MJ Posted May 30, 2001 Report Share Posted May 30, 2001 Later... [ May 30, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted May 31, 2001 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2001 I thought this there was about Russia and Armenin, Business and Economy section. Oh, Naira, Naira, always creating havoc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted May 31, 2001 Report Share Posted May 31, 2001 OK! I'm not in a rush! Take your time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 quote:Originally posted by MJ:Berj, 1.After all, if Russia may be allowed to alienate itself from the Bolsheviks, then Turkey also should be allowed to alienate itself from the CPU.2.While socialism and communism were indeed not Russian phenomena, its Bolshevistic form of manifestation was purely Russian phenomenon, and what came to rule for decades was a purely Russian form of totalitarianism. As a matter of fact, the Bolshevism has been the remedy of the Russian Empire to preserve its dominance on the same traditional domain. The history of the victory of the Bolsheviks, under the circumstances when they were in reality an absolute minority in Russia, and the embracing of the Bolshevik rule by the old Czarist Guard of the Russian Empire has one explanation only – the Russian nationalists came to understand that the Bolshevism was the only way to preserve, moreover, to strengthen their empire. MJ,1.I think Turkey cannot alienate itself from CPU because the organisation of Genocide included different levels of the Ottoman Government and the population itself: - Organizers and decission makers - Local administration (actually some governors refused to carry out the orders)- Army and Kurdish groups Bolsheviks failed to help, but that does not include the Russian people.2.The 1917 February uprising, which brought to power the Russian finacial and industrial circles was Russia's attempt to move from feodalism to capitalism (by the Soviet classification of history). But the October 1917 events changed it all. Monarchy (or totalitarianism) existed in all European powers before their capitalist revolutions, but in case of Russia the move to capitlism was delayed for approx. 3 centuries because of the Mongolian conquest and its drastic consequences on the economic, political and culural thinking of Russia, and in political sence Russia remained "a baby" compared to its millitary and economic power. That "baby" political thinking allowed the intrusion of bolshevik thinking to Russia. And it was not a way to preserve its strength but rather an attmpt to delay its economic development. I think that was what happened to Russia between the terms from Ras-Putin to Putin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 quote:Originally posted by naira:Just off-topic question, MJ!If I'm mistaking, please, correct me.Today, I've remarked a strange change.Your username "MJ" is visible now in 'Who-s Online' section? Does it mean that you quit with your underground past? No. Just for a change.Always remember - whether you see me or not, I am always around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 Wow, sounds you start to shape your feeling for a style! Glad to be a part of that modest contribution! Welcome to Club! And yet, there are no rules, and the war didn't yet become, honeybunny!Chill out. That's an aperitif! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 Which Club? What war? I am as peaceful as it gets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 quote:Originally posted by MJ:Which Club? What war? I am as peaceful as it gets... ... and you avoid sexual games as well!Yeah, you are a saint, MJ!And I'm the devil, in that case! ---P.S.I've seen you abandoned a thread somewhere we were initiating a talk. Is this a lack of interest or may be smth else ...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 quote:Originally posted by naira:... and you avoid sexual games as well!Yeah, you are a saint, MJ!And I'm the devil, in that case! ---P.S.I've seen you abandoned a thread somewhere we were initiating a talk. Is this a lack of interest or may be smth else ...?have you heard of St.Martin of France? When you think of me, remember him. No. It's not a lack of interest. I just type from different computers. Will be on the other one soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 wow, looks like you are working out? I like men who are working out ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 I knew you'll like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 quote:Originally posted by MJ:I knew you'll like me. And you became invisible. Tell me, Julie!What the hell I'm doing here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 quote:Originally posted by naira:And you became invisible. Tell me, Julie!What the hell I'm doing here? Yeah, I put my invisible hat on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 So underground is cool, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 No difference. This year we enjoy an unusually cool weather, here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 wow, that's a big trouble!Sounds like "Baywatch" screenplay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 Don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 You never heard of Baywatch TV series?The one with Pamella Anderson and a bunch of hot guys diving with her to save peoples lives?You are not a true "American"That was for fun! Say cheee-zzz, honeybunny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 Cheee-zzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 quote:Originally posted by MJ:Cheee-zzzBig progress!Actually, you seem to be something alive? That's comforting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 Berj, I understand the logic of your arguments, however, still disagree with it.While the ideas of Socialism/Communism and World Revolution were imported to Russia, the Bolshevism was not. It was born there. Additionally, even if it would’ve been imported it wouldn’t have relieved Russia from its responsibility for the consequences