Liars And Braggers

[kakachik77]

Gamavor, I know I live in this hell.

 

This thread sucks by the way... it shows how ignorant are we (Armenians) of each other, it's about us against them and no healthy argument can spring from it.

[kakachik77]

No, I was just saying that. And I did not even realize that phenomenon until now.

 

Because if you live in a closed society, with no or extremely little access to the outside, you develop your opinions on the little that you see and hear. In Armenia at the time all you heard was how communism was so great etc., how the USSR is going to leave the US behind etc., how people are so happy, etc. Over time you have no choice but to believe it. It's not like you have the ability to fully research yourself.

 

Now I realize why so many Armenians truly believe that. I almost don't blame them. But still when they finally see something else, they can start changing a little bit and realize a few things on their own.

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Armenians NEVER believed in Soviet/Russian propaganda and actually nobody did for that matter. Have you heard of 1937 assasinations of Armenian intellectuals, or 1965 civil rights movement (I think Shirak was one of the main organizers) where Armenians were finally let to commemorate the Armenian Genocide?

 

What you are writing here is what you heard from the Western propagandists against the people in USSR. Armenians were lining up in front of embassies to be re-united with their relatives that were spread across the globe because of the Genocide, not to move to US to enjoy hamburgers.

[Sasun]

Kakachik, this is because American-Armenians adopted tha same mentality from the Anglos. Do you know how many times they asked me if we had TV, Cable or cars in Bulgaria. Americans are the most ignorant and arogant people on Earth.

 

If they only knew for how many other things in life they are wayyyyy behind!

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Speaking of ignorance, you may be underestimating the English people. This may not be true for everyone, but nevertheless... this was in Essex, some say it is a backwards place in England, I don't really know relatively speaking. We a group of Armenians were asked some quetions from a curious Englishman and his wife. We said we are Armenian. He was like, what? What is that? A religion? We said no, Armenia is a country, used to be part of former Soviet Union. He got more curious asking what Soviet Union was, we said it was a big country that collopsed recently. He was like, wow!!! really, it collapsed ??? He was really amazed. It was pretty funny, specially if you hear it in Essex dialect (sounds somewhat German to me). If I was not a poor student I would buy a fresh newspaper and make a gift to the curious man.

 

But forget the remote and unknown Armenia, there was a study in English schools to find out how knowledgable the pupils were. One of the questions was where Paris was located. You would be surprised at the answers, some said it is in Yorkshire, some said it is in Europe, some said it is in Poland, etc. and a few said it is in France

Edited September 9, 2004 by Sasun

[Azat]

So you guys really believe we came to the US because we missed our relatives? PLEASE...

 

We(our family) came for the opportunities that this country provided that Soviet Armenia did not

 

BTW: Our family did live a very comfy life, and when we cam to the US it was a MUCH harder life here, but we all believed in our future in this country and did not see much of a future there.

 

Narir jan, I am not sure what kind of a home your folks have, I own a home in the US that is worth about 3/4 of a million dollars. Yet our home in Yerevan was about twice the size of my home here. It is true that it did not have all the comforts(washer dryer/microwave and multiple color tv and such) but it was a much better home there. And the view of Masis alone was worth billions.

 

With all that said I would not give up all my comforts in LA and move back to Yerevan nor would I claim that we had a better life or anything like that

[Sip]

Yet our home in Yerevan was about twice the size of my home here.  It is true that it did not have all the comforts(washer dryer/microwave and multiple color tv and such...

 

Not even DSL?

[Azat]

why do you think I can't live in Armenia Sip.... The internet service is too slow.

[kakachik77]

Azat, today in Armenia you can get washer/dryer and microwave from a store called ZigZag (this is in case you want to move back

[Azat]

I know it well Kakachik jan. Was in Yerevan recently and ZigZag was like heaven to me

[DominO123]

why do you think I can't live in Armenia Sip.... The internet service is too slow.

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See Azat this is your problem. If it happens that a beautiful woman could asks you for a favor you will tell her to wait because you have some electronic crap you are playing with. Boy it isn't for nothing that you are single...

Edited September 9, 2004 by Fadix

[Azat]

where have I heard that before?

[shiner]

So you guys really believe we came to the US because we missed our relatives?  PLEASE...

