Iranisms In Armenian Language?

[MiB]

Dear forum members,

 

Can a specialist share his opinion about the following two topics?

 

1. As it is well known in Armenian language we have many iranisms (=words adopted from an Iranian language). But we know that Iran is a collection of sister nations (Pars, Media, etc.). Sometimes these languages differ significantly. So now my question is from WHICH Iranian language has Armenian adopted the MOST number of words? Has somebody studied this?

 

2. Have Iranian languages adopted Armenian words? If yes, do you have examples? Has somebody studied this topic, too?

 

All best wishes to the members of the forum,

 

MiB

[Teutonic Knight]

The majority of Iranian loanwords date from the Parthian period since the Armenian ruling dynasty was Parthian even though they were Armenianized and remained long after their relatives were outsted by the Sassanians in Persia- the Arsacids. You can see the obvious leftovers in roots such as "asht", "azd", "it", "er" etc. Also tons of names like Vartan, Anahit, Artavazd, Mher/Mihr, Trdat, Ervand, Khosrov etc.

[MiB]

Dear Teutonic Knight,

 

Thank you very much for your post. The reason why I posted that question in THAT form was the following text I recently found on the web. It is in Russian, so to be sure I am giving its brief English translation below:

 

Дело в том, что язык (т.н. древне-персидский) Ахеменидской (Мидийско-Персидской) империи по данным письменных источников является северо-иранским, то же самое признано и в отношении пехлеви (средне-персидский или парфянский), а вот позднее северные наречия сдали позиции южным - собственно языку персов. Так как это близкородственные языки, то неиранистам трудно определить различия, что даже почти до ХХ столетия оказало влияние ( персидскими языками долго считали мидийские). По характеру заимствованных из иранских языков слов в армянском ясно видно, что они больше мидийские, чем персидские. Но в научной литературе их принято называть общим термином - иранизмы.

 

Brief translation:

“In the times of Achemenid Empire or Parthian Empire the dominant language of the state on Iran was the language spoken in Media, and not the languages of southern or eastern parts of Iran. Only some time later the role of Persian language (Southern Iran) got larger and larger. Investigations of Iranisms in Armenian language show that they are more Median than Persian.”

 

What do you think? Does this seem reasonable?

 

Thank you,

 

MiB

[Iran01]

Dear MiB

 

Iranian langauges and Armenian have probably a longer common history than just to Persian. It came as surprise to me that Armenians pre-Christians mythology is like Iranians one:

Aramazd , Ahuramazda

Mihr, Mehr

Anahid, Anahita

Tir, Tir

The above is pre-Persian-empire-time. We know even during the first Persian empire Achemenid , there were religion, language ... freedom.

 

 

What I have read , the first time Persian empire systematicly tried to impose its religion ( Zarathushtriansim) on Armenia was during Sasanian. It happened when Armenia converted as first nation to Christianity.

 

The next time Iran was involved in Armenia, was during Safavids time when Iranians converted to Shiaism. It was as a last attempt to stop the Sunni Othomans.

 

What I have understood the majority of loan words are from middle Persian.

 

I am sure that there are some Armenians word in Persian since many Armenians

professionals worked at Achemenid empire and some generals in the army were Armenians as Dâdarši. It means even Armenian soldiers were employed at the empire.

 

We know that during the Arab-Persian wars Armenians were the only nation to send aid to Persia ...

Today we have many Armenian heritage in Iranian Azarbaijan province...

During the Shia Safavid the Armenians had specefic rights : didnt pay taxes, got start capital from the Shah, Islamic-non-muslim-law was not implemented on Armenians..etc

Even today Armenian as languages is the only language taught at schools beside Persian...

The Tati (Persian) of republic of Azerbaijan , about 1-2 million people, are from Sasanids time. Today a handfull of them speak Persian , the majority speak Turkic!( http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magaz...sgal_lahij.html )

They and Talishi ( another Iranian tribe) in Republic of Azerbaijan did/do live

very close to Armenians in that area.

 

 

 

All above means the exchanges can not be isolated to a certain time of history.

Edited May 9, 2004 by Iran01

[MiB]

Dear Iran01,

 

Thank you very much for your helpful post. I am very happy to see you at this Armenian forum!

