Berg Video

[Anonymouse]

Not that I don't agree that conspiracy theories shouldn't be applied to Berg's case yet...But somehow in recent decade the word "conspiracy" has interestigly acquired a value of a funny, foolish thing and consequently when you say someone is conspiracist you mean foolishness. Meanwhile, remember how intensive was American use of conspiracy theories in Cold War.

This subjective lable (conspiracism) can be countered by a contra-phrase which is not yet popular because western media doesn't need it yet. Overtime we will see "primitivist rationalism" becoming an equaly valid lable to effectively offset "cospiracism". After all its just a war of lables.

Very insightful post.

[DominO123]

Um, "conspirationist"? You mean, conspiratorial. In any event, you show a gross misunderstanding of 'conspiracy' as a word and concept. Furthermore, ask yourself the question of "Who benefits?", as you watch the video of those Arabs with pasty white hands.

Doesn't make any sense. This does only benefit those against US occupation. If it was set by the US, it would have been set in a way that it would have happened before what happened to those prisoners not after. Those terrorists refer it as a vengence, which is a message that only profit their side, not the other way.

[Anonymouse]

Obviously you do not understand the issue of drawing attention from the American prison abuse case, and showing the enemy as being more heinous. Hence it is called psychological operations. In hindsight, this only benefits the U.S.

[DominO123]

Obviously you do not understand the issue of drawing attention from the American prison abuse case, and showing the enemy as being more heinous. Hence it is called psychological operations. In hindsight, this only benefits the U.S.

Oh, sure, it benefit, probably as much as the fact that the public polls for the support of the war have droped after the decapitation, the same way as those that droped during the vietnam war, after the US soldiers were brutally murdered.

[vava]

Domino jan, I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

 

Are you saying that the public support for the war has diminished since the video? I thought public support (in the US, naturally) for the war decreased as a result of the prison torture pictures. If anything, the video seemed to stem the ire of the American people resulting from the prison photos. In that case, the video was clearly to the advantage of the US administration's position.

[gurgen]

If it was set by the US, it would have been set in a way that it would have happened before what happened to those prisoners not after.

What the hell does this have to do with each other? The US likes the rest of the world not to think of them as a country that does not apply brutal revenge, they know nothing can 'justify' the treatment of the prisoners, and I believe that's not even the point.

It's merely a comparison: 'Look we may have treated the prisoners badly and all and it was wrong, but look at what those barbaric fundementalist muslims are doing!'

By bringing out this video the attention shifts from the prison to Berg and that's exactly what the Americans want.

[Jewish Friend]

I agree that the prison pics and the Berg pics together on the whole have a NEGATIVE affect on the support for the war. It has made me sick of the whole thing. I hope Iraq on june 30 asks us to withdraw and we oblige. This war was a big mistake. I was for it at first like many americans, but having been in the army during the Viet Nam war, I can't take this anymore. We need peace. Yid Kid

[DominO123]

Domino jan, I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

 

Are you saying that the public support for the war has diminished since the video? I thought public support (in the US, naturally) for the war decreased as a result of the prison torture pictures. If anything, the video seemed to stem the ire of the American people resulting from the prison photos. In that case, the video was clearly to the advantage of the US administration's position.

Vava, how could it be in the advantages of the US? Just imagine the reaction here in Canada, lets say the decapitation of a Canadian soldier or a Canadian citizen in the same position. What would the Canadian population say? I will tell what they will say, they will say:"Get hell out of here, it is not our war, we won't sacrify our children." The attention was turned out from the Iraqi prisoners yes! BUT!!! And this is the important point here, BUT!!! This video could only advantage the side of the US population that ask, why they will let their son being butchered like this, the same way it happened in Vietnam. The US had no advtanges of doing such a thing.

 

Imagine now, that you would want to do something to turn out the attention, when in the same position, why would you make it as if, it was a counter offensive to a previous action, to make it sound as a vengence? It does not make any sense. To the contrary, there is chances that the public will be even more disturbed, because they will say:"Look what happened as a result of the illtreatment of the Iraqi prisoners." At least, if there was no message about a vengence, and that those responsable of the illtreatment of prisoners would have said that they did that, because of the decapitation of a US citizen, THEN!!! We could doubt such a video.

 

Whatever or not Berg was already dead, has no consequences here, in that, if he was, it would not mean it was set by the US. The terrorists could have used someone they have already killed, since it will faciliate the decapitation, because of the coagulation of the blood.

Edited May 19, 2004 by Fadix

[DominO123]

What the hell does this have to do with each other? The US likes the rest of the world not to think of them as a country that does not apply brutal revenge, they know nothing can 'justify' the treatment of the prisoners, and I believe that's not even the point.

It's merely a comparison: 'Look we may have treated the prisoners badly and all and it was wrong, but look at what those barbaric fundementalist muslims are doing!'

By bringing out this video the attention shifts from the prison to Berg and that's exactly what the Americans want.

