Dan Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 on the contrary, Stormig, it shows the bigotry of some Armenians, and shows that they do not speak for the majority of the new generation of Armenians who choose to get rid of that bigotry and blind faith.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 You know Stormy, you are right... As for me, if gays are fighting so vigurously for the word marriage, go ahead... afterall they are the ones that want to separate themselves from the rest of the society by wanting to do everything differently and by the same time wanting equality. Just take a look at any things they came up to distinguish themselves, like Gay Olympics, Gay cultures day, etc... going after a word that is used for heteros is highly contradictory when they have decided to do differently for everything else. Just another note, it has been refered here that there is a gene such as a gay "gene" this is under debate still, there may be genetic factors predisposing some, but clear links were not made, the highest correlation that was made was not genetic but child or adolescent abuses, this would explain only for the cases of gay males not females, a research on this topic published in the Journal of American Medical Association indicated that male adolescents being abused had 7 times more chances to identity themselves as gays and bisexuals. The same links were established between child abuses and child abusers(those abused had more chances to become child abusers), some other studies were made between homosexuality and pedophelia with contradictory results, I believe here the correlation may be erronous, since it should be made between abused child and abuser links, etc... In somme, homosexuality seems to be more an enviromental, social thing rather than genetic, maybe some markers may predisposes some, but the reasons are wide and not specific. On the other hand, cultutural reasons may be part responsable, I do believe that culture may have a role, culture is part of society... we have no idea if children adopted by gay parents will have more chances to become gay, but it is likely that this would be the cases, since child abuses from an adult of the same sex has a role in some cases. Only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 i bet those women who have expressed their support of anti-gay / anti-same-sex marriage epithets / views have pre-marital sex.... ahhhh... where have values disappeared? i mean, at least if you believe in something (traditions?), adhere by them in good times and bad times (errr, i mean when you are desiring someone or when you are arguing with someone about desire, whether it be same-sex or opposite-sex)... it's funny (=pathetic) how many double standard arguments are revealed during any same-sex argument... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Friend Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 I don't think a lot of you know gay folk. I lived in the Village in New York at school and in the day, Second Avenue{or was it htird Avenue} had the 'cruisers 'on parade..so to speak..arm in arm, hand in hand..men and men, women and women..asi es la vida..such is life. It adds to the color of many metro area like New York. I love gay waiters in restaurants, gay poets, gay sports figures..my hero in boxing Hall of Famer Emile Griffth was gay. I like to watch gay folk interact in gay rallys in Washington Square. They are everyday people..if they bother you..stay away..your experiences will be diminished. It is too late or hopeless for some of you already. JF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 they are the ones that want to separate themselves from the rest of the society by wanting to do everything differently and by the same time wanting equality. Just take a look at any things they came up to distinguish themselves, like Gay Olympics, Gay cultures day not all of us want that. i was and still am totally against the idea of a "gay school" (NY)... it encourages segregation and is utterly stupid if you look at it. Moreover, it doesn't even address any of the issues teens face in schools and seeks to just forget about the problem.. not to mention that it is only for a class of people whose parents accept their kids being gay, as i don't think anyone who's not out to their parents would be able to go to that school (cos their parents would find out?) And for the record, there is gay olympics because homosexuality is particularly not accepted within the "heterosexual world of sports." Not that i agree that having a separate olympics is the solution to it... so again, it does not give the view of all gay people as wanting to be separate.. if anything, i would like this "picking out gays" in society and putting them on a pedestal of shame and discomfort to be put to an end.. some other studies were made between homosexuality and pedophelia with contradictory results i don't know where i read it, but i believe that the majority [above 85%] of pedophilia cases were "heterosexual" (i.e. the child was a girl in most cases) cultutural reasons may be part responsable, I do believe that culture may have a role, culture is part of society could be -- but how do you explain the existence of homosexuality in a culture that STRICTLY (and i mean by killing, etc.) prohibits any gay activity? since child abuses from an adult of the same sex has a role in some cases here comes the biggest myth of all time about gays -- that they are more likely to be pedophiles than straight people.... why are you not worried about straight people abusing their kids? why is there, in your opinion, a higher risk (and therefore reluctant to agree that gay parents can be as good / bad as straight parents) that children of gay couples have higher risks of being abused by the former? I don't get it... there is no correlation between pedophilia and homosexuality... on the contrary, like i said, higher rates of pedophilia in heterosexuality, relatively speaking, of course (with the ratio of homosexuality