 

You are right: many Iranisms in Armenian language are very old and they come from pre-Persian, pre-Parthian or pre-Median times. So it is impossible to connect them with a given region of Iran.

 

By the way, what do you think about the second question I posted above? It is the question that I cited above in Russian language (in blue color) and then translated into English (in red color). Thank you in advance for your answer.

 

---

 

I am very glad to hear your kind words about Armenians in Iran. Yes, my own experience with Iranian guys is very much positive. Iran is our friend and is our (as a well known Armenian national ideologist said) elder brother.

:-)

 

All the best,

 

MiB

Edited May 9, 2004 by MiB

[Iran01]

By the way, what do you think about the second question I posted above? It is the question that I cited above in Russian language (in blue color) and then translated into English (in red color). Thank you in advance for your answer.

It is probably true.

 

Medes were first in Iran and tried to create some kind of kingdom and they did live closer to Armenians.

 

Persian came later but they managed to create the first Iranian empire.

The old Persians were tolerant people, they used known languages of that time: Ilami, Babylonia......

All the inscription from Achaemenid time are in other languages but not in Persian ! Some of Achaemenid were half Persian/Median.

 

The next kingdom, the Parthians were from north east, but they had Greeks heritage and employed Greeks alphabet..they spoke Persian at court..

Parthians had greater exchanges with Armenians. Many inter-marriage were done to strong the connection between empire-provinces. They had several official langauges.

 

It is first at Sasanians time that Zarathushtrianism and Persism play a center role.

It is probably because of the Parthians Greeks-heritage-trace and the new Roman empire and its new religion: Christianity.

 

But once again it is at this time Persians ,during Sasanians, move to Aran ( todays Rep of Azerbaijan) and lived close to Armenians. As said they are many Tati today, around 1-2 million in rep of Azerbaijan. But only 2-30000 of them speak Persian, The rest are " Turkified". This process has been ongoing then 200 AC !

 

It is natural that people exchanges words when they live close to each other.....

[Arpa]

CAUTION!! THIS POST MAY BE OFFENSIVE TO SOME AND MAY CONTAIN SOME GRAPHIC LANGUAGE.

 

From all indications the commonality of the Armenian and Persian languages may point to Pahlavi, based on the fact that the latter may still have traces of the original native language. A task too difficult to tackle since more than half of what is called Persian today is Arabic. Duhhhh! Is not the Persian language supposed to be IndoEuropean? Is Arabic IE? Not even close.

As far as language is concerned, we won't even talk about it!

Not until, that is those ayatollaic mohammedan morons realize and admit that they "threw away the baby with the bathwater".

You think Armenians are stupid?

At times we may be.

Yes we did sort of "threw out the baby with the bathwater" when we trashed our pre Christian culture, when we discovered that new fangled idiotic faith, but at least we had such wise people as Sahak and Mesrop who saw the danger and created a unique script to stem the imminent loss of what remained of our native culture. Were it not for Mesrop today we, if there were any of "we" left would be either writing in the Assyrian or Greek alphabet.

Did we adopt Hebrew just so we could read that idiotic BOOK?

What did those Persian mohhamedan morons do?

Besides losing part of their (male)anatomy, they trashed their entire culture and scripture and adopted a (semitic) script which is totally unsuited to their IE language.

Today there is no such thing as a Persian language. Half of Iran practically speaks Arabic and the other half speaks some kind of Turkish.

How stupid can one be?

One only wishes that they were a little more stupid and carried that (male)anatomical modification a bit further and in so doing forfeited their privilege of procreation forever.

Go ahead, promote your ayatollah culture.

We will only talk about our linguistic kinship after you decide to get back to your native IndoEuropean culture.

Ther may still be hope.

You are welcome to use the Armenian Alphabet that has a symbol for every sound you need and more. Maybe then we can speak in a ligible and comprehensible way.

 

No. We won't talk about the subject until you realize and admit that your homeland is not Mecca but Parskastan right next to Hayastan.

 

ASide from that. Yes, Armenian and Persian(whatever that may mean) may coincide about 50% of the time. I may be able to cite examples but I won't until the Persians revert back to their original culture and forget all that ayatollaism.