This is a simplistic non-calculated approch, by saying this, you are considering the US administration and the US citizens as more than dumbs.

 

Who talked about justification, this is about sentiments... the reaction of the US public opinion.

Edited May 19, 2004 by Fadix

[Arpa]

Does it matter that Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl who was murdered in Pakistan some time ago are both Jewish?

Of all the 300 million Americans a Jew goes to Pakistan to report(?) and another Jew goes to Iraq in search of work(?).

Mere coincidence? Or did they have another, perhaps primary mussion?

Have we noticed that since the Iraq debacle we don't see and here about the Israeli-Palestinian saga a million times a day while the entire Palestinian lands are cleansed and the population decimated virtually unnoticed.

 

And remember, the main immediate reason to invade Iraq was that the "man" had murdered his own people. You mean Kurds? When did the world care what happens to the Kurds? Ask the ten Million Kurds of Anatolia.

 

The other, even more immediate reason was that the "man" had WMDs and missiles that could reach not NY not LA but TelAvivthat.

An you are telling me that this war is on behalf of the US population?

Was not this war also to preserve and maintain the price of petroleum? Remember that Iraq was underpricing OPEC? And now that we have our hands on the wells in Kirkuk and Mosul... have you visited your neighborhood filling station lately?

Edited May 19, 2004 by Arpa

[DominO123]

I agree that the prison pics and the Berg pics together on the whole have a NEGATIVE affect on the support for the war. It has made me sick of the whole thing. I hope Iraq on june 30 asks us to withdraw and we oblige. This war was a big mistake. I was for it at first like many americans, but having been in the army during the Viet Nam war, I can't take this anymore. We need peace. Yid Kid

This is EXACTLY the point here. I don't see how the decapitation of a US citizen advantage the US, when for the US the only way to lose a war, is for its population to view their own die.

Edited May 19, 2004 by Fadix

[DominO123]

Does it matter that Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl who was murdered in Pakistan some time ago are both Jewish?

Of all the 300 million Americans a Jew goes to Pakistan to report(?) and another Jew goes to Iraq in search of work(?).

Mere coincidence? Or did they have another, perhaps primary mussion?

Have we noticed that since the Iraq debacle we don't see and here about the Israeli-Palestinian saga a million times a day while the entire Palestinian lands are cleansed and the population decimated virtually unnoticed.

But here again, the simple explanation would be. If the Islamist terrorists had in their hands prisoners they have ubducted, and among them there are Jews... is there more chances they kill those Jews than there is chances they kill the non-Jews? Of course yes! The correlation here could more be the fact that the terrorists will rather choose the Jews among the rest of their prisoners to kill.

[Jewish Friend]

I answered Arpa but accidentally it went in as a report. Can the admisistarer kinldly correct this and post the report here. Thank You. sorry! YidKid

 

 

 

EDIT: You can find your 'Report' HERE.

Edited May 19, 2004 by vava

[DominO123]

I answered Arpa but accidentally it went in as a report. Can the admisistarer kinldly correct this and post the report here. Thank You. sorry! YidKid

Happened with me in the past as well, Garo wondered what the hell I was trying to report. Just PM MosJan or Garo and tell them it is a mistake and that you want your post back.

[Jewish Friend]

Thanks. hopefuly it will get here, but basicaly I said most Amer-Jews like these two{Berg{Nick is Greek or Italian first name here} is half..Pearl intermarried.. are very liberal even pro Palestinian..especialy out in California. These have nothing to do with Israel. That{Aggressive actions in the teritories} is between Sharon and Bush, both of whom most Jews in Amer do not support including me, and neither do most Israelis in Sharons case..parliamentary elction allows the minority to rule at times. YidKid

[Jewish Friend]

Israel considers Iran and Syria their threat. They told Bush before the war that Iraq had no nuclear to speak since 1991.They only were concerned about chemical and biological. They couldn't care less about this war..other than that if it owrked syria would have been next. YidKid

[DominO123]

Israel considers Iran and Syria their threat. They told Bush before the war that Iraq had no nuclear to speak since 1991.They only were concerned about chemical and biological. They couldn't care less about this war..other than that if it owrked syria would have been next. YidKid

I disagree here. Israel won a lot with this war. It permitted the Israeli authority to "radicilise," by allegedly "fighting" terrorism and justifying their actions by using the US intervention as some sort of Jurisprudence. While the attention is turned on Iraqi war, Sharons administration has free hand.

Edited May 19, 2004 by Fadix

[Arpa]

Israel considers Iran and Syria their threat. They told Bush before the war that Iraq had no nuclear to speak since 1991.They only were concerned about chemical and biological. They couldn't care less about this war..other than that if it owrked syria would have been next. YidKid

Of course, there is tremendous pressure on the White House to target Iran and Syria next, or even simultaneously. However neither of the above have given a good reason for attack yet. Specially in the case of Syria Washington is going nuts and schizophrenic while on the one hand they profess that Syria has been forthcoming in combatting "terrorism" while on the other it keeps looking for slim evidence that Syria is breaching her border with Iraq to smuggle weapons and the so called "foreign insurgents".