to heterosexuality in society -- would not be accurate, since we don't know exactly how many gay people there are in society, but still the results are pretty far apart, I believe, as i read it somewhere once) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 They are everyday people..if they bother you..stay away..your experiences will be diminished. It is too late or hopeless for some of you already. JF that was put very nicely. thank you. that is what people refuse to understand, or maybe they just can't understand it, I don't know which is the case... at any rate, it is their choice.. there's really nothing more one can do except try to open people's eyes... btw, i believe gay marriage has been legalised (or is soon going to be?) in Israel? that is indeed a very good step, especially for that region to start throwing away the veils of ignorance and bigotry. I think even in Lebanon, a gay movement has started to become visible. They now have meetings regularly, etc., although their bars/clubs regularly get raided by police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Friend Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 (edited) I don't folow much about Israel as I am fourth generation american and very assimilated. I am sure gayness is open there in the same way as the U.S. as it is a secular society. The only ones that would freak out are the Orthodox{Jewish Orthodox..lol} and some biggots. But there are no raids, etc. That isa reserved for Hamas, PLO, etc...lol The gay school in N.Y. has been like that for decades, It has just being recognized now. the Harvey Milken school You have a right to have seperate schools, parades, etc. just like all groups including Greeks, Jews Armos, Puerto Ricans, etc. do in big cities. You do not have to be consistent either just because you are gay. don't buy that garbage. you are who you are{Didn't Popeye the sailor man say that.I ams what I am Olive{his girlfriend olive Oil}. Even God said "I am who I am..say to them I Am sent you" {When we kicked Egypt butt and got out of slavery. Keep the Peace Power to the People right On!!!! JF .. Edited January 10, 2004 by Jewish Friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 (edited) Dan, a homosexual is free to participate in any sport in the West, there is no laws forbidding them to participate in the olympics as far as I am aware of it. Second, about pedophelia and homosexuality, I did not say anything about what I believe, and I even said that the correlation was not accurate. Because yes! You will find more abuses of boy % by homosexuals, but it has more to do with the fact that there is more in term of % homosexuals that were abused when young, and the correlation is about abused that become abuser rather than homosexuality and pedophelia. Furthermore, when I refered to gay couple adopting infants, it was about the chances that the childs may be homosexual later, because they live in a gay environment, and since we know that abuses by a man could be one of the possible causes of homosexuality, a child living in a gay environment may become gay as well... even if he is not a victim or abused. Edited January 10, 2004 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 (edited) Dan, a homosexual is free to participate in any sport in the West, there is no laws forbidding them to participate in the olympics as far as I am aware of it. what kinda freedom is that when they get beaten up if someone finds out? why should people automatically assume that i'm straight and if i tell them otherwise, i would be kicked out or hurt or whatever? do you think it's wise of me to come out to my basketball teammates, or do you think i would be safe if they find out about it (we all know how fast word spreads in an Armenian community lol - and besides, why must i hide my sexuality, even if it's irrelevant to basketball, you guys assume that your heterosexuality is the norm and express that freely... so why shouldn't i be able to? fact of the matter is, most gay athletes cannot or don't want to come out for those reasons, and if that is the case, then i think it's reasonable for gays to have their own leagues, etc.) You will find more abuses of boy % by homosexuals lol... yes, because if a hetero guy abused a boy that would be considered homo abuse... but i am talking about the comparison between gay abuse and straight abuse... when I refered to gay couple adopting infants, it was about the chances that the childs may be homosexual later, because they live in a gay environment, and since we know that abuses by a man could be one of the possible causes of homosexuality, a child living in a gay environment may become gay as well... because the first cases is an evidences that environment has a role. so what is wrong with the child turning out to be gay? ........ eh? and again, abuse of female children by males does not turn them into lesbians? frankly, that is a big myth, about abuse turning men from heterosexuality to homosexuality. why must we assume that heterosexuality is the norm and that abuse causes a deviance from it? and you'd think that a male child who has been abused would turn away from men since that has been a traumatic experience, eh? and why must i seek to be invisible anyway? your heterosexuality is in my face every friggin second of every day, when i see men and women kissing on the subway or wherever else it may be.... if i have dealt with that all my life (the years during which i was conscious of my homosexuality anyway), then i think you (not YOU Domino, just in general - so don't jump on me [metaphorically lol] for saying that) should deal with it too... and if not, then you (again, in general) can go to your little hell of a corner and pray to god that he would save you from the hell you have been cast in, or even join fred phelps' crusade, that madman who goes on protests around north america against gays and calls for their slaughter........... and of course, i can assure you, in no time, your activities will be outlawed (very soon, i