Siamanto Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 (edited) Azat, I agree with you that personal preferences and affinities are somehow "absolute" and should not be imposed. One does not like a form of Music, that's it! There should be no need for a justification! Some like Pepsi, others like Coke! To me rap is much like an artist getting in front of a mic and just reading his/her poetry to music(my limited knowledge of rap) and Ray Charles and BB King have done that in the 60s. Unless I am missing something about Rap or just dont understand it at all. style_images/master/snapback.png I don't define Rap Music as a form of Music where the singer raps! I never tried to formalize my understanding of what is Rap Music and how it can be distinguished from other forms of contemporary Popular Music. It's a challenging exercise and considering that I will have to go soon, the following will probably be just a first "draft." The following is limited to Rap Music as a form of Music. As for the social connotations, I will leave it where Nairi left it. I believe that Rap Music introduced and/or popularized the following in contemporary (Black) Music: 1- The usage of the human voice as a percussive instrument; as if a base track/line or a rhythmic track/line was mixed to the voice - as an instrument. Yes, that is an African tradition. 2- The structure of a "song" has been completely re-architected. A traditional "song" included 4-8 almost LINEAR tracks where each track existed - more or less - from start to finish. Typically, a track or two for each musician. In rap, not all tracks exist from start to finish and their architecture is more open. Furthermore, different tracks are LOOSELY coupled. That creates the effect of different layers and "polyrhythmy." Of course, that existed in Classical Music - complex architecture - African Music - polyrhythmy - and to some extent in some forms of Funk - i.e. Parliament. Many perceive the complex architecture/structure as cacophony! 3- On top of the "layered" and open architecture, it popularized the concept of "collage" in Music by sampling and integrating different musical phrases. It rediscovered the Black Musical Heritage and made possible "code reuse" in Music. Again, the concepts may have existed in other artistic domains. 4- It also popularized "spectral analysis" and "electronic instruments." Again, Stockhausen did it in Classical Music in the sixties and groups like Cabaret Voltaire and Hafler Trio in other forms of Music 5- .... To be completed! I hope that I answered your question! Have a nice day! Edited November 21, 2004 by Siamanto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 (edited) There is such a thing as good rap? Please point me to one or two titles and let me be the judge Stan by Eminem (featuring Dido) The Way I Am by Eminem Whooha by Busta Rhymes (hey, I like it ) Insane in the Brain by Cypress Hill Rhapsody by Warren G & Sissel (Prince Igor) Paparazzi by Xzibit That Rhapsody by Warren G is a great piece. If you can't find any of them, let me know. Edited November 21, 2004 by Seapahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Azat, here is something for you http://www.haytxeq.com/ check out the samples http://www.haytxeq.com/?pn=tracks&album=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Insane in the Brain by Cypress Hill style_images/master/snapback.png Sip, don't know why but you remind me Cypress Hill http://home1.gte.net/steven1/cypg1.gif I like his "Hits from the bong" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Azat, you're gonna love this. Click on "Play song clip" button. http://www.mp3.com/tracks/432612/dl_streams.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Oh ya, its gteat Armen jan. I am sorry I dont like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 It's jazzy and you like it Azat jan You like all the black stuff. I think you reject it because rap has a bad RAP I don't listen to the lyrics ... Anyway, it is sad that rap came from bad life. But any black music comes from bad life. I agree with Nairi, rap has opened a new world. It created new wave R&B, Acid Jazz etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Azat, here is something for you http://www.haytxeq.com/ check out the samples http://www.haytxeq.com/?pn=tracks&album=1 style_images/master/snapback.png Brilliant! Thanks bud! As for rap for Azat, I think it's up to him to find out what he likes and what not. Maybe he's already heard a lot of it and has concluded that he doesn't like any of it. Fair enough. Everyone has the right to their own taste. I enjoy"good" rap every now and again... Btw Sip, I like "I wanna get high" by Cypress Hill :) Here's Mobb Deep on Funk Master Flex's mix: Shook Ones Pt. II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 I agree with Nairi, rap has opened a new world. It created new wave R&B, Acid Jazz etc. style_images/master/snapback.png I think you have it the otherway around with respects to R&B - the real R&B (rhythm & blues) is much, much older than any rap/hip-hop. I actually really love old R&B - the newer overly-modulated 'pop' tunes aren't R&B to my ears. But I suppose it's just semantics. There's some really good hip-hop out there, but I don't the genre is upholding