Edited May 10, 2004 by Arpa

[MiB]

Dear Iran01,

 

Thank you for your explanations to the question about Media I asked. Now I have a more detailed picture. But, whatever the dominant language in Iran be (Median, Persian, Parthian, etc.), for me Iran is one “civilizational area” in which various Iranian nations and tribes ruled without changing the main “concept”. That is, they were different fragments of one common “carpet”.

 

Can I ask you one more question please? Earlier you mentioned that some Armenian words (mainly related to some professional terms) were adopted by Persian language. Can you please give me a list of such words? Or, if the list is long, please give me a link to a webpage where I can gather further information.

 

---

 

By the way, you mentioned Tat (Pars) and Talish people which are mostly "Turkified". Recently I found a few websites of Talishs and Tats in which they discuss their national problems (mostly related to the problem of assimilation). Some of them are pretty much “nationalist”, and they dream of a Talish national state. Others (the majority, I guess) think of some kind of cultural and/or administrative national autonomy inside Azerbaijan Republic (Aran). These sites mostly are in Russian language. I guess, it will be good if they open English (or even Persian) sections so that the Persian guys can take part in their discussions. Here is an URL: www.talishica.org There are other sites, too.

 

Another interesting issue is that the more you study the population of Aran, the more you see that almost everybody there is a turkified member of a non-Turk nation (Tat, Talish, Pars, Lezgin, Kurd, etc.). Even the currently ruling dynasty of Alievs are Kurds (and it seems that in Azerbaijan everybody knows that!!). As very many people from Aran say, the “pure Turks” are 15-20% approximately.

 

In Soviet times this generated almost no discomfort for non-Turk population in Azerbaijan Soviet Republic because in Soviet times all nations were equal (well, almost equal), and because in Soviet times the ideology of panturkism was prohibited. In contrast with this, now the official policy of Azerbaijan Republic is very pro-Turk. So many “former” Tats, Talishs, Lezgins, etc. do have some strange feelings, so to say...

I understand that this all sounds like Armenian propaganda. But I have collected all this info from Azeri sites written by them. :-)

 

All the best,

 

Tigran

Edited May 10, 2004 by MiB

[MiB]

Dear Arpa,

 

Thank you for your post, too. I 80% disagree with you. However, I ask you not to post that sort of ideas here because this thread is about a very clearly defined topic indicated above. It simply is not good when every Aremnian thread contains all the stuff from “Haik and Bel” to “R. Kocharian vs A. Geghamian” thing...

:-)

 

Please...

 

All the best,

 

Tigran

[KnightOfArmenia]

Honestly, many of the words that we believe are "Iranian" have more to do with Indo-European. For example, many people believe that "stan" is taken from the Persians, and that it is disgraceful that the name of our nation is "Hayastan." Actually, "stan" is an Indo-european root that has stayed on (funny especially since the Persians don't really use "stan" except when describing other places).

 

Other than the religious aspects of Zoroastrianism, many of those things have more to do with the ancient language than with modern Iranian (even without its Arabic additions).

[koko]

Originally we used many common words as we are close indo-europan nations.

And that is not IRAN/Iranian, but Persian.

Acutally some of them the armenians still use that the persians have abondened and are not in use anymore in the persian vocabulary they could have been replaced with arabic words.

Edited May 11, 2004 by koko

[Arpa]

When towards the end of the 19th c. we were just getting comfortable enough to tackle in culture and the arts, when Armenian linguistics became a passion we all of a sudden realized that our IE language had much in common with the Persian and we began to rediscover our long lost words in the Iranian languages such as Pahlavi etc. In other words when we had neglected a large part of our language and corrupted it with loans from Europe, Arabia and even Turkish we realized that the roots were preserved in the Persian. And now that Persian has been corrupted (with over 50% Arabic and European)to the point where it is unrecognizable it is time for them to search the roots in our language.

Let me repeat here, even if Tigran may yell at me again, as long as the Persians (Iranians) stick to their totally unsuited script the similarity in our languages will be difficult to recognize. Simply said, our laguage is IE and so is their's supposed to be but why do they insist on using Semitic script, i.e linked letters v the Indo European detached ones. Why do they insist on writing from right to left while all IE scripts are left to right.

