nairi Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 (edited) For a while now I've noticed this thing among many "fresh-off-the boat"-ers and it's really beginning to tick me off. I'm talking about parskahays and hayastancis in particular because they're the ones I mostly meet. It's petty things, but I don't understand why they have to lie and brag about practically everything. Some of them are very modest and honest, don't get me wrong. But the majority that I've met so far can't stop themselves somehow. Little things! Petty things! Things that you don't need to lie about and even when you do we can tell you're lying!! Here's an example. You come to their house on your bike and they say something like "I used to have exactly the same bike in Armenia/Persia. I was even invited to participate in the national biking contest because I was so good, but I declined". What?????? Another one. You want to play Monopoly and you hear: "Oh yes, I remember that game. We used to play it in Armenia all the time when we were kids." What???????? Last one. You're talking about ATM (pin) machines, and your uncle says something like: "Ooh la, Shahi zhamanak Parskastanum patits pogh eink hanum." What???????? Why????????? Edited August 31, 2004 by nairi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Nairi, don't know about the bike thing...but me and my friends realy used to play a lot of Monopoly back in the late 80s. My friend's mom brought it from England. And lot of kids made their own one's copying from that original. Uncle. I think he meant that they had lot of money during the Shah period, which was true I guess. But the phenomena you're talking about is true and not only for Hayastantsie's and Parskayhe but for all Armenians. We always try to establish an emotional contact with other Armenians. Sometimes the way to do it is to lie. I catch myself doing that sometimes But as I grow older I do it less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Actually, if you noticed Armenian rarely lie to foreigners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted August 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 (edited) Nairi, don't know about the bike thing...but me and my friends realy used to play a lot of Monopoly back in the late 80s. Hmm. Really? Trouble is that this person has lied and bragged so often that no matter what he says, I don't trust anymore. As for my uncle, he meant that they had ATM machines in Persia!! I get the feeling that they don't want to be seen as retarded, or unequal to us. Trouble is that they seem that way when they're lying. And they lie so much that it's beginning to get to me. We all "lie" at times, even just petty excuses for why we came late to class. But this is a different lie somehow. Anyway, you know what I'm talking about, and that's the main point Armen jan, I don't know about foreigners, because I'm not one But they don't seem to back down in front of foreigners either, at least when I'm around. Edited August 31, 2004 by nairi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 (edited) Hmm. Really? Trouble is that this person has lied and bragged so often that no matter what he says, I don't trust anymore. As for my uncle, he meant that they had ATM machines in Persia!! I get the feeling that they don't want to be seen as retarded, or unequal to us. Trouble is that they seem that way when they're lying. And they lie so much that it's beginning to get to me. We all "lie" at times, even just petty excuses for why we came late to class. But this is a different lie somehow. Anyway, you know what I'm talking about, and that's the main point Armen jan, I don't know about foreigners, because I'm not one But they don't seem to back down in front of foreigners either, at least when I'm around. style_images/master/snapback.png Besides the feeling of unequalness...I think the main reason is that we're so few that, especially when abroad, we try to cement the Armenians around us as a group. One of the ways is to find some things that you all did once. Or to say something "sooooooooooo very Armenian", that only you knew and noone else had an idea that this was present in Armenian culture. When I came to U.S. a year ago and met my old school friend from Armenia who came here some 5 years ago...we talked for days and days and I couldn't believe how much I lied to him about how things are good in Armenia. Edited August 31, 2004 by ArmenSarg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Nairi, don't know about the bike thing...but me and my friends realy used to play a lot of Monopoly back in the late 80s. style_images/master/snapback.png I remember playing it as well. I think the one we played was with foreign cars like Volvo as opposed to Jiguli. Nairi, wasn't armenian community always about a projection of a prominent image. It's evident in their display of wealth (and by that I mean a full table, fancy chandeliers) at home while they don't have a dime in their pocket. Could be a result of living in such scarcity that one learns to make the most of everything even if it has to be accomplished through an extreme exaggeration. In other words instead of recalling pity in others they eliminate the discomfort by boasting. I don't know, I could be totally wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 (edited) Nairi, sorry, but I do not agree with you. Just because Iran or Armenia is not as developed does not mean that they are "behind on the times". This is the kind of attitude that is only prevalent among Americans in that they think that everything revolves around America. So, by your logic a Japanese person has a right to assume that Americans or Europeans are a "backwards" people because Japan is 10 years ahead in technology? No, of course not, but Americans compared with the populations of the rest of the world are not that "morally" and "socially" superior. If some Armenians act the way they do it could be expected or some how explained, but American and European society is morally degenerated far beyond any Armenian. Sorry, but I just do not like the fact that you automatically think Armenians are inferior because they have not absorbed western culture. In fact I am glad they still do not have Monopoly because once it is exported to Armenia and Iran you will also so other degenerative parts of American culture exported as well. Edited August 31, 2004 by Vigil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Besides the feeling of unequalness...I think the main reason is that we're so few that, especially when abroad, we try to cement the Armenians around us as a group. One of the ways is to find some things that you all did once. Or to say something "sooooooooooo very Armenian", that only you knew and noone else had an idea that this was present in Armenian culture. When I came to U.S. a year ago and met my old school friend from Armenia who came here some 5 years ago...we talked for days and days and I couldn't believe how much I lied to him about how things are good in Armenia. style_images/master/snapback.png It's really difficult to believe that you are here only a year, your English is superb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 It's really difficult to believe that you are here only a year, your English is superb. style_images/master/snapback.png Evelina, are you massaging my ego? Thanks for the nice words. I was in an English school in Armenia, than studied English in university and also I post on Hyeforum for 4-5 years already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Nairi, wasn't armenian community always about a projection of a prominent image. It's evident in their display of wealth (and by that I mean a full table, fancy chandeliers) at home while they don't have a dime in their pocket. Could be a result of living in such scarcity that one learns to make the most of everything even if it has to be accomplished through an extreme exaggeration. In other words instead of recalling pity in others they eliminate the discomfort by boasting. I don't know, I could be totally wrong. style_images/master/snapback.png I think this was the exact describtion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted August 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Eve, exactly. And that's bad. Vigil, I said: lying makes them look more retarded. The few honest ones that I've met are MUCH more progressive and "equal" to us than those who lie. The honest ones aren't afraid of not being accepted etc, whereas the liars are. Fact is, that it's the honest ones we accept. When I came to U.S. a year ago and met my old school friend from Armenia who came here some 5 years ago...we talked for days and days and I couldn't believe how much I lied to him about how things are good in Armenia. Armen jan, this is exactly the problem. Who do you think you're fooling? We may be ignorant at first, because we haven't been to Armenia. But the second we set foot there, we know you lied. Why take that risk? As for finding something in common: how about language and culture in general? Why does it have to be materialistic? Of course we grew up with different things! Doesn't mean that one is better than the other. I'd rather have you share your experience than you pretending to have experienced everything that I have.. Because if you only pretend, I'll never really find out 1) who you are, and 2) what you experienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Armen jan, this is exactly the problem. Who do you think you're fooling? We may be ignorant at first, because we haven't been to Armenia. But the second we set foot there, we know you lied. Why take that risk? Well, it is difficult to kill someone's hope Nairi jan. As for finding something in common: how about language and culture in general? Why does it have to be materialistic? Of course we grew up with different things! Doesn't mean that one is better than the other. I'd rather have you share your experience than you pretending to have experienced everything that I have.. Because if you only pretend, I'll never really find out 1) who you are, and 2) what you experienced. style_images/master/snapback.png Don't know. This is very complex. But every time Armenians meet abroad, especially after years of separation, the first hours, days are filled with emotional outburst, which is difficult to control. This is why at present I usually subconsciously disregard the first days of my interaction with Armenians abroad And I started realizing it after talking in this topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Hello nairi jan, In the main museum in Stepanakert (why haven´t they changed that city´s name, btw) there is a small exhibit about the Karabaghtsi that invented the "3 colour TV". I am not sure that this is an outright lie, but it is funny nevertheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-=VAHE=- Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Whats wrong with the name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 (edited) You should hear Armenians talk about how they had "everything" in Armenia in the good ol' days of the 70's. You would think they were living in paradise. I guess they were not starving like in the earlier 40's and 50's which made it seem so. Edited September 1, 2004 by shiner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted September 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 You should hear Armenians talk about how they had "everything" in Armenia in the good ol' days of the 70's. You would think they were living in paradise. I guess they were not starving like in the earlier 40's and 50's which made it seem so. style_images/master/snapback.png I have noticed that <_< They used to do the same in the 80s. They would come to Holland and trash everything saying: "Mer mot aveli lav@ ka.". Yeah right. We went, we saw, we returned. They were fooling no one but themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-=VAHE=- Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Maybe when they talk about how good it was they're also including the fact that they werent on foreign lands and the lifestyle was really laid back since ofcourse it was a communist country. Because I have heard them talk about the different life that goes on in Armenia but not brag about false things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 You should hear Armenians talk about how they had "everything" in Armenia in the good ol' days of the 70's. You would think they were living in paradise. I guess they were not starving like in the earlier 40's and 50's which made it seem so. style_images/master/snapback.png I hear this all the time too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 You should hear Armenians talk about how they had "everything" in Armenia in the good ol' days of the 70's. You would think they were living in paradise. I guess they were not starving like in the earlier 40's and 50's which made it seem so. style_images/master/snapback.png Just for the record. The overall quality (excluding civil rights) of life in Yerevan in 60s and 70s was the same as in any U.S. city of the same period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Just for the record. The overall quality (excluding civil rights) of life in Yerevan in 60s and 70s was the same as in any U.S. city of the same period. style_images/master/snapback.png Really? I thought that was only what you were supposed to believe as a result of communist propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 (edited) Really? I thought that was only what you were supposed to believe as a result of communist propaganda. no, it is fact and you can include civil rights in there also considering what was happening with the blacks in the 60s... Edited September 3, 2004 by Accelerated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Wow, Maybe there even were people in the US who were standing in long lines at the Soviet embassy itching to move to Armenia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Really? I thought that was only what you were supposed to believe as a result of communist propaganda. Why did you ask the question if you had allready made up your mind? <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 No, I was just saying that. And I did not even realize that phenomenon until now. Because if you live in a closed society, with no or extremely little access to the outside, you develop your opinions on the little that you see and hear. In Armenia at the time all you heard was how communism was so great etc., how the USSR is going to leave the US behind etc., how people are so happy, etc. Over time you have no choice but to believe it. It's not like you have the ability to fully research yourself. Now I realize why so many Armenians truly believe that. I almost don't blame them. But still when they finally see something else, they can start changing a little bit and realize a few things on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted September 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Armen, my parental house was built was in 1965. They bought it in 1976. I have yet to see a house like that in Armenia. And it's nothing more than a regular family home. I'm sure if Yerevan looked like any city in the US (or West I assume), my parents would have moved there without a doubt. But even they were smart enough to know that they had it MUCH better in Europe. After all, my dad graduated from Moscow University late 60s as a fervent communist. But then why did he make a definite move to Europe after his degree? Because the SU was on an equal footing with Europe? Don't think so. He realized himself that he was fooling himself and no one else. If he really believed in the communism of the SU, he would've stayed there and I wouldn't have been born. I'm not saying that Armenia/SU was worthless. Some of the things that they produced indeed equaled and were sometimes even better than anything in the West. But overall lifestyle? No. I don't believe it. Maybe because I've seen enough of it to know. Not only that. When some of the honest ones visited Holland, they told the truth. They do it now as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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