Sacrificing Marital Happiness For Kids

[Alexx]

Many Armenian parents sacrifice everything for their kids when they decide to immigrate to the United States. Mine did and I am forever grateful. I would do the same for my baby boy. But what about Armenian WOMEN sacrificing their marital happiness for their kids. I would like to share personal experience to explain what I mean. I have aunts and uncles, neighbors, acquaintances who have bee married for over many years. In almost all cases the women in those marriages have endured some type of violence from their spouse--beatings, having knives thrown at them, not to mention incredible amount of verbal abuse. Yet, they are still married and when asked why they continued to stay in the marriage, ALL have answered that it was for their kids. They didn't want their kids to be raised without a father and be scrutinized by their peers. They also hoped that their husbands would change. After years and years of abuse in their ealy years of marriage, they are still married today and are not being abused (at least not physically) anymore.

But is it worth to waste your young life with hopes that one day it might get better? We had a young woman in our neighborhood who wanted to divorce her husband because he was violent towards her when drunk and had refused to get help. She was scrutinized by her own mother and most women. The popular argument was that she "deserved" it because she "backtalked" to her husband and was basically "asking" for it. IMO, this kind of violent behavior is inexcusable, not matter what the circumstances.

[Azat]

agree 100%. I hate, hate HATE a-holes who abuse anyone especially their wives and kids. These are the morons who should get scrutinized by everyone and not the abusee. I just find these kind of imbeciles despicable.

[Accelerated]

Physical violence is certainly inexcusable, but a woman can really get on ones nerves sometimes. Im not married (and dont have a g/f), but sometimes my friends g/fs get to me. Usually I let it go (ie. dont say anything), but on some occasions I have been very close to (verbally) lashing out.

[hyebruin]

hmmm, you guys are all on my 'good list' now for sure!! ...violence is certainly inexcusable, but then again these women(NO!! ALLLLLLLLLLLLL WOMEN!!!) should reallllllllllllllllllllly think long and hard before marrying someone! if they're not going to be moving in with him, at least live with him for a while...spend time at his place and get to see what he's REALLY LIKE!!---talk about beliefs and what each wants from marital life...kids, careers,...how many times a day (just kidding,...maybe not!) ...and if the person is trying to hide something or evading some questions, then you know what's up, and won't be surprised when your prince turns into a frog...or worse..a BEAST!!!

[Sip]

but then again these women(NO!! ALLLLLLLLLLLLL WOMEN!!!) should reallllllllllllllllllllly think long and hard before marrying someone!

Oh COME ON. That really belongs in the girls and black guys thread and NOT here.

 

Nice post Alexx.

[Sasun]

I think it is a very valuable tradition in our culture. Maybe the kids who benefit from such sacrifice will appreciate and learn a lesson and not be like their fathers. I find it very selfish that in America (and most Western countries) a much smaller problems than wife abuse lead families to divorce and leave the kids like that.

[hyebruin]

Oh COME ON. That really belongs in the girls and black guys thread and NOT here.     

 

Nice post Alexx.

 

oh come on sip! ...better to be safe than sorry, right? we're talking about guys we DON'T KNOW!!! or those who like to take the girl to the cleaners or ...i don't know...some dysfunctional loser with many many MANY issues...you cuddley gentle giant ~~~we're not talking about your sweet kind here!

[Alexx]

Physical violence is certainly inexcusable, but a woman can really get on ones nerves sometimes.

Same goes for men!

[Alexx]

I think it is a very valuable tradition in our culture. Maybe the kids who benefit from such sacrifice will appreciate and learn a lesson and not be like their fathers. I find it very selfish that in America (and most Western countries) a much smaller problems than wife abuse lead families to divorce and leave the kids like that.

IMO, it's much more important for kids to grow up in a pysically and psychologically safe, healthy environment even if that means residing with one parent. I know women think that they're doing the right thing by staying in the abusive relationship, but ultimately they end up hurting their kids more than anything. Imagine how psychologically damaging it would be to see your mother get abused day in and day out. Wouldn't it be better to live with one parent and still maintain relationship with the other? I think it may have been for my cousin--a grown man today who still suffers from damage he sustained as a child (his hands shake and in general he is very anxiety prone) witnessing his mom get beat on daily basis.

