for him, he's saying nothing new, his wisedom is no way above average, and his writtings smell arrogance. What is this thing about having disciples? Who does he think he is? Am I the only here not considering this man so extraordinary? I mean, just reading few pages from new age books in a bookstore one would find equivalent writtings. So he paints, so as Armat and others here... so he can talk about god, so as any other people here. Give me just one valid reason why I should take this man seriously Sasun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Well said Domino. I think most folks can benefit from a little reflection now and again - and from this aspect I don't see Chimoy as a bad thing - I could see where its possible to glean something useful from this guy - but I agree - he is a bit overblown. (and certainly inconsistent - as shown above)...likewise these Eastern trancedental philosophys can only get you so far - and to take them further doesn't necessarily bring "enlightenment" - at least no more then a good heroin habit will...bottom line they have it wrong IMO - it is the material - the flesh and blood - and the social intercourse that are of paramount importance - not being irresponsible and wandering off and just being worried about your own trip... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Well said Domino. I think most folks can benefit from a little reflection now and again - and from this aspect I don't see Chimoy as a bad thing - I could see where its possible to glean something useful from this guy - but I agree - he is a bit overblown. (and certainly inconsistent - as shown above)...likewise these Eastern trancedental philosophys can only get you so far - and to take them further doesn't necessarily bring "enlightenment" - at least no more then a good heroin habit will...bottom line they have it wrong IMO - it is the material - the flesh and blood - and the social intercourse that are of paramount importance - not being irresponsible and wandering off and just being worried about your own trip... This is not only it. When I said to Sasun that he was a better person than that guy, I was taking about intelligence and honesty. None of us here at hyeforum need to invent successes such as lifting more weight than the human bone could support without braking. If his messages are so great and full of wisedom, why would he need such lies to attract attention? This man is a megalomanic fraud... just take a look at all places he is trying to have his signature on, he even tried on the statue of liberty. I really fail to see why Sasun is so passionate about this man. And no, I disagree about him not being a bad person Thoth, he IS bad. Actually the large majority of his disciples are more pure than him, like in any others sects. At least many live by the messages given by their gurus. Asking for celibacy when there is strong evidences of sexual abuses against him etc... I don't know what to add more. I forced myself to not talk about those things. Sasun believe me you are more full of wisedom than him, you worth more than this fraud. Why don't you write your philosophy down here. At least it will smell honesty. When will this Chinmy go help his country the way that mother Theresa has done it? While this man was singing of joy about peace and love, mother Theresa was saving the lives of people that Chinmy would have even not dared to touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Oh come on Sasun. I really have difficulty understanding why you like so much that man. Anyone can make sense out of worthless sentences, I do not say that this man does not make sense, but what he writes is not exeptional. You are making him like he was a god incarnate. Oh and, you already knew my views regarding him, you are answering me like if I surprised you. I might not know so much about religion as you put it, but here spirituality does not correlate with religion. I know about spirituality more than you think I know about. I am just being honest here, this man does not worth all the attention you have for him, he's saying nothing new, his wisedom is no way above average, and his writtings smell arrogance. What is this thing about having disciples? Who does he think he is? Am I the only here not considering this man so extraordinary? I mean, just reading few pages from new age books in a bookstore one would find equivalent writtings. So he paints, so as Armat and others here... so he can talk about god, so as any other people here. Give me just one valid reason why I should take this man seriously Sasun. Domino, you have your own mind to decide whom you take seriously or not, who am I to say. I see why you don't understand because like you I have not understood. But even though you claim to know about spirituality I am thinking you mean something quite different. First of all, there is a lot of ignorance and bigotry in the west regarding gurus (because of ignorance there are also fake gurus who take advantage of stupid people) Well, in the east, from very ancient times there were gurus and there were disciples. Guru means someone who illumines you. They were not having fun, but the guru was teaching the disciples something that ordinary teachers could not teach. In a nutshell, that was the art of liberation. Now that the world is bigger, some gurus have come to the west and have western disciples. No offence Domino, but if someone agrees to be a disciple of someone else, who are you to say who he thinks he is, he is arrogant, etc... He is not arrogant at all, in fact from close observation you will see so much humility that you could not imagine that a real person could have. There are many clues to suggest that Sri Chinmoy is a great spiritual Master. You have every right to not believe me, you have to see it yourself. But you fail to see it, many people fail to see it. I am not brainwashed to say it, I did