it's innovative roots. Like many of today's styles, it seems to be wallowing in a mire of 'standardized, cookie-cutter production' designed by the record company giants and their agents (companies like clearchannel) to make dollars more of a priority than music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 That's a good one Nairi - i hadn't heard the 'a capella' version before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 I think you have it the otherway around with respects to R&B - the real R&B (rhythm & blues) is much, much older than any rap/hip-hop. I actually really love old R&B - the newer overly-modulated 'pop' tunes aren't R&B to my ears. But I suppose it's just semantics. There's some really good hip-hop out there, but I don't the genre is upholding it's innovative roots. Like many of today's styles, it seems to be wallowing in a mire of 'standardized, cookie-cutter production' designed by the record company giants and their agents (companies like clearchannel) to make dollars more of a priority than music. style_images/master/snapback.png I agree that Rap came from the old R&B but the new wave of R&B passed though a period of sythezis with Rap. They kind of cross-influenced each other at cetain periods. Again the new wave of R&B like Fugees, Beyonce, Ms. Dynamite etc are all offsprings of a sythesis with Rap. I mostly listen to pre 1995-96 Rap. I agree that the current wave of rappers isen't producing anything worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Brilliant! Thanks bud! style_images/master/snapback.png i've been listening to those two songs for a while now (a few months) (the first time i listen rap more than once), never get tired of them... they show the sad reality of armenian guys, which i've sort of lived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Yeah, the commercial stuff pretty much started with Sugar Hill Gang - Rapper's Delight, didn't it? I still like it though But there's still a lot of "underground" rap. You just need to know where to look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Azat, here is something for you http://www.haytxeq.com/ check out the samples http://www.haytxeq.com/?pn=tracks&album=1 style_images/master/snapback.png Harut, I am confused, was this a joke or were you serious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Harut, I am confused, was this a joke or were you serious? style_images/master/snapback.png about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 you like that music? I personally hated it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 you like that music? I personally hated it style_images/master/snapback.png well, true, the music is really annoying, but the lyrics sound just like my "axxxxxperutyun" from armenia, "ppzats" on the "bordyur"s. see here http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=95...ndpost&p=121128 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Yeah, the commercial stuff pretty much started with Sugar Hill Gang - Rapper's Delight, didn't it? I still like it though But there's still a lot of "underground" rap. You just need to know where to look. style_images/master/snapback.png Don't know. Old things are always better than the new things. In every aspect of life. Until the new things become old ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 (edited) Actually, I have nothing against novelty. Actually I like it, as long as it's good. When I said "underground" rap, I also meant new underground rap: as in, it's still being made. Edited November 24, 2004 by nairi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 well, true, the music is really annoying, but the lyrics sound just like my "axxxxxperutyun" from armenia, "ppzats" on the "bordyur"s. see here http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=95...ndpost&p=121128 style_images/master/snapback.png ... what will they think of next????? hayer@ yerb en haskanalu vor hayeren@ rap anelu lezu chi???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 ... what will they think of next????? hayer@ yerb en haskanalu vor hayeren@ rap anelu lezu chi???? style_images/master/snapback.png yerb vor cd-ner@ chvajarvi... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 yerb vor cd-ner@ chvajarvi... style_images/master/snapback.png I guess ... bayts nervers qrqrvetsin mi qich lsetsi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 I guess ... bayts nervers qrqrvetsin mi qich lsetsi. style_images/master/snapback.png AMEN The only rap I like is spelled a bit different and tastes yammie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 AMEN The only rap I like is spelled a bit different and tastes yammie style_images/master/snapback.png You're into classic, I hardly see how you can like rap(I mean in term of musical value). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Don't know. Old things are always better than the new things. In every aspect of life. Until the new things become old ... style_images/master/snapback.png I would tend to agree with this statement. I think it's especially true when considering music - but perhaps that just makes me seem over the hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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