 

I totally agree with your last statement though. What about "you're out the door as soon as you hit 18" philosophy in this country? In general, Armenian mothers mourn if their kids decide to move out while the American ones celebrate.

[Sasun]

Alexx, that's a good point. It seems that there is a tradeoff between not having a father and having an abusing father. If both parents are willing to sacrifice for their child they will figure out what is best and be together or separate accordingly.

 

What about "you're out the door as soon as you hit 18" philosophy in this country? In general, Armenian mothers mourn if their kids decide to move out while the American ones celebrate

We shouldn't be surprised then why American kids abandon their parents in old houses. You get what you give.

[THOTH]

IMO, it's much more important for kids to grow up in a pysically and psychologically safe, healthy environment even if that means residing with one parent. I know women think that they're doing the right thing by staying in the abusive relationship, but ultimately they end up hurting their kids more than anything. Imagine how psychologically damaging it would be to see your mother get abused day in and day out. Wouldn't it be better to live with one parent and still maintain relationship with the other? I think it may have been for my cousin--a grown man today who still suffers from damage he sustained as a child (his hands shake and in general he is very anxiety prone) witnessing his mom get beat on daily basis.

 

I totally agree with your last statement though. What about "you're out the door as soon as you hit 18" philosophy in this country? In general, Armenian mothers mourn if their kids decide to move out while the American ones celebrate.

Agree very much with your post here Alexx 9and I have liked others of yours that I have read) - welcome to our forum!

 

As for moving out of the house at 18...well I couldn't get out fast enough...I certainly love/loved my parents...but my mother was a typical Armenian mother (on steroids) and i just couldn't handle the control factor that she seemed to think went with the parent-child relationship (and she still thinks - LOL) and in fact even though I am married with a wife and children I'm sure she would still want me to move back in under her roof! LOL And I'm not at all exaggerating...you wouldn't believe how - after I moved out - then later away to another city - she kept trying to reel me back in (and no cahance at all for that - i love her - but no way could I ever handle [all] that [love] again....LOL)

[Varduhi]

talk about beliefs and what each wants from marital life...kids, careers,...how many times a day

 

hyebruin

 

Also I have noticed that many Armenian guys come across very sweet and caring at the beginning of their relationship, then all of the sudden they turn into abusing animals after the marriage. PUNKS............ I truly disrespect and hate guys who do that and i also hate when KHUJAN guys end up with HAMEST/KHELATSI wife. WHY WHY WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN? I've noticed this kind of situations a lot among our Armenians.

[Azat]

That happens because women are shallow(I know not all, but many). they talk one thing and they do another. They all say they want a nice guy but gravitate toward the punks who end up abusing them and treating them like crap, but I guess that is what they like.

 

Anyways, got to run. talk to you all later.

[THOTH]

Azat - I'm not sure that it is what they like...but there is na issue regarding the type of guys that many women are atraccted to (that get the juices flowing as it were) - and often - while these guys might be exciting and might be percieved as someone notworthy or what have you - to be seen with -0 they often are not really great boyfriend (loving & caring and all that) material...shame really that (some/many) gals are as you say - shallow - or at least not understanding of these things...

[Bones98]

I see many beating and abuses in armenian marriages for example when my mom and dad were married, my dad beat my mom really bad. SO I think parents

should look after their kids who are married to try and regulate anything wrong going on.

[CheekY]

my dad used to beat my mom too...still does sometimes...rarely....and she never thought of leaving him "for her kids' sake" i guess...something i wouldn't do...

[KavorKin99]

I think it is wrong to have an abusive parent in a family it causes depression and a broken family...(like ma cuz her father like hits her mom) it's sad it's really emotional but the mom trys to keep everything koo for her daughter

[THOTH]

Yeah - Bones & Skittles and al - lets hear it for "traditional" marraiges eh? Disgusting...I can hardly stand even hearing about men who beat their wives...such pathetic bahavior...what kind of men are these who could do such...and then we hear all this about Armenian women being put on a pedestal etc - well this doesn't buy it IMO...and this is indicative of the problems inherent in a "traditional" relatiohship...its more akin to slavery...and makes no sense to me what so ever...sure its good for men with real self image issues and women who are just too ignorant/uninformed to know better...

