Why Are There Armenian Protestants?

[Boghos]

Sako*****,

Given that you are and will always be a Ramgavar (one day we might find you in the rare species list...) how can you explain your antagonism to Liberal Democratic values? and even competition.

Let the Armenian Apostolic Church compete.Why should we be afraid of Mormons, Jehova Witnesses?Let the people choose.

[Stormig]

They refuse to serve in the military and go cry to the Human Rights Organizations and then they say Armenia is not respecting human rights.If a person does not want to follow the laws of the nation let them get the hell out,and this goes for any nation.

I have an especially hard time when I think of Israel and the treatment pacifists receive (remember Netanyahu's nephew?). I respect pacifists as much as I respect others. You overlook the fact that countries are not blocks, not like a school of anchovies all swimming in one direction, and they shouldn't be. You're forgetting who is there for whom - the regime for the people or the people for the regime? Why do I get a "might is right" feeling there? And remember that Saudi Arabia's regime has gone retrogressive - it is one thing for your mother to go there covered up than to have to wake up one morning having to cover up when yesterday she didn't have to. Got the perspective? Or how about if tomorrow Christians are forbidden their worship? Do Christian Arabs and others simply have to "respect" that and leave to avoid persecution? If that "respect" is all holy and what-not, then what exactly were the grievances of the Christian subjects of the Ottoman sultan?

[Boghos]

Very well said, Stormig. And more: the problem of religion in Armenia is not the sects, it is the Apostolic Church itself that doesn´t know how to reach for the people aside from celebrating weddings, baptisms and having an honour table at events.

[Arpa]

Sako*****,

------

Let the Armenian Apostolic Church compete.Why should we be afraid of Mormons, Jehova Witnesses?Let the people choose.

Yes indeed Boghos, "why shoud we be afraid"?

Once again we seem to speak from a position of weakness. Yes indeed Boghos why should the Mother Church be scared of those “garbage movements”? Is it not time to look inward and try and listen to what is being said?

 

I plead guilty for having diverted the debate with my mention of Jehovahs’ and Mormons.

 

If you read my post above you will see that I mentioned them in comparison to the Protestant movement. Once again, read my post above and the URLs presented to see that the so called Protestant movement started within the Mother Church, you will see that the main actors were clergy of the Mother Church and or high ranking officers. We cannot say the same for the converts of today. How many priests have joined or advocated those cults? Close to 200 years ago the so called Protestant movement was an attempt to reform the Church from within, they had no intention to secede until they were fiercely censured and excommunicated, only then they seceded and sought the help of the missionaries, not by design but by default.

 

It is very difficult to understand what was happening then. If one were to look at the Mother Church today one would not recognize it. The Apostolic Church of today is totally unrecognizable compared to what it was 200 years ago. Specially those in the Diaspora, but more so in the so called western communities. Aside from a few doctrinal and theological aspects the Armenian Church of today is more “protestant” than some Protestant churches. Today the church is practically governed by the lay, the pastor having to do with its religious aspect, even that at times is not totally exclusive. The day to day operation of the church is totally governed by the lay church council. The priest/pastor can’t even touch the treasury neither can he make decisions about real estate or the maintenance thereof, although the treasury thing may not yet be completely out of reach of the pastor, recently there was a huge fiscal scandal in one of our local churches. Today’s church may not be recognizable compared to that of 200 years ago. Nowadays churches of the Mother See have church councils, youth groups, couples’ clubs, bible study groups, ladies’ auxiliaries , sports groups, cultural clubs…. finish the list, lastly but not the least the Mothers Church has more highly educated clergy with many with PhDs and what not. You will see that most, if not all the preceding phenomenon are western concepts. “Protestant”? You mean to tell me that the Apostolic Church of today is more “protestant” than the Protestant Church?

 

Once again. In the light of all above it will be very difficult for us to see and understand what was happening 200 years ago.