 

We(our family) came for the opportunities that this country provided that Soviet Armenia did not

 

BTW: Our family did live a very comfy life, and when we cam to the US it was a MUCH harder life here, but we all believed in our future in this country and did not see much of a future there.

 

Narir jan, I am not sure what kind of a home your folks have, I own a home in the US that is worth about 3/4 of a million dollars.  Yet our home in Yerevan was about twice the size of my home here.  It is true that it did not have all the comforts(washer dryer/microwave and multiple color tv and such) but it was a much better home there.  And the view of Masis alone was worth billions.

 

With all that said I would not give up all my comforts in LA and move back to Yerevan nor would I claim that we had a better life or anything like that

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Azat,

Good post. It's a good thing you are not letting nostalgia and emotion get in the way of clear thinking.

 

 

 

It's natural and good to love your home country. It is natural to not fully feel at home outside your home country, especially if you moved later in life. It's natural to treasure your home country.

 

But to let all that get in the way of clear thinking and acknowledging obvious differences and advantages in your adopted country is just plain naive to say the least.

By you I mean the general "you".

 

*** Fixed the quote

Edited September 10, 2004 by ExtraHye

[gamavor]

But to let all that get in the way of clear thinking and acknowledging obvious differences and advantages in your adopted country is just plain naive to say the least.

By you I mean the general "you".

 

Shiner, my Friend, don't forget - it is trade off! You trade something in your life for something else, because you believe that at this point in life it is more valuable to you (and me, I have to be honest here ) Just as an example. After the fall of the Berlin Wall, 14,000 Americans of Hungarian decent went back to Hungaria. Most of them were not even born there, but they chose to go back because of exactly the "comforts" of life over there and not in US. That is of course with their American pensions.

 

In the mind set of many East Europeans there is a fixation that their countries are the same as the time they left. That is not the case at all. If you have money right now you can have exactly the same life style almost everywhere, and honestly some more simple freedoms.

[shiner]

Gamavor,

I think you are right about "trade off".

 

Let's take for example a Mexican who moves back to Mexico from LA. Maybe he feels better in his hometown, speaking Spanish, being close to his neighbors, family etc. He might do even better business-wise if he has the right connections there etc.

 

In this case he is happier in Mexico, Mexico definitely suits him better, and its very understandable. It's actually good for him to have found his place.

 

But for him to say that Mexico is ahead of the US, or that Mexico has a better overall system, or standard of living, or opportunities, or that the US is hell as opposed to Mexico for the general population, etc, and similar statements, WOULD NOT MAKE ANY SENSE.

 

That's all I'm emphasizing. The above hypothetical example could be used for other countries and immigrants, Armenians included.

[gamavor]

I have always claimed that USA are the best for Pakistanis, Indians, Mexicans, Middle Easterners, etc..

 

Europeans come to US for money. I met few that came for other reasons.

 

People (esp. young) from Moslem countries are subjected to number of restrictions. They cannot eat certain food, they cannot consume alcohol, they cannot fool around with different girls , and so on and so on. Of course America is a paradise for them.

Edited September 9, 2004 by gamavor

[nairi]

Kakachik, Monopoly: I don't think there is a more CAPITALIST game than that. Half the stuff we would bring from Europe for family etc. was NOT available in the SU and many of it was even illegal. Like I'm sure you'll say you had bubble-gum as well in Armenia. Guess what? It was not produced IN Armenia, but illegally shipped in by relatives, friends etc. from the West.

 

Azat, once again, I'm not saying that Armenia/SU was totally worthless and I'm not saying everyone from Armenia (and Iran!! Dont forget!) are liars and braggers. But we have people who exaggerate or straight out lie about themselves. We've all met them. Maybe my examples were bad (although I'm 100% sure these people were lying), but you get the point, right? There are liars and braggers among us. I'm sick of them. Are you?

[Stormig]

cannot eat certain foot

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Who in their right minds would want to?

[kakachik77]

Kakachik, Monopoly: I don't think there is a more CAPITALIST game than that. Half the stuff we would bring from Europe for family etc. was NOT available in the SU and many of it was even illegal. Like I'm sure you'll say you had bubble-gum as well in Armenia. Guess what? It was not produced IN Armenia, but illegally shipped in by relatives, friends etc. from the West.

