Boghos Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Rubo:Boghos,Why ditching the challenge to clarify your definition of Disney Armenian( Thoth may fit in there as well, he’s got kids) Is it that hard Boghos? Or it is easier to insult, ridicule the Diaspora Armenians constantly on this forum! Or you think we are too stupid to distill your “essence”Rubo, Your paranoia is getting a bit tiresome. You jump out of nowhere screaming madly like some sad humpty-dumpty and even try to involve other people in your imbroglio. Why so much anger ? Ridicule the Diaspora Armenians constantly in this forum ? I think not. Those that deserve to be ridiculed do not need my help, they do it on their own. [ December 11, 2002, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Boghos ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fadi Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 Pleazzzzzzzzz..... Stop guys !!! I was gently reading this thread, answering with my silence, so please make me answer with my silence and not my posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyeoohy Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 Our fear should not be assimilation through intermarriage, rather, assimilation through a lack of "nationalism". For, when you don't have a sense of your own language, culture and history you will assimilate, period. It does not matter if your spouse is "odar". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 quote:Originally posted by MJ:Isn’t something that has a sole purpose of preservation called parasite?It very well maybe. But I can easily make the same argument for the entire human race (as far as the Earth is concerned). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Hyeoohy:Our fear should not be assimilation through intermarriage, rather, assimilation through a lack of "nationalism". For, when you don't have a sense of your own language, culture and history you will assimilate, period. It does not matter if your spouse is "odar".Hyeoohy, welcome to the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 11, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 Xeno-PHOBIAIs sending one's chldren to a one room facility that is smaller than the bathroom of a local community one, a one room caricature of a school fearing that thwey may be alineted. School, is where they lear the three Rs, reading, (w)riting and (a)rithemetic. Home is where they learn ®ethnic pride. My children went to community school. (That will give you a clue about my age, I mean about my chronological age. As to my emotional age... I am still a little boy, I said BOY. That will also dispel doubts about my gender)They are professionals in their own right, thank you, and they are proud Armenians, thank you again.Is it because at home they learned somethings about us beyond and above GENOCIDE, as my daughter would say; Yechh! Pooo! Not genocide again!! How disgusting!! Yes virginia, there is life after genocide. I did not preach them on genocide, the most shameful and disgussting era of out history. I showed them all that was noble and beautiful in our culture. Yes, they are proud armenians. Thank you again, and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 Rubo, please watch your words. If you do continue you will get a warning. I would also suggest you reread the code of conduct of the forum. And try not to get personal. I know it is hard sometimes in the heat of discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubo Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 Azat jan, I am sorry [ December 12, 2002, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: MosJan ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Rubo: quote:Originally posted by Boghos: quote:Originally posted by MJ:Isn’t something that has a sole purpose of preservation called parasite?That is a question that reveals the essence of the Disney Armenian.I am still waiting for an answear!I "me" "es" has nothing to do with this.I hope you are sitting down and have not fallen on the grass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 hmmm - lets not get personal !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 quote:Originally posted by sen_vahan:MJ, You may have some more in a place where you are now. About alternatives: maybe we need one but not in this forum but in a broader perspective.One way is to recon-st territories - unreal in my opinion, but historically proved to be the best way.Dear SV, I truly don't understand what you are saying. What territories are you talking about? And if something is unreal, how can it be an alternative? BTW, for three years I have lived where you live now. Even then I didn't feel that the only alternatives available to us are what you are suggesting. And where I live now, I think there are huge numbers of alternatives. I am even ready to share some of them with you. Interested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 11, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 quote:Originally posted by sen_vahan:"No it is not a fruit or anything. Prunus Armeniaca is. It is Apricot." Nice introduction "Does that mean we are cowards? You be the judge!" That's because we are weak!! WHY???Nice answer Vahan.You gave the right answer but you did not give the reason.Why are weak?Is it we are weak because we are xenophobic or are we xenophobic because we are weak? Is it the chicken or the egg? Which came first?Until and unless we get off of our mets voriks and do something about it, until we stop resting on our laurels (we don't have many), until we stop believing what our semi educated and uneducated gurus have to say about our culture, history and destiny, until we take our destiny in our own hands and stop relying on the others including but not limited to Yehova and Hisus (they seem to have better things to do in TelAviv and other places) WE WILL STAY WEAK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 11, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 quote:Originally posted by MJ:Why are Armenians xenophobic?Xenophobia is a double edged sword. It cuts in both directions. It excludes us from participating in the blessings the world has to offer and we exclude others in enjoying the blessings we have to offer. No, genocide is not a good subject to preach others about. They have their own pains and aches. We may show them some of the joys of being Armenian. There may few but there are. I showed my friend my tape from Yerevan, it contained among others segments from the Opera Arshak II. She was flabbergasted. First