[CheekY]

i think they use violence to "teach" their wives a lesson... they can't accept that a woman can actually have a mind of her own and want to do some things her way! <_<

once i heard a guy say if the wife doesn't obey her "man"(in this case) he should just bang on her head once and she'll be good again... i don't know if it was a joke or if he was serious but i was REALLY offended!!

 

psychos!!

 

 

at first they're like " :yes:" then after the wedding

[Stormig]

Sometimes I wonder what being an Amazon would've been like. Looks pretty cool, actually.

[CheekY]

...wouldn't you rather grow up "without" a father(see him a few times a month and all) than grow up seeing your mom get beaten up and/or sworn at all the time? that way you wouldn’t know what your dad is really like and you’d love him more…maybe…

 

 

Mama please stop cryin'

I can't stand the sound

Your pain is painful and it's

Tearing me down

 

I hear glasses breakin'

As I sit up in my bed

I told dad you didn't mean

Those nasty things you said

You fight about money

'Bout me and my brother

And this I come home to

This is my shelter

 

It ain't easy, growin' up in world war 3

Never knowin' what love could be

You'll see, I don't want love to destroy me

Like it has done my family

 

Can we work it out (Can we)

Can we be a family (Can we)

I promise I'll be better (I promise)

Mommy I'll do anything (I'll do anything)

Can we work it out

Can we be a family

I promise I'll be better

Daddy please don't leave

 

Daddy please stop yelling (stop)

I can't stand the sound (can't stand the sound)

Make mama stop cryin'

'Cause I need you around (yeah yeah yeah)

My mama she loves you (I know it)

No matter what she says is true

I know that she hurts you

But remember I love you too!

 

I ran away today, ran from the noise

Ran away (ran away)

Don't wanna go back to that place

But don't have no choice, no way

 

It ain't easy, growin' up in world war 3

Never knowin' what love could be

But I've seen, I don't want love to destroy me

Like it did my family

 

Can we work it out (Can we work it)

Can we be a family

I promise I'll be better (I promise)

Mommy I'll do anything (Anything to keep you back)

Can we work it out

Can we be a family

I promise I'll be better (I promise I promise)

Daddy please don't leave

 

In our family portrait (In our family portrait)

We look pretty happy (We look pretty happy)

Let's play pretend, let's act like it

Comes naturally

I don't wanna have to split the holidays (no no)

I don't want two addresses (no no)

I don't want a stepbrother anyway

And I don't want my mom to have to change her last name!

 

In our family portrait

We look pretty happy

We look pretty normal

Lets go back to that

In our family portrait

We look pretty happy

Lets play pretend, act like it

Goes naturally

 

In our family portrait (Can we work it out)

We look pretty happy (Can we be a family)

We look pretty normal (I promise I'll be better)

Lets go back to that (Mommy I'll do anything)

In our family portait (Can we work it out)

We look pretty happy (Can we be a family)

Lets play pretend (I promise I'll be better)

Act like it goes naturally,(Daddy please don't leave)

Oh lets go back Oh lets go back

 

In our family portrait (Can we work it out)

We look pretty happy (Can we be a family)

We look pretty normal (I promise I'll be better)

Lets go back to that (Mommy I'll do anything)

In our family portait (Can we work it out)

We look pretty happy (Can we be a family)

We look pretty normal (I promise I'll be better)

Lets go back to that (Daddy please don't leave)

 

don't leave.. don't leave.. Daddy don't leave..

don't leave.. Daddy don't leave..

Daddy don't leave.. Daddy don't leave.. Daddy dont leave...

don't leave.. don't leave..

 

Remember that the night you left

You took my shining star

Daddy dont leave..

Daddy dont leave..

Daddy dont leave..