 

In conclusion. Let us please not bring in Jehovahs and Mormons into this debate, I did, MY FAULT! Just to show the difference, as the spirit of this debate is about “protestants”, and we will be hard pressed to call those cults “protestant”, as to why some are joining tose garbage cults? Your guess is as good as mine. As above, the evangelical movement began within the Mother Church and its purpose was to introduce some reforms rather than secede. Would there be a protestant movement today? Probably not. Look above and see how far the Mother Church has come since.

 

Bringing the Mormons and other morons into this debate is totally irrelevant and at times shows how ill prepared we are to intelligently debate the issue at hand.

Edited November 21, 2006 by Arpa

[Boghos]

Yes, dear Arpa. I agree.

I also was not aware of the genesis of the Armenian Evangelical Church. Thanks for that.

Finally, enough of victimization and weakness.This is the most damaging trait we get from the centuries of Ottoman domination and the AG.All my efforts have been directed towards as much as possible eradicating this horrible phenomenon.

[RemainFaithful]

Arpa, since you mentioned the cults, I have to say here that the Armenian Apostolic Church in Armenia and mainly some priests in Armenia still consider the Armenian Evangelical Church as one of the cults.

[Arpa]

Arpa, since you mentioned the cults, I have to say here that the Armenian Apostolic Church in Armenia and mainly some priests in Armenia still consider the Armenian Evangelical Church as one of the cults.

How is that different from those who claim that this whole thing of Jesus movement, i.e. Christianity is a "cult" itself? Remember the early days (presecution) of Christianity be it in Rome or Vagharshapat?

[RemainFaithful]

I was trying to put a difference between the Western and Eastern Dioceses of today and how each view the Armenian Evangelical Church differently.

[Takoush]

I was trying to put a difference between the Western and Eastern Dioceses of today and how each view the Armenian Evangelical Church differently.

Remain Faithful:

 

From my understanding of your explanations here; then whereas the Armenian Apostolic Church in Armenia doesn't have an open mind and acceptance of the Evangelical Church as they view them as cults; but the Armenian Apostolic Church of Antelias does. Interesting.

 

Hopefully give it time; maybe in the future they too may accept the Evangelical Church as Antelias does now. Hopefully in the near future.

Edited November 21, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

[RemainFaithful]

We should note here that the Armenian Evangelical Church was born in the Mother Church of Bolis (Istanbul) in 1846, and not in the Mother Church of Echmiadzin. Moreover, the Armenian Evangelical Church spread and sprouted churches mostly in Cilicia and Western Armenia in general.

[Arpa]

At the risk of repeating myself, note that beside the fact that the Disporan Church had had extensive contact with the Armenia Evangelicals and witnessed their successes.As mentioned before not Only HH Aram I received his higher education in western colleges he received his advanced theological training at NRST in Beirut, (and I dare say they were probably good friends with the likes of Rev. Janbazian) the Armenian Evangelical seminary. In addition HH Garegin I, before advancing his theological education in western seminaries, some Catholic, he received his BA at AUB, another protestant academy. That may explain the more cordial relationship between the “protestants” and the See of Kilikia, they may have seen that the so called protestants don‘t have horns coming out of their heads.

Kersam Aharanian the highly respected Ramgavar activist, intellectual, editor and writer was the Brother of Rev. Aharanoian, the president of NEST for a long period.

 

Yes RF, I stand corrected in re Mother Church, I was using more generic terms v Mother See. As far as that gooes both Kiliia and Ejmiatsin are Mother Churches respectively and respectfully.

 

In conclusion. We may have many enemies and detractors, thank you, let us not create new and old ones in addition.

 

One more important point. Even though the Armenian Cathloics are fiercely patriotic in their own way, the difference is that unlike they the Evangelicals don’t advocate for the Mother Church to abdicate and join the Pope’s flock. Evangelicals have great respect towards the Mother Church except, all they want is let us do things our way and you do it your way as long as the outcome is the sole benefit of the Motherland and the nation in general.

