Iran01 Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 (edited) Here is another Armenian's commander in Persian army. http://www.armenianchurch.org/heritage/his...tan/lesson.html And another important person was a certain Armenian named Vasag Sewny. Vasag was what is called a marzbahn. No, that's not a candy. It's the name for commanders in Persian Armenia who were appointed by the king. Vasag was an ambitious marzbahn who wanted his fellow Armenians to join Persia, mostly so that he himself could be powerful. http://www.livius.org/da-dd/dadarshi/dadarshi01.html Dâdarši: name of an Armenian general serving under the Persian king Darius I the Great (522-486 BCE), known for his expedition along the Tigris to Armenia. Edited May 22, 2004 by Iran01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 And another important person was a certain Armenian named Vasag Sewny. Vasag was what is called a marzbahn. No, that's not a candy. It's the name for commanders in Persian Armenia who were appointed by the king. Not entirely unfamiliar with that. "In the year 489 (AD 1040), I, Ablgharib, marzipan of the Armenians, ..." http://www.virtualani.freeserve.co.uk/abughamrents/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 By reading you get better understanding of history! According to Professor A. Sh. Shahbazi : " Another elite cavalry group was the Armenian one, whom the Persians accorded particular honour" http://www.iranchamber.com/history/sassani...sanian_army.php (It seems to me the Armenian cavalry came next after the "the immortals" ! It is understandable why the Sassanids didnt like to lose Armenia. Since they had problem with the north east and nomadic tribes and the Roman on west side.) Found another Armenian words in Persian! Kust: side, district.... read more on page 39. http://www.sasanika.com/Shahrestan.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 Having born in Tehran but growing up in Armenia I learned to unlearn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 I hope it isnt bad memory! I was born in north east. There were a few Armenian families, maybe hundred.. mostly farmers , living there. My sister was friend to one of the Armenian girls. She used to visit our house sometimes for lunch... I was maybe 12-13 years old and liked her a lot. She (18-19 years old) knew that and used to tease me for that. It wasnt so good for my relation to girls for a long time Later when learned to drive used to visit an Armenian farmer to buy "haram" stuff: wine, wild swin.. He used to hunt wild swin in the area. Later at my first job had an Armenian co-worker. He wasnt Gods best child. He was realy ugly and bad minded. He was maybe 20 years older than me, and it tooks me a while to understand his mentality and how to handle him. I still can recall his strong accent : "baCHe mosalmUN chetOri?" (How are you muslim child? ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 Found another Armenian words in Persian! Kust: side, district.... read more on page 39. http://www.sasanika.com/Shahrestan.pdf i don't know about the origin, but this word is not widely used in modern armenian anymore. and when it is used, it is used as kusht. ... Ժամանակով Կարուն ճոն էր, Շունն էլ գըլխին գըդակ չուներ, Միայն, գիտեմ ոչ՝ որդիանց որդի Ճանկել էր մի գառան մորթի: Եկավ մի օր, ձմեռվան մըտին, Կատվի կուշտը տարավ մորթին: ... Հ. Թումանյան, Շունն Ու Կատուն, 1886 թ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 (edited) i don't know about the origin, but this word is not widely used in modern armenian anymore. and when it is used, it is used as kusht. I have never seen it be used in modern Persian but it is there in dictionary as "koste" ( region). Anyway it says "Kuste" : Armenian loand word , "kois" (side), "koshte" (the waist, the belly). Another interesting word is "narseh" , "narses" or "narsesh"! Is it in use in modern Armenian? (It should means : son or male.) Edited May 22, 2004 by Iran01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 i don't know about the origin, but this word is not widely used in modern armenian anymore. and when it is used, it is used as kusht. Found another Armenian word in Persian! Kust: side, district.... read more on page 39. http://www.sasanika.com/Shahrestan.pdf Mais, au contraire Herr Harut we use it everyday. We have to be careful because here we are splitting hair, so to speak. There are two "kust"s in the Iranian language, it may be confusing because of inadequate fonts. One is the plain S and the other with the S with a diacritical above that in fact will be read as "kusht". (I have to be careful here as well as some spellings may seem offensive to those who know Farsi.) We must also tread cautiously because when it is all said and done both words may somehow point to the same direction( no pun intended ) Let us first lay aside the one that at times is spelled "kusht". As we can see from the quote above it is talking about the "cat's abdomen". It may be a bit off the mark but it will do since in the Armenian the word is usually used to refer to the abdomen in usages such "kshtanal/to satiate", "ankusht/unsatiated/still hungry". It is supposed to be from the Pahlavi that in a way refers to the "side" except that in this case the anatomical side as in rib that usually appears in the Armenian as "kogh", from which "koghm" which is "side" in the directional sense. Since we use the latter to