not grow up my parents teaching me a bible about Sri Chinmoy so I would blindly follow it. I see and feel it and I say it - period. Unless you can see it I cannot explain to you. In fact, the first time I came accross to Sri Chinmoy I didn't like or care about any of his writings. The only thing I liked was his music, and what I regard wisdom of highest order today, seemed average constructs of words back then. But now, what you call a retarded logic I call it wisdom, and wisdom is not always obvious, it will often contradict to you previous knowledge. This is not a matter of intelligence, there is more involved. I remember once you made a remark about a poem that I quoted here, and you said it didn't make sense or something like that... in that case I feel helpless to explain to you, because poetry is not a subject to analytical explanation. Whatever a poem has, it is in the form of a poetry. It cannot be analyzed. If that was the case, there would be no poetry but only dry analysis. The same is true about music and art. How can I expain to you that a painting is artful and meaningul if you don't like it, or how can I tell you about the merits of a melody unless you hear it and appreciate it... At any rate Domino, Sri Chinmoy has written many-many books at various levels. Some are easy to understand, some are not easy, some seem contradictory, above all they are most of the time meant to inspire and illumine. They are not meant to teach us about the workings of the universe, so don't expect to read science (perhaps you are unsatisfied not finding anything like that). Things that I quote here are mostly simple, nice poems, parables or other inspiring things. In new age books you can read many people talking about God, but nobody has realized God, nobody has a first-hand knowledge of God, and often they will say new age nonsense (e.g. that one can see God while having sex). I could not possibly explain who Sri Chinmoy is because as incredible as it may seem to you, he is a man who has achieved infinity, how can I explain with my finite vision. But some things are important to mention. 1) he is a God-realized Master, if you know what God-realized means you will understand, otherwise you will not 2) he is a true Guru, he can and does help sincere seekers in the path of God-realization 3) he has no other things to do in this life, he is 100% (not 99.99%) selfless at the service of those who wish to be helped and inspired 4) writing, painting, athletics, etc... are only side functions of Sri Chinmoy, above all he is a Guru/spiritual teacher who will help you to achieve God-realization/liberation/enlightenment by practicing meditation and living a spiritual life. Well, now for someone who does not believe in God, liberation, etc... nothing will make any sense. Or in other words, unless you know you are in prison, what is to you the art freeing yourself from the prison. So there you go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 This is not only it. When I said to Sasun that he was a better person than that guy, I was taking about intelligence and honesty. None of us here at hyeforum need to invent successes such as lifting more weight than the human bone could support without braking. If his messages are so great and full of wisedom, why would he need such lies to attract attention? This man is a megalomanic fraud... just take a look at all places he is trying to have his signature on, he even tried on the statue of liberty. I really fail to see why Sasun is so passionate about this man. And no, I disagree about him not being a bad person Thoth, he IS bad. Actually the large majority of his disciples are more pure than him, like in any others sects. At least many live by the messages given by their gurus. Asking for celibacy when there is strong evidences of sexual abuses against him etc... I don't know what to add more. I forced myself to not talk about those things. Sasun believe me you are more full of wisedom than him, you worth more than this fraud. Why don't you write your philosophy down here. At least it will smell honesty. When will this Chinmy go help his country the way that mother Theresa has done it? While this man was singing of joy about peace and love, mother Theresa was saving the lives of people that Chinmy would have even not dared to touch. Domino, now you fell in the trap of some liars, I know about those allegations. There is one person who poses different names to throw trash on Sri Chinmoy. Domino, you should be familiar with liars as you often face among genocide deniers... and as far as lifting weights, well I have seen with my own eyes, not a tape. Don't think that his disciples are naive people, I am not naive either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Oh by the way, as for helping others, Sri Chinmoy has been organizing humanitarian aid for many years, he has helped 100 countries. Just recently he went to Russia to meet the hospital he has been helping. Now, Domino, you know how lies spread. Someone could be yelling that he is not helping, and everyone would hear it. You see, I have known his path for a few years, but only recently I heard that he has been involved in humanitarian aid activities. How can it be? We are used to see when someone gives a penny they write in newpapers. But you won't see Sri Chinmoy telling it around to gain praise. That is, Domino, called humility and non-attachment. Give and not mention, don't take any credit for it - something that he teaches. P.S. He has saved lives too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Oh, and one more thing about those allegation. It is exactly like a jounalist will write about the Armenian Genocide, most of the time they will say Armenians say a genocide happened, while Turks say it did not. It is like a journalist's duty to present both sides. But only one side is true. There are 2-3 ex-desciples of Sri