[Arpa]

Remain Faithful:

 

From my understanding of your explanations here; then whereas the Armenian Apostolic Church in Armenia doesn't have an open mind and acceptance of the Evangelical Church as they view them as cults; but the Armenian Apostolic Church of Antelias does. Interesting.

 

Hopefully give it time; maybe in the future they too may accept the Evangelical Church as Antelias does now. Hopefully in the near future.

Once again my sincere apologies for bringing the Jehovahs and Mormons into the picture. They have nothing to do with the debate at hand. Not only that the Evangelicals regard them with even more suspicion and didain. Perhaps a strong Evangelical church in Armenia can halp stem those invasions as they will offer those searching a more healthy alternative, without jeopardizing the love for the Homeland and sacrificing its welfare and propsperity.

 

Anahid, things are a little, yes much different now. If mainly because, as mentioned above the Mother See and its adherents , just as the See of Kilikia came to learn that “evangelicals don’t have horns”. Examples are many. Recently the Armenian Evangelical church of Yerevan purchased the former building of theUS embassy** and they have big projects, and that right under the nose of the Catholicos so to speak. The AUA (American University of Armenia) was a brainchild of Mihran Aghbabian, the son of Rev. Aghbabian, and the school is mainly supported by the evangelicals and the AGBU. In fact, one of my sojourns in Yerevan coincided with the graduation exercises of AUA, and a bunch of us attended, their first graduation, and guess who was the keynote speaker. Yep! HH Garegin I himself.

The Catholicos and the leaders of the Arm. Evangelicans have had many kssiy huggy cordial meetings, they sill do while those of us in the diaspora still go by old haggard fables and divisive disputes.

In one of the videos I have, don’t quote me which now, as to what occasion, there is a big gathering at St. Vartan Cathedral in NY, Rev. Janbazian was seated at front row with many other dignitaries, and guess who was joining in singing all the sharagsans from memory! Which Apostolic Armenian can do that, perhaps besides the clergy or a member of the choir?

 

**

Here is that story. You can see more here;

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:l2kVVJ...t=clnk&cd=1

AMAAAcquires New Headquarters In Yerevan

Purchase Of Former U.S. Embassy Paves Way For

AMAA Outreach Throughout Armenia

 

Weekly

August 26, 2006

The Armenian

Missionary Association

of America (AMAA)

has purchased the

former U.S. Embassy

in Armenia from the

U.S. State Department.

Plans are already un-

derway to convert the

existing buildings into

the AMAA central head-

quarters for all of Ar-

menia, Karabagh, Geor-

gia, and Russia.

Negotiations had

been in progress for

more than a year and a

half when AMAA Ex-

ecutive Director An-

drew Torigian made a

special trip to Armenia to seal the pur-

chase agreement. The embassy complex

occupies almost an acre of prime land on

Baghramian Street. Known also as Em-

bassy Row, Baghramian Street is

Yerevan's equivalent of Fifth Avenue.

Transforming the embassy build-

ings to AMAA's needs will require con-

siderable effort and cost. For example,

an existing auditorium will be redesigned

to serve as an Armenian Evangelical

church, as well as for secular events. In

the meantime, however, it will be the site

of a major celebration marking the 160th

anniversary of the Armenian Evangelical

Church (1846).

In addition to administrative of-

fices, the complex will house the AMAA

Evangelical Theological Academy of Ar-

AGBU has been designation as an

income beneficiary, along with the Ameri-

can University of Armenia, of the Jack

Munushian Charitable Trust estimated

menia and the Nerses and Arpine Aynilian

Medical Center, serving all needy Arme-

nians without charge. Further, the AMAA

will administer all of its orphan and needy

child support programs, currently serv-

ing more than 2,800 children throughout

Armenia, plus its milk program which

helps nourish over 1,000 infants.

