Dan Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Davo, dude, what are you talking about? lol..... Armenians were (among) the first nation(s)???? Where on earth have you read that? Don't tell me you believe the Hayg and Pel story.... >< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Davo, it is the same intolerance that led Turks to massacre Armenians.. So my verdict is that you're a hypocrite.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted January 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Davo, quit wasting our time in your young age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted January 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Sure, dude, my saying homosexuality is not about culture ("Armenian vs. Western culture, boo hoo hoo wah wah wah") but homosexuality having its expression depending on culture is inferior to what comes from such an intelligent being as yourself asking if being Armenian and being gay are equivalent and saying my opinion is worthless to boot. Everything is relative. A statue of Mao is better to enjoy than the Eiffel Tower. In fact, one should even argue for it when people are discussing whether the Eiffel Tower should be included among World Heritage Sites or not. And if in fact you are not as young as I think you to be, GROW UP and QUIT PROSELYTIZING! Proselytizers get your butts out of this thread because I don't want it to be closed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted January 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Ok Stormiq, WHAT EVER! Marriage is an institution, a commitment between man and wife. What is next? People getting married to their dogs? DAVO "Whatever" sheds light to your intellect as have your posts so far! And if you have read the posts at the beginning of this thread (apparently you have not), I am EXPLORING what people think about what should or could be the case, approach. This is neither a freaking gay-bashing thread nor an "Armenian values" propaganda one! Just follow the line of posts before you appeared and see where you have taken the thread with your own! Discussion turns into crapola! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Is being ARMENIAN the same as being GAY? it is not the same, but they're on the same level. it is part of my identity, just like my Armenian and British background. And I am proud to be all three. Â And for the record, Noah's arch landing on Ararat doesn't signify anything as to who lived there at the time...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 (edited) Marriage is an institution, a commitment between man and wife. What is next? People getting married to their dogs? the thing that makes me just ignore your arguments is that you are equating homosexuality to bestiality....... and i have no comments on that one... so learn some history and do come back and tell me if homosexuality didn't exist in ancient Greece or even in Armenia (trasdamad (sp?) and Arshag [was it Arshag takavor who was captured by the Persians?]) Â and what are you talking about Armenian "ashkhar"? what are you specifically pointing at when you refer to "Armenian traditions"? if by that you mean intolerance and closed-mindedness, then no, that is not who Armenians are. Being open-minded and accepting (not necessarily agreeing with the act) of others for their differences or for who they are does not mean that you are letting go of your cultural identity or anything of the sort. maybe it is YOU who should wake up, because you seem to be SO blinded by the "Armenian values" our church supposedly (?) teaches/preaches (i wouldn't know if that is true, as i never go to church).. so by that token, should all Armenians be church-goers, devout Christians, etc.? after all, we were the first nation that accepted Christianity, right? ....... Â if you have something of significance to contribute to this thread, do so, but do not attempt to turn this into a fight between other members to get it locked, because if you do that, i'm gonna be one PISSED OFF GAY ARMENIAN. Edited January 8, 2004 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 So where do you think Armenians come from? Many times Noya is called ´the father of the Armenians.` DAVO that is --> now pay attention to the main argument of the thread (Same Sex Marriages), instead of going in all directions without proving anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel4hope Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 wow davo great post i strongly agree with your standpoint--but i have to say-i myself dont like the idea of homosexuality and dont see it as something to be proud of--but see here- i dont hate gay people or think that they are bad people or are wrong-they may be right in their own beliefs-see- i also cant say i hate homosexuals because there are people i know who are gay and are very nice people and i have come to a conclusion that whatever people choose to do with their sexuality shuold not be any of my business--i understand what you were getting at in the above-- and i truely respect it--but when you meet people who are gay or what not and treat them like any other person you see that there is no difference-so therefore i have to say that although it may be against many views and beliefs~ it should not be our concern --i dont know if im coming across clearly here but i tried to do as well as i could to express my opinion and viewpoint of the situation....