believe), since it is illegal under the hate crimes laws... * YOU here refers to the general "you", unless i have quoted something from someone, in which case the reply refers to them. Edited January 10, 2004 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 (edited) But there are no raids, etc. That isa reserved for Hamas, PLO, etc...lol hahaha funny... very true though... {Didn't Popeye the sailor man say that.I ams what I am Olive{his girlfriend olive Oil} lol, yup.. i love Popeye!! used to watch it when i was a kid!! the Harvey Milken school yup.. i hadn't heard of/about Harvey Milk until last summer (2003) [i admit i'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to American politics/history], and i read a lot about him and rented a documentary, and it was just absolutely enlightening.. i think he meant a lot to the gay people of california (he was the governor of cali, right?) and people like his assassinator, who was a Christian fundamentalist, i believe, just got away with so little jail term... had he shot a straight politician, he would've been in jail for the rest of his life.. and his "ate too many twinkies" defence wouldn't have freed him in 6 years........ the psycho shot himself in the end anyway.... i guess he couldn't live with the fact that now no one could tell him what to do, because he saw the truth of his acts and the truth behind what was fed to him by his church, society, etc.. i don't know... it's just sad... sad for him too. it's sad how religious intolerance ruins so many lives without people even realising it .. Edited January 10, 2004 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 What a contradiction is that Dan? They are beaten up lets build another olympics, while on the other hand you don't tell us lets have another word for marriage? Second, pedophelia is alone a sexual deviation, it has nothing to do with heterosexuality. It is considered a deviation in this cases because there is a victim that is not an adult. You are as well tiwsting what I say again Dan, I am talking about the correlation between abused becoming abuser, and refer to the homosexuality issue here... while you selectivly quote that part and answer it. Another thing Dan, I never said someone is first hetero and later become gay. This is not true, I never assumed that, the physical attraction comes during teenage ages, at the first years, a boy may be attracted to boys, this will be normal. Later, the attraction he has for girls will intensify and the attraction for boys will be supressed. If a boy is abused during those ages of extrem body/psychologic/neurochimistry changes... it will interfere with the child/teen normal developpement. Men being abused in prisons are living for years may have homosexual tendencies even if they were previously hetero. As for the norm, it is a natural selection stuff Dan, men and women are attracted to eachothers to facilitate procreation and make it something inee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 What a contradiction is that Dan? They are beaten up lets build another olympics, while on the other hand you don't tell us lets have another word for marriage? marriage is a right. so is protection from hate crimes. and as long as we don't have those rights, we will do alternate things until we get those rights. in the case of olympics, well, we have the money, so we can do it, but in case of marriage, well, we've opted for civil union (when at last they were legalised) and now we want to be able to get married just like straight people do. we don't want to be different. people can live together oeacefully with their differences, and had it not been for stubborn people like you and fundamentalists like gevo and Vage G and Davo and the girls who support them just because they want to be accepted for their views by SOMEONE (ANYONE), we would've been living together without all those gay slayings and hate crimes, and we wouldn't be having this argument either.. If a boy is abused during those ages of extrem body/psychologic/neurochimistry changes... it will interfere with the child/teen normal developpement. ok, so how does that not apply to everyone then? or are you implying that it applies to all abused male kids and they all turn out to be gay when they grow up? As for the norm, it is a natural selection stuff Dan, men and women are attracted to eachothers to facilitate procreation and make it something inee. and i suppose you will also argue that being white is also natural selection stuff? that being white is the norm and that is what justified inequality? .... seriously, let go. you're a lost cause.. the more you go on talking about it, the more the gaps in your "theories" will be exposed to the public, among whom are your devout followers (not gonna name them, we all know who they are)... i guess you'd qualify as a white nationalist propagandist or spokesperson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Men being abused in prisons are living for years may have homosexual tendencies even if they were previously hetero. no. the majority of men who are abused in prisons commit suicide one way or another, either after being released or while serving their time. the rest of them just "live through it". there is a small portion of them (next to non-existent) who actually "turn" gay. no one can be "converted." try to convert me to heterosexuality....... or try to convert a straight man into homosexuality.. that argument about an army of gays "recruiting" youth by brainwashing them is just plain BS. at least gevo's argument about 60 tails and heads is of use here -- the chances that you will convert a GAY (not a bisexual who is in a same-sex relationship, that's not considered gay) man to heterosexuality are as low as that experiment of tossing the coin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Later, the attraction he has for girls will intensify and the attraction for boys will be supressed. i wonder what causes that... do you? could it be society and your (or should