Ample space will be designated for

Christian education programs, Bible

study, and the coordination of AMAA's

many humanitarian projects for Armenia

and Karabagh.

Engineering and design are under-

way. Though no time-line has been set

for total completion, the transformation

process will move rapidly. Purchase cost

Edited November 21, 2006 by Arpa

[aSoldier]

Progress is not about changing history. Progress is about changing the future. So I don't really understand what you mean. Do I think the Church needed progress in the past? Sure. There's not much any of us can do about that now. But that doesn't mean we should think that since now will be the history of the future, we should't change anything because we are living history.

 

Sure,

 

but look what you said here.

 

Sako**** is saying you should at least have respect toward the AAC because our beautiful culture, identity and lifestyle was built around it. You love being Armenian don't you?

[Sako_Aper]

I think churches and religion is going to become a thing of the past. Not now, maybe not in our lifetime, but people seem to be furthering away from it. Don't get me wrong, it is still a very strong institution and does many things around the world.

 

I don't understand why someone would change their religion. Our ancestors fought for it and died, the least we can do is at least say we are Apostolic Christians.

[annannimusss]

Sako Aper,I could not agree with you more.

[Arpa]

This will be my last post in this subject, and I do it reluctantly.

Language like the one below by Sako makes one wonder how much/less is known about the subject, if only semantically.

=====

I don't understand why someone would change their religion. Our ancestors fought for it and died, the least we can do is at least say we are Apostolic Christians.

Phrases like “change their religion” makes one wonder if we are talking from a position of knowledge or from a lack thereof. Yes, some Christian Armenians did “change their religion” at the tip of the sword and became Muslim Turks. I know, I know the word “religion” above was loosely used, yet it shows how little we know about the subject at hand, and our reluctance to search and learn.

Protestantism, Catholicism, orthodoxy etc. are not religions, they are denominations. Christianity, Islam etc. are religions. Denominations are parts of the same religion with maybe slight doctrinal differences. In the Christians religion various denominations all recognize Jesus as the central figure. Sometimes people use the word “sect” as if it were a synonym to denomination. It is not. Sect may be best illustrated by divisions in the Muslim religion. The Sunnis regard Mohammed as the central figure and the ultimate prophet while the Shiites insist that Ali is the central figure and the ultimate prophet. Allow me to say this. As to sect applied within Christianity the catholics come closest as they practically and virtually place Mary ahead of Jesus.

 

With confusion, prejudice and lack of knowledge of the kind we can argue from here until the Second Coming.

Argue all you want.

Please include me out. I will leave here and go and try find some other ways to divide the nation. How is “native” v “diasporan”, after all they have different “religions” too. Those "stupid" Yerevanites say “gnum em” when we all know that the only and correct way is “gertam gor”.

BTW. Religion is "kron" in Armenian and denomination is "haranvanutyun".

Edited November 22, 2006 by Arpa

[Takoush]

Sako Aper:

 

What Arpa is trying to tell you - if I may bud in - is that we're a small nation and certainly very small communities around the globe scattered around. Although most of us are Christians, including myself; but that doesn't mean that everyone is or should be. You or I cannot or should not push our religions or denominations onto others as they should not push it to us. You cannot expect everyone to be like yourself to accept them, to respect them and or to love them. I grew to love these people in this community because they are lovely people. In most respects they think like me for the love of Armenia and patriotism in the diaspora. Yes we have argued sometimes; but I still love them. They also grew on me.

 

But the fact of the matter is that whether they are 'grabashd' atheists or agnostics; it doesn't matter, I still think they're great. Remember before our nation accepted Christianity we were all 'grabashd's' and we have changed haven't we? We have evolved and you cannot say that we didn't. As someone or someone's have said it in here before me, culture has always been evolved in time and that's the course of life and of living. Culture in itself if it hasn't been evolved, we wouldn't have come a long way from where it was centuries ago. Yes certain things in culture doesn't change much, such as our language; but a great many other things do change.

