Fearing Feminism?

[DoC]

Why do many people (men and women), armenian or other, fear the feminist label? What is it about feminism that threatens big, studly, "self-assured", armenian men? I want to hear other opinions before I express mine...

[shiner]

I think that lately the word "feminist" has become equivalent to the word "extremist". I know this is not the original meaning but that's how I see it being viewed. Today, in most people's eyes, a feminist is not merely someone who advocates women's rights and issues, but also someone who is overtaken by emotion in making controversial claims.

 

A typical feminist (as viewed by society) will probably tell you that an army made up entirely of women can perform just as well in combat as an army made up entirely of men. While there might be a few women who can fight, on average a large army composed entirely of men will always outperform a large army composed entirely of women. This is not a matter of opinion, it's just something physiological. There are many things men are better suited for than women, just as there are many things women are better suited for than men. The "feminist" (as viewed by society) fails to see that.

 

As far as the views of the Armenian male are concerned I think it has to do largely with country of origin. I apologize for generalizing but I think Armenian men who grew up in the Middle East, Iran, and Armenia, are more likely to feel as if they are entitled to "control" their women, make all decisions concerning the household by themselves, etc. I think that Armenians who grew up in Europe and the U.S. are less likely to have that mentality and "fear" of a women's independence. Again I'm sorry for generalizing as there are all types of individuals everywhere, but I do think that in the end it does have to do with cultural upbringing.

[Kazza]

[Artur]

I think complecated for your society as well. Look, all these arguments with wives, disagreement, sometime women don't even listen to their husbands etc. All this: i will do what i want to do, i will get this job and things like that. Well, the less complicated, is: No, i don't think it is good'. => Ok.

 

By the way have you seen American Beauty? It is disgusting, the right word is disgusting what kind of families there can be, how kids treat their parents etc. By the way film is so &$£$% ... it just shows the typical american family.

 

By the way whats that got to do with women intervening the business dialogs? I personally think women shouldn't intervene business at all, i.e. not discussing with your wife.

 

But the most funniest are the husbands of these wives, who submit themselves to their wives. Ah, i have lived in the English family when i was like 14. Check this picture:

 

Wife: Dave, are you going to wash the kids clothes or what..

Dave: Yes, my love, of course, my love...

 

Hehehe...

 

Anyways, enough of funny stories.

 

Take it easy.

 

By the way Kazza, if you say you are a feminist i will jump over the window, i won't believe...

 

Artur

[edg]

I don't know about fear of feminism but a turn off is more like it. Last semester I took a womens study class and all of the girls(including the professor ) did nothing but to bash on men. For 4 months I had to listen to their complaints...

P.S Dont get me wrong, I learned a lot of good stuff but the bad outweighed the good.

[Artur]

Well, DoC, first you have to change the word fear because it doesn't really make sence.

 

The thing is that, feminist is not an armenian girl or woman type thing, that is the answer.

 

Let me ask forum members if anybody can call herself a feminist?

 

BTac, you are right, i personally think that man has to make all decsions in the house rather than woman. I have relatives, that wouldn't even allow their wifes to sit in the same table when men are sitting. In my family women can not also sit around the table while men are discussing something, women cannot intervene business dialogs or something like that.

In Europe or America, families which have lived all their lives adopted the western mentality, which is for me too complecated . However, there are armenian families who live in the US or Europe still keeping the tradition and culture within the family.

 

I think, every woman should know her place in this life and understand her duties and what they are here on the earth for .

 

 

Artur

 

[ April 09, 2001: Message edited by: Artur ]

[Kazza]

You are PARTLY right about the men's mentality concerning the country they groew up in (growing up around the attitutes in siciety toward men and women) but I think it has loads to do with the upbringringing by (both!) parents the way men sees a woman.

 

Talking about fear of feminism, I have seen more from women than men. Mention feminism and most women also show disdain and dislike than men don't show,. More than men! However some men think it's "cute" and not serious. In some feminism conjures images of tank girl. Feminism is extreme, like most other things in life but what I would say to these women is to remeber the sufforagettes that got women the vote and leading onto other rights! Without that and the time , that was probably considered "Extreme" we would still not have the power and choices we do today. Though there is still a long way to go still.

 

Men's attitues change through the times also. These days in men living in the western world are pleased for women to have rights. I have no idea what it is like in the non-western world.

 

However, the way I see it, all things have extremes and so does femeinism. There are a lot of good things to be considered and taken from feminism and don't be scared of some thing different, or "Extreme", to BOTH sexes, because it might help you out in the future!

[Des]

Hi,

 

I am an Anglo-Chinese man of 27.

Must say that feminists are not my favourite people, not because of what they campaign for, but for their attitude. Almost all of them have a chip on the shoulder and I don't like that from anybody.

 

I grew up in a fairly unisex family and have no problems with women having equal say and rights. Many of my best friends (excluding lovers) are women.

However, when I was at university, I had many problems dealing with feminists because they first of all assume that ALL men have a problem with women's rights and act over-defensively, sometimes to the extent of insulting others just to prove their attitude. For example, I did a project with a feminist girl who told me every day I'm a chauvanist pig simply because I'm a straight man. Every time I disagreed with any of her opinions she would come up with arguments like "because you think I'm a woman so you can bully me!!!" etc.

 

There was this other feminist I know who breaks everything down to gender and blames men for ALL the wrong-doings of the world. She only sees gender, and not the truth. For example, if a man and a woman are arguing, she would always support the woman regardless of whether she is right or wrong. It is like many Africans who blame Europeans for ALL their problems.

 

Worst of all, I dislike feminists because they look down on, and even insult those women who do not support their clause.