of Bolshevism, nor the actions of Bolsheviks. After all, Russia still hasn’t given a political assessment to its Bolshevik past. Note that a very significant segment of the Russian population still is committed to the Bolshevik ideals. The most graphical evidence of it is perhaps Lenin’s extended tenure in the Mausoleum. Additionally, the Communist Party of Russia is perhaps the most, or at least almost the most, nationalistic element of the political spectrum of radical forces in Russia. It is not by coincidence, I think. To the contrary, Bolshevism, I think, is most genuine Russian political mentality. We have to also remember that, by in large, Russian (Czarist) generals and officers had pledged loyalty to the Bolshevik government. There were only a handful of them in opposition (Denikin, Kolchak, etc.). The fact also remains that the Bolsheviks established their hegemony exactly on the territory of the Russian Empire - more so effective 1930, when they absorbed the Caucasian Federation. Subsequently, the same mentality came to occupy the Baltic states, and the countries of Eastern Europe, which certifies that while th forms and the slogans were different, Bolsheviks had the same aspirations and the same geopolitical preferences as the Russian Empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 MJ, I think you're not following the present developments in Russia close enough, and whatever reasons there may be, their justified. I'm not trying to prove you anything. I'm just exchanging info with you. Boshevism was born in Russia but it was an illegal child. Russia will give the political assesment to the Bolshevism if the neo-Bolsheviks do not bring it back. Lenin remains in Mausoleum because Russia still do not have the idea of economic success in possession to replace the idea of the superpower which is connected with Bolshevism in the minds of the elderly, who are a significant portion of the population to create a social cataclism if disturbed. Russia needs some 5-10 years to change the generation and get the first results of economic success. If that happens nobody will keep that body there. The most radical force in Russia is Zhirinovski's LDP. Communists were too week to gain anything because their leader Zuganov is a very smart person (actually doctor of mathematics). You can't lead the masses to communism if you're smart, you need some charisma (read: foolishness). He failed to do that.Putin's base is the Edinstvo party, middle right, who formes the current govt. Yes, Czarist Generals, Toukhachevski, Bloukher some others did pledge loyalty to the Bolsheviks, but were almost all shot by Stalin, alonge with Trotski, Zinoviev, Kamenyev, Radek etc. The mid and low ranks of millitary often pledged loyalty regardless of who's in power. If the Bolsheviks had the same aspirations as the Russian Empire they would have never signed the Kars treaty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 quote:Originally posted by Berj:MJ,I think you're not following the present developments in Russia close enough, and whatever reasons there may be, their justified. I'm not trying to prove you anything. I'm just exchanging info with you.Boshevism was born in Russia but it was an illegal child. Russia will give the political assesment to the Bolshevism if the neo-Bolsheviks do not bring it back. Lenin remains in Mausoleum because Russia still do not have the idea of economic success in possession to replace the idea of the superpower which is connected with Bolshevism in the minds of the elderly, who are a significant portion of the population to create a social cataclism if disturbed. Russia needs some 5-10 years to change the generation and get the first results of economic success. If that happens nobody will keep that body there.The most radical force in Russia is Zhirinovski's LDP. Communists were too week to gain anything because their leader Zuganov is a very smart person (actually doctor of mathematics). You can't lead the masses to communism if you're smart, you need some charisma (read: foolishness). He failed to do that.Putin's base is the Edinstvo party, middle right, who formes the current govt.Yes, Czarist Generals, Toukhachevski, Bloukher some others did pledge loyalty to the Bolsheviks, but were almost all shot by Stalin, alonge with Trotski, Zinoviev, Kamenyev, Radek etc. The mid and low ranks of millitary often pledged loyalty regardless of who's in power.If the Bolsheviks had the same aspirations as the Russian Empire they would have never signed the Kars treaty.Berj,I think Russia's today's cataclisms are due to the presence of that "dead body" in the Mausoleum. They should remove him from their. If they are bad cowards , they can turn Lenin's Mausoleum in a public museum and let some western companies like Macdonalds, Virgin become cultural sponsors.Imagine Macdonalds inside mausoleum? Not bad heh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairakev Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 quote:Originally posted by Berj:No I don't Naira,Why are women trying to win on both fronts?To satisfy men, Berj!I thought you had found already the answer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted June 4, 2001 Report Share Posted June 4, 2001 quote:Originally posted by naira:Berj,I think Russia's today's cataclisms are due to the presence of that "dead body" in the Mausoleum. They should remove him from their. If they are bad cowards , they can turn Lenin's Mausoleum in a public museum and let some western companies like Macdonalds, Virgin become cultural sponsors.Imagine Macdonalds inside mausoleum? Not bad heh?Naira,Suppose they remove the body tomorrow and replace it with Ivan the Terrible's or Peter the Great's. Do you see any difference? As I have said they're waiting to repalce it with the alive body of economic success. And they want to open a "Traktir Fast Food" or "U Maxima" or "U Khachika" insead of McDonnalds. Actually, I didn't expect you to be a fast food fan, madmuaselle (or whatever the spelling is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.