 

Basically, accept these fine people as they are and they'll surely accept your ways and try to move on. After all, we have a great thing in common {our Armenia and the fact that we are all Armenians here trying to work for the good of our cause}

[RemainFaithful]

 

I don't understand why someone would change their religion. Our ancestors fought for it and died, the least we can do is at least say we are Apostolic Christians.

 

 

Sako Aper, the Armenian Evangelicals are Armenian and they stayed Armenian and opened schools and churches, educated men and women, catholics, apostolics, and evangelicals, without discrimination.

 

Unfortunately, very few know about the history of the Armenian Evangelical Church. Some think that they are related to Martin Luther and Protestanism (in fact, the only relation is that both wanted reforms within their churches). Others think that they are a cult, like Jehovah's Witnesses (the things that resemble are that the Armenian Evangelical Churches' badarak is simple, the language is not krapar, and they evangelize using verses from the Bible).

 

If someone has any doubts, questions regarding the Armenian Evangelical Church, I would be glad to answer, as accurate as possible.

[onnig]

Unfortunately, very few know about the history of the Armenian Evangelical Church. Some think that they are related to Martin Luther and Protestanism (in fact, the only relation is that both wanted reforms within their churches). Others think that they are a cult, like Jehovah's Witnesses (the things that resemble are that the Armenian Evangelical Churches' badarak is simple, the language is not krapar, and they evangelize using verses from the Bible).

 

The badarak is NOTHING like the communion service at an Armenian Evangelical Church. If it is the same, except the old krapar, then they are both heretical. Read the following article and see for yourself:

 

http://www.armeniansforchrist.com/modules....ticle&sid=9

 

 

[Arpa]

The badarak is NOTHING like the communion service at an Armenian Evangelical Church. If it is the same, except the old krapar, then they are both heretical. Read the following article and see for yourself:

 

http://www.armeniansforchrist.com/modules....ticle&sid=9

Dear Onnig, we love you. You seem to be a true Christian. Please don't take us as idiots. We know the Bible as much as you if not more. We all know the good and the disgustingly bad as well.

In another thread you wrote and quoted many passages. ;

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=59...mp;#entry222646

And here you write about “Communion/Haghortanq/Haghortutiun”. I am sure that you know the true meaning of “communion” which in the Armenian version in fact means “communication”. With all the symbolism of the “blood and flesh of Jesus” aside. Read again, it means “communication”.

With all the Biblical passages you quote you seem to forget this;

Mathew 6;5...

[5] And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

[6] But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

[7] But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

[9] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

 

5«Եւ երբ աղօթես, չլինե՛ս կեղծաւորների նման, որոնք սիրում են ժողովարաններում եւ հրապարակների անկիւններում աղօթքի կանգնել, որպէսզի մարդկանց երեւան. ճշմարիտ եմ ասում ձեզ, ա՛յդ իսկ է նրանց վարձը։ 6Այլ դու երբ աղօթես, մտի՛ր քո սենեակը, փակի՛ր քո դռները եւ ծածո՛ւկ աղօթիր քո Հօրը, եւ քո Հայրը, որ տեսնում է, ինչ որ ծածուկ է, կը հատուցի քեզ յայտնապէս։ 7Աղօթք անելիս շատախօս մի՛ լինէք ինչպէս հեթանոսները, որովհետեւ նրանք կարծում են, թէ իրենց շատ խօսքերի պատճառով լսելի կը լինեն։ 8Արդ, նրանց չնմանուէ՛ք, որովհետեւ ձեր Հայրը գիտէ, թէ ինչ է ձեզ պէտք, նախքան որ դուք նրանից մի բան ուզէք։ 9Եւ արդ, դուք այսպէ՛ս աղօթեցէք». 10«Հա՛յր մեր, որ երկնքում ես. սո՛ւրբ թող լինի քո անունը. 11քո թագաւորութի՛ւնը թող գայ. քո կա՛մքը թող լինի երկրի վրայ, ինչպէս որ երկնքում է՛. 12մեր հանապազօրեայ հացը տո՛ւր մեզ այսօր. 13եւ ների՛ր մեզ մեր յանցանքները, ինչպէս որ մենք ենք ներում նրանց, որ յանցանք են գործում մեր դէմ. 14եւ մի՛ տար մեզ փորձութեան, այլ փրկի՛ր մեզ չարից. որովհետեւ քո՛նն է թագաւորութիւնը եւ զօրութիւնը եւ փառքը յաւիտեանս. Ամէն:

Yes, many of us flaunt our faith in public, take "comminication", light candles and exhibitionistacally cross their faces, yet there are many more who recede in their innermost chambers to pray and communicate just as Jesus prescribes above. I would love to see those who exhibitionistically cross their faces to go to Furkey and teach them how to cross one's face. In other words. Can we stop "preaching to the choir"?

How are you different from those "missionaries" who could not preach to the 'infidel/muslim furk" and insted turned to preaching to the "already Christian Armenian"? Some of whom seem to know the Bible more than you.

And, please come back after you learn that the Aremenian Apostolic Church is none other than a part of the Universal TIEZERAKAN/Catholic CHURCH

Edited January 3, 2008 by Arpa

[Arad9]

The badarak is NOTHING like the communion service at an Armenian Evangelical Church. If it is the same, except the old krapar, then they are both heretical. Read the following article and see for yourself:

 

http://www.armeniansforchrist.com/modules....ticle&sid=9

What does heretical mean?

[Arad9]

Many people don't understand the Badarak like the link Onnig provided. Show rejection basing on lack of understanding.

Heresy is rejection of the established teaching. Every church prior to the protest except it some form of Mass or Badarak even Luther and Calvin celebrated Badarak, to reject Badarak is a heresy.

In the Armenian Church we don't sacrifice Christ every Sunday we partake of the eternal lamb that was sacrificed once for all, this is in no way contradict scriptures. Jesus is The Lamb God provided we need to pray the Dervoghrmia and receive the Lamb in the Badarak for forgiveness of sins.

Christmas is coming we all need to prepare our hearts and make room for Christ.

 

[onnig]

Many people don't understand the Badarak like the link Onnig provided. Show rejection basing on lack of understanding.

Heresy is rejection of the established teaching. Every church prior to the protest except it some form of Mass or Badarak even Luther and Calvin celebrated Badarak, to reject Badarak is a heresy.

In the Armenian Church we don't sacrifice Christ every Sunday we partake of the eternal lamb that was sacrificed once for all, this is in no way contradict scriptures. Jesus is The Lamb God provided we need to pray the Dervoghrmia and receive the Lamb in the Badarak for forgiveness of sins.

Christmas is coming we all need to prepare our hearts and make room for Christ.

 

Well Christmas is here and hearts will be better prepared if they understand the heresy of the Badarak. My presentation of the Badarak is accurate, very accurate. I quote from the text itself and show the surrounding context. Anyone who has a basic understanding of english can see clearly that the Badarak is a sacrifce to atone for sin. The elements are transubstantiated into the actual body and blood of Christ. This IS the church doctrine. And so, those changed elements are ingested after they are offered up to God as a "true" sacrifice "continually perpetuated" even today. Read the article again and find these in the text. You have not answered any of the text I mentioned but are supplying your opinion and probably the opinions of priests who are uninformed of Scripture.

 

This is why there are Armenian protestants today, because they do not want to partake of these heresies perpetuated in the Armenian "Apostolic" Church.