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel4hope Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 aw thank you davo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 What keeps my mind bussy is that ´all nations´ always tried to devite our nation in to peases and our peope as well. The thing that keeps us armenian is 1 AZG 1 LEZU ev 1 HAVATK (1 nation, 1 language and 1 religion). So if I give my opinion on this forum as an armenian, understanding that the purpose of this forum is to re-unite the Armenians from all over the world, I incalculate the above mentioned tree things. The Turks tried to clean the world of armenians in 1915 because of our values and religion. They hated us because of who we are. So if we had to change who we are why not then? It would be more easy and we would be spared. what the hell are you talking about????? Armenians were massacred for their religion or whatever, how is that relevant to same-sex marriage????????? the fact that my ancestors were massacred for religion does not automatically mean that I HAVE TO be religious, ok? that is the biggest fallacy I've come across in the past coupla months..  Dan, you say you are not religios. You ask me why you should be religios. Well where did our ancestors lose their blood for? Were they stupid? I´m also not super religios but I do the best I can because of my respect to them. Some armenians turn in to Yehova wittnesses, Penta Coste and so on. Why? What is wrong with what we have? again, that is totally irrelevant. and the fact that people choose to change their religious affiliation or whatever is none of your business, and you don't even have the right to criticise them for it, because every person can do whatever the hell he/she wants. who are you to label people and tell them what they are doing is right or wrong? why must all Armenians be the same? Are they sheep that have no brain, no personal identity, to be able to think for themselves, of themselves, and do the things they believe in which are really independent of their background/cultural identity?  In The Netherlands they are talking about legalisation of drugs? Do you agree on that? Maybe not but for the people who live here after 10 or 20 years it will be something normal. yes, i think it's about high time that drugs are legalised. and while i might not agree with drug use, i think people should be allowed to legally purchase small quantities of it for personal AND ADULT use.  Don´t get me wrong but also don´t forget that homosexuality is not exepted in a big part of the world. Dan, I would like to know what you think about the fact that if everybody would be gay we would have a big problem. I mean, what should we suppose to do in that case? I trie to say that in that case nature kills itself. first off, why must you make everyone/everything be the same????? does your mind function only in uniforms???? why must you see ONLY homosexuals OR heterosexuals? gay marriage in no way MAKES heteros homosexual... your point is very weak.. and besides, homosexuality has existed since the beginning of time, and i think i'm alive and the human race has continued..... so your point is? yeah, and ears are not made for earrings... just for hearing... i suppose you advocate intolerance of women who have their ears pierced? or wait, don't women have hair on their legs, etc.? and isn't that the "natural" way? i suppose you like your women hairy? <_<  too bad you don't have any valid arguments.. i would've loved to argue with someone on my own level... alas, you are not even close... so sad.. is this the level of intelligence your Armenian ancestors wanted you to be at? *shakes head* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 another thing: even if homosexuality is wrong in reality, until you prove it, i am entitled to my rights. welcome to the world of law.. it's tough out there, but hopefully you will live through it without getting high blood pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 DAVO - you sound like a nice person and I know that you don't mean harm etc and I understand what you are tyring to say concerning Armenian identity - still I have to say - you are stuck in time...and unfortunatly - for you - the world and our societies are not standing still - and basically cannot. I know that this is difficult for you - and many - to cope with - but unfortunalty it just is. Now I have nothing against trying to maintain moral values or aspects of our culture that are unique and worthwhile - but really - I think you must examine these values of yorus and really thik a bit. I've known many homosexuals - and they are as moral and as normal as anyone else - and are entitled to be allowed to live as anyone else and to do what they wish - as long as others are not harmed. And this may even include raising a family - as I have seen such - and in fact some gays make great parents. So open up your eyes a bit - and try to be just a bit more tolerant of others. If you aren;t - well I fear that you will just give yourself ulcers or such. Oh and regarding drugs...Do you drink cofee or tea? Do you drink beer or wine? Do you smoke? etc ..all of these are driugs (or have components that can be classified as such)...even taking asprin - well that is a drug - so yes - adults take drugs for a varaiety of reasons. Is it wrong to take