she thought it was by Verdi. She is of Italian heritage and knows opera. She was relieved to know that Tigran Chukhajian was a contemporary of Verdi and a friend of his. "That explains it" she said. BTW, She had known other Armenians who talked about nothing but the genocide. She was surprised to know that not all Armenians are paralytic idiots who know nothing but the genocide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 My entire confusion around this whole topic is about this "weak" adjective. I can't understand how someone can blieve otherwise (i.e. Armenians not weak). I think it's a given fact that as a group, Armenians are WEAK. Just by sheer numbers, just by our foundation, just by the way everything has happened so far ... we are WEAK. Anyone who says otherwise, better be prepared to back it up ... of course without saying some ultra nice sounding slogan like "... we are Armenians therefore the most superior entities in the Universe ..." Yes, personality/individual each can be very strong. Maybe on average, Armenians are very stong. But as a group, we are simply VERY outnumbered, vulnerable, and weak. So now, I think the main question is, GIVEN THAT WE ARE WEAK, Chicken and egg problem solved! At least for me, in this case, in my rather simplistic ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigrannesIII Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 quote:.[/qb]Shove it up your ... We were Armenians loooooong before the world had heard of Kristos.Religion, belief in Kristos is exclusivley personal and ir shall remain so.[/QB] foolish.... the church is the custodian of our culture and has defined our character for a long time. Yes, we were Armenians before Hisous, but now we couldn't be Armenians without Him. It is not exclusive, it is integral to our national identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 11, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Sip:My entire confusion around this whole topic is about this "weak" adjective. I can't understand how someone can blieve otherwise (i.e. Armenians not weak). I think it's a given fact that as a group, Armenians are WEAK. Just by sheer numbers, just by our foundation, just by the way everything has happened so far ... we are WEAK. Anyone who says otherwise, better be prepared to back it up ... of course without saying some ultra nice sounding slogan like "... we are Armenians therefore the most superior entities in the Universe ..." Yes, personality/individual each can be very strong. Maybe on average, Armenians are very stong. But as a group, we are simply VERY outnumbered, vulnerable, and weak. So now, I think the main question is, GIVEN THAT WE ARE WEAK, Chicken and egg problem solved! At least for me, in this case, in my rather simplistic ways.Well said Seap!You and I can sing a duet of Arpa Sipan song:) :)Oops ! I mean Arpa Sevan:) Confession is the first step towards salvation.People will mental disease are the prime example of this phenomenon, as long as they deny their condition and refuse to take their medicine.they cannet get well Until we confess to our weakness and start doing something about it we will remain so. Our medicine is bitter and stinky . We may have to hold our noses, but we must take it even if hurts. Bombast is a good recreation. We may do it over a bajak of oghi while we sing Azg Parabants, Hayastan Erkir Drakhtavayr etc. but as it has been said; "You can fool some of the pwople all the time, all of the people someof the time ...." Who are we fooling? We are sitting on a piece of barren rock ( and please don't correct me, I have been to Yerevan Province and I know what I am saying)that is so sahky that it can topple anyday while our neighbors are sitting on the worlds most luxurious piece of real estate that belonged to us one time. They are growing exponentially both in numbers, force and economy...Who are we fooling.I will say it one more time.Tigranes, shove it up.... Hisus? Take him home with you whereever that may be. Is Telaviv a good place? I may some day write what I know about the Bible and Hisus. You may be surprised. I know quite a bit. I can quote you chapter and verse, i.e. I have known it since before most of you were born. At the present I only read it for amusement as to how people can belive all that myhological garbage that was plagiarized and stolen from others, including ours. Yes! Noah is Armenian, they stole it from us. I have written about it in length. I can rebroadcast it if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Arpa: quote:Originally posted by MJ:Why are Armenians xenophobic?Xenophobia is a double edged sword. It cuts in both directions. It excludes us from participating in the blessings the world has to offer and we exclude others in enjoying the blessings we have to offer. No, genocide is not a good subject to preach others about. They have their own pains and aches. We may show them some of the joys of being Armenian. There may few but there are. I showed my friend my tape from Yerevan, it contained among others segments from the Opera Arshak II. She was flabbergasted. First she thought it was by Verdi. She is of Italian heritage and knows opera. She was relieved to know that Tigran Chukhajian was a contemporary of Verdi and a friend of his. "That explains it" she said. BTW, She had known other Armenians who talked about nothing but the genocide. She was surprised to know that not all Armenians are paralytic idiots who know nothing but the genocide.Dear Arpa, I am sure you understand that my question was of rhetoric character and I share most of the views expressed by you in and out of this thread, including the one about the Christianity having nothing to do with our identity. I have the previlage of knowing a lot of admirable Armenians who see themselves as pagans, atheists or agnostics, or Hindus, and I would prefer most everyone of them to any foaming in the mouth Christian who knows nothing about Christianity, in fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fadi Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 MJ, what about the non-admirable Armenians like me who see themselves as pagans, atheists or agnostics, or Hindus, do you still prefer them to any foaming in the mouth Christian who knows nothing about Christianity? [ December 11, 2002, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: Domino ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Domino:MJ, what about the non-admirable Armenians like me who see themselves as pagans, atheists or agnostics, or Hindus, do you