What hurts most is that the Persians constantly harassed us, they weakened us so much that we beacme easy prey to the "wolves" and other beasts of prey. They constantly harassed us to adopt and stick to their religion while they went and totally abandonned their own religion and subscribed to the world's most reidiculously primitive one.

 

I don't care if some people will be angry, they cannot be as angry as I now that looking back I can see how we have been duped, harassed, deceived and massacred for sticking to our heritage. We could have done what the Persians did, become moslems and avoid being genocided.

 

As always, liek our ancestors have said "shun@ hisheh payt@ qasheh"! Now that the Persians have become our only allies, our virtual lifeline to the world we should still watch our backs.

History can always repeat itself only if we let it.

 

PS. OK Tigran, I get the impression that you may know about the commonality of both of our languges. Let us begin to cite them.

[Iran01]

Dear Iran01,

 

Can I ask you one more question please? Earlier you mentioned that some Armenian words (mainly related to some professional terms) were adopted by Persian language. Can you please give me a list of such words? Or, if the list is long, please give me a link to a webpage where I can gather further information.

 

---

 

By the way, you mentioned Tat (Pars) and Talish people which are mostly "Turkified". Recently I found a few websites of Talishs and Tats in which they discuss their national problems (mostly related to the problem of assimilation). Some of them are pretty much “nationalist”, and they dream of a Talish national state. Others (the majority, I guess) think of some kind of cultural and/or administrative national autonomy inside Azerbaijan Republic (Aran). These sites mostly are in Russian language. I guess, it will be good if they open English (or even Persian) sections so that the Persian guys can take part in their discussions. Here is an URL: www.talishica.org There are other sites, too.

 

 

 

I understand that this all sounds like Armenian propaganda. But I have collected all this info from Azeri sites written by them. :-)

 

All the best,

 

Tigran

Dear MiB

 

For ex the word "derafsh" ( flag) must be in use in todays Armenian!

If I am not wrong it is an Armenian word!

Today we use other words for flag in moder Persian. But "derafsh" is making a comeback in modern Persian!

Anyway if you are interested contact Mr Vardan Voskanian in Armenia. He is teacher at some Armenian university. Search the net you will find about his email etc.

Other man is Mr Zartosht Sotudeh. He knows a lot about Iranian mythology and languages.. and is from Iranian Azarbaijan.

http://www.raasti.com/enewindex.htm

editor@raasti.com

 

 

Yes Aran ( rep of Azerbaijan) has a long complicated history.

There have been and are movement from Talish people as late as 1993, I guess, to create a Talish republic inside rep of Azerbaijan. The Talishi are much closer to Iranian border and concentrated in same area but Tati people are all over the republic. Anyway because of the current situation the mullahs think firstly of thier religion then of the national interest

Actually what you said is not exactly an Armenian propaganda. It is a fact and reality. There are still people of Iranian origin in republic of Azerbaijan who are forced to deny thier heritage.

 

best wishes

[Iran01]

CAUTION!! THIS POST MAY BE OFFENSIVE TO SOME AND MAY CONTAIN SOME GRAPHIC LANGUAGE.

 

From all indications the commonality of the Armenian and Persian languages may point to Pahlavi, based on the fact that the latter may still have traces of the original native language. A task too difficult to tackle since more than half of what is called Persian today is Arabic. Duhhhh! Is not the Persian language supposed to be IndoEuropean? Is Arabic IE? Not even close. .

 

 

You are welcome to use the Armenian Alphabet that has a symbol for every sound you need and more. Maybe then we can speak in a ligible and comprehensible way.

it was more than offensive!

 

First of all , yes the modern persian spoken by mullahs are more than 50% Arabic.

But the language spoken by people, specially on country side , I would say, has less than 10% loanword.

 

Secondly , it is very easy for a true Iran-lover to learn speak and write PURE Persian. For ex myself can switch between 95% pure Persian and 75% pure persian..depending on who is listening, reading.

 

And the question is if YOU can do the same in your language?

 

What goes for the Armenian Alphabet! why not. If it can serve Persian language and not damage it as Arabic alphabet do.

Have you any site where I can download the keybord and font? Is it supported in IE?

There has been talk about replacing Arabic alphabet by Latin and recently with Avestan alphabet!. People are sensetive so I DONT think Armenian alpahet will get response among Iranian. The same goes for Latin alphabet. People think the modified Arabic alphabet IS Persian.