Chinmoy who have decided to throw trash on their ex-guru for whatever reason. But on the other side, there are hundreds of women who will very politely and sincerely state that those allegations are complete nonsense. However, they are quiet and mind their own business rather than yelling like those 2-3 people (who, by the way, by their own admission are on psychiatric medicins). I am personally familiar with the accounts of about 20 woman disciples who will say many-many good things about their guru. So you decide, who is telling the truth. Besides, the logic of such allegations is faulty. Domino, please think and be sure before claiming that someone is a fraud. Out of ordinary behavior and life-style does not equate to fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 I have a friend who follows this guy Rama - http://www.fredericklenz.com/ He speaks of him much the same way you speak of Chinmoy Sasun...more in fact - as he has meditated and such with him out in the desert in California (Mojave I believe)...anyway he claims that he has seen Rama manifest himself into a beem of light...perhaps you should check him out. One thing about Rama that has always amused me while he claims no material needs etc (or did - I really haven't checked him out latey - he may have transformed into a neo-Reagan republican - like Bush Jr by now)...anyway he says the one worldly thing he gets off on is driving his Porsche at high speeds on the LA freeway! lol...well there is at least one thing I can agree with him on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Of course I see that there are many Rama's on the net - includig: http://www.turkorama.com/ lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Here we go: http://www.zenmasterrama.com/ http://www.ramalila.com/ http://www.threethings.net/index.htm http://www.imeditate.com/ http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/glance-br...8995838-4347255 footnote: aparently he is dead... and remember now: Care, share and be fair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 People could be really irrational and hostile at times... so Domino think about this. One of Sri Chinmoy's teachings is practice of self-transendence. That means to do things better, to be a better person, to have better qualities, shortly to transcend yourself. One of the things is practice of self-transendence in athletics. Now if this master were to teach self-transendence but not practice himself some people would call him a hypocrite and a bad person. But he does practice whatever he teaches, and weight-lifting is a perfect example of self transcendence. Well, in this case people will call him a fraud. What is my point? My point is, if you set your mind that this man is a bad, dishonest person, then nothing will convince you because you have chosen to be irrational and blind. The same way, Jesus Christ was preaching peace and brotherhood, there was absolutely no bad intentions in his words or doings, but he was crucified as a troublemaker and a bad person. Now tell me please, where is honesty and goodness here? You have set your mind that gurus are frauds and schizophrenics, unless you accept intellectual humility and admit that you really don't know about that for sure, nothing will convince you otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 (edited) From a follower of Rama (Uncle Tantra): When pressed to delineate the characteristics of an enlightened being, Rama only named two. The first was that, when you meditated with them, you could see that they radiated an aura of golden light. The second, in my opinion, was far more interesting. It wasn’t one of those things you’d expect if you’ve read a lot of books about enlightened beings. It wasn’t, “They are completely positive beings, and can neither conceive of nor do any harm to those around them.” It wasn’t, “They are incapable of speaking anything but truth.” It wasn’t, “They are fun to be around, so studying with them will turn your life into endless bliss.” Nope, none of that. What Rama named as the second characteristic of the enlightened was much simpler, and possibly more profound: “They are funny.” http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/index.html Edited July 9, 2004 by THOTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Who is Rama? Imagine walking on a forest trail and meeting a magical deer. The deer is not of this world yet is there, just before you, radiating love, wisdom, and power. You grow still. Soon you and the deer communicate to each other in levels deeper than words. Then it leaves. You keep walking but can't wait to see someone else on the trail to tell them about the deer, someone who still believes in magic. Rama--Dr. Frederick Lenz was a contemporary Buddha (enlightened one) who taught over 100,000 people how to meditate. Throughout his 20+ years of teaching, he also inspired with his fearlessness, entertained with his humor, and educated meditation students in his unique blend of Eastern mysticism and American pragmatism. His teachings, called American Buddhism, have helped thousands to discover the best in themselves and others. Because he was an enlightened master, Rama was able to transmit enlightened states of mind to those who meditated with him. Seeing gold light around Rama while he meditated was as common to those who meditated with him as seeing green grass is in the spring. After an amazingly full and varied life, Rama achieved his Mahasamadhi (left his body) on April 12, 1998. Yet magical deer never really go away; they remain for all who call upon their compassion and their love. For more information about Rama, including a longer biography, please visit the following websites: Frederick Lenz Foundation Frederick Lenz.