 

No, Monopoly existed in Russian and we called it "monopolia". USSR in 80s was not as restrictive as it was in 30s/40s/50s. Bubble gum came from US etc when people's relatives visited they usually would bring a whole bunch (normally bought from stores like CostCo , I don't think it was ILLEGAL to bring in bubble gum. Don't take literally what's written in the books about what was legal or illegal to bring in to USSR, if that country operated on law it would still be around, merely reading books and listening to Western propaganda will not make you understand how that country worked.

 

Again us against them is a bad thing to do, we all are Armenians, some of us had the opportunity to have more materialistically comfortable lives in the West and it's childish and immature to put people down because they have little insecurities about their material well-being and have to fabricate few things here and there to compensate for it. My dad moved to Armenia in 60s and although he did admit that Armenia was way poor materialistically at the same time he admired the intellectual superiority of Soviet people in science, technology etc.

[gamavor]

Thank You Stormig! I love the "edit" button!

[Armen]

Outside Eye:A non-Armenian's view of life in his adopted home

 

By John Hughes

ArmeniaNow Editor

 

Eight years ago this week I discovered Armenia.

 

Wait, that’s not accurate.

 

Eight years ago this week, I became aware of Armenia. Discovery is an ongoing process that neither the natives nor the invader could have predicted would last this long.

 

Nor was either side clamoring for what has turned into . . . well, I don’t know what, as it is still turning.

 

Ironic, I find it, that a land that virtually puts the full-stop punctuation behind the term “history”, could find itself leading such an elliptical existence. Change comes without guarantee of its effect and with reserved acquiescence to its inevitability.

 

It was the history that drew me here. It is the elliptical living that keeps me. We have similar personalities, Armenia and me. Old enough, we are, to behave better than we do, but too contrary to achieve that aim with any degree of regularity.

 

Passionate we are, about those we love, but demanding more of those who love us. And ever mindless of reasons why the exponent of such a characteristic is life without satisfaction, much less, stability. (And before rushing to psycho-analytical conclusions, do not confuse “satisfaction” with “peace”, nor “stability” with “security”.)

 

Elliptical . . . For some of us (though few, I suspect) it is a good enough reason for being here.

 

We landed in the dark at a toilet calling itself a terminal. Dark men in dark clothes drove us in dark cars to dark accommodations.

 

It is an image that lingers these days when Zvartnots has duty free shopping and uniformed staff, and the airport road is the brightest in the city – albeit lit by casino neon.

 

That week there were tanks blocking entry to Opera Square, armed soldiers in front of Parliament and anger and unease in the air.

 

This week, if Opera Square is blocked it is because of an overflow of café society elite trying to get a seat in the square’s cafes. (I think I prefer the tanks.)

 

A week into my visit, I was shown the one place in the city from which I could send email. Now, I pass six Internet cafes on just one street on my short walk to this newsroom.

 

Served hotdog wieners, chopped up Snickers bars, and instant coffee heated on a stone element for breakfast on my first mornings here, I now can choose from a menu of coffees in restaurants where mayonnaise, mercifully, is no longer served as a delicacy.

 

Yesterday, I got a phone call from a company offering me a 60-channel television service, and three nights ago I had almost-believable Thai food delivered to my fifth-floor, no elevator flat by a driver who refused a tip.

 

In 1996, there was no telephone connection in the place where we stayed for two weeks in the center of the city.

 

Two days ago I had to wait 15 minutes for service while a crowd of customers – mostly 20-something aged girls – shopped over three shelves of cell phones with prices from $85 to $465. (And, the girls were shopping on the top shelf. Think about that the next time we tell you that the “official” income here is $50 a month.)

 

Change comes.

 

And, yes, hardship lingers. Every day there are more street beggars. And what happens in Yerevan should not be equated with what happens in villages.

 

Those of us who care about Armenia are necessarily concerned about the gap between the well off and the impoverished. But in some twisted way (and maybe this is Armenian logic I’m inflicted with) it is a sign of improvement – and a glimmer of hope – that the gap even exists.

 

In eight years I’ve watched the pendulum of privilege swing. It appears to be reaching its arc. And it will be a joy to see an Armenia in which the pendulum swings back toward an egalitarian middle.

 

It is the nature of elliptical living, in a place as old as life itself.