 

 

For the rest of your post, cool down.

ps

Parskastan sounds good but Iran will never become "Stan".

Edited May 20, 2004 by Iran01

[Iran01]

For example, many people believe that "stan" is taken from the Persians, and that it is disgraceful that the name of our nation is "Hayastan." Actually, "stan" is an Indo-european root that has stayed on (funny especially since the Persians don't really use "stan" except when describing other places).

I dont know whatever it has Persian root..but it has a old trace in Irans history.

It comes from "istadan" ( stay). And is used both in old Persian and much more in modern Persian: Dabestan ( primary school) , dabirestan ( high school), golestan ( garden), farhangestan ( institute).....

There are old Persian books with names such as "neyrangestan" (magicplace)

 

best wishes

Edited May 20, 2004 by Iran01

[Arpa]

There are many sites, each a little different, some better than others.

I think this is one of the better, it is clear and complete. Please disregard the western style, it is incorrect and corrupted, and since Iran is next to the so called eastern Armenia it is better that you consider the eastern style which is exactly as it was intended to be by Mashtots the creator of Armenian alphabet.

You will notice that it contains every letter and every sound that the Persian language needs and more. No modifications, no diacritical marks, necessary and as a bonus, unlike that semitic script that Farsi uses at the present it has real vowels.

Note that Armenian is written from left to right like all the other IndoEuropean scripts. Some claim than Persian is an IE language, but it is hard to see with with more than half of the language with Semitic.

Also note that Armenian has some letters that will not be found in Latin, such as the guttural sounds like GH and KH that Persaian also has.

 

Enjoy.

 

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/armenian.htm

 

Would it not be wonderful if two neighbors could read right and understand each other's language without any acrobatics.

 

NB. Also please ignore the "ou". There is no such thing in the original classical alphabet. It is not a letter it is diphthong and it is unnecessary. It would be tantamount to list diphthongs like ch, th, sh, sch, wh etc. as part of the English alphabet.

Edited May 21, 2004 by Arpa

[Teutonic Knight]

If you remove all the Persian and the few Caucasian loanwords Armenian will sound pretty much like Greek. Eventually this will happen, if there is ever a nationalist government around.

 

Drosh is a Persian word, not an Armenian word used by Persians.

 

I think It will be great if Persians start using Avestan. It's a beautiful script of great importance and it's their OWN!

Edited May 21, 2004 by Teutonic Knight

[Stormig]

If you remove all the Persian and the few Caucasian loanwords Armenian will sound pretty much like Greek.

Convince me.

[Iran01]

There are many sites, each a little different, some better than others.

I think this is one of the better, it is clear and complete. Please disregard the western style, it is incorrect and corrupted, and since Iran is next to the so called eastern Armenia it is better that you consider the eastern style which is exactly as it was intended to be by Mashtots the creator of Armenian alphabet.

You will notice that it contains every letter and every sound that the Persian language needs and more. No modifications, no diacritical marks, necessary and as a bonus, unlike that semitic script that Farsi uses at the present it has real vowels.

Note that Armenian is written from left to right like all the other IndoEuropean scripts. Some claim than Persian is an IE language, but it is hard to see with with more than half of the language with Semitic.

Also note that Armenian has some letters that will not be found in Latin, such as the guttural sounds like GH and KH that Persaian also has.

 

Enjoy.

 

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/armenian.htm

 

Would it not be wonderful if two neighbors could read right and understand each other's language without any acrobatics.

 

NB. Also please ignore the "ou". There is no such thing in the original classical alphabet. It is not a letter it is diphthong and it is unnecessary. It would be tantamount to list diphthongs like ch, th, sh, sch, wh  etc. as part of the English alphabet.

 

It was cool to get familiar with Armenian alphabet.

The eastern Armenian alphabet is missing the long a "â" !

(Have you heard Iranians say: " I am from Iraaaaan, I speak Faaaarsi" " )

It wouldnt work on other langauges/dialects neither such as: Kurdi, Lori, Taleshi....

Since many of those dialects have extended wovel system: î, ê, ô, û..