i say Gevo's and Davo's) christian/muslim/jewish fundamentalists/orthodox folks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Friend Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 (edited) Harvey Milken was an administrator for then Mayor Diane Feinstein of San Fransisco...now Senator Feinstein. The threads here are out of the fifties!lol Happy Days! Gay bashing threads and threads about how important it is to be a virgin. And I thought only Jews had obssessive compulsive thoughts. I feel better now! lol JF Edited January 10, 2004 by Jewish Friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 for the record, although this is kinda off-topic, but there is no such thing as "gay pedophilia" as you are referring to it metaphorically. Pedophilia is not about sexuality. It's about situational sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 The threads here are out of the fifties!lol Happy Days! Gay bashing threads and threads about how important it is to be a virgin. And I thought only Jews had obssessive compulsive thoughts. I feel better now! lol JF Sad, isn't it... yet there are people who want to censor topics like these because it gives a "wrong image" of Armenians... and they insist that they're not from the middle ages... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 but when it comes to a conversation with "otars" we keep up our dignite and pride and we just don`t mention it. As if they don't already know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Friend Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 As if they don't already know... LOl. That was funny. JF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Dan is a very smart person! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 As if they don't already know... exactly my point. Dan is a very smart person! that is off-topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Even if they know, better to proof them wrong or even deny! MARD@ PETKE INQNASIRUTIUN UNENA! omg Davo, are you for real??????!??!?!?!? dude... i don't care who it is who's doing whatever, I'm not about to cover it up. if an Armenian is a robber, I'm not about to cover it up cos he's an Armenian. where's your sense of justice? and i'm not about to deny my being gay or my being Armenian just cos your likes do not like Armenians to have a "bad image". bad image according to whom? i think the rest of the world is pretty much open-minded about homosexuality, and your effort to keep up the "image" has the opposite effect... not that i care about image. i am proud of being Armenian no matter what. the minority of Armenians (thieves, or people like you -- not that i'm comparing you with thieves lol) do not represent me or my nation/culture. and if you don't like living in a country that allows gay marriage, then i supppose you are free to leave that country, no? or go on a protest or whatever... but you have no right to tell me that because i am Armenian, and for the "general good" of Armenian people, i should deny my homosexuality or any part of my identity for that matter... i am not about to do that, so you can stop trying or even thinking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 The gay thing is something not armenian and even better not to mention that you`re armenian if you mention you`re gay it's not? why do i see so many gay Armenians on gayarmeniadotcom? hmm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 You know it feels like a child who`s father is an alcoholic but the child keeps saying to his friends that it`s not like that. The child likes his father to look strong and clever and not weak and addicted. Right. but you ARE aware that they are children, not adults who are fully aware of what reality is all about, right? Dan, even people who had homoseksual feelings kept this secret and started living a celibatair life. I think that is the best option. Come on a man + man??? You can`t be serious, stop this nonsense! It`s no style! You are seriously cracking me up (how's that for an oxymoron? <_< ) whoever said gays keep their feelings secret and live celibate lives? it might be that their families didn't care enough to ask or wonder, it might be that they didn't even see their own family (and frankly, if you were my dad or some other relative, i would just stop talking to you -- i'm glad my mom is not THAT bigoted lol).. so no, gay people don't remain celibate just cos they are not generally accepted by their extremist, fundamentalist families... although, some (a very small minority group) gay men/women do, just like some straight men/women whose parents oppose their choice of wife/husband or whatever.. you are treating groups as if they are 100% predictable.. well, guess what, people aren't that predictable... because if they were, there would be no argument, since we would both know what you're gonna say next and what i'm gonna say next, which occurs very rarely, if ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 do you know the egg story of Colombus? [i don't remember the full story or the way it's usually told, but here's the gist of it] well, Colombus calls the sailors on his ship one day and tells them that whoever can make an egg stand on a table vertically will get [i don't remember what]... so they all try and try to get the egg to stand on its tip, but they can't... so they ask him to tell them the solution (i.e. how it's done).. so he takes an egg, breaks the tip by knocking it on the table gently and puts it on its tip.... and they all go "oh, THAT!!! well, we already knew that!!" and Colombus then told them "if you already knew, why didn't you do it?" so you get the point (i hope) I PRONOUNCE YOU MAN AND MAN, LOOOOOOOL He Dan this can not be true right? exactly. you just proved my point. you are so caught up in your own false assumptions that because it's done so often it's sacred, that you can't even imagine a small variation of it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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