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 (edited) http://www.americanbuddha.com/ I like this one: The new Canadian mantra is "Om Mani Padme, Eh?" Edited July 9, 2004 by THOTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 (edited) "Then Rama stood next to the cliff and the moon rising over the ridge behind us bathed him in soft light. But in addition to the moonlight, I could see two thick shafts of white light shooting out from Rama's chest: one in the direction of the moon, and one angling down to the earth." ... "You see, you're running someplace, trying to accomplish something. But you missed the point, because you've already arrived. Right now, here in the desert we're living the best moments of our lives. These are the times that stand far apart from our ordinary lives, because it's here that we witness eternity. But even here in the desert, where unfathomable mysteries unfold before you, you still just don't think about God, because I know you don't want to hear about God. But every once in a while we should remember what it is that we're doing in this study. You're misers, maybe not with your money, but with your hearts. Dead at age twenty or thirty, because you don't know what it means to love existence." "Your purpose in this world is not to become powerful. It's to help people, to live your life like a warrior, and to love." Rama said that there are countless varieties of beings, all using the universe in different ways for their own benefit. But there are a very few beings who simply love and appreciate creation, who love the weeds and the frogs and the people, who have a deep reverence for all life." ... ... "First Rama explained the biological theory of "ontogeny recapitulates philogeny", which postulates that during earliest growth the human fetus recapitulates all stages of the evolution of life. The growing fetus, in a few weeks, retraces the entire evolutionary process, from single-celled organism, to fish, to mammal, to human. Thus within every human is the recapitulated development of all life. In the context of reincarnation, every being is a composite of all creation; that within a frog is all the recapitulated development and knowledge of the universe. "That we are, each one of us, eternity." We meditated again and Rama told us to watch him. He spun back towards the cliff, leaving tracers of light behind him. When he walked, I saw after-images of light in all the places that he left behind. Then he raised his hands, pointing them diagonally into the sky towards the east. There were straight thin rays of golden light shooting from his hands into the night sky. When he dropped his hands the rays of light lingered for a time, and then dissipated slowly, like a jetstream." ... "Another student said that he had seen "wavy-floaty things" hanging around the area, like streamers of light hanging and twisting in mid-air. Rama explained that these are very high beings who have gone beyond physical incarnation, pure manifestations of light. They are attracted by Rama's purity. The image of them that we see is only the tip of the iceberg. Some of them are thousands of feet tall. Rama said that many great composers and inventors have been inspired by these beings during dreaming." http://www.buddhistmonk.com/ ...I'll have you converted before you know it Sasun...lol ... "Rama claimed to be a "multi-incarnation" teacher with a resume that included stints in many of the high holy places known for eastern religion, magic and mysticism. Tibetan Buddhist Dalai Lama, Japanese Zen Master, and even High Priest of the Atlantean and Egyptian Mystery Schools were listed among his accomplishments." Edited July 9, 2004 by THOTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 more.. "I had always wanted to get a ride in Rama’s car. He told me to wait while he pulled around. A minute later his black V12 Mercedes pulled to a stop, purring softly and powerfully by the curb. The passenger door opened and I got in. The first thing I thought as I sunk into the massive leather seat was that this wasn’t a normal car. A myriad of lights, gauges and communication devices ran all the way across the dashboard, making it look more like the cockpit of an airplane. I had climbed into Rama’s “Command and Control” center, not a passenger vehicle! Rama didn’t look at me when he said, “You’re only the second person to ride in this car.” That made me even more nervous. I sat very still, trying to quiet my mind, as I’ve learned that a person’s thoughts can leave impressions on things that psychics will sense long after that person physically departs. The last thing I wanted to do was leave my thought “fingerprints” in Rama’s car. But my fears were blasted to bits a moment later when Rama turned on his sound system. There was going to be no conversation on this journey, as heavy metal rock filled the car with a sudden fury as we pulled quickly out of the parking lot. The music wasn’t just loud – it was all around me and seemed to be penetrating my bones. The music was so consuming that I forgot about being nervous and just listened. In contrast to the soul-scorching music, Rama drove slowly and carefully as we headed toward the diner. ... After eating, we got back in the car. Rama put the heavy metal music back on, full volume. It occurred to me at that moment that he was not seeing the same things when he drove that I was seeing. I remembered his comment from a lecture years before when he mentioned that while most people see everyday objects in the world as fixed and static objects, he sees the world as energy patterns, as shapes and formations of shifting, living light. Everything is alive, he said, and it’s just our conditioning that prevents us from seeing things as they really are. I could only imagine what an experience it must have been for him to drive! When we got back to the office, I got out of the car and started towards my own car to set out on my way home. I got into my economy model Honda with its tidy fabric bucket seats and its plastic moulded dashboard. I felt