still prefer them to any foaming in the mouth Christian who knows nothing about Christianity? I could allocate an hour a week to you to make an admirable one out of you. But you have to make few promises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 11, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 quote:Originally posted by MJ: quote:Originally posted by Arpa: quote:Originally posted by MJ:Why are Armenians xenophobic?Xenophobia is a doublen. There may few but there are. I showed my friend was relieved to knDear Arpa, I am sure you understand that my question was of rhetoric character and I share most of the views expressed by you in and out of this thread, including the one about the Christianity having nothing to do with our identity. I have the previlage of knowing a lot of admirable Armenians who see themselves as pagans, atheists or agnostics, or Hindus, and I would prefer most everyone of them to any foaming in the mouth Christian who knows nothing about Christianity, in fact.Dear MJ,I knew your question was rhetorica, I know too well, Surprise? And I am sure you know me well enough and my ability to read between the lines. But I could not resist, it gave me the impetus to expand on the subject.As to your pagan friends. I have been called that numerous times. I deem it an honor. I don't think I am an atheist, I just don't give it much thought. I have my own concept of God, it may be much diffrent from others' but I'll tell you, it is not that ridiculous caricature pictured in the BOOK.You may address me as Dear Cynic or Sireli Agnostic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 quote:Originally posted by MJ:...including the one about the Christianity having nothing to do with our identity...So is there something in-between the lines there or maybe have I missed a previous discussion on this (which I'm sure I have)? I am not in the same boat as TigranessIII in thinking Jesus is lord and savior but hasn't christianity and the church been central in forming the Armenian identity in at least the last 1600 years? (the very recent centuries maybe being exceptions) ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Arpa:Dear MJ,I knew your question was rhetorica, I know too well, Surprise? No surprises. quote:Originally posted by Arpa:And I am sure you know me well enough and my ability to read between the lines. But I could not resist, it gave me the impetus to expand on the subject.Frequently, I find myself in that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen_Vahan Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 "Dear SV, I truly don't understand what you are saying. What territories are you talking about? " Those that Arpa calls being ours before:"We are sitting on a piece of barren rock ( and please don't correct me, I have been to Yerevan Province and I know what I am saying)that is so sahky that it can topple anyday while our neighbors are sitting on the worlds most luxurious piece of real estate that belonged to us one time. They are growing exponentially both in numbers, force and economy..." "And if something is unreal, how can it be an alternative?" It is an always-true historical alternative but unreal in my opinion, unreal for us to achieve nowdays. Clear? Just in my opinion. "And where I live now, I think there are huge numbers of alternatives. I am even ready to share some of them with you. Interested? " No , thanks, help yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fadi Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 quote:Originally posted by MJ: quote:Originally posted by Domino:MJ, what about the non-admirable Armenians like me who see themselves as pagans, atheists or agnostics, or Hindus, do you still prefer them to any foaming in the mouth Christian who knows nothing about Christianity? I could allocate an hour a week to you to make an admirable one out of you. But you have to make few promises. I'll make every promises beside me getting out of this forum. So what are those promises? :-) [ December 11, 2002, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Domino ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen_Vahan Posted December 11, 2002 Report Share Posted December 11, 2002 "Nice answer Vahan.You gave the right answer but you did not give the reason.Why are weak?Is it we are weak because we are xenophobic or are we xenophobic because we are weak? Is it the chicken or the egg? Which came first?Until and unless we get off of our mets voriks and do something about it, until we stop resting on our laurels (we don't have many), until we stop believing what our semi educated and uneducated gurus have to say about our culture, history and destiny, until we take our destiny in our own hands and stop relying on the others including but not limited to Yehova and Hisus (they seem to have better things to do in TelAviv and other places) WE WILL STAY WEAK. " Hargeli Arpa, I really agree with you but what one can say today is that Armenians are weak. What is the reason anyway? It's hard for me to say what but I think because we were devided and then devided again and then subdevided by great masters such as Turks, Persians or Byzantians. Yes, we appeared to be not strong and smart enough to resist or act like them. The problem is that a nation left without a wise leadership for centuries can only count on preserving but not blossoming. We are so strongly subdevided that each armenian "becomes" a philosopher and a "politician" and Napoleon at last. Yes, more often a concrete armenian is very strong and smart and rich but the coherence is lost btw our people, it was lost who knows in which century. We are acting like separate bodies with no agreement btw each other. (You are educated in western tradition and I am in eastern, some in middle eastern, etc.) We don't have any symbol or idea or philosophy/religion gathering us together,how can we talk about blossoming then?Recently I was reading V.Rosanov's "Voyna 1914 goda i Russkoe Vozrogdenie"(the war of 1914 and russian reneissance) where I found a very clever phrase like: "there are nations which can live as a state (gosudarstvenno),it's a special gift of God, but there are also others that can never do that. But once peaceful conditions are created for them they will create a wonderful culture and will shine by all means"(sorry, the translation does not give exactly what was said but anyway...) It seems to me that this is true for armenians. Vahan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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