mean rib/side kusht has moved a little inwards and it refers to the stomach area hence its common use as kusht/well fed v ankusht/unfed. As to "kust" with the plaine S, it does indeed mean side in the broader sense except that as a rule the last letter has been dropped and it appears as "kus". I hope I am offending anybody. It appears not so much in itself but in many compound words like qarakusi/four sided/square, kusaktsutyun/faction/political party, kusakron/celibate etc. The first two are kind of self explanatory since a square has four sides/kuses, a faction is that has stepped aside, but to undestand the last one we have to invoke another variation, namley "kuys/virgin/celibate" based on the assumption that a celibate, person of either gender has chosen to step aside of the society and chosen a life on the "side"lines. As to the use of the word as "region" consider such as "kusakal/governor" which in fact may mean the governor of a side/separate region. There may be many more examples but suffice it to say that some have suggested that "kus/kust" as in side (of a square) may have been derived from the Persian "kosheh" that means "corner". :) Keep quiet Sip or else I will have yout surname changed to Kir-a-kos-ian. :) Btw. Dear Iran01 there are many more words and names in that site that are common to both Armenian and Persian. Btw. The Arabs use the k** word in the same sense. Is that wher the English slang "cuss" comes from?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 Arpa, that is very true what you say about kusht/ankusht. It's still an up and alive word in modern Armenian. At least in my family About kust being side/corner etc., it got me thinking. Would the word "kust" and "Küste" in Dutch and German respectively, and its English form "coast" come from "kust"? Sounds very plausible. By the way my dictionary says for kusht (second entry): 1) aside, side; 2) near. Kusht kshti: next to each other. By the way, I'd like to move this topic to language if everyone is ok with it. Seems more appropriate there than here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 Arpa !!! you are the most strange Armenian I have ever seen! The man who wrote that article is Prof at Shiraz University. Here is a list of the board at that site: http://www.sasanika.com/board.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiB Posted May 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 > By the way, I'd like to move this topic to language if everyone is ok with it. Seems more appropriate there than here. I agree. By the way, later I will write a more detailed post concerning the points you guys rised. :-) MiB P.S. The word kusht in Erzrum dialekt of Armenian language (now spoken in Javakhk, for example) still is widely used and means side, to be at something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 Sorry Arpa ! you are right. Zarathushtrians have a ceremony when they "baptize", which is called : "Koshti" ! They tie a small rope around the belly : http://www.oshihan.org/images/Belarus_SedrehPooshi1.jpg (in Persian script : http://www.oshihan.org/Pages/sedrehpooshi.htm ) I was reading on article by Mr Jamali and according to him it symbolise rebirth, virgin......etc. ( In Persian script : http://www.jamali-online.com/masti_ve_diva...eshe_shad_2.htm ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 Do I see a coupla WASP's in there? I thought Zoroastrians did not accept converts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 Yes, they do accept, but: In Iran because of persecution risk they dont accept, even the muslim who leave islam he/she will be punish by death. ( Ofcourse because of Islamic "culture" many Iranians DO not better and think they are "Gavur", dirty .... . But new wave of awakeness is on the way and for ex in Sweden and Belgium new Zarathushtrianism is started by some new converts: http://www.bozorgbazgasht.com/become-zartoshti.html "....If you wish to learn or convert in Zoroastrianism you may contact us by E-Mail and we will arrange the conversion service free of charge no matter where your location is..." In india, some of the Parsi do not accept converts. I dont know why. I guess they are a small comunity they behave "strange"..or since they took refuge in India from Islams persecution ..they show respect to Hinduism..etc. I dont know. Otherwise outside Iran they DO accept converts,: RUSSIA : http://www.oshihan.org/images/SEDREH_POOSHI_RUSSIA2.jpg Belarus : http://www.oshihan.org/Pages/Belarus.htm sanJose : http://www.oshihan.org/Pages/group_sedreh_pooshi_sanJose.htm Vancouver : http://www.oshihan.org/Pages/VanSedrehPooshi.htm London : http://www.raasti.com/sedre1.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 Yeah, OK. I guess it doesn't help that my only contact with Zoroastrians was a Parsee. I had found it strange that for a religion that endorsed such things as right, good, justice, etc., they were being so ethnocentric. This only contact of mine had said that children born of a marriage of one Parsee and one non-Zoroastrian would be accepted so long as it was the father that was a Zoroastrian. I had said, Gee, how do you know what the mom brings into wedlock?? He had said that in that sense the Jewish tradition of taking the mother as basis certainly made more sense. Hadn't thought about it that way. :| Anyway - anyone know of the Zoroastrian fire temple at Ani? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted May 24, 2004 Report Share Posted May 24, 2004 http://www.sasanika.com/Sasanian%20History...0Sasanika-2.pdf page 11: Bazmok/Bazm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted May 24, 2004 Report Share Posted May 24, 2004 (edited) http://www.sasanika.com/Sasanian%20History...0Sasanika-2.pdf page 11: Bazmok/Bazm Yes, Iran # 1 we do use that word, however with a twist. Thank you. As I mentioned before in that article there are so many more words and names that are common to both of our languages as there are historical ones such as Anahit, Khosrow, Trdat and others. We will leave them aside and perhaps treat them under a separate proper topic. Oh! btw there is another word in that same paragraph which is also used in Armenian, "barj" commonly written as "barts" means pillow. Too bad that site does not allow copy and paste, unless I don't know how. That word "bazm/bazum" is not used in the sense of feast in Armenian but it is somehow related. When I staretd my search I was hoping that it would somehow lead me to the other usage of "bazum" but it turned out one "bazum" was not related to the other. The other "bazum/bazoum" I am referring to is its use as "multiple", my hope was that since the common usage in Armenian of your word of "bazm" has to do with "sit" I was hoping that in its use of "sitting on a cushion, i.e. "reclining/spreading" would eventually appear as spread/multiply/grow, but that was not the case. As mentioned above in Armenian the word appears in the verb form "bazmil/to sit". We have another word for "sit", "nstil". There is a slight difference and a nuance, while nstil simply means to sit bazmil on the other hand refers to sitting in a ceremonial fashion, i.e. at a feast. As mentioned above we do use the word more specifically to mean ceremonial sitting as a king would (spread) at a banquet table/sufra, we also use it to mean to sit on a cushion hence the Armenian word for cushion-bazmots. As to the other "bazoum" that we use as "multiple", it derives from the PIE*** "bzng'hu" (don't ask me how) which in fact means many, wide, large so our use as in bazmativ/numerous, bazmutyun/multitude, bazmapatkel/to multiply, bazmapatik/many folds(as used in bazmapatkel) etc. is from the fact that the word has been remanded to the status of an adjunct to stress the superlative nature of a word, in other words it is a kind of a superlative prefix as the English suffix -est, or the Greek prefix "mega". ***No Sip, it is not a dessert Edited May 24, 2004 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted May 24, 2004 Report Share Posted May 24, 2004 BTW, Is there any Armenian word for "makeup"? Something as "bazak"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted May 24, 2004 Report Share Posted May 24, 2004 BTW, Is there any Armenian word for "makeup"? Something as "bazak"? Rouge Or else kosmetika or nerk (paint), like shrtnanerk (lipstick). I don't know, I don't use much make-up. Grim is more make-up for artists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted May 24, 2004 Report Share Posted May 24, 2004 Rouge Or else kosmetika or nerk (paint), like shrtnanerk (lipstick). I don't know, I don't use much make-up. Grim is more make-up for artists. All of the above. The one word that I know is "shpar" which, (I looked it up) is supposed to be from the Assyrian "shappir", literally beautiful. It is commonly used to mean rouge whrther for the face or the lips. It is also used as verb as in "shparvil". No, no "bazak". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted May 24, 2004 Report Share Posted May 24, 2004 Rouge ..or other fine French words are used in modern Persian too. But I was thinking of "pure" words. For example "ârâyesh" in modern Persian means makeup. It comes from older word , "ârâstan" which means to trim, furnish... "Bazak" isnt used in modern Persian so much. Btw, why do you chop/chomp first vowel in Armenian: shrtnanerk , nstil... Is it the way the word is pronounced or has it to do with Armenian alphabet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Knight Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 Bazm? Well bazmativ means MANY, bazm+a+tiv(number)-many numbers. As opposed to shat which I guess would stand for - a lot. Bazmoc means couch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Knight Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 Makeup in Armenian would be dimahardarank. Dim comes from demk, compare to dimagits, "a" being a shaghkap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 Too bad that site does not allow copy and paste, unless I don't know how. Do you mean how to copy/paste from PDF-format? On the pdf-menu you have the icon "T". Activate it if necessary, then mark the text and right click and copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 Armenian is indeed a very interesting language from Persian perspective. I was looking at this site ( In Persian script) : http://armanestan.persianblog.com There is a section about Armenian and Persian languages.... The word "arzân" , "ârzhan" : While in modern Persian it means "cheap", in Armenian it means "suitable, fit". But sometimes in prayer in Persian people still say: God thank you making your gifts "arzan" to us..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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