 

I rest my case here...

[ARMINE36]

Artur you are making me scream!!!!!!!!

You treat women as if their not even people. What do you think we are??? Do you think that our heads are empty???? I would feel really really sorry for the woman who ends up with you or is even with you now. What kind of a person are you? Just because you are a man doesn't mean it gives you the right to rule over women. It's not your so-called "job" as a man. Get over it or go back to where you came from. It's guys like you that force me to stay away from Armenian guys.

[Pilafhead]

Artur: you sure know how to sweet talk the ladies, bro.

 

Armine: don't let him get under your skin, he enjoys ruffling people's feathers!

 

Mike

[Pilafhead]

In a nutshell, feminism is not simply pro-female, it also seems to be anti-male. That's the problem I have. You can be the former without the latter. I'm pro-Armenian, but not anti any other race (except for those greasy Italians ).

[Artur]

Armine jan, you have the wrong image.

 

I respect an Armenian girl as none in this world. I can never say a bad word to an armenian girl. And for me nothing can or coulb be more respected than an armenian girl.

 

And please don't say that i treat them bad. If tommorow i hear something outside Armenia happens to an Armenian girl, i will be there.

 

And moreover, if i made you unhappy or i insulted or offended you, you can have my apologies.

 

And please change the word "rule" over women, because it sounds like slaves, and i would never treat any armenian girl or woman like that.

 

I hope you understand.

 

With respect,

Artur

[Artur]

Armine jan, i never said that women are some subhuman, which cannot dicide what they do etc. You got me wrong here. Any Armenian girl has a will to do what she wants to do. However, in regard to my younger sister, i am her brother and whatever i do is good for her. I'd never be able to shout at her or something like that, because she gets my word from the first time.

 

The thing is that your brother only cares about you and for him there is nothing more important than you. It doesn't matter if he is younger or not, you are his sister. And if you go against it will really disapoint him in the way he sees you.

 

Brothers are there to protect their sisters. Make sure that she gets the best in this life, but what your brother does is the same. In every brother there is this feeling about his sister.

 

Moreover, my sister is way more intelegent than me in studying, piano, creating, when i was at her age. She is a little genius.

 

And pls don't say "stupid things like that". If you recon your brother says stupid things to you, then i question your respect to him. He asks this because you are his sister. And if someone looks at my sister i will break his neck. At the end of the day the world where are living is far away from perfect.

 

And this is not a habbit, it is feeling inside you, it is love for your sister and careness, and nothing else. And if we aren't there for our sisters who else will be?

 

Astvadz kez het!

 

Artur

[Artur]

""I agree with you in that I believe men and women are different. However, one is not better than the other, we're just different""

 

Agree! But i think women are even better in the most of the situations.

 

""Also, one's gender does not dictate any sort of rules for life. If women out there wants to drink beer and smoke cigars, fine let 'em""

 

Whatever other women do i don't care, but future mother of my chldren: No Way!

 

""Careful....fate is going to have you falling head of heels for a woman that rules you with an iron fist!""

 

Tu tu tu, touch the wood! No way, man...

 

Take care,

Artur

[DoC]

Artur, I think we need to find you a good old fashioned armenian nun to marry...

[Artur]

I already have 3 on my list But they are not nuns, simply Armenian girls


GOD be with you!
Artur

[Pilafhead]

Given that you feel this way, do you agree with your relatives that do not let women sit at the table during certain discussions?

I'm like you in that I respect my wife to the point where I'm pretty traditional in this day and age (I open doors for her when we go places, open her car door, I try to provide for her so that she only has to work part time, etc.). But where we differ is, I see her as my equal in all aspects.

I agree with you in that I believe men and women are different. However, one is not better than the other, we're just different. In a lot of our get togethers, the women and men are generally sitting apart not because of any rules, but because they're not interested in the other's conversations!

Also, one's gender does not dictate any sort of rules for life. If women out there want to drink beer and smoke cigars, fine let 'em; I'm sure there are men out there who want that (not me, but there's a foot for every shoe).

I agree with your goals (they're essentially the same as mine were/are): a happy, stable family with basically traditional husband/wife roles, but I think what you want/expect in a wife does not have to be how all women behave. Let the other 3,000,000,000 women out there run drunk in the streets for all I care.

Careful....fate is going to have you falling head of heels for a woman that rules you with an iron fist!

Mike

P.S. When we first started dating, it took my wife some time to get used to me opening doors. Now she likes it, but earlier on I'd practically have to wrestle the door handle out of her hand. Well, it wasn't really that bad, but I DID have to train her to let me be a gentleman.

[ April 19, 2001: Message edited by: Aghmug ]

[ARMINE36]

Artur - You respect the Armenian girl in that you want to protect her from "harm" and that's the only way. Why don't you start thinking of the Armenian girl as a human with her own mind and her own will to make decisions for once??

I have a brother who's a year younger than me, but guess what....he tries to act older than me. The only thing he cares about is who looked at me, who said this, or stupid things like that. He tries to control me and in his mind somewhere deep, he actually thinks he does...which he doesn't! This leads to a very troublesome relationship between the both of us. I can never talk to him about anything (he's the only sibling i have)out of fear that he might start saying stupid things, accuse me of wrong doing, just things like that. We have never had a normal conversation together. That really hurts because from what i notice, he doesn't see me as someone with her own feelings, but as just an object that needs to be protected from every stupid thing. I can take care of myself and if i need help, I'll ask for it.

 

I'm just trying to tell you that you should really stop that annoying habit of thinking that Armenian girls need to be protected because they can't take care of themselves. View us as normal people, please.