very different, like I had stepped out of a five-star restaurant into a Burger King. It became very clear to me at that moment that the environment that we choose to surround ourselves with impacts the type and quality of thoughts that we think. I understood why money is so important to a modern spiritual seeker: we need it in order to establish an environment that will be conducive to the meditative practice, because it’s impractical and probably illegal to live in a cave. I thanked Rama inwardly for showing me his 20th century “cave”. A few months later I leased a luxury car which had a profound effect on my self image and my level of inner peace. " 3 times lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 likewise these Eastern trancedental philosophys can only get you so far - and to take them further doesn't necessarily bring "enlightenment" - at least no more then a good heroin habit will...bottom line they have it wrong IMO - it is the material - the flesh and blood - and the social intercourse that are of paramount importance - not being irresponsible and wandering off and just being worried about your own trip... Thoth Your ignorance is very transparant here furthermore you generalize to extreme without a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Thoth Your ignorance is very transparant here furthermore you generalize to extreme without a clue. No not at all - I believe in what I said and I say it with more knowledge and understanding then you might imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Sasun j I honestly don’t know enough about him to have opinion weather pro or against but it amazes me how easily one can trash someone without knowing anything of value and base the harsh judgments on some Internet garbage. I thought mature adults suppose to think more analytically… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Thoth you say” bottom line they got it wrong" and how you know that anyway. Did you study various Yoga traditions and methods? Himalayan Buddhists including Zen? Just to mention few. What gives you the authority for such declarations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Sasun j I honestly don’t know enough about him to have opinion weather pro or against but it amazes me how easily one can trash someone without knowing anything of value and base the harsh judgments on some Internet garbage. I thought mature adults suppose to think more analytically… Armat jan, very often it is easier to believe in lies than the truth. As long as lies are confortable and truth is not, most people will pick the lie over the truth. In this case, many people don't like the idea of celibacy. It is their choice, no doubt. But instead of shutting up and minding their business they will try to spread lies trying to dishonor and hurt the image of a celibate person. This is not a new thing. In fact, if I am not mistaken, something like that happened to the Buddha. Of course, prior to becoming the Buddha Sidharta was a family man and prince with a wife and a child. But after he got enlightened he was celibate and preached celibacy to his diciples. Then one woman appeared claiming that Buddha is a fraud, that he is lying, that he had sex with her and she has a child from him. For many years this woman would claim this horrific lie trying to trash Buddha's light. Who knows what was on her mind, maybe she wanted him and got rejected, maybe for some other reason she hated him and tried to hurt him. Anyway, the Buddha just kept disregarding her. But after many years, something happened to this woman and she admitted that she was telling a lie and nothing like that happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Thoth you say” bottom line they got it wrong" and how you know that anyway. Did you study various Yoga traditions and methods? Himalayan Buddhists including Zen? Just to mention few. What gives you the authority for such declarations? Yes I have...to a degree...(not practice,,,but studued teachings and methods and such)...but thats not my point...my point is that Eastern religions - when taken to extreme - focus on individual transcendence (to the exclusion of the worldly)....and to me this can only take one (and society) so far - OK - so one can become enlightened/aware of underlying currents/obtain insights - that is certainly valuable and worthwhile - as are the personal benefits one can achieve - but IMO - it is a major blind spot to ignore the corporeal - the world around us - and I cannot ascribe to any philosophy that purports that physical reality - flesh & blood, environmental and societal concerns are less important the ethereal (and striclty mental and nonm-corporeal spiritual) ones. I don't deny that Eastern appoaches cannot and do not have their great benefits - and the Western religious approaches are incomplete without such - all I am claiming is that the Eastern approaches (and yes I am generalizing) are incomplete/insufficient - and to me there is a great danger (likewise with Western religious approaches - which tend to cast a broader moral net - in a sense...) in thinking that they are the do all and end all...and bottom line I reject the notions that our physical world and societal and worldly issues are not the paramount concern for humans on this planet. To me no "enlightenment" is complete without acknowledgement of such and thus - taken to the extreme - as called for by practicers of such - is in effect a diservice and ultimatly a lie. All the same I do understand that Buddism - in general - does have a substansial corporeal aspect and concern...but those who adhere to the denial of the flesh and who favor the ascetic approach are not doing the rest of us any favors. Sure - insights are possible/available and self - realization and such...but this is incomplete IMO - and this is what I reject.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts