Anileve Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Do you think that civility is slowly disappearing? Are we more encouraged to abandon our manners as we slowly emerge into individualism? There was a time when manners were mandatory in the line of communication between people. Individuals conformed to a certain etiquette which was essential for a functional and pleasant habitat. Are we as a more technologically inclined, more civilized and intellectually advanced society deviating from the standards of humane and considerate interaction? Perhaps it is due to a growing population and massive transportation that we are exposed to massive amounts of people, clutching on to a little bit of space we feel we are lacking. Maybe people have always been the same, it’s just when our personal space is compromised we react in a more aggressive manner out of panic. I don’t know. “Manners are dying in part because technological change makes them seem less necessary, and in part as a consequence of the second American revolution that erupted in the 1960s, but they are also a casualty of the illusion generated by our wealth and privilege, that in our luxury we have no fellow passengers. If we are alone in life, why bother to be polite? Especially to those who disagree with us: our causes are far too pressing for us to bother respecting our opponents. And not only have we become rude, we have become oddly ungenerous. We give less time and money to charitable causes. Few of us can be bothered any longer to involve ourselves in self-governance: we are voting less, we are joining less, we are evidently discussing the issues of the day with our fellow citizens less. Thus, our growing incivility becomes a threat to our democracy. Our children are mimicking the incivility of the adult world. In one survey, an astonishing 89 percent of grade school teachers and principals reported that they regularly face abusive language from students.12 Violence in the schools has increased steadily in recent decades, and, in my adopted state of Connecticut, a solid majority of high school students say they could get a gun if they wanted one. We see our young people killing one another over articles of clothing and casual insults, the way people did in less civilized times.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I think that there is less unnecessary formality as a result of more independence and luxury. People are judged on their face value in terms of money more than anything, because that is the main determinant of status. Usually the amount of "civility" and "respect" one is shown is proprotional to their status in society. But what determines status in society. In today's society the main factor is money, and to a much lesser extent looks, education, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel4hope Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 i do think that at times there is a lack of civility... i don't know whether im fully grasping your argument or notion here, but what i got out of it and what i do agree with is that "mardkootsyoonee" as we say in armeian- "koroom e" i do feel that humanity nowadays compared to a few decades ago is worse-- concerning civility-- i do agree with triple S on this one people are "respected" more upon how much money they make- which gives the saying "money makes the man" more credibility... it used to be that the butcher and the baker were also respected, but now these "butchers and bakers" are seen as lower middle class workers, and the more "prosperous" in terms of money are respected more-- i also think that someone can be less educated- as in someone who does not have a degree of any sort, but that person can be more respectable than someone who'se a doctor or a computer nerd... i think what matters most is the individual- regardless or race and creed- once people start putting more emphasis on the individual, and focusing less on monatary status, civility may have another chance.. i definately have more to say about this-- i will post more if anyones interested in reading... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel4hope Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 heres another notion about violence and foul anguage- years ago they were considered "uncivilized" but what does the words uncivilized mean? anthropologically speaking, it's ethnocentric-- if it exists then it is human-- but i do understand that we are used to these norms- but once norms are broken and censorship is also taken away- then the norm becomes what used to be the deviations from the norm-- just like if ones was to step foot into certain countries which do not allow chewing gum in public- this is the norm for them-- but coming back into the US its totally typical to see someone chewing gum on the streets and aso typical to see vandalism... it all depends on how you choose to see things-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 No, it is not the civility that is disappearing. At least civility is not the core disappearing phenomenon. Its disappearance is just an aftermath. It is the reasoning and the existential quality of personality that is disappearing. It is the thought that is yielding its natural habitat to degraded egos fertilized with a feeling of entitlement. These misfortunate egos preside in an existential dimension of thought manifesting feelings of paleontological entitlement without sufficient foundation even for that. It is a period of time when the terms “earning” and “entitlement” are mixed up and messed up. It is an era of blurred lines between the categories of “I want” and “I need.” It is an era of a paradise of vulgar insinuations and shameless claims. It takes place in the space of disgusting salesmanship vs. merit. It is an era where the irresponsibility is sold for freedom. It is a random reality of four-letter priorities convoluted with blue dreams and envy. It is the fact of advancement of eternally shallow and corrupt desires degrading every single dimension of societal morality. To summarize, it is an old story. Nothing new happens on the earth except that every minute yet another hope commits suicide. But I have had more drinks, tonight, that I can usually handle, so I will stop here before (or maybe immediately after) entering the domain of absurdity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Well I can see the use of fancy adjectives is not on the decline... no, you did good MJ....