I guess sooner or later, by hook or by crook there will be enough excuse to attack Damscus as the latter is an even more threat to TelAviv than Baghdad ever was. This is all based on the idiotic idea of some fundamentalists that the sedon coming will not happen until and unless Armageddon when the entire region is under the reign of the "chosen people".

 

Idiots!!

 

Why do we even need a second coming. What good has the first coming done?

The second coming, armageddon, judgement day is happening to millions of people every day who go to heaven or hell as the case may be. It is all the Gengis Khan syndrome who when he sensed that his end was near ordered his vizir to poison all the waters so every one would "go" with him, he could not stand the idea of people still living when he was dead.

 

Yes, dear YidKid, many Jews may be against all this but look at who gets to be PM between Mehachem Begin, Natanyau and Sharon. Whatewver happened to Ehud Barak? Btw he was in the news yesterday but I did not listen to what he was saying.

Edited May 19, 2004 by Arpa

[Jewish Friend]

As I was trying to say the radical orthodox swing the majority in Israel. It is a shame for many reasons.It is the same in many parlimentray elections in other countries.Thus, everyone kisses their butt to get elected.

 

As for the Fundamentalist Christians..I agree and was laughing at what you wrote..lol.....the Jews are not chosen and Jesus need not return. Let us all get together because we need each other. Shalom. Yid Kid

[Arpa]

As for the Fundamentalist Christians..I agree and was laughing at what you wrote..lol.....the Jews are not chosen and Jesus need not return. Let us all get together because we need each other. Shalom. Yid Kid

We usually laugh when we use such cliches as "more Catholic than the Pope". Yet look at these idiots aka Fundamental Evangelicals, they are a disgrace to Evangelicalism. They reaffirm the old cliche by being more Zionistic than the average Jew.

 

IDIOTS!!!

 

They are a disgrace when they caricaturize and trivialize Christianity with their hatefulness disguised as love and compassion and so called Christian Charity. Where is the charity when their hope and wish is that an entire region be incinerated just as Sodom and Gomorrah. The hell with them! They should go to Sodom and Gomorrah! Christians like them, who needs an anti-Christ!!??

[Anonymouse]

You know, people speak of these fundamentalist Christians like they're everywhere. I'm curious where do they live? I have never seen one, perhaps because I live in L.A. What states do they predominate?

[vava]

I answered Arpa but accidentally it went in as a report. Can the admisistarer kinldly correct this and post the report here. Thank You. sorry! YidKid

 

 

Here it is:

 

Have no fear. most american Jews are flaming liberals and perhaps a majority support Palestine over Israel.especially out in California.Berg was half Jewish{Nick is an Italian or Greek name usualy} and Pearl was married to non a non Jew and were hardly religious. They have nothing to do with Israel taking aggresive action.They were both do gooders. That{Aggressive Israeli action} is between Bush and his buddy Sharon..who most American Jews like myself dislike.BTW..probably most Israelis don't like current poliy either but Parliamenary government often lets the minority dictate. You can generalize all you want, but you are probalby way off mark. Yid Kid

[Arpa]

You know, people speak of these fundamentalist Christians like they're everywhere. I'm curious where do they live? I have never seen one, perhaps because I live in L.A. What states do they predominate?

In all the fifty atates.

Besides each of them having their TV and radio stations where millions upon millions of other idiots watch them, sadly enough many being naive and devout Christian grandmother types who take their words as if it were the "Gospel truth". Even more sad, many of those grandmothers send their last penny which they otherwise need to buy food or medicine.

They are once in a while given universal forum on network and cable TV to spew their venom.

I can probaly find them on the internet but I won't lest I throw up all over my keyboard. Do Falwell, Robertson, the most vicious prejudicial bigots et al ring a bell? It is disgusting how they lip the word "love" while their eyes are filled with hate. Hate, that is, towards all who do not conform to the narrow definition of a WASP, be they of another color or ancestry, excluding, of course the progeny of Abraham, Moses, David, and ... Jesus. Lest they are wriiten off as bastards (they are!), and risk the peril of being counted OUT as a scion of the "chosen".

 

BASTARDS!!

 

Do you think they acknowledge the Armenian as one of their own, even we had met Jesus Christ(ian) over a thousand years before they did?

Edited May 19, 2004 by Arpa

[bellthecat]

As I was trying to say the radical orthodox swing the majority in Israel. It is a shame for many reasons.It is the same in many parlimentray elections in other countries.Thus, everyone kisses their butt to get elected.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think it was radical orthodox Rabbis who were shooting Palestinian children taking in their washing, or using tanks shells and missiles to fire "warning shots" into crowds of civilians.

[Jewish Friend]

I was talking about the election of leaders and policy making..this includes all aspects of Israeli life beside defense..such as the definition of who is a Jew in the Law of Return, closing of stores on Saturday,etc.

Yid Kid