 

Mama'll be nicer

I'll be so much better

I'll tell my brother

I won't spill the milk at dinner

I'll be so much better

I'll do everything right

I'll be your little girl forever

I'll go to sleep at night

Edited December 28, 2003 by skittles

[Shahumyan]

Abuse in the family is one of the highest in the world in Armenia. ***ed up chauvenism...disgusting

[CheekY]

Men who abuse, women that stay

What you should know about domestic violence

By Mark Servis, M.D. -- UC Davis Medical Center

Published 5:30 a.m. PDT Friday, April 19, 2002

 

We live in a society in which anger and rage are increasing. People show their anger on the road, in the workplace, at school, and at home. While expressing anger verbally can be healthy if it is done appropriately, expressing anger by physically harming another person is never justified. Yet nearly 1.5 million women are physically abused by their husband or live-in-partner each year.

If you or someone you know is in an abusive relationship, understanding the dynamics of the situation can help you or your friend find the courage to escape.

 

Abuse is never the woman's fault

 

The first thing that a woman in an abusive relationship needs to realize is that she is not to blame for the abuse. No woman ever deserves to be hit, punched, kicked, or otherwise physically harmed. Men who tell women that violence is their fault are trying to excuse their own inability to handle their anger appropriately. Violence comes from the man, it is his fault, and it is always inexcusable.

Although women are never to blame for being abused, women who get into abusive relationships often do so repeatedly, and such women have certain shared characteristics. Think about your relationship patterns. If you have been in more than one abusive relationship, you may subconsciously seek out men who will be abusive. Women who repeatedly get into abusive relationships were often abused by a parent or another significant person early in life or witnessed parental abuse. Because of early exposure to abuse, these women equate love with abuse and think that it is a normal part of love. This belief is often subconscious, and women may have difficulty recognizing the relationship pattern in themselves.

A woman's tendency to repeatedly become involved in abusive relationships does not mean that she is responsible for the abuse. The responsibility always lies with the perpetrator. However, women who are vulnerable to getting into abusive relationships can benefit from counseling to help them recognize and seek out healthy, non-abusive partnerships.

 

What are the characteristics of abusive men?

 

A woman who has been in an abusive relationship in the past is at risk for being in one again. By recognizing this risk, a woman can be alert for certain warning signs in a man that might indicate abusive tendencies. When trying to determine if a man might be prone to violence, it is important to realize that physical abuse typically does not begin until a couple becomes intimate. In the early stages of dating, if physical intimacy is limited and the couple do not spend nights together, abuse is not likely to occur. Once the couple begin living together or spending lots of time together, abusive tendencies may surface.

Past behavior is generally a good indicator of future behavior. If you know that a man has been abusive to women in the past, you should stay away from him. Do not assume that you can "cure" him or that if you just love him "enough" he will not be abusive. The problem is within him, and unless he seeks professional help in controlling his anger, he will continue the pattern of abuse.

Additionally, abusive men usually have a combination of personality traits. While the presence of these traits doesn't always mean that a man will be abusive, they can serve as warning signs. The traits include:

 

•Excessive need to control others, particularly the woman

•Frequent and inappropriate jealousy

•Paranoid tendencies; being overly vigilant about certain activities

•Being overly suspicious of others

•Being possessive of the woman and overly vigilant about her activities

•Alcohol or drug abuse

 

Since you cannot always be objective about the man you are dating, you might want to ask a friend's opinion. Invite your new boyfriend to dinner with a best friend or take him to a family event. Have him meet and interact with friends and family and let them see how he behaves. Then ask for their insights. They may see warning signs of abuse that you cannot recognize. While your may see his attentiveness as loving and caring, your friends may recognize it as being overly possessive. If your friends think the man might be abusive and you have been in an abusive relationship before, trust their opinion and end the relationship.

If the man you are dating repeatedly refuses to meet your friends or family, that in itself is a warning sign. Abusive men often do not want to meet their partner's family or friends because they want to maintain an exclusive relationship with the woman. Abusive men with a history of violence may fear exposing their relationship to scrutiny from others who will hold them accountable for their violent behavior.

 

How should women handle violence?