drugs to make you feel better - or to enjoy some nice effects etc? I can't see how it is per se...at least with wrong being equated to criminal behavior. Is it not a good idea perhaps..perhaps..most all drugs have either unwanted/not so good side effects...and/or are addictive or otherwise harmful...may not be good to be "on" if you have to be resposible in any way etc etc - so yes there are always issues and considerations. But I myself enjoy a glass of wine or a beer now and again...I enjoy the partaking and the effect. And while yes - there may be harmful elements involved with alchohol consumption - I feel the benefits are worthwhile anddesirable on average. In fact there is much to be said - concerning direct health benefits - of red wine for instance (and I have in fact had a doctor perscribe me wine for post-operative pain relief - as opposed to a narcotic (my idea of course! LOL) - as well as psychological ones - nice to help relax - make it easier to smile and laugh or what have you...etc etc...so again - please refrain from making blanket judgements when in fact there might be a bit more to the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 yes, i think it's about high time that drugs are legalised. .... With quotes like these - Dan should run for president. Â ROTFL! Ok - I really don't understand what the big deal is - let's all (gays, straights, lesbians etc.) just live happy together. Let everyone get married - no one's getting hurt... and marriage isn't what it used to be either. So let same sex marriages be... I'm pretty ambivalent on this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 (edited) With quotes like these - Dan should run for president. hahaha.. lol vava... i should, eh? does that mean you're comparing me to bush?!??!!??! it was actually a pun... lol  ROTFL! Ok - I really don't understand what the big deal is - let's all (gays, straights, lesbians etc.) just live happy together. Let everyone get married - no one's getting hurt... and marriage isn't what it used to be either. So let same sex marriages be... exactly... people like Davo want to live but not let live..... Davo, live and let live. you must realise that society and values do not stay the same - what was unacceptable 200 years ago is now normal, etc. Balzac once said "If there were fixed principles and laws nations would not change them as easily as we change our shirts." A little more than 80 years ago, it was absolutely unacceptable for women to vote, etc. Now women have those rights... Likewise in Armenian society (traditions, etc.), the role of the woman in the Armenian family has undergone massive change... my grandmother's generation and mine do not treat these issues the same way..... yet, in another thread you said you weren’t from the middle ages… Edited January 8, 2004 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 (edited) And by the way our religion is not pro-gay ok!!?? our religion? i thought we didn't have a religion of our own, just a different church..... and whoever said it was pro-gay???? religion has been the institution that has given rise to MORE damage/ruin/destruction, hatred, intolerance, etc. than anything else in the history of mankind. So keep on glorifying religion..... and know that our ancestors were the victims of that religion - something there is no proof of in the first place... and know that the Turks massacred them in the name of religion and in the name of unifying the "empire", and making everything in it Turkish...... Congratulations, you would be the next Talaat "*****", only the modern Armenian version of "him," whose main objective is to go on a crusade of heterosexuality....... Edited January 8, 2004 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 OH BOY AM I GONNA GET CRITICISED FOR THIS!!!!!  Look, i know what i am getting myself into here,,, but i have the obligation to state this anyways... Davo is dang near right on almost all he has stated.... If You are Gay, then i can prove to you your are immoral, contact me on a more personnal level if you really want me to prove what you allready know... "Cultural relativism" has become the downfall of humanity, what makes it worst is everyone trying to be the most open minded,, that leads into its own fallacy's and hypocricies, Dan, I dont you know i am not speaking against you, but if you feel it that way then you have a problem. We should be relative to our religion, and that is Christianity, Davo has respect for what his ancestors have done, but Davo you need to have respect for you own future, "because remember, (if you have ever heard this phrase before) you live for eternity, and how you live your 1-100 years or so in this realm determines how you live for eternity" Jesus is the truth the way and the life, with him you will be saved without him you will suffer in damnation. That quote is posted in all of our armenian churches, @ armenia and the states... And if you are armenian shame on you that you do not know this phrase and live for it.  Dont give me this "I have the right to choice" BS DAN.... pilot told jesus before he was crucified, "do you know i have the power to crucify u or let you go" and the beautiful response, "you would not have any power if it werent given to you from above"... You have free will, and the right to chose argument (about these sorts of things anyways) will earn you a first calss ticket to HELL...  