(please) have another... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Oh and I like that - "paleontological entitlement " ... I think we are all soon to be in the mode of "plug and play"...who needs direct social interaction (skills) and (practiced) civility when you can just fill out a form on the net - eh? Oh Brave New World...what wonders I have seen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Do you think that civility is slowly disappearing? Are we more encouraged to abandon our manners as we slowly emerge into individualism? There was a time when manners were mandatory in the line of communication between people. Individuals conformed to a certain etiquette which was essential for a functional and pleasant habitat. Are we as a more technologically inclined, more civilized and intellectually advanced society deviating from the standards of humane and considerate interaction? Perhaps it is due to a growing population and massive transportation that we are exposed to massive amounts of people, clutching on to a little bit of space we feel we are lacking. Maybe people have always been the same, it’s just when our personal space is compromised we react in a more aggressive manner out of panic. I don’t know. I have the perfect soltuion.. we we militarize the whole nation .. then we are mandated to have the civility you ask for!! haha.. am i a genouse or what!! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 ... am i a genouse or what!! Yes that you are. (Notice my lack of civility and sense of entitlement) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted June 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I think you some of you misunderstood what I was trying to convey. First of all the idea of civility is not new, it is very common that in passing time each generation throws its hands in the air with cries of crisis when it comes to manners and a decomposing “moral behavior”. Certainly status and wealth play a moderate role in terms of respectability hierarchy, but eliminating social prescriptions I was referring to a general code of conduct between people. Also the term “civilized” is relative, as angel demonstrated in her analogy, however the basic human consideration for one another is essentially the same everywhere. It’s argued that individualism is to blame for this “selfish” behavior, where the common good is only secondary to the good of self. With which I principally agree, however I favor this selfish mentality and individualism as well. It’s a very thin line between socialism and individualism, either one can develop into an extreme. In a social environment etiquette becomes so important that it’s almost false and forced, and as a result society becomes very conservative. In a selfish society it’s dog eats dog and respect goes out of the window along with privacy and respect. I think it’s wrong to think that civility is a 21 century phenomenon, it pretty much dates into 16th century, first introduced by a Renaissance scholar Erasmus. The real idea dates back to Greece, but popularly defined by Erasmus. So pretty much it’s a common complaint of every era to overexaggerate the increased lack of civility. As gevo pointed out, in order to wipe out the possibility of its existence it must be regulated by a dictatorial government. In addition, civility is almost always reduced to religion. The whole notion of the Judeo-Christian ideology of caring for one another I have a problem with. It sort of suggests that people adhering to those religions are the examples of the “civilized”, in which case it’s prejudice and completely incorrect. How important is really this civility, isn’t it a close relative of conservatism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I think we need a bit of both in the public sphere: "code of conduct" and individuality. There's a whole campaign in Holland now "sowing the seeds of respect" and hoping that the next generation will be able to harvest it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 What's wrong with Holland, Nairi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Armenian refugees from the Caucasus and Mid East Who knows. People are slaughtering each other for no reason. No one ever thought Holland would turn into Los Angeles or New York by the 21st century, so they're trying to find a solution now. I find native elderly people regularly choosing to approach me to ask for a favor over Dutch kids in the same age category as me. Don't think it has much to do with slave-mentality, although I'm not sure. One thing's clear though; the native kids are rude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Really? I thought Dutch guys were gorgeous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Indivuality and individualism are two very distinct things. One may have a strong individuality/personality yet not follow/agree with the tenets of individualism. Actually, individualist societies have accomplished what socialism was engineered to produce, serialized human beings. It may seem paradoxical at first glance that a society built upon individualism yields in most cases empty and superficial individualities. It is not if you think about it. Personality grows inasmuch as one is able to impose his/her will over his/her instincts and defeat/transcend his/her ego. Those people who fail to do so are akin to debilitated animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 I think all of you are swine, personally, but I can live with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 I think we need a bit of both in the public sphere: "code of conduct" and individuality. There's a whole campaign in Holland now "sowing the seeds of respect" and hoping that the next generation will be able to harvest it. "More weed anyone?" would be more honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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