[Arad9]

Well Christmas is here and hearts will be better prepared if they understand the heresy of the Badarak. My presentation of the Badarak is accurate, very accurate. I quote from the text itself and show the surrounding context. Anyone who has a basic understanding of english can see clearly that the Badarak is a sacrifce to atone for sin. The elements are transubstantiated into the actual body and blood of Christ. This IS the church doctrine. And so, those changed elements are ingested after they are offered up to God as a "true" sacrifice "continually perpetuated" even today. Read the article again and find these in the text. You have not answered any of the text I mentioned but are supplying your opinion and probably the opinions of priests who are uninformed of Scripture.

 

This is why there are Armenian protestants today, because they do not want to partake of these heresies perpetuated in the Armenian "Apostolic" Church.

 

I've read your link and this is why I point out your misunderstanding. The body and blood is a sacrifice but can you show anywhere where the church teach We are sacrificing Christ over again?

I've also point out no Church have denied the view of The Armenian Church even Luther and Calvin believed in the real body and blood, would you say they are heretics as well?

What is a heresy from your view is it if one doesn't understand the bible the way you do?

 

 

[Arpa]

Should not this debate be under the subject topic of Mythology?

Read on.

Dear Arad and Onnig, Our house theologians. I don’t understand even one word of what you both are saying, neither do I want to understand, theology is not one of my fortes and neither will it be. I would rather stick to mythology, it is more fun. Is not what you are doing tantamount to “beating water/jour tsetsel”?

Would you guys kindly tell us that the patarag is a native Armenian word and that it was invented by Christians Armenians. It is a Sanskrit Persian word that loosely means gif/offering** and the word was used many centuries before Christianity. And while we’re at you could also tells which of these words are Christian Armenian inventions. Is it “patriarch” which is a Latin word to mean “supreme/main father”, is it “vardapet” which in fact is a Persian word that means “temple guard” and it was used many centuries before Christianity, or is it “kahana” from the Assyrian to mean a” magician soothsayer”, it is also found in most of the Middle Eastern languages, consider the Judaic “cohen”. Maybe you think “sarkavag” is an Armenian word which is from the Persian “sar-kawak” to mean “head -servant”. Of course we cannot ignore “abegha”(monk) from the Assyrian to mean sad, lonesome, it is found in other neighboring languages, even Arabic “abeel/old man”- see below. Do please tell us which of these are Christian Armenian inventions. Not to forget “katholicos” which is a Greek word to mean “universal” like the Catholic church “tiezerakan”.

OK, could you guys please, before we sink deep into that highly sophisticated theological discussion tell us which of the above are native Christian Armenian inventions, including the “patarag”. To se what “offering” is read the OT, particularly Leviticus (that were written centuries before Christianity) and see the million prescriptions about animal sacrifice, and also see what Jesus did to the animal merchants at the temple.

The myth of Abel and Cain , sons of Adam and Eve is an allegory that deals with offering, patarag if you will, and it is not the only one in that Book. Btw, this myth is not of Judaic origin simply based on the fact it happens at or near the fabled Garden of Eden, which no matter where was not in Judea. And, as it is obvious it “happened?” millennia before Christianity. The story is an allegory, a parable to promote “animal sacrifice/offering”. To refresh our memory- Abel was in the business of animal husbandry and Cain was in agriculture. god (lower case G) demanded that they make offerings, naturally each brought the fruit of their profession, Abel - a young animal and Cain - fruit of his fields. As the myth goes god liked the former’s gift which eventually ended up Cain killing his brother Abel.***

 

And now,

 

DEAR THEOLOGIANS, DO PLEASE TELL US THAT THE RITE OF OFFERING/SACRIFICE/PATARAG IS A CHRISTIAN ARMENIAN INVENTION.

 

** Do remember that when we use the word “offering” it is only part of the full phrase of “burnt offering”, remember the Armenian word “voghjakez”- “burned/incinerated alive”.

***To Me the most disturbing part of this myth is that the good guy, Abel was murdered, and the murderer survived and, he being the only surviving male makes him the sole ancestor of mankind. Yeah! Tell us more ridiculous stories. Why is this stupid story even in the Bible?