 

I dont think Armenian alphabet would be accepted by Iranians. Even today if you say thier modified alphabet is Arabic, they get "insulted". The same goes for Latin even thought they use it on the net!!! I think in long run Latin will win. In short run, if you want to force people, Avestan alphabet would be easier for people to accept.

 

Anyway your are on your on trace: Indo-European here and Semetic there and Persian some where ...

It seems to me you are interested in to be able to read Persian.

Here you have a pure persian dictionary. In English/Persian and the Persian words are transliterated into Latin alphabet.

 

http://iranianlanguages.com/dictionary.php?eng-per

Edited May 21, 2004 by Iran01

[Arpa]

It was cool to get familiar with Armenian alphabet.

The eastern Armenian alphabet is missing the long a "â" !

(Have you heard Iranians say: " I am from Iraaaaan, I speak Faaaarsi" " )

It wouldnt work on other langauges/dialects neither such as: Kurdi, Lori, Taleshi....

Since many of those dialects have extended wovel system: î, ê, ô, û..

How would it be any different from now when you have to use a million diacritical signs and symbols. We do use long a not so much in common usage but to stress it as "a~kh/a~h/o~h" etc. as in "ala~s". The symbol goes over the letter rather than beside.

Btw. I can read Far si even if I cannot understand it fully but when my Persian friends hear me they laugh because it sounds Arabic.

Of course it would be a most embarassing insult for one champion of a religion that they did not invent to borrow the script of another champion of another infidel religion that they did not invent either. But adopting the script of another (latin)infidel culture would be OK since, if it is good enough for the Turk it must good enough...

I'm sure you know what sarcasm is.

Edited May 21, 2004 by Arpa

[Teutonic Knight]

Armenians from Iran speak like this: Mameeeen babeeeeen daneeeeeeeeen? Inchbes eeeeeeeeeeeeeees?

lol

It's like they sing

[Iran01]

Arpa

what is your background? Are you born in Iran or ..?

[MiB]

Dear Iran01,

 

Thank you very much for your post and for your help.

 

1. The word “derafsh” sounds rather old Armenian. The new Armenian form is “drosh”. And, in general, in many old Armenian words the letters av, af turn to o when that word over time gets transformed into newer Armenian.

 

2. I understand your point about Talish and Tat (=Parsi) people in Aran. Recently I read some of their websites. Their situation seems to be very hard indeed. Assimilation seems to be a very hard process for a handful of nationally-oriented Tats and Talishs.

A site I recently found is: www.Talishica.org (it is mostly in Russian, but you can open an English thread in their Forum...)

Very interestingly, recently a Talish guy wrote there: “And where are our Iranis? Why don’t they help us?”. Very hard to read that indeed....

 

3. Well, I too find Arpa’s post too offensive and inappropriate. Whatever the Persians do and whichever other alphabet they choose (if they choose another one) it is not our business to “illuminate” them and to suggest our alphabet. Even if the Armenian alphabet serves Persian language and its dialects very well, Iran need not accept our alphabet because the latter is too national, and historically and “psychologically” is connected with Armenians. The old alphabet of Avesta, or the newer Pehlavi alphabet are the best candidates. Saying this we should bear in mind that it can be a very dangerous thing to change the alphabet in a country like Iran. For, currently Islam is one of the main unifying factors of polytechnic Iran! So if you switch to Avestan alphabet, then the Turks of Tabriz may wish to switch to the Turkish pseudo-Latin alphabet... So take care...

 

All the best,

[Iran01]

Dear MiB

 

Thank you for your friendly words.

 

Yes , I know Talishi/Tati have hard time, I know they , specially the Talishi are very aware of thier heritage. Indeed they are very gentle and friendly people.

I checked the site and read the English section and could see their hearts beats for thier culture. Thier mythology / culture is closer to Armenia then to Baku!

They are a very aceint people.

 

What goes for Iranian Azari, yes there are a few Panturks who day and night insult Irans past and lie a lot about the history. But they are few. The majority of Iranian Azari are IRANIAN. Just to undertand how Iranian Azari think, if you can read Persian , this single thread at this forum which is very popular among Iranian is in 110 pages !

http://www.goftmaan.com/forums/showthread....88&page=1&pp=30

A few Panturks day and night lie there and those who defend Iran are Iranian Azari.

