Shahumyan Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 "what I means by that is that if you communists were so good to Armenia, why couldn't you keep Kars" -because Dashnaks had just signed it away, given all legal authority to Turkey... -did Armenia in 1921 in USSR with attacks from imperialist forces have resources to take turkey back by force? As weve sed Zangezur should have been Armenias had it not been Stalin who gave it away Stalin created a whole beurocracy around him under Stalinism, hence even with his death, unless there was a revolution to get rid fo Stalinism, nothing could be done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalHye Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 You know what Shahumyan, i'm sick and tired of saying what WRONG things communists did for Armenia. Now it's your turn, tell me about the GOOD things they have done. What did communism accomplish for Armenians? What did our communist leaders do for Armenia? Does your name represent Stepan Shahumyan? I see we have many cities and regions after his name. What did He do for Armenians? What GOOD did Lenin do for Armenia. What GOOD did Brejnev do for Armenia? The only good cummunist I can find is Krushchuv. Thats it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 accelerated, you make some bold statements, do you wish to use explaination or evidence? You need explanations, go do some reading. I dont have the time and couldnt be bothered anyhow. If Bolsheviks werent popular how did they have support of the masses? thats the point, the bolsheviks DID NOT have popular support, in fact they were nobodies untill 1917. Besides the majority of the Russian population of the time (peasants) were illiterate and were more worried about how their crops were going to turn up next summer and how they were to obtain some more vodka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahumyan Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 Crystal, I will gladly do this, but i just got a roasting from a teacher tutor evening, so i dont have time to go thru exact details at the moment, but look at: Literature Art Drama and Films Music Sports (Ararat getting to Semis of Champions League) Education Production Full Employment Infrustructure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalHye Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 1. Literature --- we had literature since the alphabet was created. LITERATURE was one of the main subjects of Armenians that we are proud of. Communism or not, Literature WOULD have continued growing in Armenia one way or another because we Armenians LOVED and always will love it. For example (Narekatsi, Khorenatsi, Shirakatsi, and more.....) Art --- I can say the same thing about art. Look at our past Architechture. There was no communism when we built Ani, city of Thousand and One Churhces. Drama and Films --- Well, don't know much about that, sorry. (But I still dont see how communism influenced this) Music --- Our music also goes waaaayyy back. Sports (Ararat getting to Semis of Champions League) --- Can't argue that. Maybe we had better living standards back then so our players had time and willingness to practice on themselves and achieve something. Education --- I know that there had been A LOT OF PROPAGANDA on education. For example, communists didn't allow Armenians to study much about their own history. They even forbid Armenians to teach about the Genocide until the 50s or 60s (I'm not sure). Production --- Well, you're right about that one but I see our production rose because the roads were open and now are not. Full Employment --- I agree. Infrustructure --- What about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 CrystalHye, although i would not want the communists to come back, we have to aknowledge the improvements that took place in those 75 years. we accomplished more than we had in previous 600 years. armenia was turned from 7th world country in early 20th century to at least 2nd world country in late '80s. though, the oppression on the people wasn't any lesser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalHye Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 CrystalHye, although i would not want the communists to come back, we have to aknowledge the improvements that took place in those 75 years. we accomplished more than we had in previous 600 years. armenia was turned from 7th world country in early 20th century to at least 2nd world country in late '80s. though, the oppression on the people wasn't any lesser. I do, no doubt, we have accomplished a lot during those years, but, what i'm arguing about is that communis leaders could have done A LOT for Armenia and DIDN'T. (regarding to our territories). Now, it will be wrong to think accept communism because NO nation around us lives in communism, and no country that supports us lives in communism and we will lose a lot if we turn communists. DONT YOU THINK SO????? I think Shahumyan will also agree with me on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahumyan Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Crystal, finally were getting somewhere I agree with you, the communists could have attacked Turkey had took back Kars, however that woul have been uncommunist, as communism works for interests of workers, and simply grabbing land in an imperialist war would not have been in interests of all who were part of situation. The real solution was to make a workers state out of Turkey, however, this was harder as Nato supported Turkeys anti-armenian stance so it could place its nuclear warheads there. The real fault of stalinism which is repeated so often is they failed to overthrow other country's capitalist governments. Had they done this in Turkey, both peoples could have shared the territories in question, and advanced much further than they ever will under capitalism As for today, i totally agree with you that the very second Armenia turns communist that the neighbouring nations will attack it and try to smash the workers state, in fear of their own people rising up, that is why it is most important that a caucausian socialist federation is established, as Armenia on its own, or Georgia or Azerbaijan on their own would never survive. "Workers of the World unite" not just of one nation. Im glad we agreeing here, and the thread isnt going to degenerate in slogans. What are your views to my proposals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalHye Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Im glad we agreeing here, and the thread isnt going to degenerate in slogans. What are your views to my proposals? well, those decisions are WAY out of my reach, but, when the time comes, we'll see. For now, I just try to help out Armenia as much as I can. thats all!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahumyan Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 its not out of your reach, get a book and read it....not hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Anoushik, I am not nostalgic, well maybe im nostalgic at the way every worker in ARmenia had a job, full free education, incredible health service, excellent recreational activities, the real golden age of armenian literature, the peak of Armenian music, but i suppose your right, i should like the poverty and the end of all culture that was in ARmenia. As for remembering my youth, as im 18 i dont think i was remembering my youth. Shahumyan, if you're 18 then it means that you were about 5 when the Soviet collapsed. How do you know all this about the Soviet? Through you parents I assume? Likewise, I also learned from my parents. Your posts is extremely exagerated. And it seems like you were living in Yerevan, am I correct? The reason I ask is because everything good in Armenia during the Soviet was concentrated in Yerevan. The health service you're talking about, the full free education... The truth is that education migh seem free but most students got into the universities by bribing the professors. (I'd gladly discuss more about this but right now I am in the middle of finals.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahumyan Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 ive read about it, and i was born in England, and my parents are anti-communists.... Could you explain where i exaggerate posts? i also have major exams in january, so my big stuff wont come out till february Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeznig Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 ...communis leaders could have done A LOT for Armenia and DIDN'T. This is absolutely true. But perhaps we should be a bit more specific. In the 1930s Armenian communism underwent what could be termed a tragedy at the hands of the Stalin regime. After the best Armenian communist leader Aghassi Khanjian was murdered by Stalin's henchmen the Armenian communist party was cleansed of all dedicated communists and filled with yes men who did Stalin's bidding without any concern for the Armenian people. There were of course exceptions, but as in the Soviet Union as a whole so too in Armenia were the honest communists eliminated in the 30s. Thereafter the Communist Party became a vehicle serving the interests of ambitious careerists and opportunists who cared not at all for communism or capitalism so long as they themselves could lead a privileged existence. It is against these people that B Sevak wrote some of his best poetry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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