With all this religion in my post im sure you guys are thinking im a "ter-hayr" or something, no I am 19 yrs old,, and go to church regularly, and the more i learn, the more discouraged i am of our lovely Armenian youth... turning into, "aperos" and "rabiz lakotner" and agreeing with the present culture that,, hell its your choice... homosexuality was a sin God let take over Gomar for the disrespect the pepople of that nation showed to him for all he had given to them, and DANG staright its wrong, its immoral and straight out Disgusting... mankind didnt come with the option of female or male, not something you choose, it is what God decides for you...  you have free will??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 ALSO DAN victims of that religion - something there is no proof of in the first place You seriously think about this statement and then try to argue it again!!!!! No religion,, then the next most close to mind "theory" is the Big bang and we are all the outcome of absolute chance... WHAT THE HELL KIND OF ARGUEMENT IS THAT!!!??? LMAO.... iv heard it way to often.. i wanna see yours now DAN... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel4hope Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 wow pretty compelling post there gevo jan--uve opened pandoras box here--trust me with strong opinions comes alotta crap to deal with and criticism...good luck dude jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 my new favorite saying,, thx angel.... dud-jan... my friends gonna love this one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectra Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Since this is an "Armenian Forum"*, I think we should be careful on our posts. I was reading some of the articles and basically the topic of this forum "Same Sex Marriage" is wrong to be openly discussed in "Armenian Forum". All of us shall know that our great Armenian nation was always united in big battles starting from Vardanants battle to Bash-Aparan battle. In both battles we were united under the name of Jesus Christ and our Armenian Apostolic Church and our Catholicos of all Armenians. Therefore, Armenians should not post pro-gay marriage topics in this forum. Marriage is a saint thing. It is done in Armenian Church. I am not against the gay people. They are free to do anything in their bedroom. But I will not let them get married in Armenia, in Armenian Church. *some users are not Armenian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted January 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 I said this is NOT a gay-bashing thread (the Code of Conduct of this forum does not allow it!) and it pertains to an Armenian forum just as much as "turn ons" and "turn offs" and "favourite mixed drinks" do! Nobody is forcing you to marry a homosexual against your will any more than they are forcing you to share your turn ons and turn offs or to drink a mixed drink, so allow those grown-ups who are interested in discussing it to discuss it without having people with oral diarrhoea stink the place up! People as such have more a right to discuss it than certain "people" have to open a thread to "prove" it is "immoral" - so kiss off! In the realm of sexual preferences, you are the equivalent of the so-called "White Nationalists," so why don't you pay S]t]o]r]m]f]r]o]n]t a visit or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...2-2004Jan7.html LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Dan, I wondered if I should answer you, finally did answer. You don't want to understand and as usual twist the whole thing. I don't care that unions existed previously between man/man, woman/woman... I am talking about the established marriages around the world, buddhist, Induist, Muslim, Judaist, Christian or any other such religions. I am telling you that YOU CAN NOT!!! force a church to marry gay couples if it is against their convictions. And again, you fail to explain me why gays are after the word... and please stop asking for proof when you were even not able to bring the simplest one. I have seen with my own eyes at the Quebec channel TQS on the 5:30 PM hour, a representent of the Gay community that was after the word... void? I don't think so, I can give you all the informations for this channel, and you can verify and later tell me if what I tell you is null and void. Because obviously it is not, I have heard and seen with my own eyes... During the last Gay manifestation here in Montreal, if you were there, I hope you yourself saw on a protesting board(or whatever they call it) the message "Nothing other than marriage" (I translated from French here). And again, again and again... I ask you what justify this word being recognised, when it will never be fully applicable? Civil Union will offense less people and could be implamented accross the word. Why the word marriage? Is it worth all the conflicts between churchs and people when you can have the same rights with something that is not called marriage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Yeah Domino - I mena why do blacks need to attend our (white) schools? They can have their own - yeah - thats the ticket...and they can cal them whatever they like..but they just can't ahve what we've got - no - no way - its just for us.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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