Physical violence usually doesn't come out of nowhere. Typically, it begins with yelling and extreme agitation. Then it escalates to the point where the violence begins. Women need to heed the warnings and physically remove themselves (and their children) before the situation gets violent. If there is any indication that a man is about to become violent -- especially if he is angry and intoxicated -- you should get away from him. Don't try to calm him down or reason with him when he is angry and violence seems likely.

 

Recognizing the pattern of abuse

 

After a man physically abuses a woman, he usually apologizes and promises never to do it again. He may "blame" her and tell her that if she just did what he wanted, it would not have happened. Women need to understand that this is simply not true. He is responsible for his actions and you should never blame yourself or apologize for whatever led to the violence. Don't think that if you just try "harder" to give him what he needs, he won't hit you. Although you may have done something that upset him, he is never justified in harming you physically and you never "deserve" it.

When a woman loves a man and wants the relationship to work, she may excuse or minimize the behavior. She may think that the abuse will go away when "things get better" (He gets a job, they get their own house, they get married). But if he has abused once, he will abuse again. Once a man has crossed the threshold into violence, it will be easy for him to regress.

 

Can abusers be treated?

 

Since abuse is not the woman's fault, she needs to realize she cannot do or say anything to get the man to stop. The abuse is coming from inside him and until he deals with his own patterns of behavior, he will be unable to stop. Even if the man apologizes and promises to get help, he is unlikely to do so. It is extremely rare in the context of an ongoing abusive relationship for a man to genuinely seek help and stop the abuse.

If a woman truly desires to help a man deal with his abusive tendencies, she needs to take a tough love, non-enabling approach. This means she must leave the man and tell him that he has to get help in order for the relationship to resume. He needs to prove that he means it when he says, "I'm sorry." The woman must set clear boundaries that include specific steps that the man needs to take, including:

 

•Ongoing professional counseling that addresses why he is abusive and that helps him find appropriate ways to deal with anger

•Evidence that he is committed to changing (keeping the counseling appointments)

•Evidence that he is changing (less possessiveness and jealousy and the ability to get angry without being violent)

•Couples' counseling before the two reconcile

 

Once a man begins to take these steps, the woman needs to be patient. She should not move back with the man simply because he is getting help.

Sometimes, the only thing that will motivate a man to get help is if the woman leaves him.If he genuinely recognizes that the problem is his, he will seek help. But a woman should not expect an abusive man to meet her ultimatum. In many instances, he will allow her to leave, he will find another relationship, and his violence will continue.

 

Where can women get help?

 

Women often stay in abusive relationships because they feel financially trapped. Many communities have organizations that help women leave abusive relationships. In Sacramento, WEAVE (Women Escaping a Violent Environment) offers emergency shelter and counseling to abused women and their children. Religious organizations and family and friends are also sources of help. Don't be afraid to reach out and admit that you need help.

Once you leave an abusive relationship, take some time to understand yourself and how you got into the situation. Get individual counseling or join a support groups with women who have had similar experiences. Find people to hold you accountable so that you won't get into the same situation again.

 

Breaking the cycle of abuse

 

Abuse has a devastating effect on children, and through children, abuse is perpetuated. Even if children are not physically abused, they suffer serious emotional damage from being in a home where abuse occurs. Boys who grow up in abusive homes are likely to become abusers; girls are likely to become victims.

Girls who witness their mother being abused, may unconsciously seek out boys who treat them the same way. Women who have been in abusive relationships and are doing their best to free themselves from that pattern should sit down with their daughters, acknowledge the problem, and let the daughter know that such behavior from a man is wrong.

If you suspect that your teenage daughter is in an abusive relationship, try to have a close friend, a trusted female teacher, or another female relative talk to her about it. Help her to see that you understand what she is going through and that she needs to get out of the relationship.

Remember that the best way to protect your children from the physical and psychological effects of domestic violence is to take care of yourself. Recognize the long-term impact that your being abused is having on your children. Take action now to get out and find safety.

[America-Hye]

Ther are also abusive women. I was married to one. I would remain non-violent when she would punch, kick me and throw shoes at me. She once broke all the windows in the house. The neighbors called the police.

[Stormig]

Now I understand you better, Amerikanski-Hye. Now I can accept you for what you are.