 

Yes a strange and dangoures time we are going to meet. Islam or more correctly Shiaism has done its job. Right know it is killing Iran. What ever happen , Irans Azarbaijan will never never be aparat from Iran. It is too compilicated. Maybe south part or east part get apart but not Azarbaijan.

Edited May 21, 2004 by Iran01

[Arpa]

Offensive?

I think not!

Provocative?

Maybe!

Would I be offended if you were to tell me to forget this Jesus gobbledigook and get back to basics?

No!

Why?

Mainly because we/I have been Armenians at least two thousand years before the world had ever heard of Jesus, and we will still be Armenians two thousands years hence when people may say "Jesus who?"

 

Yes, at times I do use STRONG language. OFFENSIVE? Not my intention since I even have deep and sincere respect of people who have strong convictions about the Jesus cult or the Mohammed cult for that matter. ( I have expressed my PERSONAL religious conviction, or the lack thereof on many occasions). I can live without (organized, bigoted and divisive) religion. Can You?

So, why can't we get back to days when we were lovers, in the full sense of the word, making love one day and war the next, where we left off before the disciples of Jesus on the one hand and the those of Mohammed on the other drove us apart. Majority of us here are not descendants the "House of David" nor do we descend from the "House of Saud" in Mecca.

 

My offer of the Mesropian Alphabet is sincere, I have done it before, and I will probably do it again. In this day and age when we use such words as TV instead of herustatesutyun and "merci" instead of "tashakkurat" and "shun-orh-na-kal yem" why would one go through the trouble again and re-invent what has already been invented. In fact I/we would be delighted and honored if my/our offer were accepted and a (Mesropian)script and alphabet that at the present is acknowledged by less than 8 million people, half of which would not recognise the letter Ayb if it hit them in the face, would be adopted by our friendly neighbors and augment the ranks of the users to 60?, 70? or at least 100 million, what with the Afghanis, the Tajiks, Beluchis, Talish, who else?

 

This may be new to some.

 

Up until 431 AD, some century and a half after our mass adoption of Christainity we were using alien scripts, be they Greek, Assyrian or else, when it was deemed necessary that we have our own alphabet so as to enable the common people get the "message" in their own vernacular, since Greek and Assyrian were the sole property of the intelligentsia (read clergy), and that at that status quo, in a short time we would be either absorbed into Greek or Assyrian. That is when the Patriarch St. Sahak, shrewd and wise politician that he was concluded that our only redemption lay in having our own script. In walks Mesrop Mashtots, the consummate scientist as he was an equally qualified monk, missionary and politician in his own right. He travelled to every corner of the then known world, all the way from Athens, to Persepolis, to Babylonia and Alexandria. He studied every existing and non-existent script, he considered the pros and cons of each, all the way from adequacy to cultural and political, considerations such as detached or linked as in the Semitic? Right to left or left to right?(A highly political issue). Do they have all the symbols to all the sounds that we have?

 

Conclusion?

Neither of the above!

He had to devise and invent a totally new system to cover all of the above.

 

And... voila!

 

He spent years of research. Much blood, tears and sweat. And, as the kindergarten/Sunday School legend would have us, one night, when he was close to death of exhaustion, he closed his eyes for a moment, amd, here it was, the hand of God writing our Mesropian Alphabet on the wall.

 

Is it a God-given script?

 

Why not!

 

Consider that people and empires so many times mightier than we ever were have long bit the dust since.

 

Why don't we write in Assyrian or Greek today?

 

The former was already in their twilight at that time, and the Latter, in (culturally humane) contrast did not use the "sword" to hellenize us as those from Mecca did. Of all the people that succumbed to the "sword of Allah" Armenians were the only ones spared. Will I pay tribute to our religious leaders here if I say that our Church spared us from the "sword of Mohammed"??

 

So be it!!

 

Amen!!

 

In other words.

What is the difference between one religion and another?

They are all designed for the least humanly and humanely cerebral among us. Those who cannot think for themselves, those who cannot distinguish right from wrong, sin from morality, crime from good citizenship somebody else will do it for them.

 

End of sermon.

 

And come to think of it, today is not even Sunday or the Sabbath... excuse me! It is Jum'a!